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smatt
09-10-2011, 12:42 PM
OK, so with allt he talk about the erosion and slow bleed of the benefits of DDO-EU VIP benefit..... I knwo some VIP's think they are entitled to everything plus a herd of pink ponies :eek::D

But let's face it the Prem's have constantly been getting more and more added to their deal with little or no effort of expense, which has lessened any real benefits of being a VIP . So here's my idea... Give VIP's an additional 20% off all store purchases. Now I know that won't benefit ALL VIP's , some dont' spend any more TP's than their 500 per month alotment, but many DO spend more. I do on variosu thins such as bank and inventory space, loot boosts, the occasional lowbie in quest rez :o, etc etc.

Now then what would this cost Turbine, well they would lose 20% of revenue form those VIP store sales, but I'm bettingthat this would actualyl bump the total store sales to VIP by far more than that 20%. Of course without actually seeing the numbers, which is never goign to happen, we out here can never know.

To me this is a low risk idea for Turbine, and all upside for VIP...


WIN -WIN! :D

Aesop
09-10-2011, 12:48 PM
OK, so with allt he talk about the erosion and slow bleed of the benefits of DDO-EU VIP benefit..... I knwo some VIP's think they are entitled to everything plus a herd of pink ponies :eek::D

But let's face it the Prem's have constantly been getting more and more added to their deal with little or no effort of expense, which has lessened any real benefits of being a VIP . So here's my idea... Give VIP's an additional 20% off all store purchases. Now I know that won't benefit ALL VIP's , some dont' spend any more TP's than their 500 per month alotment, but many DO spend more. I do on variosu thins such as bank and inventory space, loot boosts, the occasional lowbie in quest rez :o, etc etc.

Now then what would this cost Turbine, well they would lose 20% of revenue form those VIP store sales, but I'm bettingthat this would actualyl bump the total store sales to VIP by far more than that 20%. Of course without actually seeing the numbers, which is never goign to happen, we out here can never know.

To me this is a low risk idea for Turbine, and all upside for VIP...


WIN -WIN! :D


I would say 10% at most 20% seems too high

Aesop

Deanarth
09-10-2011, 12:53 PM
Considering VIPs can't buy adventure packs or other VIP perks while VIP, and when they go Premium they shouldn't get that discount anymore, seems one of the potential biggest revenue losses wouldn't be available for that discount. In my opinion at least.

I'd agree to a 10/20% discount. 'course I'm VIP so slightly biased :)

DawnofEntropy
09-10-2011, 12:54 PM
I'm all for 20 percent off.
/Signed

After all, we can only buy the fluff so what's the harm?
I mean honestly, we should get 50 percent off.
God forbid we get amazing armor kits half-off, they effect the game so much besides cosmetics.

smatt
09-10-2011, 12:58 PM
Considering VIPs can't buy adventure packs or other VIP perks while VIP, and when they go Premium they shouldn't get that discount anymore, seems one of the potential biggest revenue losses wouldn't be available for that discount. In my opinion at least.

I'd agree to a 10/20% discount. 'course I'm VIP so slightly biased :)

No premiums should not be part of this VIP discount idea.... If you go Prem from VIP, in my world at least you would lose the discount.

I could've said, well they should give us 600 TP's a month instead of 500, which equals a 20% bump.. But I think that the 20% will benfit a lot fo players, who won't buy more points and ALSO encourage many VIP's to acutally buy more points. Again a WIN WIN...

Deanarth
09-10-2011, 12:59 PM
I'm all for 20 percent off.
/Signed

After all, we can only buy the fluff so what's the harm?
I mean honestly, we should get 50 percent off.
God forbid we get amazing armor kits half-off, they effect the game so much besides cosmetics.

I do support the 50% off armor kits. They are ridiculously overpriced for a consumable cosmetic item you lose if you upgrade your armor.

The_Brave2
09-10-2011, 01:02 PM
/Signed on the OP
/Signed on larger discounts on cosmetics.

The10man
09-10-2011, 02:16 PM
I'm all for 20 percent off.
/Signed

After all, we can only buy the fluff so what's the harm?
I mean honestly, we should get 50 percent off.
God forbid we get amazing armor kits half-off, they effect the game so much besides cosmetics.

I think a 20% discount and FREE or heavily discounted fluff-only stuff like armor kits and hair color. New classes/races/etc should be INCLUDED in the VIP price. I pay monthly for the WHOLE game. Forget the 2 weekday "preview" when it has all been seen on Lamania. Open it up to all on the same day, but make my sub be for the WHOLE game. The more it is seen/"out there" the more wanted it would be. I personally will NEVER pay for a fluff armor kit even with my "free" points I pay for every month. Especially when on upgrade it goes away. And why should new stuff cost $ when the sub is my payment. I don't want everything and pink ponies; I want to pay one price per month for the WHOLE game. Add-ons and optionals like xp/loot boosts airship amenitys etc that are not part of the full game are things that I am ok buying as an optional expense. VIP shouldn't be less attractive than premium. It is right now though. Most "Uber-leet power gamers" I know are premium.

Samadhi
09-10-2011, 02:20 PM
I do support the 50% off armor kits. They are ridiculously overpriced for a consumable cosmetic item you lose if you upgrade your armor.

I could definitely see the idea of tiered bonuses, so that cosmetic items get a larger bump (50% at minimum for how overpriced those are), while things that further encourage transitioning to premium might get no benefit.

The real question, though, is if the data points to premium or VIP being the better money-maker for Turbine. Having seen "research" like this done by a lot of companies quite poorly, they might not even know.

Ungood
09-10-2011, 02:24 PM
Let us buy Content like Classes/Quests/Races, while the VIP is active. At this point that is the only "Perk" I want.

The10man
09-10-2011, 02:30 PM
Let us buy Content like Classes/Quests/Races, while the VIP is active. At this point that is the only "Perk" I want.

If they do that VIP will truly go away QUICKLY! The only thing that keeps me from Premium at this point is I want full access NOW. If I were taking a break at all I would cancel save up and buy the packs. If I could buy them a little at a time instead of all at once I would be transitioning to premium.

Ugumagre
09-10-2011, 02:32 PM
It could be a lot easier than that. Just 1000 to 750 TP per month, instead of 500.
That would do it for me.

pie2655
09-10-2011, 02:33 PM
/signed

Lanthum
09-10-2011, 02:42 PM
/signed

Man I would love to hear directly from Turbine their reasoning behind sticking it to the VIPs. If I pay a subscription fee for something that is called "VIP", then I had better be treated like a VIP. Not some non-paying, or even worse - a second-class customer. Why even bother having a "VIP" service if you are not going to bother treating right?

I know, we are never going to hear their reasoning. Because the people at Turbine who make those kind of decisions don't come on the forums, and those that do can't talk about it. But it would be nice ...

Arel
09-10-2011, 02:45 PM
/signed as a Premium player. This will really attract those that like to buy extra fluff/boosts more than just occasionally to go VIP. I'm thrifty, so it doesn't matter to me, but I can see where this would encourage people to switch over/stay for a couple of different reasons.

Kalari
09-10-2011, 02:47 PM
While this perk definitely is not a bad one (trust me ive seen stinkers) The only true perk id like and would pay extra for is the luxury of never having to ever use the store for unlocking new things. If it means my sub jumps up 5 more dollars so be it, but thats what I was mainly paying a sub for in the first place.

Id definitely use the 20 percent specially since I love cosmetic stuff but honestly all I want is to know what price I have to pay each month if needed to never ever have to worry about unlocking a darn thing that was the thing keeping me at subscriber level and I fear with this new update they are trying to find a way around that :(

DawnofEntropy
09-10-2011, 02:48 PM
Also NO DISCOUNT for PREMIUMS.

Sorry for the caps, but V.I.P.S need some perks of there own/.

The10man
09-10-2011, 02:51 PM
while This Perk Definitely Is Not A Bad One (trust Me Ive Seen Stinkers) The Only True Perk Id Like And Would Pay Extra For Is The Luxury Of Never Having To Ever Use The Store For Unlocking New Things. If It Means My Sub Jumps Up 5 More Dollars So Be It, But Thats What I Was Mainly Paying A Sub For In The First Place.

Id Definitely Use The 20 Percent Specially Since I Love Cosmetic Stuff But Honestly All I Want Is To Know What Price I Have To Pay Each Month If Needed To Never Ever Have To Worry About Unlocking A Darn Thing That Was The Thing Keeping Me At Subscriber Level And I Fear With This New Update They Are Trying To Find A Way Around That :(

^^^^this^^^^

R0cksteady
09-10-2011, 02:56 PM
While this perk definitely is not a bad one (trust me ive seen stinkers) The only true perk id like and would pay extra for is the luxury of never having to ever use the store for unlocking new things. If it means my sub jumps up 5 more dollars so be it, but thats what I was mainly paying a sub for in the first place.

Id definitely use the 20 percent specially since I love cosmetic stuff but honestly all I want is to know what price I have to pay each month if needed to never ever have to worry about unlocking a darn thing that was the thing keeping me at subscriber level and I fear with this new update they are trying to find a way around that :(

We get this. This is the basis behind ViP. It's just that Turbine found a sneaky way to charge us for a class.

GoRinNoSho
09-10-2011, 04:09 PM
Personally I'd like to see something useful but not completely game changing , such as an annual or bi-annual ViP gift that allow you to convert a BtC item to a BtA item. Incredibly useful, not game changing. Lower the tedium in grinding out some gear.

Requiro
09-10-2011, 04:15 PM
(I post this in other thread)

My idea for additional perk for VIP:

Loyalty BONUS TP:
Let's say:

1% per 1 month (maximum from that bonus: 120%)
2% per 6 month (Maximum from that bonus: 40%)
5% per year (maximum from that bonus: 50%)
10% per 5 year (maximum from that bonus: 20%)


Examples:

After 4 month: 520 TP
After 10 month: 560 TP
After 14 month: 615 TP
After 60 month: 1075 TP
(maximum): After 120 month: 1650 TP

Loyalty Discount for VIP:
Let's say:

1% per 6 month (maximum from that bonus: 20%)
1% per year (maximum from that bonus: 10%)
2% per 5 year (maximum from that bonus: 4%)


Examples:

After 4 month: non Discount
After 10 month: 1% discount for all products
After 14 month: 3% discount for all
After 60 month: 17% discount for all
(maximum): After 120 month: 34% discount for all

Work retrospective for all VIPs.

You lose every bonus when you stop pay.

smatt
09-10-2011, 05:21 PM
(I post this in other thread)

My idea for additional perk for VIP:

Loyalty BONUS TP:
Let's say:

1% per 1 month (maximum from that bonus: 120%)
2% per 6 month (Maximum from that bonus: 40%)
5% per year (maximum from that bonus: 50%)
10% per 5 year (maximum from that bonus: 20%)


Examples:

After 4 month: 520 TP
After 10 month: 560 TP
After 14 month: 615 TP
After 60 month: 1075 TP
(maximum): After 120 month: 1650 TP

Loyalty Discount for VIP:
Let's say:

1% per 6 month (maximum from that bonus: 20%)
1% per year (maximum from that bonus: 10%)
2% per 5 year (maximum from that bonus: 4%)


Examples:

After 4 month: non Discount
After 10 month: 1% discount for all products
After 14 month: 3% discount for all
After 60 month: 17% discount for all
(maximum): After 120 month: 34% discount for all

Work retrospective for all VIPs.

You lose every bonus when you stop pay.

Not a bad idea, but the basis of my idea is that it doesn't cost Turbine revenue. Sure it costs them a bit of coding.. The only possible downside for them would be if a lot of VIP players used the discounts to buy content and then went premium. But I still think in the long run they would generate more revenue from store sales using the model I presented. You're idea is Turbine giving away more points, with little possibility of those points encouraging more store sales cash wise, there's little upside possibility for them in this other than possibly placating a few VIPs for a while. Hey, I'm all for more points but......

Ungood
09-10-2011, 05:34 PM
Let us buy Content like Classes/Quests/Races, while the VIP is active. At this point that is the only "Perk" I want.
If they do that VIP will truly go away QUICKLY!

Yah...So?


From a QA standpoint VIP/Premium/Free is just a pain in the butt, since there are 3 tiers of stuff added to the complexity of our testing.

Maybe U11 is the writing on the wall that VIP ran it's course?

(check my sig for ideas on how to walk away from VIP and still get most of, if not everything you want)

oradafu
09-10-2011, 06:29 PM
I have to agree with Ungood about allowing VIPs the ability to buy content. Prior to Update 11, there were two things that really separated VIP from Premium: Unlocking Difficulties and Purchasing Content. Since VIP is Unlocking Difficulties is no longer an exclusive perk for VIPs, the Purchasing of Content shouldn't be exclusive to Premiums anymore.

I don't see VIPs getting a permanent sales discount, because it will have to stack with any other discount offered. And I just don't see the current mind set of Turbine allowing that to happen. I don't see +1 Loot or anything similar being given to VIPs since that would be considered an in-game mechanic advantage to VIPs and that's what Premiums threw a fit about with the Bravery Bonus. Allowing VIPs to start at level 4 if they have Veteran Status and TR, although to hear people on the forums TRs a minority (even though when I run around in public areas about 50% of the people have wings). I hear people mentioning giving VIPs armor kits or hair dyes/styles for a steep discount or free, but I don't see that as great of a perk. I also heard people mention about giving VIPs free Guest Passes, but that's more a perk for Premiums (again) and every single Guest Pass that I've gotten for free in the lottery have been eventually (after holding on to them for months) trashed because I couldn't give them away.

smatt
09-11-2011, 02:24 AM
I have to agree with Ungood about allowing VIPs the ability to buy content. Prior to Update 11, there were two things that really separated VIP from Premium: Unlocking Difficulties and Purchasing Content. Since VIP is Unlocking Difficulties is no longer an exclusive perk for VIPs, the Purchasing of Content shouldn't be exclusive to Premiums anymore.

I don't see VIPs getting a permanent sales discount, because it will have to stack with any other discount offered. And I just don't see the current mind set of Turbine allowing that to happen. I don't see +1 Loot or anything similar being given to VIPs since that would be considered an in-game mechanic advantage to VIPs and that's what Premiums threw a fit about with the Bravery Bonus. Allowing VIPs to start at level 4 if they have Veteran Status and TR, although to hear people on the forums TRs a minority (even though when I run around in public areas about 50% of the people have wings). I hear people mentioning giving VIPs armor kits or hair dyes/styles for a steep discount or free, but I don't see that as great of a perk. I also heard people mention about giving VIPs free Guest Passes, but that's more a perk for Premiums (again) and every single Guest Pass that I've gotten for free in the lottery have been eventually (after holding on to them for months) trashed because I couldn't give them away.


The only facotrs involved would be if giving VIPs 20% off all store sales would increase store sales to that group more than 20%, if it did it would be a win for Turbine. I bet it would, by a decent margin. VIP's = Win Turbine =Win.
The other factor would behow many VIP's it would encrouage to use that discount to buy all the content and go Premium.... Some sure...

Of course it's a gues on my part... But I think I'm right.... :D

learst
09-11-2011, 02:56 AM
While this perk definitely is not a bad one (trust me ive seen stinkers) The only true perk id like and would pay extra for is the luxury of never having to ever use the store for unlocking new things. If it means my sub jumps up 5 more dollars so be it, but thats what I was mainly paying a sub for in the first place.

Id definitely use the 20 percent specially since I love cosmetic stuff but honestly all I want is to know what price I have to pay each month if needed to never ever have to worry about unlocking a darn thing that was the thing keeping me at subscriber level and I fear with this new update they are trying to find a way around that :(


We get this. This is the basis behind ViP. It's just that Turbine found a sneaky way to charge us for a class.

I agree with Kalari. That's the reason I went VIP - I don't want to worry bout watching for sales, waiting for the right time to buy something, and feeling bad when I missed a sale or bought something for too much. Not to mention the patience of waiting for sales and missing out on certain adventure packs.

While I don't particularly feel upset about the whole Artificer thing, since it's a favour class (please, no argument bout the semantics of it). I would prefer if Turbine eliminate the Favour-tier class. Just make classes either Free or Premium. If that means charging more for VIP, I wouldn't mind an extra $1-2 dollars, or at most just cut out the discounts and make all VIP costs the regular $15.

Edit:
And on-topic, signed to the OP. But I do think 20% is a bit much, maybe 10% would be good enough. :)

I also like another suggestion, just to increase the TP given. Maybe 1000 TP is too much, I think 750 TP would be adequate and satisfactory for most people.

Feithlin
09-11-2011, 03:45 AM
(I post this in other thread)

My idea for additional perk for VIP:

Loyalty BONUS TP:


Very nice idea, which fits perfectly with Turbine's benefit from VIP: a regular income to should be kept as regular as possible.

Requiro
09-11-2011, 01:34 PM
Not a bad idea, but the basis of my idea is that it doesn't cost Turbine revenue. <snip>

With your idea, Turbine lose much more then 20%:
- from VIPs itself
- from Premiums that go VIP for one month only for that discount.


Very nice idea, which fits perfectly with Turbine's benefit from VIP: a regular income to should be kept as regular as possible.

Exactly. That bonus should be counterbalance for long term Premium users.

For now if you plan play this game longer then year, you lose less money with Premium. That is obviously fact (you can calculate this yourself).

And that feeling that you are VIP and with every month you get more and more :)

smatt
09-11-2011, 08:09 PM
With your idea, Turbine lose much more then 20%:
- from VIPs itself
- from Premiums that go VIP for one month only for that discount.



Exactly. That bonus should be counterbalance for long term Premium users.

For now if you plan play this game longer then year, you lose less money with Premium. That is obviously fact (you can calculate this yourself).

And that feeling that you are VIP and with every month you get more and more :)


You are correct, so you adjust it so that the discount applies after 6 months, while your loyalty idea also seems a good starting point.

What is clear is that VIP isn't so much VIP.... Instead of "Very Important Person(s)" It's "Very Important Peons" ... Or suckers, or loyal customers deficated on....

I like the game a lot, playerd for newr on 5 years now non-stop.. Paid that monthly sub allt hat time non-stop... Just as many others ahve, and yet it seems the Prems (I'm not blaming the players) are being treated like kings compared to the LOYAL longtime Turbine customers.

Eso
09-12-2011, 03:08 AM
20% ? nah OPP.. Maybe 5% .. i dont want see vips drink SP pots like water each raid

Requiro
09-12-2011, 06:53 AM
<snip>

I like the game a lot, playerd for newr on 5 years now non-stop.. <snip>

So with my ideas you will get 17% discount and about 1000 TP each month. Fair enough for me, for so long p(l)aying time.

And you will know that in every other month that bonus will be bigger (so you won’t go for Premium so easily ;) ).

smatt
09-12-2011, 07:55 AM
So with my ideas you will get 17% discount and about 1000 TP each month. Fair enough for me, for so long p(l)aying time.

And you will know that in every other month that bonus will be bigger (so you won’t go for Premium so easily ;) ).


BUT, here's the issue that I see with your idea, from Turbine's POV. I was trying to find a way that the custumers win and Turbine wins. Clearly it would need osme tweaking, my idea that is. Your ide only rewards customers and there is no possible upside for Turbine, other than the possibly customer retention. They won't sell any more more points with the additonal free points and the discount. That was he reason I was staying away from more free points for VIP. Perhaps havign a tiered discount structure as you propose depening on the length of VIP.

Requiro
09-12-2011, 08:40 AM
BUT, here's the issue that I see with your idea, from Turbine's POV. I was trying to find a way that the custumers win and Turbine wins. Clearly it would need osme tweaking, my idea that is. Your ide only rewards customers and there is no possible upside for Turbine, other than the possibly customer retention. They won't sell any more more points with the additonal free points and the discount. That was he reason I was staying away from more free points for VIP. Perhaps havign a tiered discount structure as you propose depening on the length of VIP.

Turbine win every time when VIP change mind to go Premium, and remain VIP :)

If Turbine what earn more cash they need 3 things:

Static revenue: VIP improvements. IMO my proposal is very good solution - this will keep VIP still playing and paying, because of fear that they lose their bonus and perks. My loyalty program (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4057421&postcount=21)
Dynamic revenue: New content, class, race ect ect. With that Premium can spend some cash on it. From this one Turbine get most profit (probably), but on the other hand this profit is unpredictable. (That's why they need VIPs). This is also work for VIP because they can experience new adventures. Turbine concentrate mostly on this.
New and Unknown revenue: Made game more attractive for new players. New happy client is p(l)aying client. Boring client leave this game for another MMO. My advice here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4055178&postcount=20)


Of course my Loyalty program is just suggestion. It need some adjustment. But idea remain.

Any static discounts will not fulfill VIP dements. After some time, 10% discount probably will not be enough. Individual, loyalty bonus is much more acceptable in psychological way (IMO). It’s your own bonus, that you must care about (constant pay for it). And it grown all the time :)

And if you look closely additional TP is my proposal is a very small amount. After 5 year you get only double TP point. But... this is still you own bonus. You work (pay) for it. So you will miss it when you decide go Premium or leave the game.

fandutian
09-12-2011, 06:45 PM
rather then giving discount.. what about giving a selection of free cash shop item every week? like 10 rest shrine etc..make a list like quest reward so vip can choose what they like..