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Grenada
08-15-2011, 11:29 PM
I haven't seen anything in U11 which suggests that mechanics are going to be more viable, so I'm going to throw this out there assuming they will still be viewed as sub-par to assassins.

The idea came to me after skimming through two of the supplementary pnp books (complete scoundrel and complete adventurer for all those interested). In essence, it is adding an ability which behaves in a similar fashion to multi-shot (but with a completely different effect).

Tier I mechanic

Lesser Sudden Strike
cool down 40 seconds
Activating this ability causes you to make an attempted melee attack against the targeted enemy with a hidden blade. (blade counts as masterwork dagger.) If it hits, the target takes regular melee damage, and there is a 50% chance of the attack doing sneak attack damage as well (at the regular SA damage for the character). The sneak attack occurs even if the target is not normally prone to a sneak attack. Fortification still applies, however, and this ability also will not work on enemies immune to SA to begin with.


Mechanic Tier II

Greater Sudden Strike
Cool down: 30 seconds
Same as lesser version, but blade counts as +1. It also increases the chance of landing a SA to 75%. As well, if the SA occurs, there is a 10% chance that it stuns the enemy.

Mechanic Tier III

Superior Sudden Strike
Cool down: 20 seconds
Same as greater, but blade is now +1 metalline. The SA also increases to 100% chance, and the stun effect to 20%.



As far as attacking with it, think of it as triggering like a trip or stun effect, or other combative ability of the same nature.

Flavor Suggestion
Would be fun if the player got to pick where his hidden blade was located (wrist, knee, elbow, bottom of boot, forehead...)


Please, flame away as it makes this thread more legit.

Feithlin
08-15-2011, 11:52 PM
IMO, the best way to improve mechanics would be to give more traps, and less costy, as well as improving their ranged fighting.

They could be granted a quicker Rate of fire for example. For traps, they could make traps to reduce fortification, or simply have a broader choice of spells to use. If Mechanic III brings the traps DC to 75% of DD, the DC could be quite effective.

*Edit: another idea would be to allow mechanics to craft grenade-bolts, that would trigger the grenade effect on hit.

Arasimaru
08-16-2011, 01:40 AM
I agree on one aspect; mechanics do need a buff. However, sneaky unexpected strikes sound more like an assassin ability. As mechanics are supposed to be the masters of.. Mechanical devices, some sort of an ability to incorporate one into a normal attack seems like the most flavor-based way of improving them. Maybe allow them to use a trap's effect on a normal attack for a limited duration, or something. Or make ranged on par with melee.

Grenada
08-16-2011, 01:57 AM
I agree on one aspect; mechanics do need a buff. However, sneaky unexpected strikes sound more like an assassin ability. As mechanics are supposed to be the masters of.. Mechanical devices, some sort of an ability to incorporate one into a normal attack seems like the most flavor-based way of improving them. Maybe allow them to use a trap's effect on a normal attack for a limited duration, or something. Or make ranged on par with melee.

The thought behind it was that assassins are the masters of a single, well placed strike. Mechanics struck me as more of the Surpise! I haz moar tricks up my sleeve (literally).

To me, a hidden, spring loaded blade feels right on par with the mechanic.

But all mechanics need is some sort of fancy ability to make them stand out. Just something that makes people question which PrE would best fit their playstyle.

ThePrincipal
08-16-2011, 02:21 AM
best buff to mechanics would be to make grenade and trap crafting more powerful ----or at least worthwhile

Meetch1972
08-16-2011, 03:08 AM
best buff to mechanics would be to make grenade and trap crafting more powerful ----or at least worthwhile

Agreed. I have a pure mechanic alt that will get all the trap parts my main acquires in his rogue life, as well as whatever she picks up.

The way things are going the supply will never be enough. Let me make traps with high enough DC's to matter, or increase the base damage/parts required ratio.

Failedlegend
08-16-2011, 08:52 AM
I'm all for giving mechanics more goodies since their so underpowered but giving them as MELEE attack is pointless

Feithlin
08-16-2011, 12:00 PM
Another idea on mechanics: they could benefit from the equivalent of metamagic feats, but for traps.

* Mechanic II: all grenades and mines have their damage increased as if affected by Empower (+50% to damage).
* Mechanic III: all grenades and mines have their damage increased as if affected by Maximize (+100% to damage, stacks with Empower in the same way as spells).

Additionaly, Mechanic I could unlock an enhancements line to further increase damage from their traps, grenades and mines (in the same way as casters):
* Deadly traps I (1 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by 20%.
Requisite: Mechanic I.
* Deadly traps II (2 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by another 10%, for a total of 30%.
Requisite: Deadly traps I, Rogue level 9+.
* Deadly traps III (3 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by another 10%, for a total of 40%.
Requisite: Deadly traps II, Rogue level 12+.
* Deadly traps IV (4 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by another 10%, for a total of 50%.
Requisite: Deadly traps III, Rogue level 15+.

Damage would be calculated the same way as spells:
Base damage x (1 + Empower + Maximize) x (1 + Deadly traps)

Each rank of mechanic could also grant some kind of critics: 3% (1.5 mult) for Mech I, 6% (2 mult) for Mech II, 9% (3 mult) for Mech III.

The DC of the traps would change with the mech rank (as it is now):
* Mechanic I:
Elemental traps: 50% of Disable device skill.
Magical traps: 10 + Spell level + Int + 2.
* Mechanic II:
Elemental traps: 66% of Disable device skill.
Magical traps: 10 + Spell level + Int + 4.
* Mechanic III:
Elemental traps: 75% of Disable device skill.
Magical traps: 10 + Spell level + Int + 6.

The max level of scrolls to be used for magical traps could also change a bit: up to level 3 for common rogues and mech I (as it is now), level 4 added for mech II, level 5 for mech III.

mournbladereigns
08-16-2011, 12:05 PM
Another idea on mechanics: they could benefit from the equivalent of metamagic feats, but for traps.

* Mechanic II: all grenades and mines have their damage increased as if affected by Empower (+50% to damage).
* Mechanic III: all grenades and mines have their damage increased as if affected by Maximize (+100% to damage, stacks with Empower in the same way as spells).

Additionaly, Mechanic I could unlock an enhancements line to further increase damage from their traps (in the same way as casters):
* Deadly traps I (1 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by 20%.
Requisite: Mechanic I.
* Deadly traps II (2 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by another 10%, for a total of 30%.
Requisite: Deadly traps I, Rogue level 9+.
* Deadly traps III (3 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by another 10%, for a total of 40%.
Requisite: Deadly traps II, Rogue level 12+.
* Deadly traps IV (4 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by another 10%, for a total of 50%.
Requisite: Deadly traps III, Rogue level 15+.

Damage would be calculated the same way as spells:
Base damage x (1 + Empower + Maximize) x (1 + Deadly traps)

Each rank of mechanic could also grant some kind of critics: 3% (1.5 mult) for Mech I, 6% (2 mult) for Mech II, 9% (3 mult) for Mech III.

That's actually a really good suggestion there. WOuld make mechanics very flavorful and make trapmaking more than a novelty.

Failedlegend
08-16-2011, 12:14 PM
Another idea on mechanics: they could benefit from the equivalent of metamagic feats, but for traps.

* Mechanic II: all grenades and mines have their damage increased as if affected by Empower (+50% to damage).
* Mechanic III: all grenades and mines have their damage increased as if affected by Maximize (+100% to damage, stacks with Empower in the same way as spells).

Additionaly, Mechanic I could unlock an enhancements line to further increase damage from their traps (in the same way as casters):
* Deadly traps I (1 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by 20%.
Requisite: Mechanic I.
* Deadly traps II (2 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by another 10%, for a total of 30%.
Requisite: Deadly traps I, Rogue level 9+.
* Deadly traps III (3 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by another 10%, for a total of 40%.
Requisite: Deadly traps II, Rogue level 12+.
* Deadly traps IV (4 AP): Increase the damage of your traps by another 10%, for a total of 50%.
Requisite: Deadly traps III, Rogue level 15+.

Damage would be calculated the same way as spells:
Base damage x (1 + Empower + Maximize) x (1 + Deadly traps)

Each rank of mechanic could also grant some kind of critics: 3% (1.5 mult) for Mech I, 6% (2 mult) for Mech II, 9% (3 mult) for Mech III.

The DC of the traps would change with the mech rank (as it is now):
* Mechanic I:
Elemental traps: 50% of Disable device skill.
Magical traps: 10 + Spell level + Int + 2.
* Mechanic II:
Elemental traps: 66% of Disable device skill.
Magical traps: 10 + Spell level + Int + 4.
* Mechanic III:
Elemental traps: 75% of Disable device skill.
Magical traps: 10 + Spell level + Int + 6.

The max level of scrolls to be used for magical traps could also change a bit: up to level 3 for common rogues and mech I (as it is now), level 4 added for mech II, level 5 for mech III.

Awesome the only change I'd say is make everything trap/grenade instead of just traps.

Feithlin
08-16-2011, 12:17 PM
To illustrate the previous post with some numbers.
The model will be a pure mechanic rogue at level 20, with an final Int of 30 = 15 + 2 tome + 5 level + 6 item + 2 capstone. The DD would look like: 58 = 23 ranks + 10 Int + 15 item + 4 enhancements (Disable device IV, required for Mech III) + 4 GH + 2 Luck (no tools bonus for traps).

Magical traps DC: 26 + Spell level.
Mechanical traps DC: 43 (75% of DD, rounded down).
Expected damage of small mines: 70 (base damage) * 2.5 * 1.5 = 262.5
Expected damage of average mines: 105 * 2.5 * 1.5 = 393.75
Expected damage of large mines: 140 * 2.5 * 1.5 = 525
Expected damage of deadly mines: 175 * 2.5 * 1.5 = 656.25

Still very far from OP, but much more useful than now.

Feithlin
08-16-2011, 12:17 PM
Awesome the only change I'd say is make everything trap/grenade instead of just traps.

Yes, that's what I meant. Modified the post to make it more clear.

Meetch1972
08-18-2011, 11:45 PM
Also offer an enhancement line to increase the DC of traps/grenades you set.

I'd love my mechanic alt to be able to make things go BOOM instead of pop.

Jay203
08-18-2011, 11:55 PM
first thing to do is to change the activation time of the mechanic abilities
takes... way.... too... fk'ing.... LONG! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: