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AestorTheKnight
09-23-2011, 11:51 PM
Elven Alacrity 1. Cost 1 Action Point. Available to Elf level 1.

Elven Alacrity 1. Activate this ability to recieve a +15% Haste Boost to attack speed or a +35% Sprint Boost to movement speed for 20 seconds.

- Elven Alacrity - Haste 1. Activate this ability to recieve a +15% Haste Boost to attack speed for 20 seconds.

- Elven Alacrity - Sprint 1. Activate this ability to recieve a +35% Sprint Boost to movement speed for 20 seconds.

Then with the same progression as Human Versatility, at a cost of 2 AP, 3 AP and 4 AP, for Tiers 2, 3, and 4 at the same levels 4, 7, and 10.

The Haste Boost bonus progression at tier 2, 3, and 4 being the same as Fighter Haste Boost.

The Sprint Boost bonus progression at teir 2, 3, and 4 being the same as Ranger Sprint Boost.

So a Racial Boost enhancment line for Elves, similar to Human Versatility except offering Haste and Sprint Boosts only.

Half Elves should not get it in my oppinion.

This would be the perfect way to balance Elves vs the other races. :)

Comments welcome. :)

Musouka
09-23-2011, 11:53 PM
Ever since the damage boost was changed, and the fact that humans and half-elves get it, it seems like everyone thinks their character's race is sub-par now. We just had this suggestion for halflings... now for elves...

I say no.

smeggy1384
09-23-2011, 11:59 PM
Interesting idea.. Could easily be overpowered i think, but then about anything can if implemented wrong. I could see my elven ranger arcane archer pop this and multishot, may just put my shiny new arti to shame. Would be pretty nice to have a reason to knock the dust off my poor ranger, been stuck at 11 for ages now. Almost takes something away from the class (or is it classes?) that already has the haste boost though. Perhaps make this give you a to hit penalty while its active. Seems if you're rapidly flailing about you should be missing more or something.

AestorTheKnight
09-24-2011, 12:01 AM
This suggestion was brought up long before that post for Halflings.

Such as in this thread: Elves Need Some Love http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=339565

I am just formalising it here.

It doesnt make sense for Halflings.

It makes sense for Elves. :)

AestorTheKnight
09-24-2011, 12:49 AM
Interesting idea.. Could easily be overpowered i think, but then about anything can if implemented wrong. I could see my elven ranger arcane archer pop this and multishot, may just put my shiny new arti to shame. Would be pretty nice to have a reason to knock the dust off my poor ranger, been stuck at 11 for ages now. Almost takes something away from the class (or is it classes?) that already has the haste boost though. Perhaps make this give you a to hit penalty while its active. Seems if you're rapidly flailing about you should be missing more or something.

Its like this - If you make a Human Fighter today, he/she can get Fighter Haste Boost and Human Damage Boost.
Thats not over powered is it?

Say you make an Elven Barbarian - you could get Barbarian Damage Boost and Elf Haste Boost. So thats overpowered? I dont think so :)

Ive made an Elven Arcane Archer / Fighter Kensai - 18 Fighter / 2 Bard. She had Manyshot with full BAB and Fighter Haste Boost 4. She was not even remotely overpowered at all, much much lower DPS than a Elf Fighter with a Falchion.

Does Humans having +5 Damage Boost (same as Barbs) or +5 Saves (Same as Paladins) or +5 to hit (Same as Fighters) take somerhing away from Barbs, Paladins, and Fighters. No of course it doesnt :)

Humans dont get -2 AC when they get +5 Damage, so why should Elves get -2 to hit if they got +30% Haste Boost.

The reason for my suggestion is because at present Elves are underpowered. This Enhancment line would bring them closer to an equal level with the other Races who excel in melee combat. And yet it would help Elves excel in a unique way that suits Elves and is complementary to their Racial characteristics.

AestorTheKnight
09-24-2011, 12:55 AM
Also I am all for each race having its own line of Action Boosts.

For example:

Dwarven Stoutness: +15% HP for 20 seconds. +10 +25 +30% etc.

Warforge Fortitude: DR 6 for 20 seconds. etc etc

Horcish Attack: +2 to Hit or Damage for 20 seconds etc etc

Drow Presence: +2 to Int or Cha for 20 Seconds.

Kinerd
09-25-2011, 04:39 PM
Elves would still be behind humans for melees if this was implemented, I don't understand how anyone can disagree with it. Make it so!

AestorTheKnight
09-25-2011, 09:56 PM
Elves would still be behind humans for melees if this was implemented, I don't understand how anyone can disagree with it. Make it so!

Agreed :)

licho
09-26-2011, 07:00 AM
Why i see the point that Elves/Drows are behind in comparison to whatever else. Then still
Racial haste boost would be kinda overpowered.

But, speed increase not at all.

So disagree for haste boost.
But support the speed increase as either speed boost or some general movement speed increase (static).

It would be also cool if the racial weapons got a boost, so elf + scimies = Horc + khopesh

AestorTheKnight
09-26-2011, 08:30 AM
...Racial haste boost would be kinda overpowered.

Are Fighters with Haste Boost 4 overpowered? Are Rogues with Haste Boost 4 overpowered? I dont think they are.

Are Human Fighters with Haste Boost AND Damage Boost (Damage Boost being a Boost normally restricted to Barbs and Rogues.) overpowered? I dont think they are.

Would an Elven Barbarian with Haste Boost AND Damage Boost have higher DPS than a HOrc Barbarian? I very much doubt it.

So why would it be overpowered? Can you explain why you think it would be overpowered in more detail, please? :)

At present Elves are pretty much the worst choice for a Melee Class. Okay okay, they make fairly good Tempest Rangers, but thats about it when it comes to melee.

And Elves have this really serious disadvantage called -2 Con, which makes them a really bad choice for a Melee.

So what im saying is, instead of making Elves pretty much the all round gimp race for melee builds, give them something that would make them shine. To bring them closer to being equal to the other races in melee combat.

Would an Elven Tempest Ranger with Elven Haste Boost 4 be powerful? Sure it would be a slight power increase.
But not a significantly large increase over a Tempest Ranger who splashed 2 Levels of Fighter or Rogue to get the Tier 1 Haste Boost.

Would Elven Alacrity make Elves the most mega powered melee class, far surpassing Horcs, Dwarves and WF? Dont be ridiculous!

Would Elven Alacrity balance Elves against the other races in Melee. I think it would. And whats more it would really suit them as a Race, and would be really cool! :)

Requiro
09-26-2011, 08:53 AM
20 HP trade for +30% Burst DPS?

You call this balance?

I agree that this is very overpowered suggestion, thus /not signed

There are other more realistic ways (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4060142&postcount=23) to improve Elf Race (and other f2p race).

Musouka
09-26-2011, 10:09 AM
It has already been shown that a TWF with haste boost does more overall damage than a TWF with damage boost. So you would actually be pushing them above the others with this. So being able to do it for a long period of time with a class that gets haste boost also would grant this ability overpowered.

It's not like elves don't already get something. Aside from melee boosts, they get caster enhancements. Does a half-orc get caster enhancements, or a Human, half-elf... etc?

I also agree more with Requiro's link.

AestorTheKnight
09-26-2011, 10:57 AM
Although I admit that Elven Alacrity would be fairly powerful, I do not agree that it would be overpowered.

Horcs have a potential +6 Damage per attack to every attack. Over extended periods this total of +6 damage outweighs any bonus that between 5 and 12 Clicks of 30% haste would give.

Or at least I think it would... I admit I have not done the math. :)

It is for this reason I do not think the Haste Boost would be overpowered, in the sense that it would not surpass Horcs.

However my primary reasons for suggesting Elven Alacrity are;

One, I really think it suits the concepts of Elves. If you look at Elves in fiction they are known for their great speed and agility in combat - take Legolas in Lord of the Rings as an obvious example.

And two, Elves at present are really terribly gimped for everything except Wizards or Rangers. Elven Alacrity would allow Elves to compete in DPS as Fighters, Paladins, or Barbarians. It would not be game breaking, it would just add variety.

While Requiros suggestions for changes to Elf Enhancments are fine and interesting, I do not think they actually provide any significant increase in balance to Elves.

Musouka
09-26-2011, 11:03 AM
And two, Elves at present are really terribly gimped for everything except Wizards or Rangers. Elven Alacrity would allow Elves to compete in DPS as Fighters, Paladins, or Barbarians. It would not be game breaking, it would just add variety.


Ok, then I will pose this. What would you do for Half-orcs to add variety? Would you give them anything to boost their casting power?

AestorTheKnight
09-26-2011, 11:29 AM
Would you give them anything to boost their casting power?

Sure! :) Ive heard that according to Eberon Lore they are strongly associated with the Druid Class. Perhaps HOrcs could get enhancments to Ranger Abilities?

And we all know the Dreaded Orcish Casters in Where Theres Smoke and Cabal for One - perhaps HOrc's could get a small damage increase to Elemental or Nullification Spells?

But yes I would like to see HOrcs being developed as more than just mean lean fighting machines. :)

Kinerd
09-27-2011, 05:57 PM
20 HP trade for +30% Burst DPS?

You call this balance?

I agree that this is very overpowered suggestion, thus /not signed

There are other more realistic ways (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4060142&postcount=23) to improve Elf Race (and other f2p race).If we compare to humans, you lose not only (at least) 20 HP but 30% healing amp, 25% damage boost, skill point, and feat. If we compare to horcs, you lose not only 20 HP but 4 Strength and 3 Power Attack and potentially 2 Power Rage and 4 THF damage and threat enhancements. Elf is a terribly underpowered race for melees right now, this really can't be rationally argued.

Giving them Haste Boost is no increase for Fighters and Rogues, so we're not even talking about giving them a universal boost. Again, even with the proposed Haste Boost they would be underpowered in u11's environment.

Aesop
09-27-2011, 06:11 PM
I'm just not a fan of boosts over all.


I've made my suggestions in a dozen+ threads

Elf Ideas


Aerenal Weapon Mastery

1. lvl 4. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

2. lvl 8. 2AP. +1 To Hit with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

3. lvl 12. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

4. lvl 16. 2AP. +1 To Hit with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

5. lvl 20. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

total +2 To Hit +3 Damage with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers


Valenar Weapon Mastery


1. lvl 4. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows and Scimitars and +2 Damage with Falchions

2. lvl 8. 2AP. +1 To Hit with Bows, Scimitars and Falchions

3. lvl 12. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows and Scimitars and +2 Damage with Falchions

4. lvl 16. 2AP. +1 To Hit with Bows, Scimitars and Falchions

5. lvl 20. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows and Scimitars and +2 Damage with Falchions

total +2 To Hit +3 Damage with Bows and Scimitars and +6 Damage with Falchions


Valenar Dervish
Requires Weapon Finesse Feat and Valenar Weapon Mastery 1

1. lvl 6. 4AP. Scimitar counts as a Finesse Weapon


Aerenal Ascetic
Requires Whirling Steel Strike and Aerenal Weapon Mastery 1

1. lvl 4. 2AP. +1 Ki per Critical with Longswords while Centered

2. lvl 8. 2AP. +1 Damage with Longswords while Centered

3. lvl 12. 2AP. +1 Ki per Critical with Longswords while Centered

4. lvl 16. 2AP. +1 Damage with Longswords while Centered

5. lvl 20. 2AP. +1 Ki per Critical with Longswords while Centered


Elven Finesse

1. lvl 8. AP 2. Prerequisite: Weapon Finesse Feat, Elven Dexterity 1. Benefit: +2% Double Strike Chance.

2. lvl 16. AP 4. Prerequisite: Elven Finesse 1, Elven Dexterity 2. Benefit: +2% Double Strike Chance. (total +4%)


Valenar Great Weapon Mastery
note: this only applies to the Falchion
Requires: Valenar Weapon Mastery 1

1. lvl 1. 2AP. Weapon effects activate 2.5% more often

2. lvl 4. 2AP. Glancing Blows do 5% More damage

3. lvl 7. 2AP. Weapon effects activate 2.5% more often

4. lvl 10. 2AP. Glancing Blows do 5% More damage

5. lvl 13. 2AP. Weapon effects activate 2.5% more often

6. lvl 16. 2AP. Glancing Blows do 5% More damage

7. lvl 19. 2AP. Weapon effects activate 2.5% more often

total of 15% more Glancing Blow Damage and 10% more often that Weapon Effects activate.


Elven Deadeye

1. lvl 6. 2AP. Improve Point Blank Shot range by 5m and +1 stacking Seeker with Bows

2. lvl 12. 2AP. Improve Point Blank Shot range by 5m and +1 stacking Seeker with Bows

3. lvl 18. 2AP. Improve Point Blank Shot range by 5m and +1 stacking Seeker with Bows

total +15m to Point Blank Shot range and +3 stacking Seeker Bonus


Elven Arcanum

1. Wizard 1. 1AP. +20SP

2. Wizard 4. 1AP. +1 Spell Penetration

3. Wizard 7. 1AP. +20SP

4. Wizard 10. +1 Arcane Spell DC

5. Wizard 13. 1AP. +20SP

6. Wizard 16. 1AP. +1 Spell Penetration

7. Wizard 19. 1AP. +20SP

total +80SP, +2 Spell Penetration, +1 Arcane Spell DC


Elven Arcane Grace

1. lvl 5. 1AP. -5% Arcane Spell Failure

2. lvl 10. 1AP. -5% Arcane Spell Failure

3. lvl 15. 1AP. -5% Arcane Spell Failure

4. lvl 20. 1AP. -5% Arcane Spell Failure



Aesop

AestorTheKnight
09-27-2011, 07:54 PM
Aesop. While your suggestions are fine, all they really do is consolidate the already existing Enhancments into single lines, there by decreasing the total AP costs for these abilities. Which is all well and good... but... Imo does not significantly effect the combat power of Elves.

Your suggestions for Valenar Dervish and Aerenal Ascetic are great! :)

Haste Boost and Sprint boost would be a significant increase to the power and versatility of Elves that would bring them closer to the power of the other races. But really i just think it would suit Elves. Once again thats my main reason for suggesting it, I think it fits.

Aesop
09-27-2011, 08:51 PM
Aesop. While your suggestions are fine, all they really do is consolidate the already existing Enhancments into single lines, there by decreasing the total AP costs for these abilities. Which is all well and good... but... Imo does not significantly effect the combat power of Elves.

Your suggestions for Valenar Dervish and Aerenal Ascetic are great! :)

Haste Boost and Sprint boost would be a significant increase to the power and versatility of Elves that would bring them closer to the power of the other races. But really i just think it would suit Elves. Once again thats my main reason for suggesting it, I think it fits.

actually I expanded the lines out as well. Each line gains an additional damage (falchion gains 4 total to match Horc THF and added the THF line for Falchion)

Additionally I changed the Arcanum to include a DC increase which would bring Elf DCs up to the higher end of the possible (tied with Drow I think... maybe human too) as well as the Spell Pen and SP increase.

additionally for the Dex based Finesse character I added in the increased Double strike chance. That would be a static increase and not a Boost. personally I am not a fan of Boosts... or at least I'm not a fan of the way they currently work. Yeah they give great burst dps... but it never feels like its enough.

Aesop

AestorTheKnight
09-28-2011, 01:13 AM
actually I expanded the lines out as well. Each line gains an additional damage (falchion gains 4 total to match Horc THF and added the THF line for Falchion)

Additionally I changed the Arcanum to include a DC increase which would bring Elf DCs up to the higher end of the possible (tied with Drow I think... maybe human too) as well as the Spell Pen and SP increase.

additionally for the Dex based Finesse character I added in the increased Double strike chance. That would be a static increase and not a Boost. personally I am not a fan of Boosts... or at least I'm not a fan of the way they currently work. Yeah they give great burst dps... but it never feels like its enough.

Aesop

Aye they are good suggestions too i think! :)