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Xenostrata
08-31-2011, 11:56 AM
Not exactly a new player, but I've been playing casters for so long that I have no idea how some of this stuff works.

1) DR in crits - if fighting a DR 15/good (or anything else) monster with a non-DR breaking weapon that has x2 crits, would the DR block 30 points from the crit (damage rolled, DR subtracted, crit multiplied in) or just 15 points (damage rolled, crit multiplied in, DR subtracted)?

2) Which of the following stack (I know that the prereqs for some make other impossible, so no need to tell me that the l20 Monk feat doesn't stack with the FvS capstone).
Items (axeblock, spearblock, invulnerability, etc.)
Docent of Defiance proc
Barbarian (levels and enhancements)
Warforged (Adamantine Body and enhancements)
Monk Earth Stance
Monk Perfect Self
FvS capstone
Stoneskin
Angelskin
Ironskin Chant
Adamantine Armor

I know that most or all of these don't stack, but I was under the impression that the FvS WF capstone stacks with WF DR, and was hoping that Earth Stance DR would stack with a monk's Perfect Self feat (otherwise, what would be the point?). Also, does the DoD proc stack with everything?

The_Brave2
08-31-2011, 12:05 PM
Not exactly a new player, but I've been playing casters for so long that I have no idea how some of this stuff works.

1) DR in crits - if fighting a DR 15/good (or anything else) monster with a non-DR breaking weapon that has x2 crits, would the DR block 30 points from the crit (damage rolled, DR subtracted, crit multiplied in) or just 15 points (damage rolled, crit multiplied in, DR subtracted)?

DR is just strait DR, meaning in the scenario you suggest that only 15 would be resisted in all circumstances, it is the same as elemental resistances.


2) Which of the following stack (I know that the prereqs for some make other impossible, so no need to tell me that the l20 Monk feat doesn't stack with the FvS capstone).
Items (axeblock, spearblock, invulnerability, etc.)
Docent of Defiance proc
Barbarian (levels and enhancements)
Warforged (Adamantine Body and enhancements)
Monk Earth Stance
Monk Perfect Self
FvS capstone
Stoneskin
Angelskin
Ironskin Chant
Adamantine Armor


These are the same DR Type and will never stack:

Angelskin
Ironskin
Stoneskin
Invulnerability/Spearblock Exc.



These Will stack:


FVS Capstone - (Does not stack with Stoneskin)
WF Enhancements
Adamantine Body


I Included DR sets that would be important to FVS, However apparently I know nothing about Barbarian DR :D

ReaperAlexEU
08-31-2011, 12:09 PM
a critl will still have the same 15 DR to push past. thats why a TWF based char can get better results with a 2-handed weapon if they cant bypass DR. instead of spreading their damage between 2 weapons and having to bypass DR twice, they lump it all into one hit to really punch through. when TWF you get 1x STR bonus on your main hand, and 0.5x STR bonus ofn your off hand for a total of 1.5x STR bonus. when HF you get 1.5x your STR bonus, so vs DR thats more damage done after the DR has been taken off. also of note is power attack is 5 for 1-handed and 10 for 2-handed.

as for your DR, for straight DR i don't know of any that stacks off the top of my head, the wiki might have a bit of info on that. what normally happens is the highest applicable DR applies, so if the mobs get past 1 source then the next best takes over. sorry i cant give a more precise answer

you can stack shield blocking DR with regular DR, that works a treat.

dkyle
08-31-2011, 12:11 PM
1) DR in crits - if fighting a DR 15/good (or anything else) monster with a non-DR breaking weapon that has x2 crits, would the DR block 30 points from the crit (damage rolled, DR subtracted, crit multiplied in) or just 15 points (damage rolled, crit multiplied in, DR subtracted)?

15. DR is applied as the damage is being applied, after all additions/multiplications to the damage have been done.


2) Which of the following stack (I know that the prereqs for some make other impossible, so no need to tell me that the l20 Monk feat doesn't stack with the FvS capstone).

DR does not stack, except the active DR from blocking, which stacks with all passive DR.

The only thing that kind of stacks is the WF DR/Adamantine feats/enhancements and FvS DR/Adamantine capstone, because the WF feats/enhancements specifically say that they increase existing forms of DR/Adamantine. So the only "stacking" is when DR is explictly increased by something else.

Earth Stance DR does not stack with Perfect Self DR (yeah, what's the point, exactly, but you do still get the +4 CON and +1 crit multiplier on 19 and 20). DoD proc does not stack with anything (except active blocking), but it's higher than any other source of passive DR.

DR does apply in parallel, so if you have DR 10/Epic and DR 8/-, then something could bypass the DR/Epic, but not the DR/-, and then you'd take 8 less damage. Most things don't bypass DR/Epic, so do 10 less damage.

Letrii
08-31-2011, 12:12 PM
DR is just strait TR, meaning in the scenario you suggest that only 15 would be resisted in all circumstances, it is the same as elemental resistances.





ftfy

No need to confuse him. Spell resistance is completely different than resist to element.

The_Brave2
08-31-2011, 12:13 PM
ftfy

No need to confuse him. Spell resistance is completely different than resist to element.

Spell resistance != Elemental Resistance.

I gave him an example that a long time sorc will understand.

dkyle
08-31-2011, 12:14 PM
These Will stack:


DoD
Barbarian levels and enhancements (does not stack with Stoneskin - Higher will apply)
Warforged Enhancements
Adamantine body

There is no stacking there, except the WF Enhancements adding to the Adamantine body. DoD and Barb DR does not stack, and that DR/- does not stack with WF DR/Adamantine.

These DRs do apply in parallel, but that isn't stacking.


These are the same DR Type and will never stack:

Type has nothing to do with it. Unlike other bonuses, DR doesn't stack, even with different types.

dkyle
08-31-2011, 12:16 PM
Spell resistance != Elemental Resistance.

I gave him an example that a long time sorc will understand.

Spell resistance is nothing like DR. It's more like AC.

Elemental Resistance is a lot like DR.

Your example is very confusing.

Xenostrata
08-31-2011, 12:16 PM
ftfy

No need to confuse him. Spell resistance is completely different than resist to element.

Believe or not, I was smart enough to figure it out :P

Brave: Are you sure barbarian DR and warforged DR stack? that was one of the ones I was sure didn't.

budalic
08-31-2011, 12:17 PM
To avoid confusion, only your highest DR gets applied.

If you are lvl 20 FvS with dr 10/silver; and you wear epic cavalry plate, tier 3 (dr 5/chaotic); if you get hit by steel weapon, you reduce damage by 10. If you get hit by steel weapon that is chaotic aligned, you still reduce damage by 10. If you get hit by silver weapon, you reduce damage by 5. If you get hit by silver weapon that's also chaotic aligned, you don't reduce damage at all.

EDIT: Don't see what playing caster has to do with it, however - I main wizard, and have few lower-level alts, yet I find DR rather important.

EDIT: In case it was unclear, DR of same type also doesn't stack - if you wear bloodrage symbiont (DR 5/-) and Docent of Defiance (DR 20/- when it procs), you'll have dr 20/- if Defiance procs, and not 25/-. Only exception to this is shieldblocking.

The_Brave2
08-31-2011, 12:21 PM
There is no stacking there, except the WF Enhancements adding to the Adamantine body. DoD and Barb DR does not stack, and that DR/- does not stack with WF DR/Adamantine.

These DRs do apply in parallel, but that isn't stacking.

Type has nothing to do with it. Unlike other bonuses, DR doesn't stack.

Some DR bonuses DO stack. However I was unaware the Barb was a special case with WF enhancement line, I will edit my post.

The_Brave2
08-31-2011, 12:21 PM
Spell resistance is nothing like DR. It's more like AC.

Elemental Resistance is a lot like DR.

Your example is very confusing.

I do not say spell resistance in my post, i Say elemental Resistance, how is this confusing?

Shishizaru
08-31-2011, 12:23 PM
To avoid confusion, only your highest DR gets applied.

If you are lvl 20 FvS with dr 10/silver; and you wear epic cavalry plate, tier 3 (dr 5/chaotic); if you get hit by steel weapon, you reduce damage by 10. If you get hit by steel weapon that is chaotic aligned, you still reduce damage by 10. If you get hit by silver weapon, you reduce damage by 5. If you get hit by silver weapon that's also chaotic aligned, you don't reduce damage at all.

EDIT: Don't see what playing caster has to do with it, however - I main wizard, and have few lower-level alts, yet I find DR rather important.

Since your intention was to avoid confusion, it might be better if you didn't use the FvS capstone in your example. As has been stated before, the FvS capstone CAN stack. Specifically, if you are WF, the capstone will stack with existing DR/Adamantine.

dkyle
08-31-2011, 12:23 PM
Some DR bonuses DO stack. However I was unaware the Barb was a special case with WF enhancement line, I will edit my post.

No, passive DR never stacks. The only stacking DR is active blocking DR.

It's just that some feats/enhancements specifically say that they increase DR, if it already exists. But that's not really stacking. It's a specifically stated increase.

Barb and WF DR is not a "special case". It's the default.

WF DR increasing FvS capstone DR, which looks like it's stacking, is a special case.

Letrii
08-31-2011, 12:24 PM
I do not say spell resistance in my post, i Say elemental Resistance, how is this confusing?

You said spell resistances, I changed it to elemental resistances.

budalic
08-31-2011, 12:25 PM
Since your intention was to avoid confusion, it might be better if you didn't use the FvS capstone in your example. As has been stated before, the FvS capstone CAN stack. Specifically, if you are WF, the capstone will stack with existing DR/Adamantine.

Warforged Damage Reduction I: You gain a damage reduction 1/adamantine, or improve your existing damage reduction by 1/adamantine.

It doesn't stack - enhanchment just says that it improves your existing adamantine DR by 1-3.

dkyle
08-31-2011, 12:28 PM
I do not say spell resistance in my post, i Say elemental Resistance, how is this confusing?


DR is just strait DR, meaning in the scenario you suggest that only 15 would be resisted in all circumstances, it is the same as spell resistances.

Emphasis mine.

Perhaps you didn't mean Spell Resistance, but rather resistances from the Resist Energy spell, but as written, it is very confusing.

The_Brave2
08-31-2011, 12:28 PM
No, passive DR never stacks.

But that's not really stacking. It's a specifically stated increase.

Barb and WF DR is not a "special case". It's the default.

WF DR increasing FvS capstone DR, which looks like it's stacking, is a special case.

Regardless of what is considered the 'special case' the point remains the same, it is stacking, or is 10 + 2 != 12? As far as im concerned specifically stated increase means it stacks. :cool:

The_Brave2
08-31-2011, 12:28 PM
You said spell resistances, I changed it to elemental resistances.

My apologies, I failed to look at my OP when I saw you pointing out a problem with it, I was unaware that you edited it. I will change it.

Edit: I need to stop posting things early in the morning, lmao.

Letrii
08-31-2011, 12:29 PM
My apoligies, I failed to look at my OP when I saw you pointing out a problem with it, I was unaware that you edited it. I will change it.

Hence the ftfy, hehe.

The_Brave2
08-31-2011, 12:30 PM
Hence the ftfy, hehe.

I have never seen that abbreviated like that, had to google it real quick, it makes much more sense now :D

dkyle
08-31-2011, 12:32 PM
Regardless of what is considered the 'special case' the point remains the same, it is stacking, or is 10 + 2 != 12? As far as im concerned specifically stated increase means it stacks. :cool:

Specifically stated implies "special case". And something increasing another bonus is not the same as several bonuses stacking with each other. It may arrive at the same result, but it confuses the reason why.

Passive DR does not stack. There are simply some cases where effects that provide passive DR are also capable of increasing existing DR.

Shishizaru
08-31-2011, 12:33 PM
Warforged Damage Reduction I: You gain a damage reduction 1/adamantine, or improve your existing damage reduction by 1/adamantine.

It doesn't stack - enhanchment just says that it improves your existing adamantine DR by 1-3.

For all intents and purposes, that's stacking, but we're arguing semantics. My point was that if your example had been instead:

Fvs Capstone vs WF Adamantine Body, you would be arguably "wrong" to say that "highest applies." What actually happens is you have DR 2/Adamantine granted by the Adamantine Body, which is increased by 10 from the capstone, giving you DR 12/ Adamantine.

This is the reason why I suggested you not use the FvS capstone as your example for "highest applies."

budalic
08-31-2011, 12:41 PM
This is the reason why I suggested you not use the FvS capstone as your example for "highest applies."

I used silver FvS capsone, not addy. And if ability that has 'or increases existing addamantine dr by X' written on it is confusing to somebody, he/she/whatever* shouldn't play DDO... there are some things that are truely hard to grasp.

*Hey, perhaps tri-sexed aliens play DDO. Or herms from Vorkosigan Saga! ... or AIs...