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View Full Version : Zen fisticuffs?



waterboytkd
08-31-2011, 03:49 AM
So here's a quick idea before I go to bed: what would players think if there were a Zen Melee feat that allowed a character to use their Wis mod instead of Str mod for determining their attack bonus with melee attacks?

Maybe it has the same prereqs as Zen Archery. It could be on the monk bonus feat list. It would really help out wis-based monk builds in a way that Weapon Finesse is lacking.

What do people think? Too good? Too meh? Just right? Waste of time? Roll up a sorc/PM?

Tembyr
08-31-2011, 04:08 AM
I think the main problem remains: it is much easier to get your strength higher than your wisdom?

Zerenety
08-31-2011, 04:14 AM
I think the main problem remains: it is much easier to get your strength higher than your wisdom?

Not sustainable at all times. Not every person who plays this want to farm every Strength boosting item there is in this game.

Tembyr
08-31-2011, 04:44 AM
Not sustainable at all times. Not every person who plays this want to farm every Strength boosting item there is in this game.

Yes like me, my monk is finesse =P.

TheDjinnFor
08-31-2011, 05:27 AM
Not sustainable at all times.

Sure it is. For example, the rage spell gives you +2 strength, and can easily be maintained 100% of the time if you want it to be. Yugoloth +2 wisdom potions give a -4 reflex penalty, which is a lot worse than the -4 will penalty that str potions give. Madstone boots give +2 strength just for taking a few hits with them on, although light monks might not like the associated penalties.

All of the above denote 100% sustainable strength buffs and require little to no grind. In addition, there are plenty of temporary strength-boosting effects, and +7 strength equipment is a lot less rare than +7 wisdom equipment is (and the +7 strength versions usually contain more DPS-oriented effects).

Letrii
08-31-2011, 06:08 AM
There is a feat for this in pnp. Intuitive Attack from Book of Exalted Deeds. Limited to simple and natural weapons of your size.

waterboytkd
08-31-2011, 06:13 PM
I think the main problem remains: it is much easier to get your strength higher than your wisdom?

You are absolutely right, of course. But the idea wasn't for a stat that was easier to buff than strength. It was so that monks could stat consolidate, and so that if monks wanted to got Wisdom based (and wisdom is the stat they get class enhancements for), they could still hit their enemies, even at end game.

Then I think of all the Finesse threads, where people are asking for Weapon Finesse to use the higher of Dex or Str to attack AND damage. Personally, I don't think that's OP (mostly because of the state of AC at end game). I think it just opens up the number of build options.

On that note, let's start this thread on fire: what would you say if Zen Striking (or Intuitive Attack, or whatever it gets called) allowed you to use the higher of Wis or Str to attack AND damage?

EustaceTrevelyan
09-01-2011, 01:12 AM
I think the main problem remains: it is much easier to get your strength higher than your wisdom?

Yeah, this is the real reason Finesse is dead. Just raise dex if you want for AC/evasion, but with all the boosts, your endgame str will be higher. Might be ok leveling up tho, till those buffs become available.

Kinerd
09-01-2011, 04:56 PM
It would be terrible for people who want to do melee DPS (monks) but great for people who just want to land hits regardless of how hard they hit (clonks come to mind).

maverik99
02-18-2012, 05:59 PM
Hi hope that INTUITIVE ATTACK, will be in to the feat list of summer expansion....

Many people like me wait this feat.
I have a monk full ac with water stance and maybe with intuitive attack i can take more attack bonus without spent extra points on dex when im levelling...

Please take on consideratin that, Thank you ;)