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View Full Version : Palemasters in form, a healer's lament. (Rearranging party list?)



danotmano1998
08-30-2011, 03:23 PM
Just a quick pet peeve of mine as I run a healer semi-regularly.

Is there any way to make it so you can alter the color of a specific party member's health bar?
As far as I know, this doesn't exist.

Why? one word.. Palemasters.
If their red hp bar was black when they were in form, then I would know at a glance not to try healing them. Or change their class icon to an undead-type looking one?

Alternately, would it be possible to re-arrange the party member list for your screen?
Then a healer could group the melee's, the casters, the squishies...
Even a simple "sort by class" option would be nice.


Just putting out a "I wish.." suggestion. Thanks for reading. :D

DawnofEntropy
08-30-2011, 03:25 PM
/signed
Also for Bladesworn transformation. make it grey for us though.

mute_mayhem
08-30-2011, 03:26 PM
Just press z (default) to examine the wizard, and if you see the pale master icon in their buff bar you know not to heal them.

voodoogroves
08-30-2011, 03:27 PM
I run Snitch on epic just about every day. I start the same, "Snitch, Epic, In progress" and take whoever comes. By the time I get to Craetos I usually have a decent mix of folks and lately, I'm seeing more clerics than FVS.

I'm watching my own health while in form ... but lately I've been happily surprised to seeing harms being tossed my way ;-)

Love the harm!

Maitland
08-30-2011, 03:28 PM
That is....a great idea :D
a big ole /signed

Vellrad
08-30-2011, 03:32 PM
I'm watching my own health while in form ... but lately I've been happily surprised to seeing harms being tossed my way ;-)

Love the harm!

Someone stolen my line!
:O

Seriously, at cap its very easy to learn when someone is in form- you see him/her in form, and you know he/she won't drop it until the end of quest/shrine, with a few exceptions I can't name.
Of course, if something goes wrong, and if form needs to be dropped, you will be informed about it (probably when ashamed PM asks for heal).

Cauthey
08-30-2011, 03:35 PM
/signed!

Purple HP meter for Pale Masters in form? Not only would it be courteous and practical for the party healer, but it would look hella cool! :D

Cauthey
08-30-2011, 03:50 PM
I'm no graphic artist, but even something as simple as this would be really cool to indicate a Pale Master in form:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/the_elf/PaleMasterHPBar.jpg

TempestAlphaOmega
08-30-2011, 03:51 PM
/signed!

Purple HP meter for Pale Masters in form? Not only would it be courteous and practical for the party healer, but it would look hella cool! :D

Speaking as a color perception challanged individual I would prefer black to purple but otherwise a big YES for this.

I would love to be able to manually adjust the order of party members or to be able to flag them (think the team flags that a party leader can set that we already have in place).

Basically some tool to help me identify who to heal without spending more than a glance out of my periphreal vision as when I am healing it's never the only thing I am doing.



Even on my FvSs I always find a spot for some type of palemaster (in form) healing, just wish the targeting/range was the same as the healing spells(or am I imagining that it is different).

Vellrad
08-30-2011, 03:52 PM
I'm no graphic artist, but even something as simple as this would be really cool to indicate a Pale Master in form:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/the_elf/PaleMasterHPBar.jpg

Nah, this is more pink than purple.
This should be that evil-epic shade of purple, like on PM slas/aura.

SirValentine
08-30-2011, 03:52 PM
Is there any way to make it so you can alter the color of a specific party member's health bar?
As far as I know, this doesn't exist.

Why? one word.. Palemasters.
If their red hp bar was black when they were in form, then I would know at a glance not to try healing them. Or change their class icon to an undead-type looking one?


Two solutions:

1. Don't heal wizards. Period. At all. Either they are Warforged, or Palemasters, or have enough UMD to use Heal scrolls. In any of those 3 cases, they can heal themselves. (Do people roll non-WF non-PM non-UMD-using Wizards?)

2. Carry Harm (or an Inflict). Heals those Lich-formed folks just fine. Of course this option doesn't help with the problem of identifying the undead in the first place. So:

2, section b. Ask Wizards if they will be in undead form, or look at them and see the glowing eyes and other undead characteristics. This does require slightly more effort on your part.

I usually use a mix of those two approaches, myself.



Alternately, would it be possible to re-arrange the party member list for your screen?


SIGNED! Let me rearrange the party order, please!


Edit: Neg rep for that, really? Thanks, there, stealth neg-repper. You have no sense of humor, or you didn't like my helpful advice to carry the Harm spell to heal PMs or that you should ASK if they'll be in form?

Vellrad
08-30-2011, 03:54 PM
Two solutions:

1. Don't heal wizards. Period. At all. Either they are Warforged, or Palemasters, or have enough UMD to use Heal scrolls. In any of those 3 cases, they can heal themselves. (Do people roll non-WF non-PM non-UMD-using Wizards?)!

This is as good hint as no buffs for anyopne, get clickies for everything and stop obthering me.

SirValentine
08-30-2011, 03:55 PM
Even on my FvSs I always find a spot for some type of palemaster (in form) healing, just wish the targeting/range was the same as the healing spells(or am I imagining that it is different).


Not imagining it. You have to be facing your target for Inflict/Harm, unlike Cure/Heal.

Also, the single-person Inflict spells are extremely short-range. That's not a problem with Harm or Mass Inflict, though.

Cauthey
08-30-2011, 03:55 PM
Speaking as a color perception challanged individual I would prefer black to purple but otherwise a big YES for this.

Definitely! Yes...I realize that my MSPaint handy work above probably isn't very color-challenged friendly. That's something that I'll leave for better skilled and more knowledgable graphic artists than I.

Still, I love the idea. And Tempest, I wish you could distinguish the colors in the image above. Because personally, I think that it looks really cool like that. :D

SirValentine
08-30-2011, 03:57 PM
This is as good hint as no buffs for anyopne, get clickies for everything and stop obthering me.

I'm glad someone appreciates my sense of humor.

Cauthey
08-30-2011, 04:03 PM
Right, the pink was no good. Here's a quick second effort that is more of a purple (still, likely, no good for color-challenged (but cool looking!! :D )):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/the_elf/PaleMasterHPBar2.jpg

FrozenNova
08-30-2011, 04:11 PM
Wizards who make the dubious choice of being a fleshy archmage with no form of functional self healing ought to alert the healer as to such. Assume otherwise all wizards can self heal, since any conventional player will.

Enoach
08-30-2011, 04:11 PM
however, until we get a mechanic like this it is actually up to 2 members of the party to discuss.


The Palemaster - Don't assume The cleric will know
The Primary Healer (Cleric/FvS/Bard/Other) - Ask the Wizard if you are unsure


With an open line of communication Healers and PMs can exist in harmony :).

Personally I would prefer the "Invalid Target" like you get if you try to cast Reconstruct on a Fleshy vs it casting the Heal/Cure on me.

danotmano1998
08-30-2011, 04:12 PM
Two solutions:

1. Don't heal wizards. Period. At all. Either they are Warforged, or Palemasters, or have enough UMD to use Heal scrolls. In any of those 3 cases, they can heal themselves. (Do people roll non-WF non-PM non-UMD-using Wizards?)

2. Carry Harm (or an Inflict). Heals those Lich-formed folks just fine. Of course this option doesn't help with the problem of identifying the undead in the first place. So:

2, section b. Ask Wizards if they will be in undead form, or look at them and see the glowing eyes and other undead characteristics. This does require slightly more effort on your part.

I usually use a mix of those two approaches, myself.

1. Lol.. No, I don't roll that way as a healer. If I'm in a group as a healer and there's someone in need of healing, then I heal them. Simple as that. I don't discriminate. Sure, there are lots of folks that can self heal. Doesn't mean they don't appreciate a well timed life-saver. Warforged need love too, you know!

2. I do carry Harm, but that goes back to the identifying question.

Yes, I know there are a lot of way to tell if a person is a palemaster by examining them, checking their bio's, chatting with them, writing yourself sticky notes, etc..

I'm not debating that, I'm just asking if it's feasible to make them easily identified when the kobold excrement hits the airship. :D
(What? They told you they would never forget, didn't they? What did you think they did with their spare time when they're not learning to defy gravity or going warforged tipping?)

Jaid314
08-30-2011, 04:12 PM
I run Snitch on epic just about every day. I start the same, "Snitch, Epic, In progress" and take whoever comes. By the time I get to Craetos I usually have a decent mix of folks and lately, I'm seeing more clerics than FVS.

I'm watching my own health while in form ... but lately I've been happily surprised to seeing harms being tossed my way ;-)

Love the harm!

how do you know he wasn't just mad at you and trying to kill you? ^^

Phidius
08-30-2011, 04:13 PM
I agree that it would be helpful to be able to see at a glance who isn't able to be healed, but I'm not sure I like the suggested change.

1. My best friend (who made me start playing DDO) is color-blind, and even though he doesn't play anymore, I bet others still do.

2. I'm nervous that this will open a flood gate... then we'd be asking for color coding for healing-cursed, and another for those who are out of range, and another for those that are around the corner, etc...

My way of dealing with this is to cast Mass Cures/Bursts centered on me, and if they're undead/bladesworn/healing-cursed/out-of-range/behind-a-wall/etc... they can re-evaluate their playing choices.

Unless, of course, I've accepted the assignment to keep them healed, in which case I keep an eye on them.

Edit: I do like the idea of being able to re-arrange the party list in my own UI.

sweez
08-30-2011, 04:13 PM
Wizards who make the dubious choice of being a fleshy archmage with no form of functional self healing ought to alert the healer as to such. Assume otherwise all wizards can self heal, since any conventional player will.

Change 'conventional' to 'competent'.

jandhaer
08-30-2011, 04:14 PM
Just a quick pet peeve of mine as I run a healer semi-regularly.

Is there any way to make it so you can alter the color of a specific party member's health bar?
As far as I know, this doesn't exist.

Why? one word.. Palemasters.
If their red hp bar was black when they were in form, then I would know at a glance not to try healing them. Or change their class icon to an undead-type looking one?

Alternately, would it be possible to re-arrange the party member list for your screen?
Then a healer could group the melee's, the casters, the squishies...
Even a simple "sort by class" option would be nice.


Just putting out a "I wish.." suggestion. Thanks for reading. :D

When I run as a healer I ignore ALL arcanes if they are not a Warforge or a Palemaster its their fault they are dead not mine.

Enoach
08-30-2011, 04:17 PM
Personally I like to stand next to PMs and Turn Undead - believe me I've had more then one jump. Its almost as much fun as sneaking up and static shocking someone behind the ear.

protokon
08-30-2011, 04:17 PM
Simple, yet huge improvement to the interface. just add an option under the graphic options to customize the color of undead party members and we are golden.

I approve this.

Requiro
08-30-2011, 04:22 PM
/signed

Cauthey
08-30-2011, 04:22 PM
Sorry, this is fun! :p Perhaps this will be better for color challenged:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/the_elf/PaleMasterHPBar3.jpg

Cauthey
08-30-2011, 04:24 PM
Wizards who make the dubious choice of being a fleshy archmage with no form of functional self healing ought to alert the healer as to such. Assume otherwise all wizards can self heal, since any conventional player will.

I try to make a point to the parties that I run in that I'm in undead form. I consider it just common courtesy. I don't want a healer wasting SPs on me.

Vellrad
08-30-2011, 04:26 PM
When I run as a healer I ignore ALL arcanes if they are not a Warforge or a Palemaster its their fault they are dead not mine.

So why they accept you in their groups?

MownDown
08-30-2011, 04:31 PM
This is as good hint as no buffs for anyopne, get clickies for everything and stop obthering me.

You mean there are people out there that buff others, and also those out there that dont have clickies?!?! SHAME ON YOU PPL!

whomhead
08-30-2011, 04:37 PM
I like the idea! But instead of changing the color of the HP bar, just give them the dead player "skull" icon. If this is accompanied with the presence of a HP bar, then you'll know they're in form and not actually the out-of-HP type of dead.

jortann
08-30-2011, 05:46 PM
1. Don't heal wizards. Period. At all. Either they are Warforged, or Palemasters, or have enough UMD to use Heal scrolls. In any of those 3 cases, they can heal themselves. (Do people roll non-WF non-PM non-UMD-using Wizards?)

And I suppose you tell the Barbarians and everyone else to just drink pots as well. And if they ask for a heal you can just tell them, "don't bother me for heals I'm piking"

But lets not derail this thread with nonsense because there is a lot of solid good ideas in here. My idea would be to have a little floaty skull over a palemasters health bar. That would take care of the color blind problem and would look cool at the same time.

Get to it DEVS... this is a good idea.

..

danotmano1998
08-31-2011, 09:42 AM
Any more thoughts on making this so?

1. Make some sort of noticeable change in the party bar for palemasters in form.
(Whether it be a color, icon, or user customizable)

2. Allow users to rearrange party members on their screen how they choose.
(Even a very simple "Sort by class" button would be a huge improvement.)

Chette
08-31-2011, 10:18 AM
This would be a great idea. I know that you can examine a wizard to check if they are in form, but you shouldn't have to do that after every rest, or if they die and are rezzed, etc. It can be very difficult to remember if in a raid with multiple wizards. I ran an epic claw the other day with a wizard and half the time he went into form and half the time after shrining he didn't. It was REALLY annoying as he would never ask for heals, or let me know whether he was healable or not.

EatSmart
08-31-2011, 10:35 AM
When i'm pugging I usually toss a harm at each of the wizzies near the start of the raid if i'm unsure. If they're not in necro you'll get a nice clear "invalid target" message and wont lose your sp. I find most arcanes tend to stay in necro if they're going to go necro in a raid.

For clerics, the radiant aura is a convenient way to spot necros. (its also nice for giving you a feel of what the party healing amp is like)

clkpacker
08-31-2011, 10:50 AM
Two solutions:

1. Don't heal wizards. Period. At all. Either they are Warforged, or Palemasters, or have enough UMD to use Heal scrolls. In any of those 3 cases, they can heal themselves. (Do people roll non-WF non-PM non-UMD-using Wizards?)

2. Carry Harm (or an Inflict). Heals those Lich-formed folks just fine. Of course this option doesn't help with the problem of identifying the undead in the first place. So:

2, section b. Ask Wizards if they will be in undead form, or look at them and see the glowing eyes and other undead characteristics. This does require slightly more effort on your part.
All good advice; my caveat to this is that generally the only time I need to worry about the wizard/PM in the group is when something is going badly wrong in the quest/raid we're in. In those sorts of panic situations, locating the wizard and trying to visually ascertain what form they're in, or trying to get a word in on a busy voice chat, becomes a problem. A differently-colored HP bar would be very useful in those situations.

Also, I do wish you didn't having to be facing the target to cast Harm. I've failed so many Harms that way...

Chette
08-31-2011, 11:00 AM
When I run as a healer I ignore ALL arcanes if they are not a Warforge or a Palemaster its their fault they are dead not mine.

Not sure I agree with this. I prefer a human sorcs in my party over WF sorcs as they're more likely to be a versatile caster. WF is the easy button for sorcs, but since you'll probably take quicken if you want to reliably reconstruct you're now two feats behind an already feat starved human sorc. I've found most WF sorcs to be behind their human counterparts when it comes to DC casting, and as such, I'd usually rather take the human, even if it means I have to heal them from time to time (most can scroll themselves though, so that's not even a big deal).

NecroKovy
08-31-2011, 11:02 AM
Perhaps instead of changing the color of the healthbar, change the color of the book that represents the Wizard Class instead? To a dark grey or purple? Have a letter 'P' scripted into the book icon while in form?

Oops, similar ideas mentioned already, that'll learn me to skim a bit! ;)

ainmosni
08-31-2011, 11:27 AM
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x7/minkomadnes/undead.jpg

i love when this happens

my cleric carries harm. none of my other toons do

plus i wanted to play around with the screenshot lol

Kalari
08-31-2011, 11:34 AM
I like the idea of a bar to tell negative hp for a pale master (as a player who plays one and a healer) but I like having harm on my cleric just for this purpose and recently found a way for my favored soul to carry it just in a pinch since most of the PM's im running with get themselves. But the amounts of thanks I get from those still learning the forms and their abilities has won me over to keeping harm plus since most of my divines are spell cast spec its the added bonus of beating up trash with it to :)

Lithic
08-31-2011, 11:43 AM
I wonder if it would be easier to just give pale masters in undead form the icon and black HP bar that you get when you are dead.

Cobra13e
08-31-2011, 11:46 AM
/signed

Not a healer or a PM, customization is a great idea!

redwolf51
08-31-2011, 04:33 PM
Two solutions:

1. Don't heal wizards. Period. At all. Either they are Warforged, or Palemasters, or have enough UMD to use Heal scrolls. In any of those 3 cases, they can heal themselves. (Do people roll non-WF non-PM non-UMD-using Wizards?)

2. Carry Harm (or an Inflict). Heals those Lich-formed folks just fine. Of course this option doesn't help with the problem of identifying the undead in the first place. So:

2, section b. Ask Wizards if they will be in undead form, or look at them and see the glowing eyes and other undead characteristics. This does require slightly more effort on your part.

I usually use a mix of those two approaches, myself.



SIGNED! Let me rearrange the party order, please!


Edit: Neg rep for that, really? Thanks, there, stealth neg-repper. You have no sense of humor, or you didn't like my helpful advice to carry the Harm spell to heal PMs or that you should ASK if they'll be in form?

Non-wf,Pm, or umd'ed and yes i know that sounded gimp

Cauthey
09-21-2011, 11:12 AM
I wonder if it would be easier to just give pale masters in undead form the icon and black HP bar that you get when you are dead.

I believe that healers would be happy to see any sort of indicator, even simple without flourish.

But...flourish makes the world go around. :D

Alabore
09-21-2011, 12:09 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/the_elf/PaleMasterHPBar.jpg
Ah, so that's what healthbars used to look, before U11.

...

So pretty...