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LeLoric
08-19-2011, 06:08 AM
I went and levelled up an artificer over the last two days and wanted to share my experiences.

Most of this is going to concern an end game point of view as first the levelling just went to fast and its too hard to judge there as I never had to test myself and second I am an end game player and those are my concerns with any new content.

I wanted to do something that gave me a taste of all that the artificer could do. My build is far from the most optimal as it spreads itself pretty thin but here's a heads up of what I played. I don't want to get too much unto the build but here is some basic info so you can have an idea of the nature of what I was playing.

32 point true neutral WF artificer.

Starting stats

18 str
8 dex
16 con
16 int
6 wis
6 cha

All level ups in str.

I realize this is quite different from what most people are running but I wanted to be able to melee and see how they handled themselves. The dex was a concern to be able to range but in all honesty up till lev 9 ish I still hit most everything and after that I used insightful strikes to change my to hit score to int instead of dex and things were great.

Feats I chose.

Melee Feats: Toughness, THF x3, Power attack, IC Slash

Ranged Feats: IC Ranged, Point Blank Shot

Casting Feats: Quicken, Maximize, Empower, Augment Summons

Gearwise I kinda had to throw together a hodgepodge of stuff that I could and was very far from ideal. Some highlights of the gear. Epic Chimeras Fang, Epic phairlan Mirror Cloak, Epic Elder's cap, Con 6 gfl belt, sup potency 6 wiz 6 necklace, Greater evocation focus +2 luck crafted trinket. Not the best gear set but it gave me enough to go try some real endgame content. I really hoped to find a cacophonic verge as I have all the stuff to upgrade but no wand.

Ok anyways on to my experiences and thoughts.

Ranged: My build was more melee focused and as such ranged always felt a bit behind but even at that there was a lot of times I did mostly ranged combat and during those times I usually felt that if I had something comparable to the chimeras fang in the xbow slot I would have still been pretty happy. The 6 sec turbo fire from the prestige line was pretty awesome. Overall I would say that the ranged component of the class is fairly strong and a viable option for most any content.

Casting: Once again not the main focus of my build but I did take some feats and expended a lot of ap to test this out. I specced into full lightning dmg ad many of the spells seemed to fall within this group. Overall I really liked a lot of the direct dmg spells that the artificer is packing. Each has some strongly useful abilities and filled a nice alternate flavor role instead of just giving us the same spells we already have. That being said I just don't see artificers having the sp to be full time nukers without large quantities of spell replenishing items or a large sp pot fund.

Many of the spells had nice alternate effects though that made them viable for a shot here or there in between ranged blasts or melee fights. I especially loved Lightning motes as it made a pretty marked increase in my dmg done through my rune arm and weaponry with the increased lightning dmg debuff. So once again I like the dps spells and how they fit as a supliment to everything else while not necessarily needing to repetitively spam them to make them useful. Bard dmg spells could use some similar designs.

Melee:The main reason I did the levelling and testing was to see if a melee wf artificer could be viable. I think after testing it very well can be. The end game combination I had of Epic Chimera's fang and Chimera's breath were really strong. Sure there were times that I started to think it wasn't gonna happen mainly the last few levels of my leveling as my to hit was horrid and dps was slowing to a halt but that was mostly due to lack of gear especially weaponry. Once i was able to get some ready made epic gear on him things really changed.

One big item of note. You're rune arm extra dmg added to weapon attacks does so on every glancing blow so that's a nice dmg boost there. Great weapon aptitude line was a big boost also there are so many weapon effects going off getting those onto your glancings also as much as possible is part of what makes it viable in comparison with the other fighting styles. Couple melee dmg with pet dmg and rune arm blasts in between and the class is capable of putting out some pretty substantial dps. Having a pretty nice runearm that gives the bastard prof for free is also a big boost to this style.

Rune arms: Sadly it was really hard to test this very much as the slow bug asssociated with it is pretty crippling. Targeting with the rune arms is pretty wonky too especially the one from carnival pack. The different facets of the rune arm are a little hard to understand and theres not a lot of info in game.

Some examples of things that could be cleared up. Why do all rune arms show all the tiers when they can't charge up to the higher tiers. I kept looking for some way to unlock the higher tiers but apparently certain rune arms only go so high. Charge decay is another poorly explained project. Hopefully by release some of these bugs and inconsistencies with the rune arms can be cleared up. That being said I was getting 150-200 dmg on tier three charges on my rune arm. Never saw a crit here even having all the crit enhancements and as such maybe they don't and the ap I spent there could be dropped for something else. The normal dmg boost enhancements work though as does the spark/inferno clickies etc.

The Pet: I have to say I was not expecting much out of these mainly due to previous experiences with summons/hirelings but I was pleasantly surprised. My dog at 20 ended up being at 62 ac 650 hp 44 str 34 con. His hits were mid 40'ish non crits and crits were x2 in the high 80's usually. I made a +5 holy burst module of pure good for him but unfortunately the only effects I got were the +5 and the good dr bypass no holy or pure good dmg flags were landing. I never got another pair of wraps to test further. Ai was at times still poor and the having to resummon at every zone was a pain that hopefully gets fixed.

The Capstone: I wanted to mention this seperately as I think it warrants it. I see many comments of oh it's not that strong or not worth using. I can't see this being anywhere near the truth. A quick run through the portable hole and hose J gave me the following list of unlimited supply of buffs that a lev 20 artificer can cast at caster lev 20 for no spell points.

Divine power
Divine favor
Haste
Displacement
Nightshield
Shield
Barkskin
Rage
Recitation
Prayer
Jump
Blur
Resistance
Stoneskin
Protection from elements

Im sure theres more but thats just a good look at what the capstone does for an artificer buff wise. Add to that the triple wiz tr that are gonna be throwing out 40+ dc circle of death, finger of death, destruction, slay living, pk. The capstone ladies and gentlement is extremely strong.

Anyways so that's my impressions of the class as it now stands on Lammania and overall I think the class is really strong. It excels at no one thing but can do most any role in the game. While I didn't get to test them much the aoe heals from pots are also pretty strong and I can see artificers healing raids the same as we see bards do now.

Mjesko
08-19-2011, 07:05 AM
That is a very interesting review. Do you think without the x 10 xp the low Dex would matter more, because you need to play the quests at least on normal and hard to get enough xp?

Arctigis
08-19-2011, 07:08 AM
The capstone is unbelievably awesome IMO (especially if you solo a lot). They just need to fix potions...

Forgeborn
08-19-2011, 07:27 AM
I actually have a quick question about the boost to ML that the artificer gets, (artificer knowledge: scrolls mostly).

When an artificer casts a spell from a scroll (let's take the lowly level 1 jump spell for now), is it cast at level 25, or at level 20? (e.g. does it apply the boost to ML from artificer knowledge first, and then raises it to 20 if it's still below it, or does it first raise it to 20, and then apply the +5 ML)

Valakai
08-19-2011, 08:05 AM
Thank you for the review. Very well written. I had wanted to run artificer to 20 first as ranged xbow user and then LR him into melee version but I think the lesser hearts of wood are currently not working on lama land so have not had chance to test the melee stuff as of yet. It seems we finally have our classic fighter/mage that works. ;)

Aerendil
08-19-2011, 08:11 AM
The Capstone: I wanted to mention this seperately as I think it warrants it. I see many comments of oh it's not that strong or not worth using. I can't see this being anywhere near the truth. A quick run through the portable hole and hose J gave me the following list of unlimited supply of buffs that a lev 20 artificer can cast at caster lev 20 for no spell points.

Divine power
Divine favor
Haste
Displacement
Nightshield
Shield
Barkskin
Rage
Recitation
Prayer
Jump
Blur
Resistance
Stoneskin
Protection from elements

Im sure theres more but thats just a good look at what the capstone does for an artificer buff wise. Add to that the triple wiz tr that are gonna be throwing out 40+ dc circle of death, finger of death, destruction, slay living, pk. The capstone ladies and gentlement is extremely strong.

Yeah, something tells me this isn't the "design intentions" of the DDO devs that the Artificer will be capable of casting all of these offensive spells with such a high DC.
Buffs, fine. I think it's pretty powerful just on that merit alone. But throwing in all of those spells for 0 SP and having DC's almost on par with most Wiz/Sorcs, and probably better than some divines? Kinda silly, really.

rimble
08-19-2011, 08:18 AM
Yeah, something tells me this isn't the "design intentions" of the DDO devs that the Artificer will be capable of casting all of these offensive spells with such a high DC.
Buffs, fine. I think it's pretty powerful just on that merit alone. But throwing in all of those spells for 0 SP and having DC's almost on par with most Wiz/Sorcs, and probably better than some divines? Kinda silly, really.

Well, by itself I honestly don't have much of a problem with it...the problem is that it is kind of contradictory to previous decisions. That's why there are tons of scrolls missing from vendors, and why new spells often aren't added, they didn't like people beating quests via item usage...then this.

So, honestly, I'm fine with it, but I have my concerns that the devs will continue being fine with it.

Tuney
08-19-2011, 08:38 AM
They won't get very high DC's from scrolls but more so from wands due to Wizard Past life + Wand DC line.

Unless the wand part of both the wizard and Enchancment lines do more then just wands. Because 10 base + 6 (Spell level for Circle of death) + 14 INT mod (I think getting 38 int is resonable base line for an int focused arti) = 30 DC. If the Enchantment and wizard work for scrolls that brings it to 39. But then you still have to worry about passing a spell Pen roll for some things which may give you only a +20. Personaly I would love to test it. But I got to level my Main back to 20 befor this update hits and I got a lot of exp to go ;-;.

amoraenk
08-19-2011, 08:53 AM
Im sure theres more but thats just a good look at what the capstone does for an artificer buff wise. Add to that the triple wiz tr that are gonna be throwing out 40+ dc circle of death, finger of death, destruction, slay living, pk. The capstone ladies and gentlement is extremely strong.


does this kind of wand exist?? IMOH, only pk wands exist. The wiz pastlife doesn't apply on scroll.

WolfSpirit
08-19-2011, 09:02 AM
I've had a great time with the Artificer. Everything about their combat has been fun. I went Full out Crossbow, as many did.
It was a blast! Most fun Ive had in DDO in YEARS!
What they have done for crossbows is great, for once ranged of ANY type has gotten a LONG overdue boost.
I've heard other actually complaining about the speed of Crossbows being too overpowering.
Lets take away their Epic Sword of Shadows and see how they complain then!
I, for one, am VERY excited to see these changes and can not wait for live! OP, going melee is awesome! Im glad there are many different ways to play this new class, we DDOers like to customize for sure!
~
On a side note, the gimped up left arm looks awful! Why cant I charge my Runearm at my side and use the hand attached at the end of my arm while the device is charging? For me, this is the worst part of this class, the shriveled up useless looking left arm.
All the one handed operation of doors, levers, trap boxes an such...
Ugh!

Cyr
08-19-2011, 09:06 AM
My understanding is that scrolls will not get wizard past life bonuses and will be the following formula for an artificer for DCs.

Spell Level + 10 + Artificer Int Modifier = DC

That is all. Nothing else added on top...so no they will not be packing 40+ DC circle of death.

pasterqb
08-19-2011, 09:21 AM
The Capstone: I wanted to mention this seperately as I think it warrants it. I see many comments of oh it's not that strong or not worth using. I can't see this being anywhere near the truth. A quick run through the portable hole and hose J gave me the following list of unlimited supply of buffs that a lev 20 artificer can cast at caster lev 20 for no spell points.

Divine power
Divine favor
Haste
Displacement
Nightshield
Shield
Barkskin
Rage
Recitation
Prayer
Jump
Blur
Resistance
Stoneskin
Protection from elements

Im sure theres more but thats just a good look at what the capstone does for an artificer buff wise. Add to that the triple wiz tr that are gonna be throwing out 40+ dc circle of death, finger of death, destruction, slay living, pk. The capstone ladies and gentlement is extremely strong.

Anyways so that's my impressions of the class as it now stands on Lammania and overall I think the class is really strong. It excels at no one thing but can do most any role in the game. While I didn't get to test them much the aoe heals from pots are also pretty strong and I can see artificers healing raids the same as we see bards do now.

I think heal should be on this list. I know it caps at 15 but thats still 40 more hp returned than without it... more with scroll mastery... more with heal amp!!!

Level 20 Artificer:
150(caster level 15 heal scroll) x 1.3(tier 1 Scroll Mastery) = 195
Level 20 Cleric:
110(caster level 11) x 1.25(tier 1 scroll mastery) = 137.5

Pretty significant difference and that is without even factoring in heal amp. My Fleshy tanks have around 200% heal amp give or take 10%. So assuming 200% amp.

Level 20 Artificer:
150(caster level 15 heal scroll) x 1.3(tier 1 Scroll Mastery) = 195hp x 2 = 390hp
Level 20 Cleric:
110(caster level 11) x 1.25(tier 1 scroll mastery) = 137.5 x2 = 275hp

Not a bad tank healer for only using scrolls too and thats with only 1 scroll mastery.

MiLoHe
08-19-2011, 10:01 AM
Feats I chose.

Melee Feats: Toughness, THF x3, Power attack, IC Slash

Ranged Feats: IC Ranged, Point Blank Shot

Casting Feats: Quicken, Maximize, Empower, Augment Summons




Artificiers do have 13 feats??

Calebro
08-19-2011, 10:27 AM
Artificiers do have 13 feats??

They have seven base plus five bonus. You're counting wrong. He only has twelve. IC: Ranged is his other bonus feat.

LeLoric
08-19-2011, 02:11 PM
I think heal should be on this list. I know it caps at 15 but thats still 40 more hp returned than without it... more with scroll mastery... more with heal amp!!!

Level 20 Artificer:
150(caster level 15 heal scroll) x 1.3(tier 1 Scroll Mastery) = 195
Level 20 Cleric:
110(caster level 11) x 1.25(tier 1 scroll mastery) = 137.5

Pretty significant difference and that is without even factoring in heal amp. My Fleshy tanks have around 200% heal amp give or take 10%. So assuming 200% amp.

Level 20 Artificer:
150(caster level 15 heal scroll) x 1.3(tier 1 Scroll Mastery) = 195hp x 2 = 390hp
Level 20 Cleric:
110(caster level 11) x 1.25(tier 1 scroll mastery) = 137.5 x2 = 275hp

Not a bad tank healer for only using scrolls too and thats with only 1 scroll mastery.

Yeah artificers will be the king of scroll healers but they are the king of scroll anything. Theres a couple of cure mass scrolls available from vendors that they will be able to compliment their aoe healing withthe infused potions. Biggest thing is probably inventory Artificers really will be asking for scroll cases.

LeLoric
08-19-2011, 02:12 PM
My understanding is that scrolls will not get wizard past life bonuses and will be the following formula for an artificer for DCs.

Spell Level + 10 + Artificer Int Modifier = DC

That is all. Nothing else added on top...so no they will not be packing 40+ DC circle of death.

Yeah you are right I kinda was really tired when I wrote this up last night. Still dc 40+ pk is still viable in even epic content if not OP.

Calebro
08-19-2011, 02:26 PM
Biggest thing is probably inventory Artificers really will be asking for scroll cases.

This.
Between trap gear, regular gear, caster gear, weapons, Runearms, spell components, scrolls, wands, potions, clickies, etc etc etc.... My Arty's Inv is a friggin nightmare on Lama. My TWF'ing Rogues have the worst inventory problems on live, and Artys have it worse then they do.

Now that ingredient bags and crafting have proven that the tech exists (where they said it didn't before) we absolutely NEED component/wand/scroll cases introduced.
Although I do find it interesting that an extra Inv tab becomes available from the store at the same time this new Inventory Monger class in released.... :rolleyes:

Note: I tried to buy that tab on Lama. The store stole my points and didn't give ma a tab in exchange. Re-logging did not solve the issue.
I bug reported it.

Frotz
08-19-2011, 05:19 PM
Last I noticed, the "buy now" on the inventory window actual took you to +20 to Bank Storage not an inventory bag in the store (which does exist, but that button doesn't get you there).

Calebro
08-19-2011, 05:34 PM
Last I noticed, the "buy now" on the inventory window actual took you to +20 to Bank Storage not an inventory bag in the store (which does exist, but that button doesn't get you there).

I have max bank slots. There's no reason that it should even pull that page up for me with something available for purchase.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but normally when you already have something the store doesn't even offer you the choice to purchase it.

Either way, it's broken.

Chai
08-19-2011, 05:42 PM
Your build is almost literal to what I have on a word doc. Thanks for the review. It answered most of the questions I had about the viability of melee for this class.

LupusVai
08-19-2011, 05:45 PM
+1

Nice post and break down. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

I've been trying out two builds a ranged and also a b**tard sword version. Ranged was a blast up till about 10th. The b**tard sword version seems better after that. Spells have been fun but they wont be much good in amarath i think where the DC's need to be so high to be effective.

Glad from your testing with some better epic gear that the b**tard sword approach seems viable at end game.

The one thing I've really not been able to get much excitment from is the rune arms (with exception of the added damage to main weapon). Ironically the rune arms were the thing i was most looking forward to trying out ;-) . The damage from the actual rune arm charges seems pretty low overall and the few different arms i have tried have weird targeting issues. (magic missiles going in wide curving arc and hitting walls, barrels etc rather than target, lightning shooting off in random directions (normally out of my backside it looks like) flame bursts seeming to only randomly hit targets in the cone. With runearm and melee though you can fire off blasts seemingly with little or no interuption to swinging so will be an ok little boost to boss beat downs imo.

LeLoric
08-19-2011, 06:05 PM
+1

Nice post and break down. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

I've been trying out two builds a ranged and also a b**tard sword version. Ranged was a blast up till about 10th. The b**tard sword version seems better after that. Spells have been fun but they wont be much good in amarath i think where the DC's need to be so high to be effective.

Glad from your testing with some better epic gear that the b**tard sword approach seems viable at end game.

The one thing I've really not been able to get much excitment from is the rune arms (with exception of the added damage to main weapon). Ironically the rune arms were the thing i was most looking forward to trying out ;-) . The damage from the actual rune arm charges seems pretty low overall and the few different arms i have tried have weird targeting issues. (magic missiles going in wide curving arc and hitting walls, barrels etc rather than target, lightning shooting off in random directions (normally out of my backside it looks like) flame bursts seeming to only randomly hit targets in the cone. With runearm and melee though you can fire off blasts seemingly with little or no interuption to swinging so will be an ok little boost to boss beat downs imo.

Yeah rune arms are a work in progress for sure. Targeting was really crazy like you said. The slow bug you get from using them along with targeting really left me unable to test these too frequently.

That sai, I was getting 150-200 dmg per blast with the chimeras breath one at about 3 seconds per shot so thats about 60 dps there added on to what you are doing elsewhere (and this is a runearm that only goes to tier 3 charge) and it has no effect on your melee/ranged attack progression.

Learning to use it consistantly will be the key and I think it's great that it addszx some flavor to content instead of hold down right mouse key.

I would love to see all the rune arms able to tier up to tier 5 charges maybe in a levelling progression.

lev 1-5 tier 1 charge
lev 6-10 tier 2 charge
lev 11-15 tier 3 charge
lev 16-19 tier 4
and lev 20 has access to tier 5

This way runearms progress with you a little as you level and you aren't locked into only a few runearms if you want tier 5 charges available.

deo1deo
08-19-2011, 06:48 PM
All looks overall fun to me cant wait to the update 11!!

LeLoric
08-21-2011, 01:46 AM
Played some more today including the raids heres some further observations.

Either melee or ranged is viable even in end game raiding. Made a +5 holy burst repeater of GCB today for the raids and got some house d favor for adamantine bolts as I was concerned about my hp totals due to lack of gear.

Keep in mind I'm still half geared here but the repeater was still tearing things up. I imagine a fully geared and fully ranged specced arti would be much better even.

I tried my hand at melee and the dps aspect of it was nice I still was a little shy on the hp threshold I'd like to have for either of these raids.

This was the first time I've really gotten the chance to work the rune arm in long extended fights which is where I believe it really shines. Worked into a nice little rotation of melee while going through two tier three charges on the rune arm. After every two charges let off I'd fire a Lightning motes for the lightning dmg debuff. I ran with tier one smite construct here which works really well in the two raids enough to consider higher than tier 1.

I really think I like the melee aspect of the aritficer as the main focus, You are much more easily able to swap to a xbow and hit insightful strikes than a ranged build would be able to swap to melee. That versatility is nice. After all the testing I have done I am working up a build that I will be posting soon.

TreknaQudane
08-21-2011, 02:24 AM
I really think I like the melee aspect of the aritficer as the main focus, You are much more easily able to swap to a xbow and hit insightful strikes than a ranged build would be able to swap to melee. That versatility is nice. After all the testing I have done I am working up a build that I will be posting soon.

True enough. Unless they're built like an AA, the Artificer would need to have Weapon Finesse so they can still use Insightful Damage on a weapon for the boost to damage. This however assumes they can use anything besides a sickle and a dagger. Which means Elf, Drow, or Half-Elf /w Fighter Dilettante. Even doing that however, they'll not be getting Glancing Blows which is a large chunk of damage gone.

Ryiah
08-21-2011, 03:05 AM
This however assumes they can use anything besides a sickle and a dagger. Which means Elf, Drow, or Half-Elf /w Fighter Dilettante.

Or Master's Touch which is available as a level 1 infusion.

Calebro
08-21-2011, 03:15 AM
Or Master's Touch which is available as a level 1 infusion.

You don't even need to prepare it. All you need to do is set a weapon set with the weapon you intend on using in your off hand.
Use a scroll.
Equip your Runearm and then equip the weapon you mastered in your main hand now.
Voila, you're proficient.

budalic
08-21-2011, 03:18 AM
You don't even need to prepare it. All you need to do is set a weapon set with the weapon you intend on using in your off hand.
Use a scroll.
Equip your Runearm and then equip the weapon you mastered in your main hand now.
Voila, you're proficient.

Um, if I recall correctely, you can't buy scrolls of Master's touch.

Calebro
08-21-2011, 03:19 AM
Um, if I recall correctely, you can't buy scrolls of Master's touch.

Yep.
Portable Hole sells them.

budalic
08-21-2011, 03:26 AM
Yep.
Portable Hole sells them.

Dammit, never noticed it... probably because I didn't play any characters that might find it useful.

Still, thanks!

fatherpirate
08-21-2011, 03:32 AM
Overall I like it but there is the good and the bad.

I will assume the bugs will be fixed..so will not address that.

Good - Controled pet
Good - Overall BAB
Good - crafting

So So - Why do you get a UMD bonus for potions when NO potion requires UMD ??
So So - Spending a spell slot to toss your heal potions as heal bombs..I prefer to drink them, only useful
in a group AND most groups have a healer for that...if your going to make bombs, make acid ones or something.

The bad - 5 minutes only..not extendable ....that will be very unpopular, at least make durations based on lvl.
The bad - Anti repair ?? good only on constructs ? .....useless
The bad - +1 to a weapon...weeee well if it was PnP maybe, total waste of a spell slot here...+1 is.....nothing
The bad - +1 to armor ..............who cares ? we got cheap potions that do more.
The bad - Rune arm fire....charge...charge zap. why would I bother ? when I can just mow down stuff with my repeater that most likely
has The rune arm bonus, basic +, all them art enhancements, +1D6 burst something, + 1d6 burst festival enchant ?? lets see, arm gun single zap VS 1D8 + 2D6 + various X (3 shot burst) ....math anyone?

The Good/Bad Gun arm works with a heavy repeating Xbow...great ! but not with a short bow WHAT ???
The Good/Bad Conjure +1 bolts...sweet and needed. and why doesn't a ranger get the same? with arrows ?

ok, got a great idea......Artificers are SUPPOST to be able to inscribe arcane and divine spells...at some
difficulty into thier spell book........AND the freebie repair slot screams.....WF only class, all other are gimped.

How about this......each lvl 1, 2, 3 ect. the artificer gets ONE (1) bonus slot per lvl.
SO 1 first lvl slot, 1 second...ect.

and they get to inscribe ANY scroll of that spell lvl in it....arcane, divine, ranger whatever, but make it cost
a ton of plat to change it.

As masters of the art ...they should be able to do that.

Dump the freebie repair slot...but still allow that as a regular spell choice.

my 2 cents worth

Tuney
08-21-2011, 07:26 AM
The Rune arm charges and fires indepently from the main weapon. Reason few people so right now is a crippling movement debuff that doesn't go away sans reloading. When it is fixed you can take the 'rune arm feat' and it will work a little like auto attack , it will auto charge for you so you just pick when you FIRE!

Infuses have a durration of 5 Min or 1 Min per caste level , which one is ever higher. +1 infusion to armor and weapons stack so while it is not as great as say an elemental or metal type infusion, it can help a little for to hit.

I'd personaly find them overpowered if they were able to scribe nearly any spell.They aren't far behind due to being able to use scrolls/wands/clickies at higher levels and have the same wand/scroll mastery as a bard.

If you read all the feats ,they basicly all read the same. Just change 'what' and 'when' on the feat. I don't think everyone who rolls an Arti will be a Warforge. I know all crafting bots will be human though.

TreknaQudane
08-21-2011, 10:11 AM
Or Master's Touch which is available as a level 1 infusion.

Using that excludes any other weapon enchant doesn't it? That means giving up Deadly Weapons, a Metal Type, an Alignment, or Elemental Weapons.

Letrii
08-21-2011, 10:20 AM
Some infusions are 1 min/level and some are static at 5 min, depends on infusion.

Tuney
08-21-2011, 11:40 AM
Well only infusion I can think of that isn't 5 min/ 1 min per level is the haste armor infusion.

Ryiah
08-21-2011, 12:13 PM
Use a scroll.

I wasn't aware there were scrolls in the Portable Hole. Not surprising since I usually Master's Touch a two-handed weapon not a one-handed. Good to know. Although with all the scrolls an Artificer should be carrying around, I'd be tempted to just memorize the spell since there really isn't all that much at level 1 I'd want.



Using that excludes any other weapon enchant doesn't it? That means giving up Deadly Weapons, a Metal Type, an Alignment, or Elemental Weapons.

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7186/masterstouch.png

Calebro
08-21-2011, 01:23 PM
I wasn't aware there were scrolls in the Portable Hole. Not surprising since I usually Master's Touch a two-handed weapon not a one-handed. Good to know. Although with all the scrolls an Artificer should be carrying around, I'd be tempted to just memorize the spell since there really isn't all that much at level 1 I'd want.

For a 2 hander you'd need it prepared. MT makes you proficient in the weapon you're holding when the spell is cast. When you equip a scroll, you're not holding a 2 hander.
Scrolling it works for 1 handers if the weapon is in the off hand when the scroll is cast.

fatherpirate
08-21-2011, 02:09 PM
Yes, masters touch is treated as the standard arcane version.

Doganpc
08-21-2011, 03:10 PM
Glad to see the new class is multidimensional. Would have been sad if all Artificers were gimped melee and thusly funneled into 1 or 2 build styles (like Diablo 2).

Dogan
Although does sorta highlight that with good gear any build works.

LeLoric
08-22-2011, 12:27 PM
Not much further testing last night as I was doing stuff on another character.

I did xfer a cacophonic verge over to and did some very brief testing of it (43 umd is a little hard to reach for a no charisma no good luck item and no cha skills item wf though). Damage was roughly 80 on failed saves and 40 on made saves. WF in new explorer area failed my tests about 50% of the time. By my calculations I should have about a 28 dc here. I'll try and grab a testing dummy and hit the pvp area for some real dc testing. Retain essence did work here for any who may have wondered.

wiglin
08-22-2011, 10:40 PM
Here are some of my observations for the pet.

1. With an epic blademarks docent you can end up with a very good dc.

2. While leveling your pet can obtain (with your buffs included) pretty much untouchable ac. This however will cap in the 70's and so will be pointless in the level 18 raids and epic.

3) The dog is not the smartest dog. He needs to go training school and learn how to play. It isn't a big deal while leveling since you can have such a good ac, but once you get to epics he dies really fast. If you want to have your dog out in epics be prepared to play heal bot on the dog. Its a huge gap in the playstyle.

I would not even summon the dog on epic. He dies to quick and you have to waste to much time trying to keep him alive. If the dog is meant to be used as a valid addition to your dps for epics it will need some serious work. The amount of time it takes to actually control your dog and try to keep him on track is a big dps loss from not contributing yourself, so much that the dog is pointless after you cap.

I had alot of fun leveling to 20, but even with all the cool buffs and actually having a valid reason to pew pew, I will hold off on playing one when it goes live, unless the dog gets enough AI and Hitpoints to actually survive epics.

fatherpirate
08-23-2011, 01:34 AM
on raids I would just keep him close, defend only...you do know as a 20 lvl artificer you have insane
utility with wands? If you want uber fido ? you can use wands to buff the **** outta him.

just a thought

ReaperAlexEU
08-23-2011, 06:33 AM
Overall I like it but there is the good and the bad.

I will assume the bugs will be fixed..so will not address that.

Good - Controled pet
Good - Overall BAB
Good - crafting

So So - Why do you get a UMD bonus for potions when NO potion requires UMD ??
So So - Spending a spell slot to toss your heal potions as heal bombs..I prefer to drink them, only useful
in a group AND most groups have a healer for that...if your going to make bombs, make acid ones or something.

The bad - 5 minutes only..not extendable ....that will be very unpopular, at least make durations based on lvl.
The bad - Anti repair ?? good only on constructs ? .....useless
The bad - +1 to a weapon...weeee well if it was PnP maybe, total waste of a spell slot here...+1 is.....nothing
The bad - +1 to armor ..............who cares ? we got cheap potions that do more.
The bad - Rune arm fire....charge...charge zap. why would I bother ? when I can just mow down stuff with my repeater that most likely
has The rune arm bonus, basic +, all them art enhancements, +1D6 burst something, + 1d6 burst festival enchant ?? lets see, arm gun single zap VS 1D8 + 2D6 + various X (3 shot burst) ....math anyone?

The Good/Bad Gun arm works with a heavy repeating Xbow...great ! but not with a short bow WHAT ???
The Good/Bad Conjure +1 bolts...sweet and needed. and why doesn't a ranger get the same? with arrows ?

ok, got a great idea......Artificers are SUPPOST to be able to inscribe arcane and divine spells...at some
difficulty into thier spell book........AND the freebie repair slot screams.....WF only class, all other are gimped.

How about this......each lvl 1, 2, 3 ect. the artificer gets ONE (1) bonus slot per lvl.
SO 1 first lvl slot, 1 second...ect.

and they get to inscribe ANY scroll of that spell lvl in it....arcane, divine, ranger whatever, but make it cost
a ton of plat to change it.

As masters of the art ...they should be able to do that.

Dump the freebie repair slot...but still allow that as a regular spell choice.

my 2 cents worth

there are all sorts of actions you can perform while charging/firing your rune arm, it seems to be completely independent of the normal action system. so you can use the repeater and the rune arm at the same time, or a lever and the rune arm at the same time.

the arty is a master craftsman, the ranger is not, hence the arty being able to magic up bolts out of thin air. the arcane archer however can also magic up arrows out of thin air, it just takes 6 levels to unlock.

at lvl3 a fleshy can take a feat to gain 50% healing from repair spells at a cost of 25% less healing from divine spells. this may not be enough for end game but it will make levelling a lot easier and can be respecced out at a later date.

the bonus repair spell slot is great, you can buy the scroll to inscribe and its not cost you any build resources to gain that spell as an option (just remember to relog after doing so as there is a bug at the moment). in this respect is is very similar to the cleric's bonus spell slot, the only difference being it costs a bit of plat.

Aerendil
08-23-2011, 01:13 PM
One interesting thing I discovered today, and I'm sure others have noticed too - the Force line of caster enhancements includes physical and untyped damage.

Was just in a group of Artificers dropping 400-600 pt BBs (200 on a save).

wiglin
08-23-2011, 01:41 PM
on raids I would just keep him close, defend only...you do know as a 20 lvl artificer you have insane
utility with wands? If you want uber fido ? you can use wands to buff the **** outta him.just a thought

The dog ai is not that good. I always keep the dog on defend mode, he dies really quick in epics. No amount of buffs will stop that. Its like buffing a barbarian with everything before a fight. They will still take alot of damage and need a babysitter. Having to babysit the dog is a waste. For now you are much better off just leaving him at home in epics.

My dog was untouchable leveling from 1-20, but once I hit 20 that 70 ac didn't matter anymore. The dogs damage was around 20-30 a hit and it doesn't exactly attack very fast. You have to babysit the dog if you want him to last more than a few hits in epics and at that point you are losing alot from just being a summon babysitter. Turbine needs to go back to the drawing board on the pet.

EDIT:
Just talked to lelo a little, he had a good point for keeping the dog smarter on epics. Just keep him on passive mode and hotkey his attack to only attack what you are attacking. That will help him stay alive on epics with alot less micro managing to try to keep him healed.

jstawarz2
08-23-2011, 03:18 PM
One interesting thing I discovered today, and I'm sure others have noticed too - the Force line of caster enhancements includes physical and untyped damage.

Was just in a group of Artificers dropping 400-600 pt BBs (200 on a save).

This was part of the U9 spell overhaul. It also affects other spells (Meteor Swarm is the othe big one, I think, as well as Disintegrate).

Calebro
08-23-2011, 03:27 PM
This was part of the U9 spell overhaul. It also affects other spells (Meteor Swarm is the othe big one, I think, as well as Disintegrate).

Yes, but I think his point was that Artys can get slightly better BBs than AoVs can because of this. I find that fact perfectly acceptable, as an Arty only has about half of the SP to work with, and no DoTs, so getting a small edge in this one spellcasting area doesn't seem OP to me.

Aerendil
08-23-2011, 05:44 PM
Yes, but I think his point was that Artys can get slightly better BBs than AoVs can because of this. I find that fact perfectly acceptable, as an Arty only has about half of the SP to work with, and no DoTs, so getting a small edge in this one spellcasting area doesn't seem OP to me.

Yep, that was my point for the most part.

And one worth thinking about when planning one's APs.

Raiderone
08-24-2011, 11:34 AM
So far I've been testing the Ranged version. I built my Arty with 18 Int, 14 Con and 16Str for now even with Range Build assuming using Insightful Strike(not sure if it works no increase in Inventory Window to-hit). assuming bow strength is only bow's (too bad).

May eventually swap out to 16 Dex base build for Improved Precise Shot.

For Enhancements, building up Crossbow Damage & Attack, Rune Arm Impr Use & Overcharge, Electricity Amp full Line and most of Repair line.
May drop Repair Line later End Build for Scroll and Wand Heightening when UMD high enough...also dropping Feat Construct Essence...

Feats: Toughness, Mental Toughness, Impr Mental Toughness, Empower, Maximize, Construct Essence, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot, , IC Ranged...eventually Heighten and Quicken. Rapid Shot (after switching to Dex Build) dropping prob Construct Essence once UMD high or Improved Precise Shot Instead... Not sure if Rapid Shot is needed with Rapid Reload???

Dont see a reason for Spell Pen or Greater Spell Pen... Heighten only for BB and a few Electric Daze spells... that one Prismatic Ray spell seems too costly and too limited to me...

The Xbow burst is really nice for killing many mobs.

Fighting Undead seems to be a problem...due to ranged DR. Took Construct Essence and playing human.

I see no reason to swap to melee (point blank shot)...if ranged. I can understand swapping ranged to melee, if melee type (if melee and gonna swap no sense in taking point blank shot).

Arovin
08-24-2011, 11:46 AM
Dont see a reason for Spell Pen or Greater Spell Pen... Heighten only for BB and a few Electric Daze spells... that one Prismatic Ray spell seems too costly and too limited to me...


Heighten won't affect BB as it is a 6th level spell for Artificers and 6th is their highest tier.

Raiderone
08-24-2011, 11:54 AM
Heighten won't affect BB as it is a 6th level spell for Artificers and 6th is their highest tier.

Yah so used to cleric and fvs. Heighten then for a few spells and they are electric Daze spells and prismatic strike..

Isolani
08-24-2011, 11:54 AM
The dog ai is not that good. I always keep the dog on defend mode, he dies really quick in epics. No amount of buffs will stop that. Its like buffing a barbarian with everything before a fight. They will still take alot of damage and need a babysitter. Having to babysit the dog is a waste. For now you are much better off just leaving him at home in epics.

My dog was untouchable leveling from 1-20, but once I hit 20 that 70 ac didn't matter anymore. The dogs damage was around 20-30 a hit and it doesn't exactly attack very fast. You have to babysit the dog if you want him to last more than a few hits in epics and at that point you are losing alot from just being a summon babysitter. Turbine needs to go back to the drawing board on the pet.

EDIT:
Just talked to lelo a little, he had a good point for keeping the dog smarter on epics. Just keep him on passive mode and hotkey his attack to only attack what you are attacking. That will help him stay alive on epics with alot less micro managing to try to keep him healed.

Has anybody tried the rogue-like dog enhancements? Might be better for raiding/epics than a tank dog if survivability is a problem for it.

Raiderone
08-24-2011, 11:57 AM
Has anybody tried the rogue-like dog enhancements? Might be better for raiding/epics than a tank dog if survivability is a problem for it.

I built my dog rogue stealth version for less aggro and sneak attack. not taking any active enhancements cause I dont really have time for a pet!

One thing thats nice.... any dog type can pick up your stone and take you to a shrine!

SillyWallaby
08-24-2011, 12:06 PM
Has anybody tried the rogue-like dog enhancements? Might be better for raiding/epics than a tank dog if survivability is a problem for it.

You can also train the dog to use Bluff, which it might use it automatically because my dog uses intim when I haven't told it to. If I remember the intim/diplo/bluff update correctly, the dog will still get a threat reduction bonus if Bluff fails.

Raiderone
08-25-2011, 09:11 AM
One interesting thing I discovered today, and I'm sure others have noticed too - the Force line of caster enhancements includes physical and untyped damage.

Was just in a group of Artificers dropping 400-600 pt BBs (200 on a save).

The Force line has been like this since Update9. It's just that Clerics/FVS have no Force line.

Arty's Do :)

I switched from Electric Manipulation to Kinetic or Force. After getting BB.
And thats with out an additional items for increase damage...I was doing 400 damage at lvl18.

I noticed that after switching to Kinetic, I was tearing up the Vale.

I would say for End Game, Arty's are better off going all INT. Then melee or ranged depending on the build.

After LRing at lvl18, I went base stats: 8 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 18 INt, 8 Wis, 8 Cha with all builds up into INT.
Took Feats:
Rapid Shot, Augment Summonings, Empower, Maximize, Impr MT, MT, Toughness,
Precise Shot, IC Ranged, Heighten, Construct Essence, Point Blank Shot..

Dont need Spell Pen at All. No real need for Quicken since Arty's cast quickly anyway (IMO).

I took Heighten for the low lvl Daze Spells and Prismatic Strike Spell.

Edit: At some point after Dex19 (+3 Tome), will need to switch out a feat for Improved Precise Shot.
Either Construct Essence (since UMD healing) or Augment Summoning since less need at End Game (besides it's only a pet!)

TreknaQudane
08-25-2011, 12:46 PM
The Force line has been like this since Update9. It's just that Clerics/FVS have no Force line.

Arty's Do :)


It's only Clerics that get the shaft. FvS Angel of Vengeance increase Blade Barrier damage although they don't get anything that makes crits better

Angel of Vengeance 1
... You deal 20% additional damage with spells that deal fire, physical, or untyped damage...
Angel of Vengeance 2
... You deal 30% additional damage with spells that deal fire, physical, or untyped damage...