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Sarcos
09-16-2011, 09:25 PM
This is just rediculous, had a bunch of barbs beating on dq for about 10 minutes and still wiped, this is not a challenge, it's a mnemonic pot sink. Please re-examine these mobs hp. it's not a new challenge, it's just sillyness.

Doxmaster
09-18-2011, 07:31 AM
What difficulty, what levels, etc. Did you know them? What is their gear setup like? Were they breaking DR, using Lit2s, or just using +5 holy sickles?

Info like that is what you could have given us instead of just complaining about challenges being too challenging.

Shade
09-18-2011, 08:06 AM
mm last one I ran we killed her in 2 min and used no pots.

Getting more DPS is a challenge imo.

grp was a pug I put together in 10min

A 2 min fight in a pug grp isn't exactly what i'd call too crazy on the hp side..

There are some crazy high HP bosses out there in the upgraded raids for sure. Lailat isn't one of them.

Epic Ronny and Sally are what id call a bit excessive on the HP side of things. Give those a try.

Emili
09-18-2011, 08:08 AM
Lmao... I do not know bout eDQ as of changes yet... I do eTmA is kind of silly ...

I do eTmA is kind of silly ... you beat on the two titans for what seems like bleedin' ever ... with four heavy geared melee in group I used fourteen power surges and boosts only cover 'bouts 20 to 25% of the fight usuage at most. Then when they're ready to pop ... bang, boss shield down and he's dead in bout a minute, no more two... seems bleedin' arseways shall ya ask me.

Shade
09-18-2011, 08:11 AM
[COLOR="Plum"]
Lmao... I do not know bout eDQ as of changes yet... I do eTmA is kind of silly ...


yea i think i heard something about them possibly mashing random buttons when they put the epic HP figures in for the new titans.. There a bit excessive, tedious even in the best of groups.

ELoB hp are reasonable tho imo. Probably similar to the titans, but difference is you can crit him and theres only one of him.

Bufo_Alvarius
09-18-2011, 08:11 AM
Hp are fine, but any boss with over 50% fort (excluding abbot etc) needs less. 50% fort max please turbine. Think of the rogues.

Emili
09-18-2011, 08:17 AM
yea i think i heard something about them possibly mashing random buttons when they put the epic HP figures in for the new titans.. There a bit excessive, tedious even in the best of groups.

ELoB hp are reasonable tho imo. Probably similar to the titans, but difference is you can crit him and theres only one of him.

I'd like to equate it to digging at Ayers or Gibraltar with a toothbrush.

Yes contrast is eLoB seems very reasonable. So eLoB is actually interesting and fun, while eTmA has this one single point in it where it just seems bleedin' tedious. Sentinals/golems/artificer wave - fun, electric wave - fun (even though I believe the mana regen on crystal beat down laggs the h377 out of me), Titan round - starts out fun but grows into ... are we freakin' done yet?

Makes me want to turn on auto-attack (which I never use) go in the kitchen and prepare a stew, turn on the crock-pot, come back check on eTmA titan progress, set an alarm on them then go take to bed... ;)

Barazon
09-18-2011, 08:57 AM
This is just rediculous, had a bunch of barbs beating on dq for about 10 minutes and still wiped, this is not a challenge, it's a mnemonic pot sink. Please re-examine these mobs hp. it's not a new challenge, it's just sillyness.

Just buy more mnemonic potions in the DDO Store = WORKING AS INTENDED!!

Souless
09-18-2011, 09:02 AM
mm last one I ran we killed her in 2 min and used no pots.

Getting more DPS is a challenge imo.

grp was a pug I put together in 10min

A 2 min fight in a pug grp isn't exactly what i'd call too crazy on the hp side..

There are some crazy high HP bosses out there in the upgraded raids for sure. Lailat isn't one of them.

Epic Ronny and Sally are what id call a bit excessive on the HP side of things. Give those a try.

This is NOT the case after U11.

It seems as if any epic boss has super high fort. This is unbalancing at the extreem. Casters, r now kings....with access to pots to remain at full power...since caster damage is unaffected by the fort change. All you need to do now as a melee is donate pots, sheild block, and let the casters dot their way to victory.

As a melee player this seems to be the worst change ever...I say do what shade did...form an all caster grp and PROVE that melee's are wasted spots in any epic dungeon.

The Bytcher~

Souless/Spectyr/Xbow/Xindao/Tazzor/Vampir/Valice/Richgirl

Shade
09-18-2011, 04:52 PM
This is NOT the case after U11.


Well the run was after u11.

Casters? I only took one.

grodon9999
09-18-2011, 05:20 PM
Hp are fine, but any boss with over 50% fort (excluding abbot etc) needs less. 50% fort max please turbine. Think of the rogues.

Yes, from what I've seen of the old "upgraded" raids the HP would be fine at 50% fort.

The current situation makes pugging very difficult and rogue borderline useless which is bad for the game.

sirgog
09-18-2011, 07:37 PM
Epic Lailat had less HP than Normal Harry before the update. She still has only Normal Horoth level HP.

If you were swinging for 10 minutes, here's the problem: People are missing her (quite high) AC.

Oh and casters in there aren't overly high DPS (as she is immune to Eladar's Electric Surge), but are incredibly good at sustaining damage over the whole fight duration. Just 3-stack Niac's for ~200 DPS. Then at the end when she goes berserk, unload your Polar Rays, DBFs, Black Dragon Bolts, and the like.

Souless
09-19-2011, 07:49 PM
Well the run was after u11.

Casters? I only took one.

I was told that u ran an all Fvs LOB to *help* the devs come to the conclusion that the wings needed to be nerfed abit.

But that doesnt change the fact that u need only run a grp of wf casters in ANY epic raid for victory...unlimited resourses...dots unaffected by fort. As I said be4, edq2 was just the first run for me on my melee..

I had good gear, the party was good, and she still died..It doesnt change the fact that I noticed damge was going ALOT slower. The only non caster to pull agro was the rogue with the bypass fort feat they can get and he was quickly killed for such an affront!

12 casters FTW! til they change the fort!

The Bytcher~

vittordevittor
09-19-2011, 07:50 PM
This is just rediculous, had a bunch of barbs beating on dq for about 10 minutes and still wiped, this is not a challenge, it's a mnemonic pot sink. Please re-examine these mobs hp. it's not a new challenge, it's just sillyness.

im trying to say that for some time man. i agree with you

Veriden
09-20-2011, 02:27 AM
if they wanted to make things more challenging, they should give bosses spell fort. Fort that applies to spells. Its only fair casters have to deal with dealing normal damage also. Its also not only the fort for melee, the hp boost is major. I purposefully ditched improved crit on my monk b/c if I'm fighting something with near 100% fort 19-20 rolls isn't going to save me especially when I deal bursts damage on threats anyways. When you only crit 5% of the time fort is hardly an issue. The hp boost is a bit extreme. Scale it back a bit, add spell fort and bam, less long tedious fights that casters aren't out right owning.

Souless
09-20-2011, 05:49 PM
if they wanted to make things more challenging, they should give bosses spell fort. Fort that applies to spells. Its only fair casters have to deal with dealing normal damage also. Its also not only the fort for melee, the hp boost is major. I purposefully ditched improved crit on my monk b/c if I'm fighting something with near 100% fort 19-20 rolls isn't going to save me especially when I deal bursts damage on threats anyways. When you only crit 5% of the time fort is hardly an issue. The hp boost is a bit extreme. Scale it back a bit, add spell fort and bam, less long tedious fights that casters aren't out right owning.

Spell crit isn't the problem. I'm still seeing nice number off a non-crit dot and a non crit Polar Ray. Thats why they added so manny HP's.

So spell fort alone would only lengthen these battles...spell fort +<hp's = zero net change from the old way things were done.

I'm unsure of a nice compromise here, but all I can say thusfar is that it makes the game less fun for me. That may change as i get used to the change but the drain on resourses seems extreem.

Finally...spell fort +<hp + major pots = dead raid boss and just further shifts the power to the casters.

The Bytcher~

mystafyi
09-20-2011, 06:46 PM
that casters aren't out right owning.
omg!!!! and you took that encrusted cuz you said you were tr'ing into a non-blue bar since u11 was all about sucking down pots. :D:D

Zerkul
09-20-2011, 07:02 PM
If you (means whoever join an epic) are not Epic Ready don't join Epics or Epic Raids. Endgame raids are meant to be difficult or at least challenging, they were just a joke. If you need to use pots to complete them you are not doing them correctly or party was not ready for it.

kingarthas87
09-20-2011, 07:14 PM
If you (means whoever join an epic) are not Epic Ready don't join Epics or Epic Raids. Endgame raids are meant to be difficult or at least challenging, they were just a joke. If you need to use pots to complete them you are not doing them correctly or party was not ready for it.

This is a great idea if the noobs thinks the same way you do, but they believe that you are epic ready with a 100-300hp toon when they just dinged 20. Then when you tell them they not ready cry about it and call you an elitist who thinks epics is a special club.

Xyfiel
09-20-2011, 08:09 PM
If you (means whoever join an epic) are not Epic Ready don't join Epics or Epic Raids. Endgame raids are meant to be difficult or at least challenging, they were just a joke. If you need to use pots to complete them you are not doing them correctly or party was not ready for it.

Being Sarcos was in IFV when they were doing world firsts, Legion when they were doing world firsts, and now in another top end guild, he is far from what you are describing.

sirgog
09-20-2011, 08:11 PM
if they wanted to make things more challenging, they should give bosses spell fort. Fort that applies to spells. Its only fair casters have to deal with dealing normal damage also. Its also not only the fort for melee, the hp boost is major. I purposefully ditched improved crit on my monk b/c if I'm fighting something with near 100% fort 19-20 rolls isn't going to save me especially when I deal bursts damage on threats anyways. When you only crit 5% of the time fort is hardly an issue. The hp boost is a bit extreme. Scale it back a bit, add spell fort and bam, less long tedious fights that casters aren't out right owning.

Electric and cold absorb would work better for keeping casters in check.

Nyvn
09-20-2011, 08:18 PM
Electric and cold absorb would work better for keeping casters in check.


Unfortunately since we have no dev comments on this change, it's somewhat hard to know what their goal was...

We know what the results have been. Longer, but doable boss fights.

Shade
09-21-2011, 09:48 AM
I was told that u ran an all Fvs LOB to *help* the devs come to the conclusion that the wings needed to be nerfed abit.

But that doesnt change the fact that u need only run a grp of wf casters in ANY epic raid for victory...unlimited resourses...dots unaffected by fort. As I said be4, edq2 was just the first run for me on my melee..


Were told wrong. All the LoB I've ran have been in balanced groups, even the epic on lamannia ive lead. Revanants did one of the first ones in a mostly FvS group, but not all fvs.

I actaully only ran my fvs on them once each.. 95% of my runs are on my bbn's.

Fort: Lailat had zero fort in our run. How ? Standard ball method, 1 angel of vengeac.e. The procs last so long now that she is pretty much permanently at 0% fort.

Caster: Our one caster was human, not WF. He did awesome.

I think Dragons quite a lot harder now even for the well prepared. A few mistakes on the breaths or lag are so much more devastating.
DQ2? Nah. If you have a group deserving of a victory, youll get one much the same as last mod with 0 pots.

grodon9999
09-21-2011, 10:53 AM
Fort: Lailat had zero fort in our run. How ? Standard ball method, 1 angel of vengeac.e. The procs last so long now that she is pretty much permanently at 0% fort.

I'm sorry can you elaborate on that? how does that work exactly?

Souless
09-22-2011, 06:23 PM
Were told wrong. All the LoB I've ran have been in balanced groups, even the epic on lamannia ive lead. Revanants did one of the first ones in a mostly FvS group, but not all fvs.

I actaully only ran my fvs on them once each.. 95% of my runs are on my bbn's.

Fort: Lailat had zero fort in our run. How ? Standard ball method, 1 angel of vengeac.e. The procs last so long now that she is pretty much permanently at 0% fort.

Caster: Our one caster was human, not WF. He did awesome.

I think Dragons quite a lot harder now even for the well prepared. A few mistakes on the breaths or lag are so much more devastating.
DQ2? Nah. If you have a group deserving of a victory, youll get one much the same as last mod with 0 pots.

My err...I was told that Shade (a toon on kyber) ran LoB with all FvS.