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Xionanx
08-17-2011, 10:19 PM
Having had the chance to finally test the rune arms out on an artificer from level 1-9 and then again at 20 thanks to an XP bump, here's what I think of the arms as they are now.


They should charge automatically; having to press a button to start the charge and then another button to fire it is not very intuitive. They should auto-charge and then you press to fire.
Capslock key is a poor choice for the default hotkey, I personally moved mine to "R" as I almost never use auto-run anyway.
Damage does not scale well even if you take all of the rune arm enhancements. To understand this statement requires you to also understand that a CAPSTONED artificer can grab a basic "Lightning Bolt" wand as sold in the market place and do ~100 damage a shot with little cooldown between shots, easily getting off 5 shots in the time it would take the same artificer to fully change a Rune Arm to tier 5 and fire it. Keep in mind thats NOT counting lore items or damage enhancement lines the artificer could take to make the wands to even more damage. As such, the rune arms just dont compare damage wise to wands. Now combine that with the fact that an artificer can easily have up to 50% chance to not expend a charge on that wand (40 INT, 20 Art, 3x Art Past Life), and you leave a person wondering why the damage doesn't scale better on the rune arms.
Other enhancements on Rune Arms ARE NICE and I can greatly appreciate the idea of picking up a rune arm and adding Seeker +6, 2D8 Acid Damage to my weapons, and various other perks.. oh and its craftable so you can add 10% ranged alacrity to your run arm as well.
Firing the Rune Arm while dead = bug, please fix it.
Finally, a suggestion - Rune arms IMO should do MORE damage, self charge, and have a longer charge time, and retain up to charge tier 5 with proper enhancements. I would prefer to think of them as an "Ultimate Move" where it takes ~2 minutes to fully charge to tier 5 and then you pop it off for "good-great" damage. As it is now I cant be bothered at low levels to stop spamming my heavy repeater for WAY more damage then the Rune Arm can do, and at higher levels well, its the same.. why stop spamming the heavy repeater? Why not use a wand/scroll for elemental damage when needed? The damage just isn't good enough and/or unique enough to justify taking the time to manually charge it and fire it.

FrozenNova
08-17-2011, 11:03 PM
Stronger
Longer charge
Auto charge


Yes. Some of these things are mitigated somewhat by the fact that you can be firing that wand or crossbow while the cannon charges - it's not really a loss - but the end result is rather underwhelming. As it is now, correctly using the rune arm to maximum effect is a horribly fiddley affair.

Simply enough -
Make a draggable UI object consisting of a column of runes, available to artificers.
It charges over time, regardless of what you're doing, and doesn't decrease - but won't charge over 'stable' while you're attacking, having to divert power to imbue, or somesuch.
Have charge times increase exponentially - level 1 taking three seconds, while 0 to 5 taking a minute.
At level 5, with the ultimate rune-arm and full enhancements, have a level 5 charge deal something like a 2000 damage single target nuke, or a 1000 damage aoe.

Overall dps addition would not be huge - 33.3 dps in the former case - but would nonetheless be pleasant and fun to use.

Gkar
08-17-2011, 11:08 PM
I like the way the Doom BFG9000 works, and I think you could do something similar with rune arms...

Want level 1 fire? Pull the trigger
Want to charge? Hold down the fire button and it fairly quickly charges up, release to fire.

LookingForABentoBox
08-18-2011, 02:06 AM
I like the way the Doom BFG9000 works, and I think you could do something similar with rune arms...

Want level 1 fire? Pull the trigger
Want to charge? Hold down the fire button and it fairly quickly charges up, release to fire.

I don't remember Doom but we can do it like that Gauss Gun in Half-Life 1:
Rapid fire small amounts of damage
Hold down and release for larger charge
Hold down for long enough and you reach a maximum charge and sustain it
Hold down for longer than that and it explodes in your face (probably not good to do this part in DDO)

Jackal912
08-18-2011, 04:43 AM
Having had the chance to finally test the rune arms out on an artificer from level 1-9 and then again at 20 thanks to an XP bump, here's what I think of the arms as they are now.


They should charge automatically; having to press a button to start the charge and then another button to fire it is not very intuitive. They should auto-charge and then you press to fire.
Capslock key is a poor choice for the default hotkey, I personally moved mine to "R" as I almost never use auto-run anyway.
Damage does not scale well even if you take all of the rune arm enhancements. To understand this statement requires you to also understand that a CAPSTONED artificer can grab a basic "Lightning Bolt" wand as sold in the market place and do ~100 damage a shot with little cooldown between shots, easily getting off 5 shots in the time it would take the same artificer to fully change a Rune Arm to tier 5 and fire it. Keep in mind thats NOT counting lore items or damage enhancement lines the artificer could take to make the wands to even more damage. As such, the rune arms just dont compare damage wise to wands. Now combine that with the fact that an artificer can easily have up to 50% chance to not expend a charge on that wand (40 INT, 20 Art, 3x Art Past Life), and you leave a person wondering why the damage doesn't scale better on the rune arms.
Other enhancements on Rune Arms ARE NICE and I can greatly appreciate the idea of picking up a rune arm and adding Seeker +6, 2D8 Acid Damage to my weapons, and various other perks.. oh and its craftable so you can add 10% ranged alacrity to your run arm as well.
Firing the Rune Arm while dead = bug, please fix it.
Finally, a suggestion - Rune arms IMO should do MORE damage, self charge, and have a longer charge time, and retain up to charge tier 5 with proper enhancements. I would prefer to think of them as an "Ultimate Move" where it takes ~2 minutes to fully charge to tier 5 and then you pop it off for "good-great" damage. As it is now I cant be bothered at low levels to stop spamming my heavy repeater for WAY more damage then the Rune Arm can do, and at higher levels well, its the same.. why stop spamming the heavy repeater? Why not use a wand/scroll for elemental damage when needed? The damage just isn't good enough and/or unique enough to justify taking the time to manually charge it and fire it.


The self charge thing is already in - go to your feats menu, nab the "Artificer Rune Arm Use" skill, drag it to your hotbar, and toggle it on. Now, you will automatically charge at all times, and fire with whatever your runearm key is.

One of the advantages that I've discovered that a runearm has over a wand is the fact that it does not in any way interrupt an attack animation - while you're firing away with your repeater or swinging an axe, you can charge, and fire, a rune arm, without ever stopping - as far as I can tell, there's no reason to not fire them the second they're finished charging at all times because it does nothing but add DPS to whatever's in your main hand - hell, you could go from there and wandspam WHILE firing your rune cannon - even more additional damage.

technoshaman
08-18-2011, 04:56 AM
I also notice is that you are very slow when running if you equip the rune and its not auto-charging. Some say in game is a bug. Please fix this so we don't die from running away slowly. For a positive feedback it has nice range like 60 to 70 ft.? I could not tell.

Arctigis
08-18-2011, 05:01 AM
Agree. I gave up using them at all (mostly because of the debilitating slow down). The force one (Redemption),
I really struggled getting that to hit anything. The missiles arc was so wide it would just hit walls etc...

dunklezhan
08-18-2011, 05:04 AM
The self charge thing is already in - go to your feats menu, nab the "Artificer Rune Arm Use" skill, drag it to your hotbar, and toggle it on. Now, you will automatically charge at all times, and fire with whatever your runearm key is.

.

That's an awesome tip, thanks

Dark-Star
08-18-2011, 12:03 PM
Please please please let us be able to toggle the rune arm sound effects on and off!

Aerendil
08-18-2011, 12:37 PM
The slow movement bug, combined with the slightly weak damage on it (even with rune arm and magical enhancements) means that 90% of my levelling so far has been doing using pet + x-bow. And the same for every other Arti I've run into on Llama so far.
Even ran into one who was level 20, using a level 17 or 19 rune arm (given by a dev during the event), and was still only doing 100-130ish damage using his fully charged arm.

Most Artificers can do more than that using a repeater x-bow, not to mention the point blank shot damage bonus or the 6-sec super-firing-spree clicky.

TheDjinnFor
08-18-2011, 12:45 PM
The self charge thing is already in - go to your feats menu, nab the "Artificer Rune Arm Use" skill, drag it to your hotbar, and toggle it on. Now, you will automatically charge at all times, and fire with whatever your runearm key is.

One of the advantages that I've discovered that a runearm has over a wand is the fact that it does not in any way interrupt an attack animation - while you're firing away with your repeater or swinging an axe, you can charge, and fire, a rune arm, without ever stopping - as far as I can tell, there's no reason to not fire them the second they're finished charging at all times because it does nothing but add DPS to whatever's in your main hand - hell, you could go from there and wandspam WHILE firing your rune cannon - even more additional damage.

Wow, that's nice. News for me, at least.

So what you're saying is "Sure, rune arm DPS is weak but they auto-charge and you can use it without interrupting your attacks"? Sounds fair, particularly since rune arms also count as a second gear slot.

Angelus_dead
08-18-2011, 12:55 PM
Damage does not scale well even if you take all of the rune arm enhancements. To understand this statement requires you to also understand that a CAPSTONED artificer can grab a basic "Lightning Bolt" wand as sold in the market place and do ~100 damage a shot with little cooldown between shots, easily getting off 5 shots in the time it would take the same artificer to fully change a Rune Arm to tier 5 and fire it.
What? Are you saying that Lammania has increased the fire rate for wands to six times as fast as it is on live?

Darkrok
08-18-2011, 01:06 PM
Yeah, the rune arm is a great accessory. It adds to your dps while using a single other weapon and when taking no feats. It's a huge win in that aspect.

But given the run-speed issue and the damage being lower than my x-bow by far I found it better to ignore it beyond that.

dkyle
08-18-2011, 01:18 PM
My biggest complaint is the dedicated keybinding. Why isn't it just a hotbar item? If you must, keep the caps lock default, but provide the hotbar item, and I'll just clear the keybinding.

The problem is that keybindings are universal to all our characters, so setting aside an important key just for my Artificer means setting it aside for all my characters. I already use all the keys in easy reach of WASD for my other characters. Currently, on Lammania, I'm just using my block key (I use alt, pressed by my thumb, since it's not like I can block and jump at the same time anyway), but that's only tolerable because I'm not playing my other characters on Lammania.

But overall, my impression of the rune arm is that it is mostly useless. If it didn't occupy a slot that would sit empty anyway, I probably wouldn't bother with it. My impression is that on a melee Artificer, going with a Greataxe would be a better option than Rune arm + one-handed weapon.

dkyle
08-18-2011, 01:23 PM
The self charge thing is already in - go to your feats menu, nab the "Artificer Rune Arm Use" skill, drag it to your hotbar, and toggle it on. Now, you will automatically charge at all times, and fire with whatever your runearm key is.

Good to know. Now just add a feat for the Firing part.

But the lack of interruption makes me wonder if firing the arm is fundamentally incompatible with hotbars. Is there anything you can put on a hotbar that has absolutely no interruption of your current activities when it's activated? All I can think of is disabling PA/metamagics.

Which, speaking of PA and hotbars, why the heck can't it remember that I had it on, the way metamagics do? It makes no sense...

Xionanx
08-18-2011, 01:51 PM
Agree, the self charge option should have been set as default. I'll give this a go and see it it improves my opinion somewhat.

EDIT: So toggling on that feat is nice and does improve the usage of the arm somewhat, however I'm still not thrilled with it and most of my other points remain.

Dark-Star
08-18-2011, 05:33 PM
After using the Rune Arm all day today, I have grown to like it a lot more.

Five bolts, and they can crit for 450.

Letrii
08-18-2011, 06:53 PM
My biggest complaint is the dedicated keybinding. Why isn't it just a hotbar item? If you must, keep the caps lock default, but provide the hotbar item, and I'll just clear the keybinding.

God no, don't make us use a hotbar slot for it.

Shanadeus
08-18-2011, 07:35 PM
I played around a bit and loved smashing up close-up enemies with my bastard sword in one hand and simultaneously fire off my rune arm at ranged enemies.

I'm sure people will figure out better ways of using the rune arms in the coming weeks, but from what I've seen from it it has a looot of potential.

Especially as you can equip it with Xbows.

QuantumFX
08-18-2011, 08:04 PM
God no, don't make us use a hotbar slot for it.

He’s suggesting it as an *option*. Some of us don’t want to eff up our keymaps for a single character.

Dirichlet
08-18-2011, 08:59 PM
My biggest complaint is the dedicated keybinding. Why isn't it just a hotbar item? If you must, keep the caps lock default, but provide the hotbar item, and I'll just clear the keybinding.

The problem is that keybindings are universal to all our characters, so setting aside an important key just for my Artificer means setting it aside for all my characters. I already use all the keys in easy reach of WASD for my other characters. Currently, on Lammania, I'm just using my block key (I use alt, pressed by my thumb, since it's not like I can block and jump at the same time anyway), but that's only tolerable because I'm not playing my other characters on Lammania.

But overall, my impression of the rune arm is that it is mostly useless. If it didn't occupy a slot that would sit empty anyway, I probably wouldn't bother with it. My impression is that on a melee Artificer, going with a Greataxe would be a better option than Rune arm + one-handed weapon.

I agree with the hotbar option. On Lammania I changed the hotkey to '1' and just pretended it was on my bar. As you said that doesn't work in the real game because we have other characters and they're not all Artificers. But then again, if we can't block with a Rune Arm, why didn't they just use the block key to begin with?

I quite like the Rune Arm mechanically, in how you can stack it with your other attacks and spells without interrupting them. There are a few targetting issues of course. I don't know about the scaling because I've only found three lower level Rune Arms and I wouldn't expect them to be competitive once you get to higher levels (the trouble with Lammania is you level up crazy fast but have sod-all gear). Maybe it needs a tweak, but I like the direction anyway.

Valakai
08-19-2011, 01:46 AM
Agree with hotbar option for easier keymapping.

Chimeras armcannon shoots the lightning in strange directions - usually behind me. "I shoot lightning from my arse - behold!"

The damage seems a little meh but otherwise their stats look pretty nice especially getting 2d8 to all weapon damage and to ALL glancing blows if you want to wield a b-sword or d-axe. And you can craft like shard of battleskill on it for +2 to attack rolls.

QuantumFX
08-19-2011, 02:37 AM
Chimeras armcannon shoots the lightning in strange directions - usually behind me. "I shoot lightning from my arse - behold!"

Greensteel Goggles of Fire + Chimera’s Breath = WIN

Vinven
08-19-2011, 03:11 AM
I think that firing the cannon along with the crossbow is a bit too much. I line the rune cannon idea, but not sure if it's best implemented.

Neouni
08-19-2011, 04:42 AM
The slow movement bug, combined with the slightly weak damage on it (even with rune arm and magical enhancements) means that 90% of my levelling so far has been doing using pet + x-bow. And the same for every other Arti I've run into on Llama so far.
Even ran into one who was level 20, using a level 17 or 19 rune arm (given by a dev during the event), and was still only doing 100-130ish damage using his fully charged arm.

Most Artificers can do more than that using a repeater x-bow, not to mention the point blank shot damage bonus or the 6-sec super-firing-spree clicky.

That level 17 rune arm shoots a horizontal spread of 5 acid bolts for 100 damage, if you max your acid line that goes up to 150-200 and they are guided shots if you target lock something.
I think i want the epic ring of elemental essence for my artificer

Letrii
08-19-2011, 10:01 AM
Greensteel Goggles of Fire + Chimera’s Breath = WIN

It's Wallace! Run away, run away!

AscendantMadness
08-22-2011, 04:21 AM
If you scroll further down in your Key Binding menu there are many, MANY places to insert new bindings! Try setting up a modifier key and attaching your Rune Arm usage to one if you don't like where it is, or get a new mouse with programmable buttons :P For instance, I long ago moved my whole movement set and everything else over one key to the right so that my left hand sits on the "home row", that way, I have the little nub on the 'f' key to help keep my fingers oriented and the 'a' key is now my push-to-talk so that my pinky doesn't just hang idly off the side of the keyboard. 'Z' is now in easy reach for Rune Arm usage :D. REMOVE auto-run, or at best make it a slightly difficult task to turn it on, it only gets you into trouble!

Xionanx
08-22-2011, 05:00 AM
If you scroll further down in your Key Binding menu there are many, MANY places to insert new bindings! Try setting up a modifier key and attaching your Rune Arm usage to one if you don't like where it is, or get a new mouse with programmable buttons :P For instance, I long ago moved my whole movement set and everything else over one key to the right so that my left hand sits on the "home row", that way, I have the little nub on the 'f' key to help keep my fingers oriented and the 'a' key is now my push-to-talk so that my pinky doesn't just hang idly off the side of the keyboard. 'Z' is now in easy reach for Rune Arm usage :D. REMOVE auto-run, or at best make it a slightly difficult task to turn it on, it only gets you into trouble!

I auto-ran into the water once in an ascension chamber raid, whats sad is we had already made it to the other side and done our part and were just waiting on the others to finish thiers, went to "R"eply to someone... bam, into the water.:rolleyes:

Auto-run is evil:mad:

Mister_Peace
08-22-2011, 06:15 AM
Why can't we use Shift to fire the runearm? It's not like we're allowed to block or tumble while wearing it.

joneb1999
08-22-2011, 06:42 AM
I don't know really how the rune arm works and this is a suggestion which some of you may find really really stupid.

I think a rune arm should charge for 5 minutes to be as powerful as a smart bomb a bit like in the old video games like Defender except when you fire that massive charge off at 17th level up it could require a save or kill a bit like a caster area death spell such as implosion but at range.

BUT to balance that it exhausts the artificer for a short time and costs him half his hp.

That is pretty unique to the game I believe.

ckorik
08-22-2011, 07:26 AM
So far all I see on rune arms are charged damage effects.

I'd love to see them add some other kinds of effects to the rune arms - for example (but not limited to):

Web shooting - web - each charge is a different DC

Daze - each charge increasing 'stun - effect' - so:

Tier 1 - daze
Tier 2 - fascinate (1 mob)
Tier 3 - Deep slumber (1 mob)
Tier 4 - Ottos dance (1 mob)
Tier 5 - power word stun (1 mob)

The idea that they are supplemental DPS is ok... but I think the idea of a spell cannon that has utility that changes based on charge is full of incredible potential.

I would also love to see the idea of using it as a buffing tool if so desired - ie:

Tier 1 - Resist (element of arm) 10
Tier 2 - Resist (element of arm) 20
Tier 3 - Resist (element of arm) 30
Tier 4 - Protection from (element of arm)
Tier 5 - Protection from elements (party)

Such a rune arm could be paired with ... say Imp Corrosion V and be acid based with caster-ish stats on it... but you get the idea - giving variety to your Kit and thinking of what arm you want active for what quest instead of 'need the better DPS arm' over and over till you get the 'best'.

Arti's are already going to be spending a small fortune in scrolls at higher levels - If you didn't consider the plat drain this will have on the economy. Who will be casting buffs when you can scroll the buff pretty much at level for no mana? That gets expensive though - not a big deal for someone sitting on a few million plat... but newbie arti's will be at a significant play style disadvantage.