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View Full Version : 'Simple' Solution for Bravery/Elite unlocks



Arel
08-23-2011, 11:01 AM
Hey all, I know there's already a thousand and one other discussions on this, but I wanted to make sure this didn't get lost in the crowd, because I think it's a good idea, and I haven't seen it myself (sorry if it's been put forward before). And it's fairly simple, at least from an idea standpoint:

Don't reset difficulty access when you TR.

That's it. A TR'ed character would have access to the same difficulties he/she had before TR'ing. Favor would, ideally, still be reset.

For example, if you had, say, completed The Pit on hard in your previous life or lives, your new life would be able to access it on elite when he/she got to the correct level. But if they had never done any of the Red Fens, those quests would all still only be accessible on Normal unless the player is a VIP (or there's someone else in the party that can open it, of course).

kafrielveddicus
08-23-2011, 11:08 AM
Actually I am VIP and I have no issue with TR's having access to all settings regardless of history, if a premium or f2p has TR'd, that is enough effort to allow that toon access!!

Gremmlynn
08-23-2011, 04:07 PM
While this seems a good idea for both premiums and VIPs (as well as f2p for that matter), I don't see how it is for Turbine. Add an account unlock option to retain opening status upon TRing for 995 TP or some such and it looks like a winner for everybody (well not us froobs so much, but that's to be expected).

danotmano1998
08-23-2011, 04:15 PM
Best suggestion I've seen by far.
I'm vip and I approve wholeheartedly!
Granted, it doesn't fit into the "theme" of True Resurrection, but so what?
This way everyone can enjoy the new bonuses to xp. And I really don't see a downside to this yet. At least, nothing occurs to me offhand.

/signed

Asketes
08-23-2011, 04:21 PM
I REALLY like this idea. I am VIP and have been feeling a dwindling sense of VIP benefits, BUT I feel this is very very fair for players on alternative payment plans.

+1 Rep

Tenchi
08-23-2011, 04:28 PM
Data wise, this would require them to create a separate database for Favor and a separate one for unlocked difficulties.

Good suggestion, though I would not know how difficult would this be on Turbine's end.

kafrielveddicus
08-23-2011, 04:35 PM
Data wise, this would require them to create a separate database for Favor and a separate one for unlocked difficulties.

Good suggestion, though I would not know how difficult would this be on Turbine's end.

Not if you just allowed Tr's to go straight to elite whether they have done the quest or not in a past life, just give them VIP status in the sense of quest opening, very simple to do! Although I would also approve a small DDO point cost to unlock this option!

Tenchi
08-23-2011, 04:39 PM
Not if you just allowed Tr's to go straight to elite whether they have done the quest or not in a past life, just give them VIP status in the sense of quest opening, very simple to do! Although I would also approve a small DDO point cost to unlock this option!

Uh huh... and go back to the whole debate on whether or not Elite/Hard unlocks are a VIP privilege and should be kept as such because they paid for the convenience.

This OP's suggestion is a good compromise.

kafrielveddicus
08-23-2011, 04:50 PM
Uh huh... and go back to the whole debate on whether or not Elite/Hard unlocks are a VIP privilege and should be kept as such because they paid for the convenience.

This OP's suggestion is a good compromise.

Actually as mentioned above I am a VIP and I don't mind, I figure those that have a TR have bought a good share of packs and spent a good share of points(cash) on DDO, so if their TR's want to run Elite let them have at it, but any new toon they roll would still have the usually restrictions, ultimately if you think about it anybody that has TR'd likely has a friend or a mutual quest opener that can grant the elite opening anyways.

I don't feel slighted by turbine if they let Premium/F2P Tr's go straight into elite, although it would be cool if they charged another 500 turbine points to unlock this option, i am actually betting that most premiums/f2p already have a stack of store points via favor anyways.

The argument about VIP benefits are still appropriate because there are things only VIP toons can have and they can't be bought by non-VIP players!!!

fyrst.grok
08-23-2011, 04:55 PM
The easy solution is to make it buyable like bankspace buy hard then elite.

Others have suggested to let tr1 open hard tr2 open elite.

Doing it the way the OP suggest will probably create lag, but the idea has merrits. :)

fyrst.grok
08-23-2011, 04:59 PM
snip

The argument about VIP benefits are still appropriate because there are things only VIP toons can have and they can't be bought by non-VIP players!!!

VIP's SHOULD have perks, but this is a gamechanger, not a convinience anymore and that is creating a whole new level of arguing.

kafrielveddicus
08-23-2011, 05:04 PM
Anyways turbine I approve give it to the premium/f2p players on their TR toons only.

Bodic
08-23-2011, 05:06 PM
A fair Idea, but now to dash hopes and dreams

group A has 2+ people all non-TR P2P or F2P

person 1 has a TR 'd toon swaps to TR opens quest person2 hold the instance while person 1 swaps back. Exploit'd w/o exp loss.

Asketes
08-23-2011, 05:06 PM
Alternative:

First TR: You are tougher than you were in your first life, you can now open any dungeon on hard.
Second TR: You have transcended through multiple lives emerging a hardened victor, elite difficulty quests are now open for your destruction!

Mat59765
08-23-2011, 05:16 PM
anyone whos serious about maximizing the xp can dual box a lvl 20 whos done every main quest on elite or ge ta friend whos done it all on elite to sit i nthe party while they run quests anyway so its not too difficult to circumvent the need to do norm and hard first.

Make those guildies who are off soloing epics unlock quests for you :P

Dysmetria
08-23-2011, 05:16 PM
I REALLY like this idea. I am VIP and have been feeling a dwindling sense of VIP benefits, BUT I feel this is very very fair for players on alternative payment plans.Since the game went F2P, VIPs have been given the ability to open dungeons on elite, extra TP for certain months, and soon they will be getting the bravery exp bonus, while their monthly fee dropped from $15 per month to $10 per month.

Meanwhile premiums got the ability to unlock dungeons on hard and elite with an overpriced one-time-use item, and have to pay extra for it. I'm not sure why any VIP would be feeling a "dwindling sense of VIP benefits," is there some other perks that have been added or removed that I have missed?

Asketes
08-23-2011, 05:17 PM
I'm not sure why any VIP would be feeling a "dwindling sense of VIP benefits," is there some other perks that have been added or removed that I have missed?

You missed the part where I advocated that this was a great idea ;)

kafrielveddicus
08-23-2011, 05:18 PM
A fair Idea, but now to dash hopes and dreams

group A has 2+ people all non-TR P2P or F2P

person 1 has a TR 'd toon swaps to TR opens quest person2 hold the instance while person 1 swaps back. Exploit'd w/o exp loss.

Lol, but really dont you think most guilds of premiums and f2p already hold quest openers anyways, this whole open on elite thing is really only applicable for those that are relatively new to the game anyways and does not have any effect over the long run.

I have already seen folks with their guildies acquire 25 turbine points for 100 favor as quick as a player could roll a random toon and run from 9 different quest entrances to acquire the 100 favor required, rinse and repeat(approx. 250 TP an hour). The real folks that are contributing to the pot of gold for turbine are those that make the store purchases for rez cakes or other goodies that are available not the ones who earn points and spend only on packs and unearnable permanent perks such as half orc or warforge, these people are smart enough to have an elite opener(maybe several) in guild, so it is all just a waste of time to prevent those that have TR'd from opening Elites.

Again I am a VIP and dont even TR but why hold others back in this situation, let them enjoy and let them become part of the most active community in the game, it is good for the game to do this.

The Narc

Dolphious
08-23-2011, 05:57 PM
This is a good idea.

Another idea I had would be allow non-VIPs to check a "bravery" option when zoning into a quest on normal for the first time. The quest would run "as if" you were on elite, but you would only get the favor for normal. If people are still concerned that Premiums can now benefit from the higher quest level on hard/elite, make the "bravery" quest at normal level.

Hard to argue Premiums are getting any current VIP-only benefit that way.

fyrst.grok
08-23-2011, 06:35 PM
anyone whos serious about maximizing the xp can dual box a lvl 20 whos done every main quest on elite or ge ta friend whos done it all on elite to sit i nthe party while they run quests anyway so its not too difficult to circumvent the need to do norm and hard first.

Make those guildies who are off soloing epics unlock quests for you :P

Not chains, which will break the bonus every time.



Lol, but really dont you think most guilds of premiums and f2p already hold quest openers anyways, this whole open on elite thing is really only applicable for those that are relatively new to the game anyways and does not have any effect over the long run.

I have already seen folks with their guildies acquire 25 turbine points for 100 favor as quick as a player could roll a random toon and run from 9 different quest entrances to acquire the 100 favor required, rinse and repeat(approx. 250 TP an hour). The real folks that are contributing to the pot of gold for turbine are those that make the store purchases for rez cakes or other goodies that are available not the ones who earn points and spend only on packs and unearnable permanent perks such as half orc or warforge, these people are smart enough to have an elite opener(maybe several) in guild, so it is all just a waste of time to prevent those that have TR'd from opening Elites.

Again I am a VIP and dont even TR but why hold others back in this situation, let them enjoy and let them become part of the most active community in the game, it is good for the game to do this.

The Narc

Again.. If you are premium and have premium friends that doesnt help one bit.. Just look at Deleras, Threnal and Sorrowdusk..
Do you think that we all have one toon flagged for one of each parts to open elite?

It's not really because you need the bonus on a 1st life, but the fact is that we pay, sometimes more than a VIP.
We chose a different payment method and this feels like a punishment for not renting the game in stead.


Since the game went F2P, VIPs have been given the ability to open dungeons on elite, extra TP for certain months, and soon they will be getting the bravery exp bonus, while their monthly fee dropped from $15 per month to $10 per month.

Meanwhile premiums got the ability to unlock dungeons on hard and elite with an overpriced one-time-use item, and have to pay extra for it. I'm not sure why any VIP would be feeling a "dwindling sense of VIP benefits," is there some other perks that have been added or removed that I have missed?

This!

Edit: Missed the last two quotes.

Arel
08-23-2011, 07:01 PM
Data wise, this would require them to create a separate database for Favor and a separate one for unlocked difficulties.

Good suggestion, though I would not know how difficult would this be on Turbine's end.

I forgot to mention that, and it's why I have simple in quotes. I'm not sure how that data is stored on Turbine's end, which might make my idea unfeasible or even impossible without a major overhaul.


A fair Idea, but now to dash hopes and dreams

group A has 2+ people all non-TR P2P or F2P

person 1 has a TR 'd toon swaps to TR opens quest person2 hold the instance while person 1 swaps back. Exploit'd w/o exp loss.

You can already do this anyway, not sure what point you're making here.


Various things

The 'TR = blanket unlocks' idea has already been beaten to death in other threads, which is precisely why I made a new thread for this one. Let's not get sidetracked back to the dead horse, hmm?

Dwane_Diblie
08-23-2011, 08:09 PM
While I am not VIP and I feel that this should be left up to the current VIPs to vote on I doo feel the original idea has merit. It is better that blanket unlocks as it actualy requires you to have atleast done the mission and there for retained some memory of it. If you TR and then buy a new adventure pack why should you have imediat access to Hard or Elite. Leave that to the VIPs as they will get the access to any and all upcomming adventures at higher dificalties before anyone else. This will still make having one in your group vital and much appreciated. This is how I feel about TRs reguardless of the Bravery Bonus.

Bobthesponge
08-23-2011, 08:28 PM
There are already 2 simple ways to unlock elite:

1. Run the quest on normal and then on hard.
2. Pay to become VIP

Why should there be a third?

/notsigned

Dysmetria
08-23-2011, 08:45 PM
There are already 2 simple ways to unlock elite:

1. Run the quest on normal and then on hard.
2. Pay to become VIP

Why should there be a third? There is already a third, purchasing the hard/elite unlockers available in the ddo store.

However they are rediculously overpriced, which is why there are numerous threads like this one suggesting alternatives so that the F2P and Premiums can be eligible for the forthcoming bravery bonus to EXP.

Alexandryte
08-23-2011, 09:04 PM
I see no problem with this or the TR1= access to hard, TR2+=access to elite.

TRing is the only real point where the exp not gained because you could not access the bravery bonus would hurt.

MRH
08-23-2011, 09:10 PM
yes easy implementation is :

life 2 = hard unlock

life 3 = elite unlock


there you have the easy answer , nobody gets it on their 1st life, so its all fair.

wax_on_wax_off
08-23-2011, 09:49 PM
Found it:



A better, and nearly equivalent, solution is to not reset one's ability to open higher difficulties upon TR. That is to say, if you ran a quest on normal last life, you can still unlock hard after TR. If you ran hard or elite last life, you can unlock elite now.

This unfortunately may be more difficult to implement. It also has the downside of reducing the impact of the VIP "open elite" perk.

-Kernal

It's harder to implement for sure, but even if it was easy, it's still too restrictive (imho).

Personally, I'd be totally fine with this solution.

However, I think from Turbines POV it would be too easy of a hurdle for players to get over and would greatly reduce the incentive for being VIP.