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DrakeD77a
09-21-2011, 10:40 AM
Here is a idea for a update. Bring in the Hexblade from D&D 3.5 in. The Hexblade is a close combat fighter with limited spellcasting ability, mostly using it to debuff or lower stats of his enemies. This ability is through "curses" or "hexes" and at higher levels gets a aura of unluck which gives enemies miss chances against him because they caught bad luck. Luck is a central theme in their backgroud. Supposely they are such unlucky people they had t learn how to make that bad luck affect their enemies instead of them. They lose the fighter feats for this limited ability but i think its a cool idea.


I would think this would wed nicely into current ddo animation abilities since it is not asking for much more in the way of animation besides normal casting rites or something, because most of the affects are invisable just affecting the luck of the enemy. balancing those hard fights.

licho
09-21-2011, 10:44 AM
Here is a idea for a update. Bring in the Hexblade from D&D 3.5 in. The Hexblade is a close combat fighter with limited spellcasting ability, mostly using it to debuff or lower stats of his enemies. This ability is through "curses" or "hexes" and at higher levels gets a aura of unluck which gives enemies miss chances against him because they caught bad luck. Luck is a central theme in their backgroud. Supposely they are such unlucky people they had t learn how to make that bad luck affect their enemies instead of them. They lose the fighter feats for this limited ability but i think its a cool idea.

/Signed

Even more than druid* i would like to see some gish class, combining limited casting with melee.
Bards are cool, but i wish something more selfinsh than buff all around.
Artificers are cool but they are rather ranged by default.

Im seeing place for either Hexblade or Duskblade or Warblade (seeing ToB stances would be cool) or Psionics.

* The reason why i prefer another melee than Duid is since D is another caster with single class feature more powerful than whole other class, and i suppose Turbine will make any new class pay for, so to sell it they need to balance casting and nocasters.

Talias006
09-21-2011, 10:49 AM
I like this idea, but will only /sign to it if they come after or alongside Druids.

I would also like to see Psionics, both the system and Psionicist/Psychic Warrior.

(I loved Dark Sun because of the Psionics found there.)

DrakeD77a
09-21-2011, 10:49 AM
Also another balanced idea for a melee specialty is the Marshal. The marshal is a military commander whose abilities are focused on leading others into battle and inspiring them to victory. They project auras that grant a variety of bonuses to nearby allies based on the marshal's Charisma. A Charisma based fighter that is more of a support fighter than the hard charger.

Phidius
09-21-2011, 10:50 AM
Let's wait and see what they do to Tenser's first - if fixing a single spell to make it attractive to melee casters is this hard, though, I seriously doubt they'd devote an entire class to it.

Your best bet is to use the existing classes/races to try to reproduce the flavor of a Hexblade, and just ignore the min/maxers who label you "Gimp".

DrakeD77a
09-21-2011, 10:55 AM
I can understand that for tensers but Hexblade is a completely different flavor than a caster who can melee, its a Melee who has a couple of aces and doesnt play fair. a Hexblade is closer to a rogue than it is to any true caster.

Seager52
09-21-2011, 10:55 AM
I want Warmage, so I can have all good damaging spells (Firewall, Blade Barrier, Comet Fall, Fireball, Implosion, etc) basically all evocation spells. And on top of that you get some weapon profincies and spell points like a sorc and you would end up with i think about 6 spells per spell lvl, if i remember the list correctly. And include the thing were you can pick one spell every two lvls.....so reconstruct? WF?

That wont be overpowered right?.....guys?.....come on.....it will be fine........trust me....

/end sarcasm

DrakeD77a
09-21-2011, 10:58 AM
How would Hexblade be over powered? Hexblades have a few drawbacks like that they are secondary string fighters who have limited improvement of fighter skills and they definitely cant cast all that much. The balancing point is the enemy gets in bad shape when cursed. I believe its on par with what we have now anyways. Any other ideas about it?

Jay203
09-21-2011, 11:17 AM
sorry, i'd rather they finish up all the PrEs first

RenigadeWolf
09-21-2011, 11:25 AM
Personally, I enjoy the idea of a Hexblade, BUT, make it a specific debuffing class. most MMOs have one (normally the 'Rogue' type) but in DDO we do not. imagine with a Hexblade -1 to all saves on a crit, or Shatter-mantle on any weapon, perhaps even Fort lowering abilities (or make the 3 PrEs Melee-focused debuffs (fort ect) Caster-focused debuffs (saves, SR, ect) and Healing-focused debuffs (miss chance, less damage done by target, ect)) and give them that role. I feel it would fit well. (make their abilities useful enough that they are worth giving up a DPS slot many times.)
but yes, current workings are certainly more of a concern.

Angelus_dead
09-21-2011, 02:18 PM
I would think this would wed nicely into current ddo animation abilities since it is not asking for much more in the way of animation besides normal casting rites or something
Hexblade would be a technically simple thing to add, but by the same token it would hardly improve the game to have it there.

They'd have to do a lot of work on extras to bring Hexblade up to par, and that would take time away from important projects like Warchanter, Spellsinger, Virtuoso, Radiant Servant, Warpriest, Exorcist, Divine Avenger, Angel of Vengeance, Purple Dragon Knight, Ravager, Slayer, Knight of the Chalice, Hunter of the Dead, Battle Engineer, TBD ARTI SPEC2, TBD ARTI SPEC3, Acolyte of the Skin, Mechanic, Acrobat, Deedwood Sniper, and Henshin Mystic.

Did I miss any? Yes I absolutely did, but you get the point: the devs have no time to mess around with new classes when the existing ones aren't done yet.

DrakeD77a
09-21-2011, 07:54 PM
I can get that they need to work on what they have, and doing this would take time any which fashion just to arrange enhancements and prestiges. But i dont accept that all those other class prestiges needing means that they cant have new ideas for classes brought up, cause isnt Artificer a new class itself.

BlackSteel
09-21-2011, 07:57 PM
Did I miss any? Yes I absolutely did, but you get the point: the devs have no time to mess around with new classes when the existing ones aren't done yet.

+1

I'm irritated that we got another new class with yet another unfinished PrE. Having a blast so far with the arti, but it really does drive me nuts that we only got battle engineer 1

Symar-FangofLloth
09-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Personally, I enjoy the idea of a Hexblade, BUT, make it a specific debuffing class. most MMOs have one (normally the 'Rogue' type) but in DDO we do not. imagine with a Hexblade -1 to all saves on a crit, or Shatter-mantle on any weapon, perhaps even Fort lowering abilities (or make the 3 PrEs Melee-focused debuffs (fort ect) Caster-focused debuffs (saves, SR, ect) and Healing-focused debuffs (miss chance, less damage done by target, ect)) and give them that role. I feel it would fit well. (make their abilities useful enough that they are worth giving up a DPS slot many times.)
but yes, current workings are certainly more of a concern.

Debuffs exist, but are rarely used because:
Trash dies so fast its almost not worth it
Bosses tend to be immune to nearly everything other than raw damage.

So making a class, or PrE, based on debuffs would require them to work on bosses for anyone to bother.

DrakeD77a
09-21-2011, 08:40 PM
True, i was thinking on that and it could still work since very few things in paper pen version is immune to luck stuff, though some can get saves on some of its stuff. And it would give the class a firm place in any raid party or party just to be able to debuff a boss.

Angelus_dead
09-21-2011, 08:46 PM
So making a class, or PrE, based on debuffs would require them to work on bosses for anyone to bother.
The developers could certainly figure out a way for the class to apply the debuffs super-fast, such as an automatic aura around you, or from every melee attack you make.

But then they'd reach another problem: Debuffs which are applied very easily have about the same result as if you had simply buffed the party members for the same amount. So that would mean having a Hexblade with you is sort of like having a Bard: it makes everyone else seem stronger than normal. And that's trouble. Adding another class with another category of stacking buffs means that the combined buffs are so strong that they push monster interactions completely off the die.

Either the monsters are too strong for groups with no buff-class members, or they're too weak for groups with 2-3 characters from different buff classes.

DrakeD77a
09-21-2011, 08:49 PM
Thats sounds like a cope out, that problem has always been about when you dont balance your party. My wiz and pally two man party make it. It just adds another dimension to me.

Grenada
09-21-2011, 08:49 PM
More classes is always better. (as long as they come loaded with lots of finished PrEs for the other classes too in the same update)
:D

Aashrym
09-21-2011, 09:02 PM
More classes is always better.

Tell that to anyone who want to have the completionist feat when at some point there is no additional functionality in adding another class beyond flavor. At some point we need to ask ourselves how many classes we really need to have. ;)

Deanarth
09-21-2011, 09:15 PM
Im seeing place for either Hexblade or Duskblade or Warblade (seeing ToB stances would be cool) or Psionics.


No Warblades. Ever.

Terminus-Est
09-21-2011, 09:21 PM
Debuffs exist, but are rarely used because:
Trash dies so fast its almost not worth it
Bosses tend to be immune to nearly everything other than raw damage.

So making a class, or PrE, based on debuffs would require them to work on bosses for anyone to bother.

This.

I don't want a dedicated debuffing class, my sorcerer, fvs (and wizard and cleric, once I level them up) already have access to enough debuffs to spec here... If they did any damn thing!

Calebro
09-21-2011, 10:51 PM
Im seeing place for either Hexblade or Duskblade or Warblade (seeing ToB stances would be cool) or Psionics.

Hexblade? Nope. Hexbalde is lame.
Duskblade? Meh. I never cared for them. They aren't lame, they just weren't for me.

Psionics and ToB classes? Yes please.
I was really hoping that Psions were the next class, but it was Artificer instead. Anything from the ToB would be awesome, but I'm partial to Swordsage myself.

DrakeD77a
09-22-2011, 08:31 AM
Lame? How is Hexblade lame?


And for completionist guy you have a point, but for me its all about the flavor and fun in playing with the variety. I am old with paper pen version and ddo is closest i get to having real experience with variety.

Calebro
09-22-2011, 12:17 PM
Lame? How is Hexblade lame?

Hexblade is lame because it doesn't offer anything substantial that doesn't already exist. It's a full BAB warrior with three spells of each spell level up to 4th. The only thing that would be cool would be Mettle (which is evasion for Fort and Will saves, for those that don't know).

Every single other thing that Hexblade has would be extremely weak in this game.
** Bonus feats? They are reserved for SF:x & Greater, Spell Pen and Greater, and Combat Casting, none of which will be useful to 4th level spells because your saves will be too low for DDO to begin with.
** Familiar? Not if Wizards and Sorcs don't get them, no.
** Curse? It's a debuff. The only mobs worth debuffing in this game are bosses, and a Hexblade's minor debuffs will hardly even affect them.

They don't offer anything that isn't already here, so yes, they're lame.

Rakian_Knight
09-22-2011, 02:55 PM
Hexblade is lame because it doesn't offer anything substantial that doesn't already exist. It's a full BAB warrior with three spells of each spell level up to 4th. The only thing that would be cool would be Mettle (which is evasion for Fort and Will saves, for those that don't know).

Every single other thing that Hexblade has would be extremely weak in this game.
** Bonus feats? They are reserved for SF:x & Greater, Spell Pen and Greater, and Combat Casting, none of which will be useful to 4th level spells because your saves will be too low for DDO to begin with.
** Familiar? Not if Wizards and Sorcs don't get them, no.
** Curse? It's a debuff. The only mobs worth debuffing in this game are bosses, and a Hexblade's minor debuffs will hardly even affect them.

They don't offer anything that isn't already here, so yes, they're lame.

Wow, that sounds almost like the argument against artificers before they came out. I'm not a power player so it might simply be that differentiation of viewpoints but I've always thought Hexblade was a fun class to play with because by the class description they aren't the standard hero-type.

As for the OP, it would be a fun class but I'd personally would like to see druids and psionics first.

Entelech
09-22-2011, 03:07 PM
Realize that a Hexblade would get significantly re-interpreted for DDO, much like the Artificer did.

It's a nice idea, I always liked the Hexblade class, and you need to do some serious multiclassing to approach the flavor of it as things stand.

Several of the Hexblade abilities worked like the Aura of Menace from the FvS Prc: anyone standing close to the Hexblade got auto-debuffed. Also, Hexblades in PnP could be flavored as Rogue-like, as versatile melee DPS, or as tanks depending on the specific setup.

All that said, I'd really rather they focus on cleaning their plate before going back to the buffet. We still have Druid to go, as well as PrE's. Let's get those first.

Calebro
09-22-2011, 03:14 PM
Wow, that sounds almost like the argument against artificers before they came out. I'm not a power player so it might simply be that differentiation of viewpoints but I've always thought Hexblade was a fun class to play with because by the class description they aren't the standard hero-type.

As for the OP, it would be a fun class but I'd personally would like to see druids and psionics first.

Well, Artificers do bring something new to the game. Infusions that never existed on other spell lists. To be honest, I didn't want Artificers as the next class though, because besides the few new infusions they offer little else that's new, and the things that are new didn't exist in the PnP version of Artys so we had no reason to expect things like Runearms and level scaling Homunculus. Artificers were added because they're world specific to Eberron. It made sense for them to be here. It wasn't Eberron without them. But in and of themselves, they would have been extremely weak in DDO, which is why they got extra goodies.
Hexblades have no such connection to the lore, and they would also be weak in DDO, meaning that they'd need extra goodies. But spending time beefing up a weak class that has no relevance to Eberron would be a huge waste of Dev time when any full BAB class with a few levels of Sorcerer would accomplish the flavor intended, while also getting a better spell list.

So like I said, Hexblades are lame. They're all flavor. If you want flavor, you can build a character to almost mirror a Hexblade with existing game mechanics.
If we're going to see new classes they should be NEW classes. IMO Artificer only got a pass on that rule because of the lore.

jkm
09-22-2011, 03:22 PM
Hexblade would be a technically simple thing to add, but by the same token it would hardly improve the game to have it there.

They'd have to do a lot of work on extras to bring Hexblade up to par, and that would take time away from important projects like Warchanter, Spellsinger, Virtuoso, Radiant Servant, Warpriest, Exorcist, Divine Avenger, Angel of Vengeance, Purple Dragon Knight, Ravager, Slayer, Knight of the Chalice, Hunter of the Dead, Battle Engineer, TBD ARTI SPEC2, TBD ARTI SPEC3, Acolyte of the Skin, Mechanic, Acrobat, Deedwood Sniper, and Henshin Mystic.

Did I miss any? Yes I absolutely did, but you get the point: the devs have no time to mess around with new classes when the existing ones aren't done yet.

Heh, they don't make money off of PrEs, they make money off of new classes. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point somebody in marketing realizes what kind of flub that the PrEs were and has them recode them so that they are classes that can be sold.

Rakian_Knight
09-22-2011, 05:15 PM
Well, Artificers do bring something new to the game. Infusions that never existed on other spell lists. To be honest, I didn't want Artificers as the next class though, because besides the few new infusions they offer little else that's new, and the things that are new didn't exist in the PnP version of Artys so we had no reason to expect things like Runearms and level scaling Homunculus. Artificers were added because they're world specific to Eberron. It made sense for them to be here. It wasn't Eberron without them. But in and of themselves, they would have been extremely weak in DDO, which is why they got extra goodies.
Hexblades have no such connection to the lore, and they would also be weak in DDO, meaning that they'd need extra goodies. But spending time beefing up a weak class that has no relevance to Eberron would be a huge waste of Dev time when any full BAB class with a few levels of Sorcerer would accomplish the flavor intended, while also getting a better spell list.

So like I said, Hexblades are lame. They're all flavor. If you want flavor, you can build a character to almost mirror a Hexblade with existing game mechanics.
If we're going to see new classes they should be NEW classes. IMO Artificer only got a pass on that rule because of the lore.

No, they aren't connected to the world like Artificers, Druids, and Psionic classes but neither are the Tome of Battle classes that you said you wanted earlier. Also, Hexblades aren't lame, when you take into their abilities working together.

+ d10 hit die, Full base attack, Prof. with all simple and martial weapon, Light armor (no shields), Low fort, ref. strong will. can't be good aligned.
+ Spells: Casting is cha. based, only 4 levels of spells. Starts on level 4
+ Hexblade Curse: target gets -2 to attacks, damage, saves, checks (1/day at first gains another use every 4 levels)
+ Greater Hexblade Curse: increases curse to -4 (level 7)
+ Dire Hexblade Curse: increases curse to -6 (level 19)
+ Arcane Resistance, adds cha. to saves against spells and spell-like abilities.
+ Mettle, evasion for fort and will saves basically.
+ Aura of unluck, gives a 20% concealment basically
+ Familiar (level 4)
+ Bonus feat (every 5 levels)

So at level 20 you basically have a full base attack, martial character with good hit points, that can cause -6 to enemies attack, damage, saves, and checks, and has huge saves vs. spells and can cause a mass blur on top of being able to buff himself and have a good umd score. Yeah, that sounds like a horrible character easily made with mixing a couple other classes.

Calebro
09-22-2011, 05:28 PM
No, they aren't connected to the world like Artificers, Druids, and Psionic classes but neither are the Tome of Battle classes that you said you wanted earlier. Also, Hexblades aren't lame, when you take into their abilities working together.

<description>

Thanks for the breakdown, but I know perfectly well what the class offers. And none of what you just mentioned would be new or exciting. All of those things exist in the game already in one form or another, to a greater or lesser degree, with the sole exception of Mettle. And I already said that Mettle would be the only cool thing about them.

As to the ToB classes not being an inherent part of Eberron: I know this. But at least the ToB classes would bring something new to the game, which would be their appeal. New, different, and exciting. None of which would apply to Hexblades.

People asking for Hexblades confuse me just as much as people asking for Scout and Warlock previously. Give us something new and different, not a mash-up of other things that we already have.

Entelech
09-22-2011, 05:36 PM
The Hexblades also had a unique pet spell that allowed them to summon a shadow beast of some sort. It was pretty potent.

DrakeD77a
09-22-2011, 05:57 PM
I get that some people who power game or lack imagination dont get flavor classes like Hexblade. But So its not for everyone but nothing ever is. I like the counter points especially useful ones. Still like the guy who broke down the Hexblade said a mixture of classes cannot get the full effect of a ful hexblade you can get a dumb shot of something that someone who doesnt know much about playing the class effectively might thing does it, but eh. Yes other classes have pieces of it, but that can be said of most verstile classes.


I ask why limit classes if the designers can make more? Yes it will take time, yes they have other projects but if those were good reasons why make suggestions? Answer ecause ideas will help them in their own creative paths and give them something for the future even if its not the near future. So please if you are gonna bash an idea bash it because its bad or because it needs improvement or something not because you wouldnt use it because its not you or something.

Kinjal
09-22-2011, 06:10 PM
I would also like to see Psionics, both the system and Psionicist/Psychic Warrior.



Psionics are a large portion of he Eberron game setting. Psionic based classes should be the priority, more-so then the Druid or any other class in this game.

I'm just sayin'...

DrakeD77a
09-22-2011, 06:16 PM
psionics is ebberron? i thought they were dark sun. But true they may or may not need to have higher priority since they might be part of the setting but also think they would also be a lot harder on game mechanics to balance and to animate.

Aashrym
09-22-2011, 06:34 PM
Psionics are a large portion of he Eberron game setting. Psionic based classes should be the priority, more-so then the Druid or any other class in this game.

I'm just sayin'...

Druids were also a large part of the Eberron history. No need to prioritize psionics over druids. Just also sayin' ;)

Calebro
09-22-2011, 06:41 PM
a dumb shot of something that someone who doesnt know much about playing the class effectively might thing does it,

So a difference of opinion becomes a personal attack, huh?

Rakian_Knight
09-22-2011, 08:24 PM
Thanks for the breakdown, but I know perfectly well what the class offers. And none of what you just mentioned would be new or exciting. All of those things exist in the game already in one form or another, to a greater or lesser degree, with the sole exception of Mettle. And I already said that Mettle would be the only cool thing about them.

As to the ToB classes not being an inherent part of Eberron: I know this. But at least the ToB classes would bring something new to the game, which would be their appeal. New, different, and exciting. None of which would apply to Hexblades.

People asking for Hexblades confuse me just as much as people asking for Scout and Warlock previously. Give us something new and different, not a mash-up of other things that we already have.

I think I might have an answer for you with the last part. One reason a lot of people like classes like Hexblade, Scout, and Warlock is because they were the classes that got expanded on outside of the one book they were published in unlike a lot of the classes that got created. This list also included, Favored Soul, Marshal, Swashbuckler, and Warmage, and even though they might not be the most original offering something unique, they fit in with the basic classes without overpowering them.

voodoogroves
09-22-2011, 08:31 PM
Tell that to anyone who want to have the completionist feat when at some point there is no additional functionality in adding another class beyond flavor. At some point we need to ask ourselves how many classes we really need to have. ;)

PREs


Please.



Pretty please.


I'll even find some sugar for on-top.

Angelus_dead
09-22-2011, 08:47 PM
Also, Hexblades aren't lame, when you take into their abilities working together.
FYI, the designers of D&D 3.5 announced that Hexblades are lame. Well, the word they used was "suffers", but still they admitted the class was badly written.


So at level 20 you basically have a full base attack, martial character with good hit points, that can cause -6 to enemies attack, damage, saves, and checks, and has huge saves vs. spells and can cause a mass blur on top of being able to buff himself and have a good umd score. Yeah, that sounds like a horrible character easily made with mixing a couple other classes.
Yes, it does sound like a bad character, if you compare it to other level 20 classes (and not the bad ones like Paladin). Imagine what the equivalent writeup for a Wizard would be...

voodoogroves
09-22-2011, 09:02 PM
Yes, it does sound like a bad character, if you compare it to other level 20 classes (and not the bad ones like Paladin). Imagine what the equivalent writeup for a Wizard would be...

"I go first and summon something to kill you that has all of your class abilities and my spell casting powers. In the meantime, I think I'll get a smoothie."

Ecoski
09-22-2011, 09:06 PM
A melee character that misses out on the bonus feats, but gets abilities that mimic spells that are supposed to work as debuffs? That's what the dark monk is, and almost no one actually uses those debuffs, mobs die too fast or get dcs that will prevent the spell from landing unless you drop everything to focus on spell dcs. If a good debuff melee was required, just fix up the dark monk's debuffs instead please :D

(Ninja Spy III would be awesome too :3 )

Xenostrata
09-22-2011, 09:08 PM
First priority: Druids.

After that, whatever. However, I do find the idea of a debuff-focused melee intriguing. At the very least it could lead to some interesting tactical play.

DrakeD77a
09-22-2011, 09:42 PM
Dark monks does have some of that but just not in the same way as a hexblade would i think. but interesting.

Terminus-Est
09-22-2011, 11:16 PM
Hexblades are essentially speaking, the low-power cousins to Duskblades. Even the names are similar; its not a coincidence.

Hexblades were written when the designers of D&d were very leary of letting a class with full BAB cast -any spells at all-. So they gave them mediocre abilities and a mediocre spell list, because they were afraid of them say, being strictly better than fighters (too late, everyone is) or possibly bards/rangers/paladins (success!)

The in theory was a magic-using melee combatant, the in-practice was a ranger who specced in Emo rather than TWF or Bows. Their curses were in pen and paper, terribly lousy. Their shadow companion started out lousy but got an alternative version that wasn't terrible. Mettle was awesome and the only good thing about the class.

And the roll of time went on.

And then they revisited the idea of having a melee spellcaster with Duskblade and they figured it out pretty much perfectly.

What does a spell-caster in melee want to do? DAMAGE thats what. Damage while he swings his weapon around as a reusable, time-efficient resource and access to unique magical defensive and offensive buffs.

The in theory was a magic-using melee combatant with an even mix between buffs, direct damage and crowd control.

The in practice was a magic-using melee combatant who tended to specialize in buffs or crowd control, but had a few high-quality direct damage spells available for ranged engagements.

They didn't get mettle (alas, alas), but they got the ability to cast a spell while full attacking. Cast a spell while full attacking. You know how artificers can charge up and release their rune-arm while full-attacking? Imagine you had full bab, better HP and instead of doing 10-100 damage with your spell, your casting Hold Monster or Polar Ray or Disintegrate. Seems a little more useful to me.

So if we need a Gish class, give me a duskblade over a hexblade any day. Mettle would be hard to code anyways ;)

Talias006
09-23-2011, 02:44 AM
psionics is ebberron? i thought they were dark sun. But true they may or may not need to have higher priority since they might be part of the setting but also think they would also be a lot harder on game mechanics to balance and to animate.

/start tangent derailment
While not positive, I think Dark Sun re-invented Psionics for D&D.
If you've ever played Grey Moon Waning, you'll have heard the classic DM speech:
"It doesn't take a Kalashtar to know..."
Kalashtar are a primary Psionic race.

Not sure how they all relate to each other, but most Kalashtar I've read about seem to be on the side of good.
Or at least keeping the slavish Quori away from Eberron for everyone's best interests.

Also, Illithids (Mind Flayers) are a predominantly psionic race.
They have oodles of powerful magic users among them as well IIRC, but their first attack is usually to try and psionically enslave the hero and make them fight their friends.
Much like the spells Dominate Person or Charm Monster/Person.

/end tangent derailment

DrakeD77a
09-23-2011, 09:33 AM
Thanks Talias.

Anywqays about Hexblade being a underpowered class that may or may not be. But they are different from duskblades flovor wise at least. Duskblades are good out mixture of spell and melee, but Hexblades are spell and melee in attack form but are a little like rogue is skill and mentality.

Phidius
09-23-2011, 09:49 AM
...
So if we need a Gish class, give me a duskblade over a hexblade any day. Mettle would be hard to code anyways ;)

You peaked my interest, so I did a little research. Yeah, duskblade sounds like a lot of fun.

Maybe we should start a Duskblade thread :D

Edit: too late - adding duskblade as a character class (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=276323)

binnsr
09-23-2011, 10:03 AM
sorry, i'd rather they finish up all the PrEs first

This!

Uska
09-23-2011, 10:30 AM
Sorry rather have druids first then just about anything else over hexblade they seem rather ho hum to me.

DrakeD77a
09-23-2011, 10:49 AM
Hmm, as i said its not for everyone. but this verstile classes are my favorite. I favor teh rogue and front runnner mentality.

Eso
09-23-2011, 02:54 PM
Here is a idea for a update. Bring in the Hexblade from D&D 3.5 in. The Hexblade is a close combat fighter with limited spellcasting ability, mostly using it to debuff or lower stats of his enemies. This ability is through "curses" or "hexes" and at higher levels gets a aura of unluck which gives enemies miss chances against him because they caught bad luck. Luck is a central theme in their backgroud. Supposely they are such unlucky people they had t learn how to make that bad luck affect their enemies instead of them. They lose the fighter feats for this limited ability but i think its a cool idea.


I would think this would wed nicely into current ddo animation abilities since it is not asking for much more in the way of animation besides normal casting rites or something, because most of the affects are invisable just affecting the luck of the enemy. balancing those hard fights.


what about fvs?
fvs aura debuff enemys,lower stats (if you want)use curses,spells etc,melee dps,spell dmg and plus self heal.
lol

DrakeD77a
09-24-2011, 09:45 AM
I like FvS but them being divine and completely different in mentality and development for one is more spell caster than Hexblade, not to mention divine instead of Arcane. And the skill set is completely different. And hexblades have more weapons choice.

DrakeD77a
03-01-2012, 08:33 PM
Well now we have Druid, now what do people think?

Blank_Zero
03-01-2012, 08:53 PM
+1

I'm irritated that we got another new class with yet another unfinished PrE. Having a blast so far with the arti, but it really does drive me nuts that we only got battle engineer 1

Necroing to add to this.

While only getting BE1, I think it was a mixed blessing. The fact that there is only 2-3 "optimal" Arty levels (6/18/20) made it very easy to forgo the usual "How can I optimize my PrE?" questions and instead offered "How can this 1 rank of PrE mesh with other PrEs?"

I love seeing 6/6/8 builds personally. BE1 made it easier to see that for others.

Delssar
03-01-2012, 09:15 PM
Iv been thinking about this.

Why not make a new class and call it along the lines of "arcane warrior" and have the Hexblade / Spell Sword / Something else as its prestieges.

ArcaneMelee
03-01-2012, 09:31 PM
Iv been thinking about this.

Why not make a new class and call it along the lines of "arcane warrior" and have the Hexblade / Spell Sword / Something else as its prestieges.

I'd much rather that they ditch the "Wild Mage" PrE, and substitute a "Duskblade" PrE instead.

Just thinking about it gives me a warm feeli... dang it, gotta go change now.

licho
03-02-2012, 07:32 AM
I have much lower expectacion from Duskblade than being full caster with melee option. (lol)

It will be enought if:
- It has a very melee feeling, so medium armor, sword, full BAB.
- It could really switch its combat time between offensive casting (blasting) and swinging stick. However, that dosnt mean full tier 9 spells (lol). The 5th is enought. (maybe with some downgrade in similar way as bard)
- Channeling spell! Ability to trigger spell effect with succesful blow (like eneveracion on hit, or shocking grasp, or chain lighting) or just channel raw eldrich energy into to power blows (burning mana to have some +nd of force dmg similar to Paladin)
- I really like the debuffing aspect, simply becouse debuffing in this game is nearly no existing, since fights are short, and if you can debuff you could be easier to just instakill it. And if the curse will be scalling with the class level to something like: -10 to all stats, -5 to all saves, and cut the hp by half + slow, this will be something worth using,. So this class should have lots of debuffs.
- Generally the casting aproach should be similar to Artificer, so some 1or2 cc spells, maybe more blasting than buffing, and some utylity spells.
- Some interesting abilities like Mantle will be a asset.

However such a class shoudl not have:
- Be a trapmonkey, this is for Bards and Articifer, that means also no inherit UMD
- Have a perfect self healing even for a p2w race, we have enought of this.
- Participate in the doting and instadeath madness.

Now, for many such a class will be to hard to play, but for others it will be very fun.

Note: The 16/2/2 is not the substitute of this class, neither melee specced fvs.
It will be more like fighter version of articifer without specialist part. (and no healing, even for WF) And not a repeater user but more melee.

Calebro
03-02-2012, 07:41 AM
It will be overpowered if:
- It has a very melee feeling, so medium armor, sword, full BAB.
- It could really switch its combat time between offensive casting (blasting) and swinging stick.
- Channeling spell! Ability to trigger spell effect with succesful blow (like eneveracion on hit, or shocking grasp, or chain lighting) or just channel raw eldrich energy into to power blows (burning mana to have some +nd of force dmg similar to Paladin)
- I really like the debuffing aspect, simply becouse debuffing in this game is nearly no existing, since fights are short, and if you can debuff you could be easier to just instakill it. And if the curse will be scalling with the class level to something like: -10 to all stats, -5 to all saves, and cut the hp by half + slow, this will be something worth using,. So this class should have lots of debuffs.
- Generally the casting aproach should be similar to Artificer, so some 1or2 cc spells, maybe more blasting than buffing, and some utylity spells.
- Some interesting abilities like Mantle will be a asset.

fify
Full casting, full BAB, and that would only just be "enough"?
Sorry bro, but it's never going to happen. That would just be WAY OP.
There would be zero reason to ever roll anything other than a WF version of whatever you just created, other than possibly a rogue or monk splash of that abomination.

Monkey-Boy
03-02-2012, 07:58 AM
No Warblades. Ever.

What's a Warblade?

licho
03-02-2012, 08:05 AM
What's a Warblade?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2

Thats said, i dont understand why smb can not love warblades.
Warblades (and generally Tome of Battle classes) are what melee classes should look like from the biggining.

Calebro
03-02-2012, 08:06 AM
What's a Warblade?

It's a class from Tome of Battle: the Book of Nine Swords
In PnP, casters dominated high levels, just as they do here. That book created a few classes that used a system which evened the playing field a bit, and allowed the three classes within to keep up with casters to a certain degree.
The book, and the classes within, were loved by some, and deemed OP by others.

Monkey-Boy
03-02-2012, 08:19 AM
It's a class from Tome of Battle: the Book of Nine Swords
In PnP, casters dominated high levels, just as they do here. That book created a few classes that used a system which evened the playing field a bit, and allowed the three classes within to keep up with casters to a certain degree.
The book, and the classes within, were loved by some, and deemed OP by others.

Thanks, i took a look at the link quoted above.

I guess something like that would be implemented as a Fighter PRE in DDO . . . but I'm not sure how much better it'd be over what we have.

I suspect we'll see similar stuff to that in the epic levels.

DrakeD77a
03-02-2012, 08:23 AM
I liked that arcane warrior idea with all the different types being PrE. I am always up for variety and discussion.

Doxmaster
03-02-2012, 09:50 AM
+ d10 hit die, Full base attack, Prof. with all simple and martial weapon, Light armor (no shields), Low fort, ref. strong will. can't be good aligned.

Decent hit die.
Divine Power
Masters touch or helf dilly or melee splash
Poor armor (I doubt AC builds will actually come up anyway)
Weak fort save (abnormal for melees)
Weak reflex save (spells/traps)
Good will save (not enough effects that one cant become immune to)
Can only be X/neutral

+ Spells: Casting is cha. based, only 4 levels of spells. Starts on level 4

Nothing significant.

+ Hexblade Curse: target gets -2 to attacks, damage, saves, checks (1/day at first gains another use every 4 levels)
+ Greater Hexblade Curse: increases curse to -4 (level 7)
+ Dire Hexblade Curse: increases curse to -6 (level 19)

For bosses. Pretty good.

+ Arcane Resistance, adds cha. to saves against spells and spell-like abilities.
Mettle, evasion for fort and will saves basically.
Helps with poor fort/reflex saves, but total immunity of the more dangerous effects found on those makes this nice, but unnecessary

+ Aura of unluck, gives a 20% concealment basically
Wand of Blur. Duskheart. Greensteel items. The list goes on.

+ Familiar (level 4)
Nope.

+ Bonus feat (every 5 levels)
Normally must be casting related, which would be a terribly choice for these guys.
---
We cannot predict what Turbine would do with them, if they got permission to work with them in the first place. The features listed, however, are not at all attractive to me. Swordsage (or warblade in its place) both offer more, but it seems Turbine has already ripped them apart to create the foundation for monks. I also do not know what their stance on chain ability DPS (ala paladin/monk) is and that is at the core of these two classes so even they might not be welcome…