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The_Brave2
08-21-2011, 12:10 AM
Alright, I'm sure this idea has been circulating for awhile, but I would like it to be implemented as a way for hardcore players to have a little fun.

The idea:

The making of a 'tower' system in which a group of 6 face a series of bosses increasing in difficulty
*Shrine after each level
*Exclusion of trash mobs.
*Stages with multiple bosses will be fought at the same time.
*1 day timer will apply each time you Complete the 4th Floor.
*Tokens will be given after stages 4, 8 and 11 and are used to enter stages 5,9 and 12. The reason for this being the time constraints. Gives your team a break, so that they can resume the stages at a later time. The tokens vanish upon use.
*The entirety of the tower will be timed, and completion time will be posted along with what level of the tower that the group completed next to the entrance of the tower, showing the top 10/20 groups with times and level cleared.
*Flagging for the tower would be required, the completion of all the raids with the bosses associated with the tower will be required.
-Quests needed to flag:
-Elite Shroud
-Epic ItD
-Elite ToD
-Elite Gianthold TOR
-Elite GoP
-Elite VoD
-Epic DQ2
-Epic Lord of the Blades

Proposed Tower:

First Level: Cholthulzz - Elite GoP difficulty
Second Level: Arritrikos - Hard shroud difficulty
Third: Sulu - Hard VoD Difficulty
Forth: Goggle Puzzle from Abbot*[Mark of the Tower] Awarded
Token Given
Fifth: Sulu - Elite VoD Difficulty - [Normal VoD Chest] Awarded
Sixth: Horoth - Elite ToD Difficulty - [Mark of the Tower] Awarded
Seventh: Demon from ItD - Epic Difficulty- [Mark of the Tower] Awarded
Eighth: Elite Sulu with Mirror*/Lieutenant* Fight Mechanic [Greater Mark of the Tower] Awarded
Token Given
Ninth: Tor dragons, all three. Killed withinn 20 seconds of eachother - Epic [Epic DA Chest awarded + [Chest with 50% chance of a [Mark of the Tower]]
Tenth: Demon from ItD/Sulu Epic/Hard Difficulty - [Greater Mark of the Tower] Awarded
Eleventh: DQ - Epic Difficulty - [1% +3 Tome chest] Awarded + [Chest with 50% chance of a [Greater Mark of the Tower]
Token Given
Twelfth: Lord of the Blades - Epic Difficulty - [Supreme Mark of the Tower]x2 Awarded
Bonus Level: Goggles/Roid Combo Puzzle* - [5% +3 Tome, 3% +4 Tome Chest] + [SMoT]x2 [GMoT]x2 [MoT]x3 Awarded

Tower Mechanics Overview

*you will enter a door somewhere 1/3 the way up the tower, so the first boss Cholthulzz will drop you down to the lower levels, eventually hitting the bottom where you will find Arritrikos, and fight him at the same time as Cholthulzz. Upon hearing the floors break bosses from the higher levels, bosses flood down to fill the empty floors, at the same time repairing the tower quickly*

*After every 3 Floors there is a 50% chance of spawning 2 Beholders (Epic Von3 Difficulty) With a trap style from Rainbow in the Dark at the shrine. This trap will be disable-able. There will be an optional chest awarded regardless of whether or not you kill the beholders, which will be trash loot along with a 25% chance of the corresponding mark from the tower level that the beholders spawn in.*

*Goggle puzzle will require atleast half of the party to make it across successfully, at which point you can exit that room, climb higher up the outside of the tower (explorer area) and enter the higher level room with the token you have received.

*Mirror: When boss hits 50% he summons 2 duplicates of himself with half the original attack damage*
*Lieutenant: bosses have 125/second HP regen and no single boss can be killed while any boss is above 90% hp*

*Goggles/Roids Combination Puzzle: You will enter though a door and teliported to one of 3 positions. on top of the 2 story goggle running area(the throwers), inside the 1st story of the goggle area(the Guide), or out in the open facing the tile puzzle(the Runners). The mechanics are the same for the runner and the guide, the only change to the goggle puzzle will be the asteroids. Astroids will be coming perpendicular to the puzzle and take out an entire row of tiles when they hit. When a tile is destroyed there is a 10 Second wait before they respawn. Blue tiles are immune to this affect, but if a player is on a blue tile they will take 200 Untyped damage. All healing abilties will be disabled, but Haste/jump/tumble/wings exc will still be allowed. Both runners have to make it across the puzzle to get the reward. Entry to this level costs 1 Supreme mark of the tower*

Rewards:

Varying amounts of [Mark of the Tower] will be given for completing stages. Along with [Greater/Superior Mark of the Tower]'s for completing the more difficult tower stages. Example of prices of gear:



*Axe of the Tower (2h) 4d6 +9 (19-20 x4) *Symbol of Power*, Red Slot: 18[SMoT] 22[GMoT] 30[MoT]

*Ring of the Tower +7 Int(cha/str/dex/wis/con) +2 Exc. Int(cha/str/dex/wis/con): 14[SMoT] 17[GMoT] 24[MoT]

*Trinket of the Tower +2 Profane Str(int/cha/dex/wis/con) +4 seeker(+1exc str/int/cha/dex/wis/con): 14[SMoT] 17[GMoT] 24[MoT]

*Sword of the Tower Long-sword (1h) 2d8 + 8 (17-20 x2)Anarchic Burst, Red Slot 18[SMoT] 22[GMoT] 30[MoT]

*Dwarven axe of the Tower (1h) 2d10 + 8 (20 x4)Adamantine, Red Slot: 18[SMoT] 22[GMoT] 30[MoT]

*Staff of the Tower (2h) 2d10 + 10 (20 x4) Spell Focus Mastery +2, Power Store, Spell Pen IX:18[SMoT] 22[GMoT] 30[MoT]

*Scepter of the Tower (1h) 2d6 + 10 (20 x4) Superior Arcane Lore, Savant Augmentation, Efficient Meta-magic - Empower IV: 18[SMoT] 22[GMoT] 30[MoT]


*Symbol of Power: This Weapon is inscribed with Symbol's of Power, Every once in awhile this power comes to the surface after landing a killing blow and inscribes a Symbol of Death (http://ddowiki.com/page/Symbol_of_Death) in the air above the wielder of this weapon. (10% chance of casting a Symbol of death after landing a killing blow)*

*Savant Augmentation: If you are a Fire Savant:

+3 CL on Fire spells, +2% Profane Fire Critical spell chance.
Water Savant:

+3 CL on Cold Spells, +2% Profane Cold Critical spell chance.
Air Savant:

+3 CL on Electric Spells, +2% Profane Electric Critical spell chance.
Acid Savant:

+3 CL on Acid Spells, +2% Profane Acid Critical spell chance.



*Of the Tower Set Bonus: If you have 2 items that have the suffix 'Of the Tower':

+1 Profane Attack, Damage, And Caster Level on Evocation Spells. (Different Sets for each of the abilities)
For 3 Items that have the suffix 'Of the Tower'

+2 Tower Bonus* to Attack, Damage, And Caster Level on Evocation Spells. (Different Sets for each of the Abilities)
For 4 Items that have the suffix 'Of the Tower'

+3 Tower Bonus* to All Saves, Skills, Attack, Damage, CL on Evo Spells, and +1 DC's on Necro/Enchantment/Conj/Illusion Spells.(All)

Having the Next tier in the set bonus's will negate the previous tier.

*Tower Bonus: Stacks will all existing Bonus's*

*All Items are BTC*

Axe:
4d6 + 9
-26.8 Damage per Swing
-add Crits, 19-20 10% chance of x4 Damage
-10.72 Damage per swing
Total: 36.52 Damage per swing

Long-sword:
2d6 + 8
-15 Damage per Swing
-add Crits, 17-20 20% of x2 Damage
-6 Damage per Swing
Total: 21 Damage per Swing

Dwarven Axe:
2d8 + 8
-17 Damage per Swing
-add Crits, 20 x4
-3.4 Damage per Swing
Total: 20.4 Damage per Swing

Comparable Weapons:

eSoS:
5d6 + 10
-25 Damage per Swing
-add Crits, 18-20 15% of x3 Damage
-11.25 Damage per swing
Total: 36.25 Damage per swing


Epic Chaos Blade:
2d8 + 6
-16 Damage per Swing
-add Crits, 19-20 x3
-4.8 Damage per Swing
Total: 20.8 Damage per Swing


Currently there is one uncontested 2 handed mele weapon in the game, and that weapon is a sword. So, dwarven axe specialization does not work with it, the 2h axe would be an equalizer for them while not completely overpowering the currently available weapons. The same Is true for the 1h Dwarven axes. Why is there so little love for epic dwarves?

The idea behind the Stats on the listed items is to be slightly better than what is currently available, but not to be completely overpowered. I have also included a new weapon property, Symbol of Power. The idea behind Symbol of Power is to give the weapon a new flavor that is currently not in the game, while not being an increase to DPS.

Other small rewards could be given for small numbers of normal marks of the tower, Ex/ Augment crystals for certain amounts, possibly some BTA crafting materials, Exc.

Possibly some little costume hat for a supreme mark of the tower for bragging rights.

**Changed have been added since original post, to include some more of my ideas, a more complex loot table, and ideas from posters.**


tl;dr?

Basics:

Challenging Tower based boss fights with good rewards.

Questions to think about:


1) More challenging fights though fight mechanics? or though more bosses/brute force?
2) Thoughts on rewards given for marks, More inclusive DPS calc?
3) Amount of total levels of the tower? More levels with higher marks/completion ratio? Less levels?
4) Thoughts on Tome chest? % good, higher? lower?
5) Tomes in the loot vendors for Marks? how many? +3? +4?
6) Thoughts on Symbols of Power?
7) Thoughts on additional rewards or bosses you would like to see included?


If you approve of the idea and do not have anything to add, a simple /Signed is appreciated ^^

blkcat1028
08-21-2011, 12:21 AM
I think it's a good idea, sort of a gauntlet. It sounds fun and I would certainly try it.

DragonTroy
08-21-2011, 12:34 AM
sounds absolutely deadly

love it

but you need to add the lord of blades in there at some point. he hits like a mac truck on steroids going at over 9000! miles per hour. with a blade

The_Brave2
08-21-2011, 12:39 AM
sounds absolutely deadly

love it

but you need to add the lord of blades in there at some point. he hits like a mac truck on steroids going at over 9000! miles per hour. with a blade



One of the new update bosses?

Definitely, as long as it fits into the difficult boss category and not the puzzle boss category like the Abbot.

Also, the Demon from Epic Into the Deep would be a nice addition to one of the levels.

PLUGintoTHEpowerLINE
08-21-2011, 12:40 AM
I like this idea. Make the lootgen based on how many levels cleared. Sounds like it would be crazy and perfect for the crazy powergamers. I wonder if it'd take attention away from the actual raids though . . . o.o

:)

Grenada
08-21-2011, 12:41 AM
but you need to add the lord of blades in there at some point. he hits like a mac truck on steroids going at over 9000! miles per hour. with a blade

Yeah he's apparently one of the toughest raid bosses now




...
Fourteenth: DQ Epic + Sulu Norm
fifteenth: Sulu/Horoth/Arritrikos Elite Difficulty
Sixteen: Lord of Blades
Seventeen: Tarrasque
eighteen: Tarrasque + Lord of Blades

Additions in epic color scheme

I like the idea

The_Brave2
08-21-2011, 12:42 AM
I like this idea. Make the lootgen based on how many levels cleared. Sounds like it would be crazy and perfect for the crazy powergamers. I wonder if it'd take attention away from the actual raids though . . . o.o

:)



Thought about that, one of my reasons for having the [Mark of the Tower] Loot system, second thought being that if raid loot were included it would be insane to do all of the levels.

There would Definitely have to be some sort of repetition timer, once per day or something like that.

Although, the inclusion of a raid loot chest after some of the waves wouldnt be all bad, since raid loot drops are a small enough % that it wouldn't affect it too badly, and there would be no 20th completion reward with guaranteed loot.

Possibly having a highly nerfed chest on the first few levels, so it wouldnt just be an easy farm every day to get a chance at raid loot.

The_Brave2
08-21-2011, 12:44 AM
Yeah he's apparently one of the toughest raid bosses now

Sixteen: Lord of Blades
Seventeen: Tarrasque
eighteen: Tarrasque + Lord of Blades

Additions in epic color scheme

I like the idea



Would Lord of Blades be more difficult than Elite Horoth + Sulu + Arritrikos?

oh, and thinking about that, should the bosses be at the same time or right after eachother, same time would be more difficult, real strain on the healers... possibly have some right after eachother and some at the same time.

Grenada
08-21-2011, 12:55 AM
Would Lord of Blades be more difficult than Elite Horoth + Sulu + Arritrikos?



maybe not, possibly him with some MK III WF titans and those eyebots would bring him up to par.
or combining him with another boss

Edit: Before anyone asks, the tarrasque does not require additional assistance, as it would (in ddo) have close to or over 1 million hp, blanket immunities to most spells, outrageous SR, massive DR, and regeneration of over 100/6 seconds

The_Brave2
08-21-2011, 01:02 AM
maybe not, possibly him with some MK III WF titans and those eyebots would bring him up to par.
or combining him with another boss

Edit: Before anyone asks, the tarrasque does not require additional assistance, as it would (in ddo) have close to or over 1 million hp, blanket immunities to most spells, outrageous SR, massive DR, and regeneration of over 100/6 seconds


your description implies that the Tarrasque isnt in DDO, whereas the other post said it was. which is it? lol.

Possibly have the lord of blades in a previous wave, then pair him with something like harry, then sulu then horoth, a bunch more levels.

I dont want this to go beyond 20 levels though... would just be 'OMG i hate my life' after that long killing bosses.

a completly new battleground would also be required, different scenery is a +

TheDearLeader
08-21-2011, 01:23 AM
Did I just read the script to a Bruce Lee movie?

TheDjinnFor
08-21-2011, 01:24 AM
The time spent getting from the first floor to the last would probably be in the range of several hours.

Remove about half of the floors and it might be a fun idea, but don't go overboard with the loot. Just make it an ePeen contest or something.

The_Brave2
08-21-2011, 01:30 AM
The time spent getting from the first floor to the last would probably be in the range of several hours.

Remove about half of the floors and it might be a fun idea, but don't go overboard with the loot. Just make it an ePeen contest or something.


While I enjoy the ePeen contest just as much as the next guy, i think that some BiS gear reward system for getting past X ammount of levels if required to draw player attention.

Dont know if several hours is correct, without the trash mob killing times it should be pretty quick fights, think about it:

EDQ2 would be like a 1-2min Fight without the normal fight mechanics
Norm Sulu/Horoth/Harry with a 6 man epic geared team would be some where around 2/3/5 mins each.

Now, the higher levels would require some time, but making less levels decreases the difficulty.

Something better than the eSoS/Staff of the petitoner/eChaosblades with a requisite of amazing gear to get the improvements is a welcome addition imo.

Possibly require the passing of certain levels to get higher currency would be required, so you couldnt just farm the first 5 stages and eventually get the item. possibly higher level marks exc.

DragonTroy
08-21-2011, 01:33 AM
One of the new update bosses?

Defiantly, as long as it fits into the difficult boss category and not the puzzle boss category like the Abbot.

Also, the Demon from Epic Into the Deep would be a nice addition to one of the levels.

yes, the lord of blades is from one of the new raids. he has a lot of special attacks that can all wipe an unprepared raid party, and he seems to get additional specials based on the difficulty. i heard some things from shade that sounded rather painful. a super fast dash attack that does at least 400 damage, raining blades, a spinning attack that does about 6 attacks a second. this is on normal. he's very impressive

i like the idea of the demon of the deeps as well

oh, and the Tarrasque isnt currently in DDO. its one of the super bosses from pnp i have heard. i dont have much info on him. he would probably be a challenge as well

DragonTroy
08-21-2011, 01:36 AM
While I enjoy the ePeen contest just as much as the next guy, i think that some BiS gear reward system for getting past X ammount of levels if required to draw player attention.

Dont know if several hours is correct, without the trash mob killing times it should be pretty quick fights, think about it:

EDQ2 would be like a 1-2min Fight without the normal fight mechanics
Norm Sulu/Horoth/Harry with a 6 man epic geared team would be some where around 2/3/5 mins each.

Now, the higher levels would require some time, but making less levels decreases the difficulty.

Something better than the eSoS/Staff of the petitoner/eChaosblades with a requisite of amazing gear to get the improvements is a welcome addition imo.

Possibly require the passing of certain levels to get higher currency would be required, so you couldnt just farm the first 5 stages and eventually get the item. possibly higher level marks exc.

oh, and the new raid also has some possibly game changing weapons for all classes and builds

The_Brave2
08-21-2011, 01:39 AM
oh, and the new raid also has some possibly game changing weapons for all classes and builds

Are there any threads with confirmed raid loot drops w/ stats? havent been able to find anything beyond 'cool loot' tbh.

the new raids are Definitely going to be spicing it up gear wise, but I would still like to see larger rewards for doing something as crazy as this :D

DragonTroy
08-21-2011, 01:52 AM
Are there any threads with confirmed raid loot drops w/ stats? havent been able to find anything beyond 'cool loot' tbh.

the new raids are defiantly going to be spicing it up gear wise, but I would still like to see larger rewards for doing something as crazy as this :D

no one seems to have posted it on the forums yet, as far as i know. and i dont have screenshots or anything.

but, from what ive seen, you'll be able to make a variety of extremely powerful weapons. they have 3 tiers as well. i have a few effects i read coming to mind, but it think the best thing you should do is go out into the areas and raids to see for yourself.

a hint though. if you go into the separate areas for the raids, you'll find machines that will show you some cool stuff

The_Brave2
08-21-2011, 01:56 AM
no one seems to have posted it on the forums yet, as far as i know. and i dont have screenshots or anything.

but, from what ive seen, you'll be able to make a variety of extremely powerful weapons. they have 3 tiers as well. i have a few effects i read coming to mind, but it think the best thing you should do is go out into the areas and raids to see for yourself.

a hint though. if you go into the separate areas for the raids, you'll find machines that will show you some cool stuff


From what iv seen, there is a greensteel like crafting system, but highly upgraded, such as that you can have 3? effects on any given teir.

Seems interesting, but... greensteel? again? ugh. hopefully i'll like the new raid and it doesnt become like shroud for me.. Stopped running that for mats months ago... just the shards when i absolutely NEED to.

in any case, more variety for the BiS weap for any given class is a + for me.

DragonTroy
08-21-2011, 02:04 AM
From what iv seen, there is a greensteel like crafting system, but highly upgraded, such as that you can have 3? effects on any given teir.

Seems interesting, but... greensteel? again? ugh. hopefully i'll like the new raid and it doesnt become like shroud for me.. Stopped running that for mats months ago... just the shards when i absolutely NEED to.

in any case, more variety for the BiS weap for any given class is a + for me.

it seems like a level 20 greensteel system.

BUT! without all they annoying I NEEDS MOAR DEVIL SCALES!!111!!!1!!11!!!!!

the ings seem to be the things you get from slaying in the cannith manufactory and something from the cool after fight once you loot that i think should be found out on its own for now. it is still on lamannia after all

The_Brave2
08-22-2011, 05:53 PM
Updated with more of my ideas, along with some of the suggestions from the responses to this thread.

Great Idea's guys.

Keep em coming! :D

sebastianosmith
08-22-2011, 06:01 PM
/signed...

With the provision that when the characters enter they are issued one standard yellow jumpsuit with black piping.

http://www.chinesekungfuhustle.com/images/mtz-jkd-a15f.jpg

The_Brave2
08-22-2011, 06:06 PM
/signed...

With the provision that when the characters enter they are issued one standard yellow jumpsuit with black piping.

http://www.chinesekungfuhustle.com/images/mtz-jkd-a15f.jpg


like this? (I need to stop referencing Flyff @_@
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/the_Brave1/CS_Set_M_Bruce_Preview.jpg

mournbladereigns
08-22-2011, 06:20 PM
Alright, Im Sure This Idea Has Been Circulating For Awhile, But I Would Really Like It To Be Implemented As A Way For Hardcore Players To Have A Little Fun.

The Idea:


first Level: Fire Ele. - Eda Difficulty
second Level: Sulu - Hard Vod Difficulty
third: Horoth - Hard Tod Difficulty
forth: Blue Dragon From Tor - Unimplemented Epic Difficulty (no Giant) - [mark Of The Tower] Awarded
fifth: Sulu - Elite Vod Difficulty - [normal Vod Chest] Awarded
sixth: Horoth - Elite Tod Difficulty - [mark Of The Tower] Awarded
seventh: Demon From Itd - Epic Difficultym- [mark Of The Tower] Awarded
eighth: Lord Of The Blades - Elite Difficulty - [greater Mark Of The Tower] Awarded
ninth: Sulu/horoth - Hard Tod Difficulty - [epic Da Chest Awarded + [chest With 50% Chance Of A [mark Of The Tower]]
tenth: Demon From Itd/sulu Epic/hard Difficulty - [greater Mark Of The Tower] Awarded
eleventh: Dq - Epic Difficulty - [1% +3 Tome Chest] Awarded + [chest With 50% Chance Of A [greater Mark Of The Tower]
twelfth: Lord Of The Blades - Epic Difficulty - [supreme Mark Of The Tower]x2 Awarded
thirteenth: Protect Normal Coyle From All Of The Previous Bosses In 12 Waves [supreme Mark Of The Tower]x3 Awarded Server Wide Annoucement.


Tl;dr?

Basics:

Challenging Tower Based Boss Fights With Good Rewards.



^fixed^

redspecter23
08-22-2011, 06:28 PM
I like the idea of this sort of extreme challenge type dungeon. I think you should get rewarded based on how far you make it, but not necessarily on completions. I'd like to see something like this progress to the point where completion is nearly impossible. Say 20 floors where the first 5 are cake, the next 5 are tough, the next 5 are a challenge for top geared toons and the last 5 are just an absolute insane test of skill.

Potential problems with the concept are that your proposed rewards are based on completion times so groups would be extremely focused on massive dps/massive burst heals instead of any sort of tactical approach. Burning resources would be encouraged in order to get it done faster. Not necessarily a bad thing, but keeping the rewards based on completions of each floor only is something I think should be encouraged.

I'd rather have the leaderboards show the max floor achieved and beaten by any given group instead of times on each floor. It's a tower so there never has to be an end to it. If the top floor is ever beaten, the devs can just add 5 more tougher ones on top.

Although single boss encounters are flashy, sometimes it's the additional mobs that can add challenge. Many single bosses can be beaten by a simple swarm/heal or aggro tank/secondary dps/heal method. (looking at the DQ specifically here. A good healer can make this a bit of a snore) Not overly exciting. The later proposed encounters with multiple bosses are the ones I'd find most interesting. Anything with more than one enemy adds potential tactical choices to the encounter. I'd start the multiboss encounters much earlier in the chain but make them a bit easier maybe.

My idea of later levels would be ones where timing and knowledge play a larger role than how much dps you have and how well the healers can keep up.

3 ancient dragons. One red, one black, one blue. Similar to Velah fight, but in a triangular pattern. There is no real safe area as at any given time breath from one or more of the dragons can hit behind the "rock" your healers use as a shield. You'll have to watch all 3 dragons carefully to see where the next breath is coming as the timing would be randomized. Additional mobs could be floating around debuffing the party or clearing debuffs/dots from the dragons. Keeping full dots up would be difficult if you don't keep your eyes open for the roamer.

Epic Demon Queen x2. One queen has a few fairly easy routes to victory, but 2? That's a bit trickier. I'd prefer to see her aggro fixed so that there could be the potential to tie one up while you work on the other, but even as it stands now, it would be interesting. The size of the arena could play a huge role in how easy or hard this encounter is.

The_Brave2
08-22-2011, 06:28 PM
^fixed^


LOL. no.. no.. please.. for my sanity.. no..

wait.. I have an idea...

What if...... we could fight a boss version of Coyle!!

Would certainly be a fun last level, give him some crazy hp/DR/DMG and let us try to destroy him :D.. story line:

Coyle has been brainwashed by the the Devils, they have given him special power as their last line of defense.

or.. we could not o-o

Kmnh
08-22-2011, 06:44 PM
Those aren't the best bodd fights you can come up with.


Get us the dragons from epic tor. And scale Choltluzz waves up to epic. Those fights are so cool at level.

put that boss from elite Monastery in there with no puzzle, that would be a fun fight.

The_Brave2
08-22-2011, 06:53 PM
I like the idea of this sort of extreme challenge type dungeon. I think you should get rewarded based on how far you make it, but not necessarily on completions.

one of my original concepts for this, making an unbeatable challenge, and massive rewards if you did manage it. the main reason I scrapped this idea is that most of the DDO concept is based on if you complete something a bunch of times, you show your mastery of that quest, and are rewarded for that. So I wanted the tower to reflect that. Overall definatly a viable alternative, but not the direction I wanted it to go.



Potential problems with the concept are that your proposed rewards are based on completion times so groups would be extremely focused on massive dps/massive burst heals instead of any sort of tactical approach. Burning resources would be encouraged in order to get it done faster. Not necessarily a bad thing, but keeping the rewards based on completions of each floor only is something I think should be encouraged.

Good point, it might be worth it to scrap the completion time reward all together, and just have it tied for bragging rights on the score board.


I'd rather have the leaderboards show the max floor achieved and beaten by any given group instead of times on each floor. It's a tower so there never has to be an end to it. If the top floor is ever beaten, the devs can just add 5 more tougher ones on top.

Tied into with the unbeatable tower aspect Vs. the Completions and Mastery aspect. again, it would work, but it gets tricky to make the rewards suitable without making it possible to beat the tower. I am trying to make a tower that will have an insane challenge while having a real reason to actually be doing it, im not sure how the reward system would work, since only 6 people in game would be able to get Reward A, and you would need reward A to complete the new tower levels.


Although single boss encounters are flashy, sometimes it's the additional mobs that can add challenge. Many single bosses can be beaten by a simple swarm/heal or aggro tank/secondary dps/heal method. (looking at the DQ specifically here. A good healer can make this a bit of a snore) Not overly exciting. The later proposed encounters with multiple bosses are the ones I'd find most interesting. Anything with more than one enemy adds potential tactical choices to the encounter. I'd start the multiboss encounters much earlier in the chain but make them a bit easier maybe.

The way I am proposing this is that in the multiple boss fights, they are simply back to back bosses, not at the same time. the reason for this being that My vision of the tower isnt a tactic based fight system, but a brute force how the hell could we possibly do this fight system. The problem with Tactic based fights is that they dont exist in DDO. Abbot? heal though it. eV6: Fire? run behind a rock. they simply arent that difficult, and they make the fight easier, since the bosses themselves have to be easier because of this added mechanic.


My idea of later levels would be ones where timing and knowledge play a larger role than how much dps you have and how well the healers can keep up.

Overall it always comes down to how well your healer heals, and how much DPS you have, if some new fight mechanics that arent so simple are implemented, that would be a nice addition to the tower. However, these mechanics would have to be present ONLY in the tower, so it doesn't quickly become norm. My idea of adding a certain aspect of skill to the tower, would be something like Goggles in the Abbot, adding that to a floor on its own would be quite interesting... infact.. I think i'll add that.


3 ancient dragons. One red, one black, one blue. Similar to Velah fight, but in a triangular pattern. There is no real safe area as at any given time breath from one or more of the dragons can hit behind the "rock" your healers use as a shield. You'll have to watch all 3 dragons carefully to see where the next breath is coming as the timing would be randomized. Additional mobs could be floating around debuffing the party or clearing debuffs/dots from the dragons. Keeping full dots up would be difficult if you don't keep your eyes open for the roamer.

Interesting idea, but im trying to stay away from things that would have to be completely new fight mechanic to the game, trying to keep the tower as realistic as possible. However I think this Idea goes a little overboard, Possibly 2 dragons on opposite sides, I think that 3 different sides would be too difficult to maintain.


Epic Demon Queen x2. One queen has a few fairly easy routes to victory, but 2? That's a bit trickier. I'd prefer to see her aggro fixed so that there could be the potential to tie one up while you work on the other, but even as it stands now, it would be interesting. The size of the arena could play a huge role in how easy or hard this encounter is.

The aggro of the DQ isn't broken, it is set to be random like the aggro of Arrtrikos, or the abbot. what you suggest basically the lord of the blades. high damage output, lots of hp. not to mention without the random aggro mechanic the fight would just be a tank n spank which is what you are suggesting against


Overall Great ideas, appreciate the thought out response. :D

redspecter23
08-22-2011, 07:45 PM
Regarding the multiple boss concept, I missed it in the OP, but now I get the idea of back to back fights. It's not what I'm picturing, but it has it's own type of challenge associated with it. I think the more the fights could be varied, the better it would be for group composition in general.

Theoretically, if every fight were a simple tank and spank, you'd be looking for a typical ideal group. One main tank for aggro, a couple off tanks, caster, healer and one other (bard, artificer, etc) or just a pile of casters for dot and kite. If you mix up the types of battles, then your group that's ideal for some fights requires a vastly different approach in some others. This was my thinking behind adding some tactical choices to the fights, though it can be more subtle really. This gets many different classes involved. With the bosses you proposed, I could see a 6 fvs group just completely dominating most of them. Again, that may not be the worst thing in the world, but I'd like to see fights where different classes can shine.

Even something as simple as a different terrain layout or size of the arena can alter tactics to a huge degree. Your 6 fvs kiter party won't work so well in a room that's extremely small and cramped. Things like anti magic barriers or beams can allow melee to shine and the facing and direction of these obstacles can have impact on how that room is run.

The_Brave2
08-22-2011, 07:51 PM
Again, that may not be the worst thing in the world, but I'd like to see fights where different classes can shine.


Anything can be murdered by 6 FVS's lol. but Id be interested in the boss fights you propose. What do you have in mind for group variation? Currently I cant think of anything in the game boss fight wise that would make class variation important.


Your 6 fvs kiter party won't work so well in a room that's extremely small and cramped.

6 WF Mele FVS's would murder anything. because they are self healing Mele with DoT's. Im not really in favor of cramped rooms, but it Definitely would be a good idea on tougher levels to stop BB kiters.

redspecter23
08-22-2011, 08:00 PM
I mentioned it a bit in my edit above, but room layout is key for group performance in my mind. Obstacles to block line of sight and a fast moving boss could keep distance attacks to a minimum. This can force you to use a typical tank role to keep the boss in place at least for a while so casters can set up attacks. The use of antimagic in some parts of a room can force you to kite bosses to specific locations in order to hit reliably with your magic effects. A large open room is of huge benefit to anyone with devastating ranged attacks such as casters. A room could be full of traps, or perhaps there is a side hall with some lesser fights that leads to some disarm boxes to make the main room safer. I'd have a mob constantly resetting the traps as well to keep the rogue/artificer busy in that hall.

The problem is that many (not all) bosses can simply be tanked into place which can lead to parties simply kiting them into position then attacking. This realization is what prompted me to originally suggest multiple bosses at the same time. Other solutions to this problem could be moving traps or antimagic beams or a moving prrismatic wall in the room to keep you moving at all times. A 6 person party can hold one boss in position fairly easily, but when you have 2 to deal with, your resources can get spread out, especially combined with some other problems to deal with like traps or respawning trash.

Combinations of some of these effects could lead to some interesting encounters. Anti magic turrets roving about the room. 95% of your magic is initially negated. Careful placement can allow you to sneak in some attacks here or there, but perhaps a clever rogue can find the trap boxes to disable those turrets... temporarily. There will be technicians sent out to repair the turrets while the fight continues. All the while a prismatic wall is roaming clockwise around the room, but at some point it decides to reverse and go counter clockwise. Somebody better keep an eye on that, but there are so many obstacles that you won't necessarily see it coming from this vantage point so keep moving.

Beating elite Horoth in a wide open space can be challenging to a 6 man party. Doing the same thing with the above conditions in effect can be downright evil.

The_Brave2
08-22-2011, 08:17 PM
Obstacles to block line of sight and a fast moving boss could keep distance attacks to a minimum.

LoS objects, meaning the boss will move around? or moving obstacles in the room? problem with distance attacks is that they dont really need to be ranged. My caster is just as effective up next to the boss.


The use of antimagic in some parts of a room can force you to kite bosses to specific locations in order to hit reliably with your magic effects.

Anti magics zones are a good idea, as long as they appear randomly. something like a boss casting firewall, making the party move around. seems interesting.


A large open room is of huge benefit to anyone with devastating ranged attacks such as casters. A room could be full of traps, or perhaps there is a side hall with some lesser fights that leads to some disarm boxes to make the main room safer. I'd have a mob constantly resetting the traps as well to keep the rogue/artificer busy in that hall.

Not sure I like the idea of having to have some1 with rogue skills in the group that wouldn't be contributing to dps for that fight. and for the lesser fights sidehall, it takes away from the boss gauntlet idea of the tower.



The problem is that many (not all) bosses can simply be tanked into place which can lead to parties simply kiting them into position then attacking. This realization is what prompted me to originally suggest multiple bosses at the same time. A 6 person party can hold one boss in position fairly easily, but when you have 2 to deal with, your resources can get spread out, especially combined with some other problems to deal with like traps or respawning trash.

There nothing you can really do about the classic tank and spank other than the random anti magic zones, random aggro being the only real stop to the tank and spank. 2 bosses just requires 2 tanks, possibly one being the caster in the group with self heals.

I dont want to include trash mobs at all in the tower, simply a boss gauntlet. some more puzzles would be welcome, along with NEW boss mechanics, but most of the bosses just need to be very difficult tank n spanks.

redspecter23
08-22-2011, 08:22 PM
I dont want to include trash mobs at all in the tower, simply a boss gauntlet. some more puzzles would be welcome, along with NEW boss mechanics, but most of the bosses just need to be very difficult tank n spanks.

I have no problem with that if it's what you're looking to do. I just personally wouldn't find it overly interesting. 10 phases of various tank and spank with some puzzles mixed in will keep people busy for a short while I suppose, but then if that's the case, I'd suggest making the scoreboard timed again, as that's where the real challenge would end up for the elite players. Trying to shave off a few seconds here or there, rather than just outright completions. I can't imagine too many scenarios where there are 6 players vs one boss that don't turn into typical tank and spank fights or dot and kite.

The_Brave2
08-22-2011, 08:26 PM
I'd suggest making the scoreboard timed again, as that's where the real challenge would end up for the elite players. Trying to shave off a few seconds here or there, rather than just outright completions. I can't imagine too many scenarios where there are 6 players vs one boss that don't turn into typical tank and spank fights or dot and kite.

The Scoreboard is still going to be timed, but no actual rewards for completing stages in specific amounts of time. just bragging rights.. or possibly some cool CS hat? iunno.

Id like some new boss mechanics but I think that goes beyond the scope of this thread :D and is a more general fix than simply just for the tower, id rather see the changes implemented in new quests that a wider varity of people can play them, rather than in a tower designed for the elite.

Grenada
08-22-2011, 09:30 PM
just an idea so you can add moar floors:

Make X number of floors a flagging quest.


???

Allow me to explain:


first, lets say 4 floors are one quest, where completing all of them flags you for the next 4 floors.

And so on until people are either brain dead, or we have to wait for the next update for the next 4 floors...

The_Brave2
08-22-2011, 09:39 PM
just an idea so you can add moar floors:

Make X number of floors a flagging quest.


???

Allow me to explain:


first, lets say 4 floors are one quest, where completing all of them flags you for the next 4 floors.

And so on until people are either brain dead, or we have to wait for the next update for the next 4 floors...

Seems like it would work, but again the issue of how to reward people for x amounts of floors cleared, im sure it could be figured out but no obvious answer comes to mind.

Personally id rather have something that I can keep trying untill I can complete the tower, then try to run it in record time and go for specific loot pieces. not to mention that you basically just made the abbot raid over again. :D

Go though some quests get flagged for another quests which you run 4 times to flag for another quest where you fight a boss. :D

The_Brave2
08-23-2011, 11:30 PM
added more complex loot rewards, thoughts on the weapon stats? im thinking that the eSoS will still pull ahead with higher damage mods because of the larger crit proflie, but the axe will still pull ahead with dwarven axe bonus.

Im no number cruncher so I would like to see some larger damage comparasins for these weapons so I can get a better idea of how to mod them to make it slightly better but not too much of an upgrade versus existing items.

sirgog
08-24-2011, 12:11 AM
Really like the idea of some sort of arena encounter like this.

Some possible other bosses:

Low difficulty:

Elite Gianthold Tor dragons (all three simultaneously) - these aren't so tough without the traps in their rooms

Baktor (wave 4 boss of epic Devil Assault)

Four Elite Shroud lieutenants, with the usual 'if two others are near me I can't die' buff

Elite Cholthuzz (Ghosts of Perdition)


Medium difficulty:

Marilith Sisters - two copies of elite Keradi (Bastion of Power)

Seeing Double - two copies of Turigulon (Epic Devil Assault)

Elite Xy'zzy, with her immunities automatically removed after three minutes. Each 15 seconds of the fight, additional mobs spawn - 1 Epic DQ1 efreeti, 1 Elite 'Watcher of Xy'zzy' beholder, or an Elite Living Meteor Swarm.


Tough:

Epic Lailat (post U11 DQ2 version). Each 10% of her HP, progressively nastier packs of mobs spawn, starting with two epic Wiz-King Gnoll Taskmasters, and scaling up to the final (10%) summon of twelve epic DQ1 Cacodemons.

Epic Gianthold Tor dragons - all three simultaneously. In addition, all three must die within 15 seconds.

Elite Lord of Blades, with a twist - instead of his usual adds, every 30 seconds he summons Subverted Sentinels (the WF caster trash in epic VON5). Each time he summons them, he summons one more (so 1 at 30 seconds, 2 at 60, etc), and each Sentinel projects an aura that grants all of its allies within the aura +2% melee alacrity and +2 to all stats. Multiple auras stack without any limits.

The_Brave2
08-24-2011, 12:33 AM
Really like the idea of some sort of arena encounter like this.

Some possible other bosses:

Low difficulty:

Elite Gianthold Tor dragons (all three simultaneously) - these aren't so tough without the traps in their rooms

Baktor (wave 4 boss of epic Devil Assault)

Four Elite Shroud lieutenants, with the usual 'if two others are near me I can't die' buff

Elite Cholthuzz (Ghosts of Perdition)

I like the idea of the shroud lieutenants, completly skipped that combat style while thinking of bosses to kill. Epic Choltuzz would be interesting... we could have it up higher in the tower, so the same falling down thing could apply... on one of the token levels possibly, and have a separate entrance to skip past the floors you dropped down.

Not sure if I want Baktor in the tower, the teliport system with him is buggy, unless they fixed it in u11, but he is still basically the same as all other devils.



Medium difficulty:

Marilith Sisters - two copies of elite Keradi (Bastion of Power)

Seeing Double - two copies of Turigulon (Epic Devil Assault)

Elite Xy'zzy, with her immunities automatically removed after three minutes. Each 15 seconds of the fight, additional mobs spawn - 1 Epic DQ1 efreeti, 1 Elite 'Watcher of Xy'zzy' beholder, or an Elite Living Meteor Swarm.

the Marilith sisters might work, do they aggro randomly as the DQ does? A double of one monster for one fight is an interesting idea, but it seems sketchy as you cant really have 2 of the same thing, possibly his long lost brother?

Not sure I like the Xy'zzy idea, dont think standing around for 3mins killing trash before I got to kill her, perhaps give her a larger HP pool and 1 or 2 random spawning beholders, with no immunity's.



Tough:

Epic Lailat (post U11 DQ2 version). Each 10% of her HP, progressively nastier packs of mobs spawn, starting with two epic Wiz-King Gnoll Taskmasters, and scaling up to the final (10%) summon of twelve epic DQ1 Cacodemons.

Epic Gianthold Tor dragons - all three simultaneously. In addition, all three must die within 15 seconds.

Elite Lord of Blades, with a twist - instead of his usual adds, every 30 seconds he summons Subverted Sentinels (the WF caster trash in epic VON5). Each time he summons them, he summons one more (so 1 at 30 seconds, 2 at 60, etc), and each Sentinel projects an aura that grants all of its allies within the aura +2% melee alacrity and +2 to all stats. Multiple auras stack without any limits.

Trying to say away from waves of trash mobs honestly, but for some of the higher levels im not completly against it. the Death and destruction with Cacodemons sounds scary, lol. especially with only one healer in the raid it would become very healing intensive... would make you need 2 healers in the party, which is not completely unwarranted already,Definitely a good reason to also have a high DC necro wiz in the party with the trash mobs... good way to have class variation

Interesting concept with the trash giving buffs... I think the number for time spent would have to be looked at, since with the LoTB fight style on epic is going to be long, unsure on elite and how that would stack up.

Definatly adding the ToR dragons into the mix more, was looking for a way to do that, and what you sugest sounds reasonable, possibly make it 20-25 seconds

sirgog
08-24-2011, 01:12 AM
the Marilith sisters might work, do they aggro randomly as the DQ does? A double of one monster for one fight is an interesting idea, but it seems sketchy as you cant really have 2 of the same thing, possibly his long lost brother?



Trying to say away from waves of trash mobs honestly, but for some of the higher levels im not completly against it. the Death and destruction with Cacodemons sounds scary, lol. especially with only one healer in the raid it would become very healing intensive... would make you need 2 healers in the party, which is not completely unwarranted already, defiantly a good reason to also have a high DC necro wiz in the party with the trash mobs... good way to have class variation

Interesting concept with the trash giving buffs... I think the number for time spent would have to be looked at, since with the LoTB fight style on epic is going to be long, unsure on elite and how that would stack up.

Definatly adding the ToR dragons into the mix more, was looking for a way to do that, and what you sugest sounds reasonable, possibly make it 20-25 seconds

IMO multiple simultaneous monsters are the way to go for tougher tiers. A single monster with really high stats doesn't pose as much threat as two monsters with lower stats, mainly because the two mobs can cast spells simultaneously.

Some other possible abilities that could be added to shake up an otherwise easy boss fight:

1) Mirror Image - Give the boss Nerezza's Mirror Image spell (Shadow Crypt boss, you'll only ever see it in action if you run the Crypt with no arcanes or divines). Basically after a set time he disappears at X% health, then 3-8 copies of him (all at X% health) appear. The copies have all of Nerezza's attacks, but do less damage, have a lot less HP, and don't need to be killed to finish the encounter.
In addition, the lower his HP are, the more clones appear.
Consider what this would be like with a boss that is durable, like Malicia.

Here's an idea for an implementation of it. Take as our boss of choice Barnzidu (Elite A New Invasion; chosen because of his mid-range durability, but remove his regeneration). At 75%, 50% and 25%, he splits in half. All copies must be slain to complete the battle, and copies split too.

2) Massive phase changes - Take Lailat's 15% hp berserk effect, or Kai-Teng's sword changing ability, and ramp it up to 11.

- Start with a base boss that's not too difficult, uses both spells and melee, and does put up a fight - let's say Turigulon (epic Devil Assault).
- From 100% to 80%, have them fight as normal.
- At 80%, give them a massive buff to spellcasting until 60% - +10 spell DCs and Superior Efficacy 9.
- At 60%, remove that buff, and give him a massive buff to melee attacks. Perhaps True Seeing, +10 Str and +25% melee alacrity.
At 40%, remove that buff, and give him a massive defensive buff. Perhaps +8 to all saves, to AC, and 50% absorb to all elements including Light.
At 20%, he starts to conserve energy - remove all of the buffs.
At 15%, he goes berserk and gets all of the buffs simultaneously.


3) A different sort of 'kill them all at the same time' fight

- Start with a trio of mobs (perhaps the Epic VON3 Pragon/Grotkin/Troll fight).
- Give them all significant regeneration, perhaps 100hp/sec each.
- Give each of them a buff as long as they are over 5% health, which prevents any ally within 200 metres of them dying.

This is similar to the Shroud lieutenants, but has a different feel to it.

The_Brave2
08-24-2011, 03:29 PM
IMO multiple simultaneous monsters are the way to go for tougher tiers. A single monster with really high stats doesn't pose as much threat as two monsters with lower stats, mainly because the two mobs can cast spells simultaneously.

Very true, only problem is balancing these fights, for instance it would be ridiculous to have the DQ along with the lord of the blades, AOE damage + Random aggro would wipe any party.


Some other possible abilities that could be added to shake up an otherwise easy boss fight:

1) Mirror Image - Give the boss Nerezza's Mirror Image spell (Shadow Crypt boss, you'll only ever see it in action if you run the Crypt with no arcanes or divines).

I like this idea, would be interesting for some of the lower levels, but for something like elite horoth or LoTB this fight mechanic would be near impossible for a group of 6.


Basically after a set time he disappears at X% health, then 3-8 copies of him (all at X% health) appear. The copies have all of Nerezza's attacks, but do less damage, have a lot less HP, and don't need to be killed to finish the encounter.
In addition, the lower his HP are, the more clones appear.
Consider what this would be like with a boss that is durable, like Malicia.

I think something like this would be interesting for something like the demon from ItD, something that hits hard, but is tankable... I'll figure out exactly what level I want this on but I Definitely want to add it.


2)
- From 100% to 80%, have them fight as normal.
- At 80%, give them a massive buff to spellcasting until 60% - +10 spell DCs and Superior Efficacy 9.
- At 60%, remove that buff Add True Seeing, +10 Str and +25% melee alacrity.
At 40%, remove that buff, and give him +10 to AC, and 50% absorb to all elements including Light.
At 20%, he starts to conserve energy - remove all of the buffs.
At 15%, he goes berserk and gets all of the buffs simultaneously.

50% elemental Damage, about a -20-50% miss chance for meles to hit him, 25% attack speed, +5 Damage, 50% spell Damage... Sounds like an absolute beast for 15%. I dont see adding this to the LoTB or any higher level bosses simply becauce they are already ment for 12 man raids, so the fight will already be much more difficult than usual. This Fight mechanic would be a good transition for the first Greater Mark fight.



3) A different sort of 'kill them all at the same time' fight

- Start with a trio of mobs (perhaps the Epic VON3 Pragon/Grotkin/Troll fight).
- Give them all significant regeneration, perhaps 100hp/sec each.
- Give each of them a buff as long as they are over 5% health, which prevents any ally within 200 metres of them dying.

This is similar to the Shroud lieutenants, but has a different feel to it.

Seems like a better idea than the killing at the same time fight mechanic, Might do something like this in combination with the mirror image idea, have the boss split at 50% to a trio, and then have that fight mechanic that you cant kill any 1 off without doing significant damage to another before he could regenerate. Something like this along with the Elite sulu fight would be quite deadly, 3 monsters hitting with the curse debuff along with considerable DPS.

Also, id like to get some feedback on the suggested items that I have and the currency amounts/levels given. Along with some other possible rewards that would fit in nicely with the difficulty of the fights.

Also, thoughts on the amount of total levels? Im thinking that I dont want to go over 12 stages, since it would start getting tedious. Should the levels go down to 10? and trim off some of the filler fights? up to 20 and make it worth more marks?

I'll be adding some more questions to the OP

Isolani
08-24-2011, 03:44 PM
Cool idea, only question I have is why Elite Cholthuzz? Any WF caster can solo him. He seems a lot easier than the other mobs on the list.

The_Brave2
08-24-2011, 05:04 PM
Cool idea, only question I have is why Elite Cholthuzz? Any WF caster can solo him. He seems a lot easier than the other mobs on the list.

Good point, Wanted to include him in the tower, but since epic wasnt available and I liked my levels I didnt really have a spot for him.

My Fix:

1: Cholthuzz (you fall down into the basement levels.)
2: hard Arritrikos
3: hard sulu
4: goggle puzzle

blade_of_will
08-24-2011, 05:33 PM
For the final floor, how about a choice of different raid bosses (sins of attrition style) with varying flavors of doom (Laliat could have spinning blade traps, disjunction traps, respawning red-named casters and hezrous - horoth could have several pit fiend lieutenants and the shadowmaster with shadows - abbot could just be himself, albeit slightly tougher to account for the 'epic' difficulty - ofc the bosses would have higher hp, damage, sr, fort, more deadly spells, minibosses (and by mini I mean suulo to horoth, a few deeps hezrous for laliat, kind of mini), and so on) and the rewards for the end chest being ether 100% chance to get raid loot or +3/4 tome or a straight epic raid item if the the raid has an epic difficulty. You could also have items to cover some of the stuff we would like to have (better/epic 1-handers, epic 2hander axe for example) and have them drop in lower floors/all end chests. This would assume that this is an epic (epic only?) dungeon/raid though.

der_kluge
08-24-2011, 05:38 PM
20 seconds is probably extreme for killing all 3 of those dragons... but I digress...

I like it - but I can't see it ever happening because the concept is a bit "gamey". By that, I mean, how do you story-justify such a place? I can't see the devs allowing it to exist - and it wouldn't exist outside of a purely game point of view. There's no compelling story reason for it to be there.

The_Brave2
08-24-2011, 05:50 PM
20 seconds is probably extreme for killing all 3 of those dragons... but I digress...

I like it - but I can't see it ever happening because the concept is a bit "gamey". By that, I mean, how do you story-justify such a place? I can't see the devs allowing it to exist - and it wouldn't exist outside of a purely game point of view. There's no compelling story reason for it to be there.

the story line part of it I dont see as a difficulty, re-occouring bosses simply didnt die at one time and went to get stronger by the time you got to the top of it, the tower itself can be explained as their real HQ.

The killing time is geared towards they all have to die withinn that time frame, so you get them down to low health then kill them, requires a little timing but defiantly do-able.


For the final floor, how about a choice of different raid bosses (sins of attrition style)

Something like this would be interesting, but just like sins a clear easiest boss would be the only one used, so im not sure if I want to add that, not to mention that I love the idea of having to 6 man LoTB!! :D


and the rewards for the end chest being ether 100% chance to get raid loot or +3/4 tome or a straight epic raid item if the the raid has an epic difficulty. You could also have items to cover some of the stuff we would like to have (better/epic 1-handers, epic 2hander axe for example) and have them drop in lower floors/all end chests. This would assume that this is an epic (epic only?) dungeon/raid though.



I currently have a 1% chance chest of a +3 tome on floor 11, I dont think any higher % tome chance should be added tbh.. 6% chance of a +3 is already quite high for an entire party.. Possibly increase that chest to 2% and 1% +4. i'll put that in the OP as a question.

100% chance to get loot would ruin the having to master the tower multiple times aspect (which is how most of DDO is currently)that I currently have for the loot tables, and would detract from running the normal raids for specific non-essential loot. I dont want this to be any short of a shortcut for bypassing gear ranks, as that would ruin some quests currently in-game. I want the tower to be complete-able, but not something that you would be able to do every time successfully. I have specs for the 2H axe currently with stats up comparative to the eSoS, but i would like to see a more inclusive DPS test done for it, (dwarven axe damage, higher damage mods)

RecklessDawn
08-24-2011, 06:16 PM
Cool idea. Sounds like it would not at all be completed until some form of strategy was developed for specific levels, especially with only a 6 man group. I'm just thinking out loud but I personally would like to see a two handed weapon at least marginally better than the Epic Sword of Shadows seeing how considerably more difficult this would be than epic dragon with proper strategy.

I do not think, however, that you should be able to acquire it from a specific number of runs. I would suggest that you offer a Tome trade-in perhaps using that mechanic (with something like 10 tokens for a +3 tome of your choice and 20 for a +4 or something). The weapon itself, and other incredibly powerful weapons/equipment, could be implemented in an optional chest that you would have a short decision to choose to go for (and continue WITHOUT the use of a shrine immediately into the optional).

And to add even more significance to the difficulty of acquiring those items, make it such that if you do choose to do the optional at the end that can drop them you risk losing all you have acquired that run (tokens).

Thus, the players can choose to leave with the tokens they have and have the ability to trade them in, or, if they believe they have enough resources left, continue into an even more challenging fight.

RecklessDawn
08-24-2011, 06:20 PM
My other thoughts were on a storyline for such a sequence of fights. It could be something that requires the completion of all raids and epic quests that contain those monsters named and go off a tangent of the dreaming dark/IQ chain. In this it would be a dream state and, similar to the Finding the Path IQ quest, the deepest horrors of your past are awakened to fight you together.

This time, however, it would not be as easy as a fight against a Marut, a Rust monster, and a giant skeleton. It would be the coming together of every challenging boss you have encountered in your quest across Eberron.

The_Brave2
08-24-2011, 06:30 PM
marginally better than the Epic Sword of Shadows

There would be something that is a small increase to the eSoS, I don't want something that is much better than it because it already out DPS's all other 2h weapons, so there is unbalance there, and an even more powerfull version will only make that unbalance worse.

The new 2h sword would be something like +11 instead of +10, increasing the base damage would be a much larger increase than this, but im open to suggestions on how to make that weapon, as currently I have only thought though the Axe.




I do not think, however, that you should be able to acquire it from a specific number of runs. The weapon itself, and other incredibly powerful weapons/equipment, could be implemented in an optional chest

Its currently about how many complete runs you manage to do though the tower, incomplete runs only net you lesser marks that could be used for lesser items.

I dont like the idea of an optional chest with the new gear inside it, I think the DDO already as too much of this depending on luck, id like this tower to be more about skill and the gear you toon already has aquired, so a static reward would be better IMO.


I would suggest that you offer a Tome trade-in perhaps using that mechanic (with something like 10 tokens for a +3 tome of your choice and 20 for a +4 or something).

Opinion noted, I agree here, about 7 runs for +3. Unsure If adding +4 would be a good idea..


And to add even more significance to the difficulty of acquiring those items, make it such that if you do choose to do the optional at the end that can drop them you risk losing all you have acquired that run (tokens).

I think you misunderstand the Token system, they are only used as a break point for your party to stop for awhile and resume some other day if one party member needs to bail, they are one use only.

If you are refering to marks when you say tokens, that seems very risky indeed. But again, Im not sure I want the weapons to be in a chest, I dont know about you, but Im sick and tired of opening a chest and getting nothing, something that I can really work towards would be a improvement in the game imo.


Thus, the players can choose to leave with the tokens they have and have the ability to trade them in, or, if they believe they have enough resources left, continue into an even more challenging fight.

The optional room wouldnt be optonal at all, because everyone would want a chance at those weapons. not to mention the party could disagree on what they want to do, using what resources to use, exc. it would become just a mana pot game for that last room, chugging your SP pool up to full after the LoTB fight... I cant see you coming out of that on epic with a 6 man team with any SP left.

The_Brave2
08-24-2011, 06:35 PM
My other thoughts were on a storyline for such a sequence of fights. It could be something that requires the completion of all raids and epic quests that contain those monsters named and go off a tangent of the dreaming dark/IQ chain. In this it would be a dream state and, similar to the Finding the Path IQ quest, the deepest horrors of your past are awakened to fight you together.

This time, however, it would not be as easy as a fight against a Marut, a Rust monster, and a giant skeleton. It would be the coming together of every challenging boss you have encountered in your quest across Eberron.

Excellent idea, but It doesnt tie into the tower aspect, and the token system would have to be revisited... unless your dream allows going in and out of the so called 'deepest horrors of your past'.

Possibly some way of waking up temporarily.. and the token could be to 'succumb to the dream' and go back to the tower.

I like the flagging idea, Definitely adding that to the OP.

RecklessDawn
08-24-2011, 11:36 PM
Couple more comments.

1) I hate the current system with +4 tomes in that they are only really achievable through sheer dumb luck (1% chance anyone?) through raids that are not really significantly challenging anymore. DQ2 and E6 epic have not been for quite some time, and the chance of a +4 on elite is not justifiably harder than it is on normal in my opinion. These tomes for some characters are the only current way of progressing their toon further other than a ridiculously monotonous amount of past lives.

2) No. I completely disagree with your comment that you think this weapon should not be better than the eSoS. Currently, (And even moreso with the new crafting implemented with U11 and new raids) TwF is higher single target DPS than ThF if built right. Obviously the benefits of movement while attacking and glancing blows/cleave/supreme cleave if in a large amount of mobs is justifiable just not really elsewhere. This weapon should at least situationally be better than the eSoS (Such as including an effect that would be extremely helpful on trash such as Stunning +10 and making it slightly weaker) or add in some kind of crazy new effect like +10% stacking glancing blow damage or something racially beneficial to dwarves if it is a greataxe, etc.

RecklessDawn
08-24-2011, 11:40 PM
Also, you're going to hate me for saying this, but for the kind of system you seem to be looking for (a certain number of completions yields you an item basically guaranteed as the challenge is difficult enough to justify it) a crafting system might make sense in which you can either use lesser marks to upgrade a base item (looted from optional perhaps) or lesser marks can be combined together to create greater marks, thus making stopping before the optional fight justifiable if it is so obscenely difficult that no one team has a clear shot at victory no matter how much experience.

The_Brave2
08-24-2011, 11:45 PM
Couple more comments.
2) No. I completely disagree with your comment that you think this weapon should not be better than the eSoS.

Quote me? I believe that I have only stated that it should be marginally better than the eSoS, better but not game breaking better.



Currently, (And even moreso with the new crafting implemented with U11 and new raids) TwF is higher single target DPS than ThF if built right.

So, add in a 1h weapon example? would like some ideas, but i'll work on it.


new effect like +10% stacking glancing blow damage or something racially beneficial to dwarves if it is a greataxe, etc.

Interesting, unsure If something specificly keyed towards a dwarf on a weapon is what I want to do, the axe should stack up well against the eSoS, making it a preference thing rather than the 'OMG eSoS pl0x!'.

I like the idea of something akin to +10% glancing blow damage. Something like that along with some sort of vampirism effect would greatly increase its use for players with the THF feats. Vamp effects can proc on glancing blows... correct?

RecklessDawn
08-24-2011, 11:52 PM
The optional room wouldnt be optonal at all, because everyone would want a chance at those weapons. not to mention the party could disagree on what they want to do, using what resources to use, exc. it would become just a mana pot game for that last room, chugging your SP pool up to full after the LoTB fight... I cant see you coming out of that on epic with a 6 man team with any SP left.[/QUOTE]

If you truly wanted this to be difficult you could simply add in some effect in the tower that prevents ANY SP potion usage (or somehow detracted from your reward?).

The_Brave2
08-24-2011, 11:57 PM
Also, you're going to hate me for saying this, but for the kind of system you seem to be looking for (a certain number of completions yields you an item basically guaranteed as the challenge is difficult enough to justify it) a crafting system might make sense in which you can either use lesser marks to upgrade a base item (looted from optional perhaps) or lesser marks can be combined together to create greater marks, thus making stopping before the optional fight justifiable if it is so obscenely difficult that no one team has a clear shot at victory no matter how much experience.

Oh, I always hate you :D

Oh god, not more crafting. @__________@

The reason I dont want the tiered effects on the weapons is that naturally the lower tiers would have to be less effective on something like the axe of the tower, making it worse than the eSoS at that stage, so I think that the complete axe for a specified amount of marks is still the way to go.

Combining marks is something I have thought about, but when I made the prices for the items the way it is coded is so that the ratio of marks stays relativity equal, so no mark is really valued more than another, although I do agree for teams failing the tower a couple times it would make sense to upgrade some of the greater marks to higher ones. Although the ratio of turnins would have to be against your favor..since its currently 2supreme for every 2.5 greater the turn in rate from greater:supreme would have to be around 5:1 and the normal:greater is 2.5:3.5 so the ratio for turnins would have to be about 3:1.

I just cant see how an optional chest would work at all... no matter how hard it is there would be groups confident in completing it, using pots to do so. and disabling pots in the tower is something I do not want to do. So really any optional chest becomes just a part of the run.

Even if what you say works, that it is so difficult it would be insane to try it, would you still have the weapons in that optional chest? or is the mark system still in place? Id like to see some sort of puzzle bonus level, that seems like the best way of attacking the issue of pots for the extra 'fight'. but I cant think of anything ingame that would work well enough for it to be worth that chest... 6-man a huge game of asteroids? twice as long goggles puzzle? im still trying to stay away from using things that are not currently ingame.

RecklessDawn
08-25-2011, 12:00 AM
Even if what you say works, that it is so difficult it would be insane to try it, would you still have the weapons in that optional chest? or is the mark system still in place? Id like to see some sort of puzzle bonus level, that seems like the best way of attacking the issue of pots for the extra 'fight'. but I cant think of anything ingame that would work well enough for it to be worth that chest... 6-man a huge game of asteroids? twice as long goggles puzzle? im still trying to stay away from using things that are not currently ingame. [/color][/QUOTE]

BOTH. Yeah, that's right. Flinging asteroids (perhaps even only having piles of them on blue tiles so you have to be quick) WHILE navigating across goggles. Unsure how this could possibly be implemented and whether or not both sides would have to constantly keep asteroids at bay (or they destroy tiles making it ever more challenging?) but it would truly be epic and not be controllable as to always complete if made right.

The_Brave2
08-25-2011, 12:06 AM
BOTH. Yeah, that's right. Flinging asteroids (perhaps even only having piles of them on blue tiles so you have to be quick) WHILE navigating across goggles. Unsure how this could possibly be implemented and whether or not both sides would have to constantly keep asteroids at bay (or they destroy tiles making it ever more challenging?) but it would truly be epic and not be controllable as to always complete if made right.

have half the people as designated rock throwers standing on top of the normal 2 deck goggle platform, defending against rocks that would destroy tiles. tiles will re spawn after 25 seconds. you have 1 person guiding 2 other people across the twice as long goggle puzzle.

The jobs of each of these people will be random, adding additional challenge, as every one in your group would have to be able to do each of the jobs well.

I like it... sounds like a real challenge.

RecklessDawn
08-25-2011, 12:13 AM
have half the people as designated rock throwers standing on top of the normal 2 deck goggle platform, defending against rocks that would destroy tiles. tiles will re spawn after 25 seconds. you have 1 person guiding 2 other people across the twice as long goggle puzzle.

The jobs of each of these people will be random, adding additional challenge, as every one in your group would have to be able to do each of the jobs well.

I like it... sounds like a real challenge.

Not sure if this is exactly what I was envisioning. I was thinking if you wanted it super challenging the asteroids could be coming down fast enough that you CANNOT get across without your asteroid throwers very coordinated with each other and protecting the route the gogglers are crossing as they step across. Otherwise, boom, tiles gone.

Or you could even have to rely on one another, 3 different sets 2 from your team of 6 must work their way across. Each individual must work their way across while also handling the asteroids coming down from above, would be absolute and total chaos and (hopefully) provide an insanely difficult and rewarding challenge.

The_Brave2
08-25-2011, 12:26 AM
Not sure if this is exactly what I was envisioning. I was thinking if you wanted it super challenging the asteroids could be coming down fast enough that you CANNOT get across without your asteroid throwers very coordinated with each other and protecting the route the gogglers are crossing as they step across. Otherwise, boom, tiles gone.

Or you could even have to rely on one another, 3 different sets 2 from your team of 6 must work their way across. Each individual must work their way across while also handling the asteroids coming down from above, would be absolute and total chaos and (hopefully) provide an insanely difficult and rewarding challenge.

I dont like the idea of having to run across tiles while at the same time throwing asteroids, mainly because going across tiles requires you to be very well coordinated with your guide, while at the same time looking at them for direction, falling rocks would make you have to look around, so I dont think that would be a good idea.

I still think that randomly assigned throwers, crosser's, and a guide would be the best route for this. And it will still require expert coordination from the 2 assigned throwers to protect the tiles. And the double long route would no doubt increase this in difficulty even more, larger area that they have to protect.

Thrower: Protects from a high point using asteroids, limited number... TBA
Guide: Guides the 2 runners across the tiles
Runner: gets across the puzzle

Tiles:
Blue: Asteroids do not affect these tiles, but a roid hitting a player on this tile will do 200 damage
Fading: Destroyed if a asteroid hits it. re spawns in 25 seconds

Jobs are randomly assigned.

Only problem I can think of is that the trajectory of the Asteroids, how would you be able to tell which asteroids are going to hit which row/tile exc. Possibly have the Asteroids come slower, but perpendicular to the tiles, so that they destroy an entire row if they hit.

The_Brave2
08-25-2011, 06:25 PM
bonus level added, in addition to some trimming of the post. Still working on the stats for additional items.

The_Brave2
08-27-2011, 01:33 PM
Added more weapons to the item list, epic 1h Dwarven axe anyone?

Also changed 2h Axe to have redslot instead of silver, Should be able to break DR with correct crystal just like eSoS.

RecklessDawn
08-28-2011, 12:12 AM
Between all of the changes you have suggested, I think this idea is somewhat starting to come together.

Understanding the need for some form of high difficulty content is something Turbine should really focus on.

My interpretation is that this kind of update might require a long time to come together and only be directed towards a limited number of their customers and thus they are doing content with multiple difficulty levels for all.

Personally, I can see their justification for this line of thinking but would like to see some content that is not beaten on the first day it comes out on the hardest difficulty setting by a group of only 7 people.

The_Brave2
08-28-2011, 12:16 AM
Between all of the changes you have suggested, I think this idea is somewhat starting to come together.

Understanding the need for some form of high difficulty content is something Turbine should really focus on.

My interpretation is that this kind of update might require a long time to come together and only be directed towards a limited number of their customers and thus they are doing content with multiple difficulty levels for all.

Personally, I can see their justification for this line of thinking but would like to see some content that is not beaten on the first day it comes out on the hardest difficulty setting by a group of only 7 people.

I see what you did there.

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/the_Brave1/iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg

The_Brave2
08-29-2011, 09:58 PM
Changed some weapon effects, base damage, and crit profiles. Cleaned up some grammar mistakes in the post.

thoughts on adding Augment crystals to the mark of tower loot table?

sheepface
08-30-2011, 06:08 AM
I really like the concept of this, but i'm not sure about the flagging and progression of bosses.

The_Brave2
08-30-2011, 04:45 PM
I really like the concept of this, but i'm not sure about the flagging and progression of bosses.

The progression of bosses is completely changeable, however I think that you should of had to kill each of these bosses on the highest difficulty in order to even attempt the tower since the idea is to have something for hardcore endgame players.

blade_of_will
08-30-2011, 05:26 PM
Something like this would be interesting, but just like sins a clear easiest boss would be the only one used, so im not sure if I want to add that, not to mention that I love the idea of having to 6 man LoTB!! :D



I currently have a 1% chance chest of a +3 tome on floor 11, I dont think any higher % tome chance should be added tbh.. 6% chance of a +3 is already quite high for an entire party.. Possibly increase that chest to 2% and 1% +4. i'll put that in the OP as a question.

100% chance to get loot would ruin the having to master the tower multiple times aspect (which is how most of DDO is currently)that I currently have for the loot tables, and would detract from running the normal raids for specific non-essential loot. I dont want this to be any short of a shortcut for bypassing gear ranks, as that would ruin some quests currently in-game. I want the tower to be complete-able, but not something that you would be able to do every time successfully. I have specs for the 2H axe currently with stats up comparative to the eSoS, but i would like to see a more inclusive DPS test done for it, (dwarven axe damage, higher damage mods)

For the first part.. tie it into the second one, and you could see why there would be more than one used. People would want to go to whatever has the items they desire.

Part 2 - I thought up of this with the 'nearly impossible to reach and defeat' floor in mind. IF you have a final boss floor with that kind of setup (where it takes a ton of effort and is really easy to screw up and lose your progress just trying to get to this floor, and the previous floors are designed to make getting here extremely difficult, and this floor is not intended to be beaten), then I think the rewards are somewhat close to fair (maybe put in a normal epic chest for the dungeon, and have it have some low chance to drop epic versions instead of normal versions, depends on how hard it is to get here).

The_Brave2
08-30-2011, 05:34 PM
For the first part.. tie it into the second one, and you could see why there would be more than one used. People would want to go to whatever has the items they desire.

This would create arguments between which boss to fight to get the gear the party wanted, as each member would want different gear, this would only increase if there was a so called 'unbeatable' level added imo.


Part 2 - I thought up of this with the 'nearly impossible to reach and defeat' floor in mind. IF you have a final boss floor with that kind of setup (where it takes a ton of effort and is really easy to screw up and lose your progress just trying to get to this floor, and the previous floors are designed to make getting here extremely difficult, and this floor is not intended to be beaten), then I think the rewards are somewhat close to fair (maybe put in a normal epic chest for the dungeon, and have it have some low chance to drop epic versions instead of normal versions, depends on how hard it is to get here).

I kinda like the idea of something unbeatable, but I kinda do not, unsure on whether or not it would detract from how fun the the tower experience would be... Loosing all of your progress for an attempt at an unbeatable level.

I tried to stay away from epic items for the tower, since it is not technically 'epic', so dropping shards/seals would seems like a bad idea. I included the eDA chest because it has nice loot and no epic items.

What are your thoughts on adding that epic level onto all of what is currently implemented, with a token upgrade of some sort... being able to upgrade your Axe of the Tower to Epic Axe of the Tower though this kind of idea would be interesting. Basically you would still be able to get BiS items from the tower without the unbeatable level, but if you did want to do the unbeatable level, you would be able to upgrade your items to superior options.

The_Brave2
09-02-2011, 12:28 AM
Few changes, Added 'Of the Tower' Set bonus.

Added new weapons for casters.

Ideas for a shield? What would people like to see on one?

Grenada
09-02-2011, 12:35 AM
...

Ideas for a shield? What would people like to see on one?

some new ac boost (exceptional dodge bonus, so to speak)
also mithral,
riposte,
holy,
and improved paralyzing.

Ultimate tank shield :p

The_Brave2
09-02-2011, 12:38 AM
some new ac boost (exceptional dodge bonus, so to speak)
also mithral,
riposte,
holy,
and improved paralyzing.

Ultimate tank shield :p

I like the idea of riposte, but is holy/para really worth it for a shield? I do not play any S&B character, so I am honestly asking.

What dodge bonus would you suggest... I believe the highest right now is +5, so +6 that would stack with that would be worthwhile.

Should the shield focus on DR or AC? I think that DR might be a better route since AC is somewhat lacking in purpose from what I have seen.

Grenada
09-02-2011, 12:44 AM
I like the idea of riposte, but is holy/para really worth it for a shield? I do not play any S&B character, so I am honestly asking.

What dodge bonus would you suggest... I believe the highest right now is +5, so +6 that would stack with that would be worthwhile.

Should the shield focus on DR or AC? I think that DR might be a better route since AC is somewhat lacking in purpose from what I have seen.

Yeah, dr focused is probably best, though there are a few high ac builds for tanks floating around now.

Holy and improved paralyzing were more for those with improved shield mastery (20% chance at attacking with your shield after a regular attack, like TWFing). Kinda like a perk to those with the feat. (remember, mithral also bypasses silver dr, so it makes those shield attacks really add up on bosses such as suulomades).

The_Brave2
09-02-2011, 12:50 AM
Yeah, dr focused is probably best, though there are a few high ac builds for tanks floating around now.

Holy and improved paralyzing were more for those with improved shield mastery (20% chance at attacking with your shield after a regular attack, like TWFing). Kinda like a perk to those with the feat. (remember, mithral also bypasses silver dr, so it makes those shield attacks really add up on bosses such as suulomades).

The current highest DR shield I know of is Levik's with a blocking DR of 15.

My thoughts :

20 Blocking DR
+10 Enhancement Bonus
10 Base Stacking DR (for DoS/StD)
Holy
Mithral
Riposte
50% Arcane Spell Failure

I will be adding a Caster shield also, so don't wine at me PM's :P

Dragbon
09-02-2011, 04:37 PM
I like the idea of a tower but would you consider. It going down rather then up sorta like descending into Hell.

Here's a story line that could work.

The founding members of the Twelve were the strongest that everlived but their magical powers attracted the presence of the most powerful creatures in the world. So soon the powerful deities Came to take the power of the Twelve. But the the Twelve put them in prison they created Once they were all imprisoned the Twelve decided that these creatures could not be kept with out a keeper. So the Founders of the Twelve locked themselves in the prison with the monsters. But because of all the planar shifting that has been happening the creatures in the prison woke up. Only came out of the prison to tell the tale and seek help.

I like the idea of no trash mobs on the way to the boss but with the boss should come some trash mobs because they make it alot harder.
I think an end boss doesn't have to have alot of hp or superpowerful moves to be hard here's an example I thought of.
Elite Horoth with some extra hp. Then add in some traps some disarmable a couple that are not and the ones that are reset after a timer. Then have some trash mobs that spawn like trolls from itd and some wind elementals. Then some walls that randomly move around and block casting. Also if there are enough trash mobs alive they will give horoth a big Regen buff.

Also a fun boss would be a giant boss that pushes you back with everyswing and then the room is full of traps like spikes that aren't disarmable but air vents that are disarmable. Combined with wind elves that have the ability to push you around would be really fun.

P.S. I wrote this all on my phone ugh my thumbs hurt.

The_Brave2
09-02-2011, 05:11 PM
P.S. I wrote this all on my phone ugh my thumbs hurt.

Im glad my thread inspired you to murder your thumbs :P

Descending into the groud would be interesting... I think something like locking them into a tower, then the tower sinking down into the ground would be a nice lore idea.

Trash giving regen... hm... HMMM... I suppose something like elite horoth + some sort of mini boss giving him regen would be quite interesting, especially if the mini boss multiplied over time if left there... would either make groups full on assult horoth and ignore the mini boss if their DPS was high enough, or kill that boss to give them more time to kill him... I like it!


Also a fun boss would be a giant boss that pushes you back with everyswing and then the room is full of traps like spikes that aren't disarmable but air vents that are disarmable. Combined with wind elves that have the ability to push you around would be really fun.

Unsure on where I stand on this... Making people be pushed around the room just makes casters more powerful in these kinds of fights, even with moving walls the DoT's would be kept on the boss.

Dragbon
09-02-2011, 05:41 PM
Unsure on where I stand on this... Making people be pushed around the room just makes casters more powerful in these kinds of fights, even with moving walls the DoT's would be kept on the boss. Quoted from The_Brave2

You could anti magic spikes in the room which even out the dps. Or even better put beholders in the room and where they die they leave an anti magic area. Now that would be sick.

The_Brave2
09-02-2011, 05:43 PM
You could anti magic spikes in the room which even out the dps.

Antimagic spikes that last long enough to stop the ticking of a DoT will most likely get a party killed due to no heals, or at the very least make them sit in a safe spot while they wait it out.

Dragbon
09-04-2011, 08:01 AM
If you are going to have red slots on the weapons you should have the ability to get epic tokens.

Also for the first beholder you could have one of the epic named beholders from evon3.

The_Brave2
09-06-2011, 01:35 AM
If you are going to have red slots on the weapons you should have the ability to get epic tokens.

Also for the first beholder you could have one of the epic named beholders from evon3.

It might be a good idea to add some sort of token trade in for tokens.

I like the idea of the epic beholders from von3... I'll find somewhere to put those in.

Grenada
09-06-2011, 02:21 AM
I like the idea of the epic beholders from von3... I'll find somewhere to put those in.

Random chance to spawn at the "in between level" shrines? (with chests for defeating, of course)

Just to keep the tower less predictable. :D

The_Brave2
09-06-2011, 02:24 AM
Random chance to spawn at the "in between level" shrines? (with chests for defeating, of course)

Just to keep the tower less predictable. :D

Would be interesting to have them pop up with a trap like style from rainbow, would add a use for a rogue in the party to disable them.

Edit: Also, crouching tiger hidden nerfbat... that.. is full of win.

The_Brave2
09-06-2011, 06:55 PM
Random chance to spawn at the "in between level" shrines? (with chests for defeating, of course)

Just to keep the tower less predictable. :D

Added a 25% chance every 3 floors for 2 epic von3 beholders to spawn at the shrine.