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View Full Version : Change Guild renown to associate to the player



JOTMON
07-16-2011, 11:12 PM
When someone leaves a guild and joins a new guild a portion of their guild renown should carry with them.
Everytime they leave a guild they lose more, but a guild that reforms loses everything and has to join an existing guild or start from scratch.

puget
07-17-2011, 11:21 PM
When someone leaves a guild and joins a new guild a portion of their guild renown should carry with them.
Everytime they leave a guild they lose more, but a guild that reforms loses everything and has to join an existing guild or start from scratch.


Hmm, just so I understand you right, I have to ask.

Are you saying that a person that leaves a guild, and hurts the guild they leave by costing that guild renown gets to reward the new guild with renown for leaving the previous guild?

ShadowFlash
07-17-2011, 11:30 PM
I don't know how many people I've run into that thinks this is how it works. They think that if you leave your guild and take all your renown, it then gets applied to the next guild you join. As it is now, there is not much in-game explanation of the fact that the only reason to "take your renown" if you leave is just to prove a point and/or be an ***. Enough of this happens already, please don't actually give people incentive other than ignorance.

/not signed

Bodic
07-17-2011, 11:33 PM
it has value, but lets say I am in a 6 man guild and I know another 6 man guild we are both lvl60. We all run together for raids all of the time and we even cross guild for 6 man quests. Lets merge poof what lvl are we now. yeah bad idea.

Corwinsky
07-18-2011, 04:18 PM
Where does the renown of a guild comes from except from his members/players? Same as with any sport team, etc

What is the renown of the LA Lakers?
If Kobe Bryant leaves the Lakers and move to the Cavaliers most people (objective ones so excluding the ones who can't stand him :)) would think that the Lakers have less chance to win a championship and the Cavaliers a bit more (not much more though but still...). Kobe Bryant fans will buy the new Cavaliers jersey sporting his number. People will think the cavaliers will win a better % of games next season, etc..

So renown transfers in RL and it makes sense to transfer it for game guilds as well:

The mercenary company of the drooling troll is well known across Stormreach for the exploits of its members who are known by name and celebrated in all its inns and taverns.
If captain awesome who was part in all the main victories of that guild in the last decade leaves for the happy hobbit fellowship people should start thinking this company will be able to do better things and have it in higher esteem even before captain awesome has done his first job with them.

Practically that means that indeed it would make sense that a % of what a member takes with him goes into his new guild (not everything, they should be a reduction to represent expectations that still need to be confirmed).

And definitely if the person doesn't leave but get ejected (or the whole guild got disbanded) far more than 20% of what he earnt should leave with him.
Right now it's a one way show with a new (or reborn) guild leader that is not penalized while the players can loose all the favor they brought if both parties separate (amiably or not).

My suggestion would be:
If players leaves
Takes 30% of all favor he earnt for the guild (that has not decayed) and 15% is transferred to his new guild.
If players get disbanded (removed or whole guild disdbanded):
Takes 80% of all favor points he earnt for the guild (that has not decayed) and 40% is transferred to his new guild.

elraido
07-18-2011, 04:24 PM
Big NO!

Musouka
07-18-2011, 04:26 PM
Where does the renown of a guild comes from except from his members/players? Same as with any sport team, etc

What is the renown of the LA Lakers?
If Kobe Bryant leaves the Lakers and move to the Cavaliers most people (objective ones so excluding the ones who can't stand him :)) would think that the Lakers have less chance to win a championship and the Cavaliers a bit more (not much more though but still...). Kobe Bryant fans will buy the new Cavaliers jersey sporting his number. People will think the cavaliers will win a better % of games next season, etc..

So renown transfers in RL and it makes sense to transfer it for game guilds as well:

The mercenary company of the drooling troll is well known across Stormreach for the exploits of its members who are known by name and celebrated in all its inns and taverns.
If captain awesome who was part in all the main victories of that guild in the last decade leaves for the happy hobbit fellowship people should start thinking this company will be able to do better things and have it in higher esteem even before captain awesome has done his first job with them.

Practically that means that indeed it would make sense that a % of what a member takes with him goes into his new guild (not everything, they should be a reduction to represent expectations that still need to be confirmed).

And definitely if the person doesn't leave but get ejected (or the whole guild got disbanded) far more than 20% of what he earnt should leave with him.
Right now it's a one way show with a new (or reborn) guild leader that is not penalized while the players can loose all the favor they brought if both parties separate (amiably or not).

My suggestion would be:
If players leaves
Takes 30% of all favor he earnt for the guild (that has not decayed) and 15% is transferred to his new guild.
If players get disbanded (removed or whole guild disdbanded):
Takes 80% of all favor points he earnt for the guild (that has not decayed) and 40% is transferred to his new guild.

This would have been nice at the beginning, but right now there are tons of people with established renown. Theoretically, you could just do a server wide call and have majority of players make 1 single guild and it reach 100 immediately. At least 55 with just people dragging their renown in.

puget
07-18-2011, 04:31 PM
Where does the renown of a guild comes from except from his members/players? Same as with any sport team, etc

What is the renown of the LA Lakers?
If Kobe Bryant leaves the Lakers and move to the Cavaliers most people (objective ones so excluding the ones who can't stand him :)) would think that the Lakers have less chance to win a championship and the Cavaliers a bit more (not much more though but still...). Kobe Bryant fans will buy the new Cavaliers jersey sporting his number. People will think the cavaliers will win a better % of games next season, etc..

So renown transfers in RL and it makes sense to transfer it for game guilds as well:

The mercenary company of the drooling troll is well known across Stormreach for the exploits of its members who are known by name and celebrated in all its inns and taverns.
If captain awesome who was part in all the main victories of that guild in the last decade leaves for the happy hobbit fellowship people should start thinking this company will be able to do better things and have it in higher esteem even before captain awesome has done his first job with them.

Practically that means that indeed it would make sense that a % of what a member takes with him goes into his new guild (not everything, they should be a reduction to represent expectations that still need to be confirmed).

And definitely if the person doesn't leave but get ejected (or the whole guild got disbanded) far more than 20% of what he earnt should leave with him.
Right now it's a one way show with a new (or reborn) guild leader that is not penalized while the players can loose all the favor they brought if both parties separate (amiably or not).

My suggestion would be:
If players leaves
Takes 30% of all favor he earnt for the guild (that has not decayed) and 15% is transferred to his new guild.
If players get disbanded (removed or whole guild disdbanded):
Takes 80% of all favor points he earnt for the guild (that has not decayed) and 40% is transferred to his new guild.


Rewarding a player that leaves a guild out of anger/spite/just to grief the guild is a bad, bad thing to encourage, even if the reason for leaving the guild was just.

I could agree that if a guild is DISBANDED that you can take 1/2 of your non decayed renown with you, to carry over for the next guild you join, that seems fair, because there are 'accidental' disbands (further down in suggestions is a prime example) and there are guild leaders that just have no idea of what they are getting into, or just plain want to grief the rest of the guild, and that would allow the disbanded members that DID work, and pull trophies/heroic deed to benefit the rest to not get too discouraged to want to help the next guild they join in the same way. THAT I could agree is not a bad idea.

Absolutely against rewarding a person for leaving a guild though, no matter the reason, because no matter how you look at it, they are punishing the guild with a renown loss by leaving the guild and that in no way should be given as a gift to a new guild under those circumstances.

Doxmaster
07-18-2011, 04:40 PM
Rewarding a player that leaves a guild out of anger/spite/just to grief the guild is a bad, bad thing to encourage, even if the reason for leaving the guild was just.

I could agree that if a guild is DISBANDED that you can take 1/2 of your non decayed renown with you, to carry over for the next guild you join, that seems fair, because there are 'accidental' disbands (further down in suggestions is a prime example) and there are guild leaders that just have no idea of what they are getting into, or just plain want to grief the rest of the guild, and that would allow the disbanded members that DID work, and pull trophies/heroic deed to benefit the rest to not get too discouraged to want to help the next guild they join in the same way. THAT I could agree is not a bad idea.

Absolutely against rewarding a person for leaving a guild though, no matter the reason, because no matter how you look at it, they are punishing the guild with a renown loss by leaving the guild and that in no way should be given as a gift to a new guild under those circumstances.

Ok...wait. You are ok with people taking renown with them if the guild is messed up by an incompetent leader but...don't want people to take renown with them if they personally realize that they have an incompetent leader?

puget
07-18-2011, 04:43 PM
Ok...wait. You are ok with people taking renown with them if the guild is messed up by an incompetent leader but...don't want people to take renown with them if they personally realize that they have an incompetent leader?


Exactly.

One is completely different over the other. guild disbands, players have worked to grab all trophies/heroic deed then player should be able to not see that wasted.

Player gets in a snit and wants to be an arsehat and punish guild, whatever the reason, even if they just want to nicely move on, player should not reward second guild after leaving first guild and costing them.

Just my feelings. yours may vary.

EDIT: Does not matter how I feel, the programming for this to differentiate one between the other will never happen, because the work would be too overwhelming for an overwhelmed staff of devs already. So in either case I have no doubt they will ever see the light of day, so stating how I feel, at the end of the day changes nothing.

JOTMON
07-18-2011, 04:53 PM
Was thinking more along the line of you leave a guild .. good terms or bad ..that part doesnt matter...
You take 50% of your renown with you.
Join new guild you contribute that 50% to the guild.
If you quit the new guild you still only take 50% of what you had.
so if you join and quit guilds, you lose 50% every time.

Thinking more along the lines of guild is falling apart, half the guild want to reform. currently you quit the guild, you start at 0. Everything you have done to that point is now gone.

Musouka
07-18-2011, 04:54 PM
Was thinking more along the line of you leave a guild .. good terms or bad ..that part doesnt matter...
You take 50% of your renown with you.
Join new guild you contribute that 50% to the guild.
If you quit the new guild you still only take 50% of what you had.
so if you join and quit guilds, you lose 50% every time.

Thinking more along the lines of guild is falling apart, half the guild want to reform. currently you quit the guild, you start at 0. Everything you have done to that point is now gone.

You're thinking of extenuating circumstances... if they were to allow something like this just for those who might have that exact situation, it would get abused by those not in that situation.

Dysmetria
07-18-2011, 04:57 PM
When someone leaves a guild and joins a new guild a portion of their guild renown should carry with them.
Everytime they leave a guild they lose more, but a guild that reforms loses everything and has to join an existing guild or start from scratch.This seems like a bad idea to me. Some guilds would start recruiting only those that bring a certain amount of renown with them.

If a guild doesn't want to lose all their renown, then they should simply not reform, or like you mentioned, merge into an existing guild.

Vengenance
07-18-2011, 06:30 PM
Here is the jist of it, the renown may be guild renown, but it's renown you earned. You took the renown rewards instead of the weapon you could sell, you grinded those quests and pulled the renown as rewards, the renown may be guild renown but the player earned it. It should be something that the player could decide to take with him if he/she decides to move to another guild.

I don't think you should be able to take everything, but a percentage of what "you" earned should be allowed to stay with you when you leave guild and should be applied to your new guild.

puget
07-18-2011, 07:23 PM
Here is the jist of it, the renown may be guild renown, but it's renown you earned. You took the renown rewards instead of the weapon you could sell, you grinded those quests and pulled the renown as rewards, the renown may be guild renown but the player earned it. It should be something that the player could decide to take with him if he/she decides to move to another guild.

I don't think you should be able to take everything, but a percentage of what "you" earned should be allowed to stay with you when you leave guild and should be applied to your new guild.

The problems arise from buttockfaces and jerks that will abuse it. Have you ever heard anyone say that one bad apple spoiled the bunch? Prime example and there is nothing that you, or me, or every player,dev,GM, or person sitting on the board of directors at Warner Brothers can do to stop the abuse other doing EXACTLY what has been done. And even NOW what is there is constantly abused.

So no, I avid do not sign taking guild renown with you when you quit a guild, and if people were to think of WHY you can't they may understand a bit.

EDIT millions of players lost to DDO and many,many other mmos.

Start going towards this trend and this game will go dead downhill just like another big MMO that has lost millions of players TO DDO because of the arsehats and flamers.

There should never be a mechanic in a game that caters to abusing other players. This would promote that.

Musouka
07-18-2011, 07:30 PM
You took the renown rewards instead of the weapon you could sell, you grinded those quests and pulled the renown as rewards, the renown may be guild renown but the player earned it.

Renown isn't only given in rewards. As far as the trophies go, you earn more renown from chests than you do from rewards. Then you also have the passive guild renown game that you get as you quest and kill mobs, or as your party kills mobs.

Just being in a guild doesn't mean you're questing just to earn them renown. A lot of people do it to gain XP and powerful items, as well as party with friends and have conversation while playing a game.

puget
07-18-2011, 07:33 PM
Renown isn't only given in rewards. As far as the trophies go, you earn more renown from chests than you do from rewards. Then you also have the passive guild renown game that you get as you quest and kill mobs, or as your party kills mobs.

Just being in a guild doesn't mean you're questing just to earn them renown. A lot of people do it to gain XP and powerful items, as well as party with friends and have conversation while playing a game.

Your kiddin right?

Dysmetria
07-18-2011, 08:15 PM
Here is the jist of it, the renown may be guild renown, but it's renown you earned. You took the renown rewards instead of the weapon you could sell, you grinded those quests and pulled the renown as rewards, the renown may be guild renown but the player earned it. It should be something that the player could decide to take with him if he/she decides to move to another guild.

I don't think you should be able to take everything, but a percentage of what "you" earned should be allowed to stay with you when you leave guild and should be applied to your new guild.You chose to loot those renown items instead of the weapon you could sell, so that renown would be applied to the guild you were in at the time.

If you do not want to earn renown for that guild, simply loot the weapon or leave the guild and join the one you do want to earn renown for instead.

Pape_27
07-18-2011, 08:31 PM
Renown isn't only given in rewards. As far as the trophies go, you earn more renown from chests than you do from rewards. Then you also have the passive guild renown game that you get as you quest and kill mobs, or as your party kills mobs.

Just being in a guild doesn't mean you're questing just to earn them renown. A lot of people do it to gain XP and powerful items, as well as party with friends and have conversation while playing a game.

On the other hand, no one is forcing you to take those renown rewards over a weapon. Its your choice.

Most people do take them though. Why? usually its because they like the amenities and benefits of being in a leveling guild. A nice shiny ship, stat buffs, to hit bonuses, resistances etc...

I have to ask though, who pays for all of that? In my guild, the guild leader pays for it all. Some 120k per month for shrines, altars, and assorted crewmen. Basically, people in the guild get rewarded for grabbing that renown.

because its an intertwined relationship between guild and player while they are in a guild, i would say no to the op's suggestion.

_

Musouka
07-18-2011, 11:59 PM
On the other hand, no one is forcing you to take those renown rewards over a weapon. Its your choice.

Most people do take them though. Why? usually its because they like the amenities and benefits of being in a leveling guild. A nice shiny ship, stat buffs, to hit bonuses, resistances etc...

I have to ask though, who pays for all of that? In my guild, the guild leader pays for it all. Some 120k per month for shrines, altars, and assorted crewmen. Basically, people in the guild get rewarded for grabbing that renown.

because its an intertwined relationship between guild and player while they are in a guild, i would say no to the op's suggestion.

_

I'm just an officer, and the last few weeks I've been dumping into the amenities... I even made sure to buy the last of the diamonds we needed when we hit 55 to buy the new ship.

Don't get me wrong about my previous posts, I do enjoy being in a guild, but in no way can I support being able to take your guild XP (renown) with you to other guilds. You're basically making players paid athletes if you do that.