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View Full Version : Less Fort/HP, more Environmental Hazards



Xenostrata
09-15-2011, 09:29 PM
I understand why you felt that increasing the challenge on raids/epics was necessary. Some of them had become jokes for even a clueless, ill-equipped PuG to complete (*cough*ebigtop*cough*). However, just boosting boss fortification, health, and damage was a bad way to do it, since changes like those affect the classes in incredibly imbalanced ways.

Boosting fortification without giving rogues more way to bypass it makes them lose their single best source of damage.
Increasing fortification just makes melees even weaker compared to casters, and your apparent answer to casters (increased HP to prevent pure nuking) isn't viewed as a caster nerf so much as a way to force players to buy SP pots.
Very few or none of these changes actually make the raids more dependent on player skill, just on gear/build choices. The "difficulty" here is finding a way to last for the longer time, which for casters can mean SP conservation but usually just means heal scrolls and a Torc.
Because the challenge increase focused mostly on gear and not on player skill, it results in making endgame raids/epics a Catch-22: In order to complete in a cost-effective manner, you need to have the gear that the quest drops.

So, with those in mind, I make this suggestion:
Return bosses to their pre-u11 conditions (with maybe a few exceptions, new stormreaver is kind of nice but could do with a fort reduction), and implement more environmental hazards.

For instance,
In ToD have Orthon spawns scale more heavily with difficulty and have tiefling arcanes/divines spawn on hard and elite, all with deathward and FoM.
Have Velah interrupt her usual pointless melee flailing with randomly placed cometfalls, and perhaps have some way to see them coming (a subtle shadow on the ground, maybe). Trap version DBFs will ranndomly fall from the sky, and explode when stepped on (however, if left untouched for 15 seconds they will dissipate without exploding).
In eDQ2, have the blade barriers inflict significantly more damage, but have them be more avoidable if you move around (to discourage "balling" up).
Give the special effects of the CAD a larger AoE, extending behind it as well as in front of it. Possibly give him Disjunction and teleport/agro dump effects as well.
Have hard/elite Xyzzy randomly switch aggro, even when puppied, and/or have a ninth portal in the center room that likes to spawn baby beholders. Don't allow bees to be blocked by Globes, instead give players 10 potions of Honey Curative each at the beginning.
Give the Abbot a Retributive Shield (10-25% chance of reflecting ray spells back on the caster), don't allow waterwalk to work on the lake, and have contact with the lake cast a Disjunction (removing DI). Perhaps give him some persistent DoTs of his own (Max+Empped WoF on annoying casters). Also, whenever the Abbot casts Disjunction a Symbol of Death is cast, centered on himself.
Suulomades' Healing Curse now reduces incoming Repair effects by 50%, and the Binding Chains are permanent but can be removed by walking through the spikes in the center of the room. He also casts an AoE chain, centered on himself, every minute or so. If you are cursed, you cannot be chained (However, if you are chained you can still be cursed). Sulu has also had some Masons come in and work on his decor, resulting in much more walls that are made of only the smoothest marble. Any annoying crevices have disappeared, and he can no longer be dragged into them.
Hard Harry enjoys casting Disjunction on whoever he is targeting, and elite Harry likes to follow that up with an Energy Drain and/or PW:K. Whenever Harry is incapable of moving to his target (targeting a caster, and is surrounded by melees) he likes to summon the target to him and cast DBF.

The idea is to challenge a players skill, not willingness to chug mana pots. Adding in more challenge should mean better team coordination, better player tactics and movement, and most importantly if a person is playing extraordinarily well, then they are rewarded by not needing to spend much/any resources. Making the fights longer doesn't add challenge for the experienced players, just boredom. Adding in purely numerical obstacles make it MUCH more difficult for a new player to defeat a quest without gear the quest would give, but if the challenge isn't increased hp/damage but instead environmental obstacles, then if the person is a GOOD player then they can expect to learn the tricks to the quest and beat it without the uber gear.

R0cksteady
09-15-2011, 09:52 PM
A good example would be the new raids.

While the old raids were just buffing the bosses stats, the new raids add a lot of coordination, paying close attention and moving to get through without using tons of resources. I really like they way they made them challenging without it just being "Auto attack while sorcs nuke and clerics cast mass heal"

Xenostrata
09-15-2011, 10:20 PM
A good example would be the new raids.

While the old raids were just buffing the bosses stats, the new raids add a lot of coordination, paying close attention and moving to get through without using tons of resources. I really like they way they made them challenging without it just being "Auto attack while sorcs nuke and clerics cast mass heal"

I haven't been in them myself yet, but by what I've heard my Jump (Conclusions) skill check has resulted in me believing that the new raids have excelent mechanics, they are just way too long (too much hp). Having lots of fun ways to fail is good, but resource depletion on good characters should not be one of them.

Besides that, yeah, I wish all raids were like that. More motion, more tactics, more coordination, more challenge (more fun!). Making eVON6 last twice as hard without changing the actual difficulty didn't make it more challenging or fun, just more boring.