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Dumluck
07-21-2011, 06:47 PM
How about an extra feat token for purchase in the ddo store? Maybe like 1 feat per number of times tr'ed per character. (If I have tr'ed a charcter 3 times for example I could purchase 3 feat tokens and add 3 more feats to my character.) I only suggest this because I assume the level cap will never be raised beyond level 20. Just looking for a way to further improve my characters since they will never be able to go beyond 20. I think this would be a great incentive for more people to tr their chacaters while also creating more revenue for the game.

ExK444
07-21-2011, 06:53 PM
No, this is the type of "Pay to Win" that Turbine strives to stay away from. Even one extra feat on a feat-starved class like Paladin would make a world of difference, making such classes quite a bit more powerful. And lets face it, we have completionists already, imagine if they could get all of those extra feats. People splash 1 or 2 fighter for an extra feats. They sacrifice their capstone for 1 or 2 feats. Imagine if they could buy those.

Dumluck
07-21-2011, 07:02 PM
Don't really see how its pay to win if you have to tr a charcter to get it. Maybe then a granted reward instead of the ddo store. If you can't further improve your chacter even after completion then what's the point to really even play the charcter anymore. After hitting 20 completion, how do you improve any futher??? After the 1st few trs you should already have the best of the gear.....

Helexax
07-21-2011, 07:12 PM
Only if it's a good 20-30k store points per. ( about 200-300$ )

Helexax
07-21-2011, 07:13 PM
Don't really see how its pay to win if you have to tr a charcter to get it. Maybe then a granted reward instead of the ddo store. If you can't further improve your chacter even after completion then what's the point to really even play the charcter anymore. After hitting 20 completion, how do you improve any futher??? After the 1st few trs you should already have the best of the gear.....

It is pay to win because you are buying incredibly powerful upgrades that you would have no other way to access.

Read it as: buying, NOT earning.

While there should be more incentive, this is not the way to go.

Robi3.0
07-21-2011, 07:14 PM
I love it!

Guy finally finishes his competitionist. His buddy asks "hey what feats did you take." Guy responds "all off them, why not?."

Epic levels go up to 30 and beyond if you have a crazy enough DM, so maybe level 20 isn't the end.

Dumluck
07-21-2011, 09:31 PM
Ok, so completion is done, no hope ever of leveling past 20, and say they never let you acquire any addional feats plus you have all the best gear from playing this char so much. What to do now??? Shelf the toon since it can't improve any further. Yea a new pack will come out but you will be done with it in a couple of days.... just been wondering for awhile now should I finish my completionist with no hope of ever improving it further or just find something better to do with my free time. I see no hope of this game keeping my interest if upon completion there is not anything else to do. Sure they can make every quest in the game an epic version but that's just the same as tring- recycling... just sad they can't keep the game evolving further for a character you have spent so much time on....

game5551
07-21-2011, 09:36 PM
How about an extra feat token for purchase in the ddo store? Maybe like 1 feat per number of times tr'ed per character. (If I have tr'ed a charcter 3 times for example I could purchase 3 feat tokens and add 3 more feats to my character.) I only suggest this because I assume the level cap will never be raised beyond level 20. Just looking for a way to further improve my characters since they will never be able to go beyond 20. I think this would be a great incentive for more people to tr their chacaters while also creating more revenue for the game.

Most of the time someone complains of pay to win, I just dont see it (I still dont believe selling raid timer rests is a pay to win) - but this surely is.

cdbd3rd
07-21-2011, 09:40 PM
Ok, so completion is done, no hope ever of leveling past 20, and say they never let you acquire any addional feats plus you have all the best gear from playing this char so much. What to do now??? Shelf the toon since it can't improve any further. Yea a new pack will come out but you will be done with it in a couple of days.... just been wondering for awhile now should I finish my completionist with no hope of ever improving it further or just find something better to do with my free time. I see no hope of this game keeping my interest if upon completion there is not anything else to do. Sure they can make every quest in the game an epic version but that's just the same as tring- recycling... just sad they can't keep the game evolving further for a character you have spent so much time on....


This post just pulled the carpet out from under the feet of your own OP.
If you're worried about what will keep your interest once you Complete, then would seem the last thing you'd want is more power. Capping faster is not a solution, nor would extra feats make cap any more interesting for a player than it is currently.
:confused:

k1ngp1n
07-21-2011, 09:43 PM
How about an extra feat token for purchase in the ddo store? Maybe like 1 feat per number of times tr'ed per character. (If I have tr'ed a charcter 3 times for example I could purchase 3 feat tokens and add 3 more feats to my character.) I only suggest this because I assume the level cap will never be raised beyond level 20. Just looking for a way to further improve my characters since they will never be able to go beyond 20. I think this would be a great incentive for more people to tr their chacaters while also creating more revenue for the game.

The limitations on feat slotting are a key area to maintain not only balance but the natures of the classes. Losing that kills the entire thing.

/hellno

ExK444
07-21-2011, 09:44 PM
Ok, so completion is done, no hope ever of leveling past 20, and say they never let you acquire any addional feats plus you have all the best gear from playing this char so much. What to do now??? Shelf the toon since it can't improve any further. Yea a new pack will come out but you will be done with it in a couple of days.... just been wondering for awhile now should I finish my completionist with no hope of ever improving it further or just find something better to do with my free time. I see no hope of this game keeping my interest if upon completion there is not anything else to do. Sure they can make every quest in the game an epic version but that's just the same as tring- recycling... just sad they can't keep the game evolving further for a character you have spent so much time on....

I don't know if I get this mentality. You should do something because it's fun, not because it gives you a reward which will ultimately only help you get more such rewards. I don't care if you have a full set of +4 tomes, epic/GS gear in every slot except for ring, of course occupied by upgraded ToD rings, and have 3 of every past life feat. That doesn't mean you can't run a raid with your guildies and have fun. Besides, buying extra feats wouldn't increase your grind time, it would just make everything easier, but for a price! You would be paying money, to be better than the guys next to you, and if that's right, than I don't know what's wrong. Sure you would have to grind out those TRs, and sure, there needs to be more incentive to TR more than twice, but I don't think giving people the option to spend hard earned cash to improve their character is a sound idea in the slightest. Even if it was free, multi-TRs playing feat-starved classes would be leaps and bounds ahead of first, even second and third lifers. There are issues with the TR system, but this would be a step completely backwards in solving them.

TL;DR
It's OP
It's pay-to-win
It's a bad idea

Dumluck
07-22-2011, 12:34 AM
I don't know if I get this mentality. You should do something because it's fun, not because it gives you a reward which will ultimately only help you get more such rewards. I don't care if you have a full set of +4 tomes, epic/GS gear in every slot except for ring, of course occupied by upgraded ToD rings, and have 3 of every past life feat. That doesn't mean you can't run a raid with your guildies and have fun. Besides, buying extra feats wouldn't increase your grind time, it would just make everything easier, but for a price! You would be paying money, to be better than the guys next to you, and if that's right, than I don't know what's wrong. Sure you would have to grind out those TRs, and sure, there needs to be more incentive to TR more than twice, but I don't think giving people the option to spend hard earned cash to improve their character is a sound idea in the slightest. Even if it was free, multi-TRs playing feat-starved classes would be leaps and bounds ahead of first, even second and third lifers. There are issues with the TR system, but this would be a step completely backwards in solving them.

TL;DR
It's OP
It's pay-to-win
It's a bad idea


LOL the only reason I play this game is because I feel its fun... But since playing this game since it came out, I'm just getting bored... Just disappointed that there seems to be an end to this game other than making more toons and doing the same things all over again. Just wish it could keep growing higher and higher.

I guess I am the only one that feels this way. my bad. I would rather continue to grow my characters than cap one, start another and repeat... Oh well, hopefully something will come. If not oh well...

Since, the level cap will not increase, I dont see any other option to grow your character further other than more feats. If anyone else has any ideas for further growth I would love to hear them.

Dumluck
07-22-2011, 12:40 AM
This post just pulled the carpet out from under the feet of your own OP.
If you're worried about what will keep your interest once you Complete, then would seem the last thing you'd want is more power. Capping faster is not a solution, nor would extra feats make cap any more interesting for a player than it is currently.
:confused:


<shakes head> The point is not more power, faster capping, the point I was trying to make was character growth... <sigh> I dont see any growth left in the game after capping a toon. Wish i did, hope something will come I do, but for the past few months, I just dont see it anymore.

Dumluck
07-22-2011, 12:43 AM
The limitations on feat slotting are a key area to maintain not only balance but the natures of the classes. Losing that kills the entire thing.

/hellno


Sorry i just dont see it in DDO being mainly a PVE enviroment, PVP such as Conan yes I would agree with you, but in PVE I just dont see it.

Zirun
07-22-2011, 03:23 AM
Sorry i just dont see it in DDO being mainly a PVE enviroment, PVP such as Conan yes I would agree with you, but in PVE I just dont see it.

There's this thing called "power creep". Basedon the suggestion, I'm going to assume you don't know what that is and how it changes games, so I'll explain it. As more and more things get added to the game, each having more power, versatility, or simply stacking with other things, the opponents have to have stronger things themselves to deal with this. You can think of it as an arms race. We only have knives, the enemies have pistols! Well, let's develop rifles! Well, they developed machine guns. Let's develop rocket launchers! Eventually, you're fighting each other with nuclear bombs, and what could once have been a strategic battle boils down to simply who fires first.

Power creep is viewed as more of an issue in PvP games, as you have noted. Collectible Card Games (Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic: The Gathering, etc.) are prime examples of an arena filled with power creep. Using the example I know well (well, not all that well, so there might be an error or two in here, lol), Yu-Gi-Oh, when the game first came out, high-level normal monsters and effect monsters with both positive and negative effects (Dark Magician, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Jinzo, Insect Queen) had a significant amount of power and were iconic. Eventually, as new cards came out, they became totally eclipsed by other monsters that required the same amount (or less, and even none nowadays) of sacrifices to summon, but also had additional positive effects (Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon basically invalidates Red-Eyes Black Dragon completely, for example). These are further eclipsed by shiny new things, like Synchro summons. Old cards are either completely invalidated (Why use X card, when I can use Y card that is the similar to X card but strictly better in every case?) or had to have things added to them (a lot of old cards now have associated cards that have unique effects or only work with those older cards).

DDO may be primarily a PvE game, but the principle still holds. Look at AC, for instance. When the level cap was 10, AC was useful to most players. Fast forward to now, where there are a billion stacking bonuses, better items were coming out every week, and Greensteel exists, and now suddenly you've crept up to a place where AC is almost entire hit-or-miss end-game (and in some cases, just hits), because the enemies have had to creep in power as well to keep up with the shiny things the players have.

Simply adding new appendages to characters will only make the monstrosity worse. Enemies will have to get stronger, AC will become even more pointless, and eventually it could even get to the point where multi-TR characters are so much stronger that in order for end-game mobs to compete with them, non-TR characters are virtually useless in comparison.

In summary, adding new body parts bad, letting people choose between an arm and a third leg good. Apologies for the long post, lol.