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Aesop
08-22-2011, 05:29 AM
I was looking over the Artificer Enhancements and saw the Energy of Creation line. Kinda standard each tier increasing SP by 20. Here is my complaint.

Tier 1
20 SP costs 1 AP = 20SP/AP

Tier 2
40 SP(total) cost 3 AP(total) = 13.3SP/AP

Tier 3
60 SP(total) costs 6 AP(total) = 10SP/AP

Tier 4
80 SP(total) costs 10 AP(total) = 8SP/AP


Anyone else see a problem here? I think they need to reduce the cost of these Enhancements of have them increase much more over the tiers.


1 or 2 AP each tier is fine or at least maintain the cost to AP ratio. The figured that out for the Skill line so I think they should figure this out across the enhancement system. There are other ridiculous costs that the benefits are far outweighed by the cost. I mean how many spells can you cast with 80SP. Does it merit an 10% of all your AP? I don't think so.


Aesop

Aesop
08-22-2011, 06:13 AM
Ok further thought.


The current SP bonuses really leave something to be desired. When the level cap was closer to 10 the extra SP was ... well still not so good. Now it is not worth it really.

so lets expand it out and add some SP.


Rangers Paladin and other 4 spell level classes (if any others exist or ever get introduced)
At class level 4 they would start gaining access to their spell point enhancements.

level 4 20SP Cost 1AP
level 8 +20SP Cost 1AP
level 12 +20SP Cost 1AP
level 16 +20SP Cost 1AP
level 20 +20SP Cost 1AP

total 100SP 5AP

Artificer Bard and other 6 spell level classes that get introduced
They gain SP enhancements starting at 1 and every odd level.

1 20SP Cost 1AP
3 +20SP Cost 1AP
5 +20SP Cost 1AP
etc +20SP Cost 1AP

total lvl 19 200SP Cost 10AP


Wizard Cleric and other 9 spell level classes that exist or get introduced
likewise gain SP enhancement starting at level 1 and every odd level.

1 30SP Cost 1AP
3 +30SP Cost 1AP
5 +30SP Cost 1AP
etc +30SP Cost 1AP

total lvl 19 300SP Cost 10AP

Sorcerers Favored Souls and other Enhanced Spell Pool casters would gain a +50% bonus to those totals for a total of 450SP Costing 10AP at level 19.

Seems more reasonable to me than the current set up

Aesop

Teharahma
08-22-2011, 06:14 AM
Signed.

Gkar
08-22-2011, 06:26 AM
Well I think its deliberate that it works that way. Most enhancements give you less value for each AP spent as you go up in tiers (toughness, improved metamagics, etc)

Now when they changed the damage enhancement lines they went a new way (first tier big benefit, then small equal benefits) and they could do the same with all the lines if they wanted, but I see no reason why the SP line should get that treatment without everything getting a revamp.

Rasczak
08-22-2011, 09:00 AM
The only time I have a real problem with the costs are when they are prerequisites to something else.

That being said, I agree that they should really change the costs as the bonus you gain from ap's spent is not a viable option in most cases. Considering the cost of spells and spell point gain from items it really is an outdated line.

Aesop
08-22-2011, 04:12 PM
Well I think its deliberate that it works that way. Most enhancements give you less value for each AP spent as you go up in tiers (toughness, improved metamagics, etc)

Now when they changed the damage enhancement lines they went a new way (first tier big benefit, then small equal benefits) and they could do the same with all the lines if they wanted, but I see no reason why the SP line should get that treatment without everything getting a revamp.

Yeah I realize that. I also think that it is not a very good system. If we had an infinite (or at least extremely large) pool of resources (ie AP) then I could see the overall benefit of the lines decreasing as you went up... and then only really if they went up higher than 4 or so tiers. At that point you'd have an area with a solid base line and everything after that is just really gravy. The current enhancement system isn't that encompassing.

Here's a game example.

Weapon Focus gets you +1 to hit and costs 1 feat

Weapon Spec gets you +2 Damage costs a feat and has a prerequisite feat that gets you +1 to hit. Greater Weapon Spec gets you an additional +2 damage has a prerequisite of GWF which nets an additional +1 to hit...

So your ratios are still 1 feat to +1 to hit and 1 feat to +2 damage. They at least stay level. The cost to reward ratio for SP and a number of other things in the Enhancement lists are way outta whack. Much of the system could use a cost revamp and new and interesting things should be added in.

Also not the Skill Lines changed as well.

Aesop

Dolphious
08-22-2011, 05:06 PM
It's true that those SP boosting enchantments are pretty unattractive in general.

What if each level also increased the point where echos of power kicked in by 6 (or so) sp?

TheDearLeader
08-22-2011, 05:09 PM
I'd love to see them all be 1 AP each. Hate having to take them at all, but KotC/Spellsinger/Water Savant all dictate them to some degree.

Vellrad
08-22-2011, 05:17 PM
Well, toughness gives 22HP, and mental toughness gives 110SP.
5 times more SP than HP.
I think everything giving SP (feat/AP) should give 5 times more SP than HP (for example 1 tier of toughness AP gives 10HP, 1 tier of mana should give 50SP)