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fn_Chopper
07-16-2011, 05:50 PM
Had an idea today while playing..

I lead a relatively large guild. We get many a question from members saying "How do I know how much renown I've earned?" and the answer to this question is .. you don't. You can hover over the guild renown bar and it'll tell you how much renown you've pulled, but since that total doesn't include renown decay, you can't tell if you're helping or hurting the guild. Similarly I can't tell if any particular character in the guild is helping or hurting the guild .. there's just a list of characters, with no renown information.

I'd like to suggest that the character specific renown earnings should be adjusted by the amount of decay the toon has cost the guild. Of course, decay is account specific and renown is character specific .. but I'd imagine that it wouldn't be too horrendous to divide the decay amongst the characters linked to an account ... or just charge it against the most recently active toon.

Further to this, it would be wonderful to display (in the guild member list) which members were in renown deficit .. perhaps in a different color? These sorts of simple little changes could be very useful.

TheDearLeader
07-16-2011, 06:00 PM
Yanno... if your guildies care that much.. they could do the math themselves.

I say the above as someone who was curious, and *has* done the math themselves.

Example : I took my high-renown-earners (my 4 level 20s in EW). I swapped toons, gathering their renown amounts.

I put them all on an Excel spreadsheet, then added them together.

Then, I calculated the days from when U5 went live (June 28th, 2010) to the date that I took those values. There are online tools (http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html) to make this easier.

I found that, up to that point, I had been earning the guild approximately 5k Renown/Day.

Well, say EW has 100 as the Modified account size. I actually haven't checked recently, but it's a nice round number, so I like it. It makes the following math easier.

So, I am 1 Account of 100. I earn 5k/renown average a day.

This means that unless our Guild Renown Decay reaches over 500k lost/day, then I have "earned my keep", so to speak. Last I checked, which admittedly has been a while, our decay was more like 120k or something.

So there you go... no super complex formulas. Just some arithmetic.

The other way to consider it : Say we had 120k decay/day, and 100 accounts. That means each account would have to each 120,000/100, or 1200 Renown/Day, to break even on renown values each day.

For a while, I also used it to track my renown earned per certain periods. As long as you record the dates that you collect your values, you can begin to see where you have high, and low, periods of renown earnings.

Nysrock
07-16-2011, 06:04 PM
Sounds like that would cause a LOT of drama and a lot of kicking people from guilds. If I have 5 characters in a guild but I mainly play 1 you will only see that 1 is earning renown. So that would probably cause some guild leaders to kick these lower earners from the guild because there is no way to tell they are all on one account.

For myself I have no problems with how it is working atm. But everyone has their own opinion.:)

Ungood
07-16-2011, 06:09 PM
Further to this, it would be wonderful to display (in the guild member list) which members were in renown deficit .. perhaps in a different color? These sorts of simple little changes could be very useful.

This has been brought up before, and the long and short of it is, it would be nothing but a kick list.

/Not Singed.

TheDearLeader
07-16-2011, 06:20 PM
Ah yes, I should probably add...

While I did go to the trouble, I did it as an idle curiosity. Never would I want to be held to a quota, nor would I expect to be required to report my renown earnings.

HelvanderSeries6
07-16-2011, 06:20 PM
This has been brought up before, and the long and short of it is, it would be nothing but a kick list.

/Not Singed.

agreed or perhaps a price list.

fn_Chopper
07-16-2011, 06:34 PM
TheDearLeader: This is a game. I know some enjoy crunching the numbers, keeping records etc. But most players want to play. And while your method would work for someone who was in a guild since update 5 .. it wouldn't work for:
- Players changing guilds
- New players (cha-ching!)
- Guilds with variable renown decay (ie. a guild that changes size over time)
The player would need to make and keep records of when every character was created, when every character joined (every) guild they were in and what the number of active guild members was in the guild every day. So even with all of your effort .. your figures are only estimates.. why do all of this if the game can *easily* do it for you?

Nysrock: Sure, it might be a bit of a problem if the renown decay was deducted from an inactive character, but where's the harm of deducting the renown decay of an active character? And if you're not playing an alt and have it in the guild, why do you care if it's in the guild or not? You'd be hard pressed to have an active toon that isn't earning renown..

Ungood: Yep, it would be a kick list. You say it like it's a bad thing .. what would be wrong with being able to see which characters can be kicked from the guild without hurting the guild's renown? Call me a nutter but it seems a lot more sensible than kicking random inactive players from the guild..

fn_Chopper
07-16-2011, 06:36 PM
agreed or perhaps a price list.

Do you have an opinion on the idea of allowing a player to see their own toon's renown?

Nysrock
07-16-2011, 06:40 PM
TheDearLeader: This is a game. I know some enjoy crunching the numbers, keeping records etc. But most players want to play. And while your method would work for someone who was in a guild since update 5 .. it wouldn't work for:
- Players changing guilds
- New players (cha-ching!)
- Guilds with variable renown decay (ie. a guild that changes size over time)
The player would need to make and keep records of when every character was created, when every character joined (every) guild they were in and what the number of active guild members was in the guild every day. So even with all of your effort .. your figures are only estimates.. why do all of this if the game can *easily* do it for you?

Nysrock: Sure, it might be a bit of a problem if the renown decay was deducted from an inactive character, but where's the harm of deducting the renown decay of an active character? And if you're not playing an alt and have it in the guild, why do you care if it's in the guild or not? You'd be hard pressed to have an active toon that isn't earning renown..

Ungood: Yep, it would be a kick list. You say it like it's a bad thing .. what would be wrong with being able to see which characters can be kicked from the guild without hurting the guild's renown? Call me a nutter but it seems a lot more sensible than kicking random inactive players from the guild..

Just because I have a flavor of the moment and play that character more then another doesn't mean I will never play that other character. And when I do play I'd want to use the guild ship for buffs. It does not matter if you play all 10 characters in a guild or just 1 as the decay, and renown bonus, is per ACCOUNT not per character. And the problem with showing decay and/or renown per character is like others said, it would be nothing but a kickfest. Same as if we started letting leaders kick party members from quests once inside. They did that once but it is a very bad idea.

Uska
07-16-2011, 06:44 PM
NO thanks

fn_Chopper
07-16-2011, 06:47 PM
And the problem with showing decay and/or renown per character is like others said, it would be nothing but a kickfest

Okay, I see your point. It was never my intention to 'target' specific toons for kicking .. but just to be able to manage the kicking (which is already happening) better than I can currently. But you're right, other ppl might not behave in a similar fashion.

But that doesn't negate the main point, providing players with accurate renown contribution info for their own purposes. If there wasn't a kick-list, then the account renown decay could be evenly split amongst an account's characters in the guild.

I can't see any harm in this, and I'm certain there are players in our guild who would find it useful..

TheDearLeader
07-16-2011, 06:56 PM
TheDearLeader: This is a game. I know some enjoy crunching the numbers, keeping records etc. But most players want to play. And while your method would work for someone who was in a guild since update 5 .. it wouldn't work for:
- Players changing guilds
- New players (cha-ching!)
- Guilds with variable renown decay (ie. a guild that changes size over time)
The player would need to make and keep records of when every character was created, when every character joined (every) guild they were in and what the number of active guild members was in the guild every day. So even with all of your effort .. your figures are only estimates.. why do all of this if the game can *easily* do it for you?


You say the game can do it easily. I say when's the last time you worked for Turbine's DDO department?

To answer your question, it's simple. If they want to know if they are earning their keep (which should be a PERSONAL thing), they do what I suggested later for recording renown in intervals.

Record Renown on Day "A".
Wait a week.
Record Renown on Day "A+7", or "B".
(B-A)/7 = Renown/day for that account. Parameters of time can be widened according to the person's desire.

Also, Re:Guild level changing, and therefore decay changing.

Guild levels *normally* go up, until the point where they reach equilibrium. Renown decay also grows to be higher. So, if they are still "earning their keep" on Day B, they were definitely earning it on Day A.




Ungood: Yep, it would be a kick list. You say it like it's a bad thing .. what would be wrong with being able to see which characters can be kicked from the guild without hurting the guild's renown? Call me a nutter but it seems a lot more sensible than kicking random inactive players from the guild..

Could it be because the game, and Guilds, are about more than numbers?

fn_Chopper
07-16-2011, 07:39 PM
You say the game can do it easily. I say when's the last time you worked for Turbine's DDO department?

Never. I'm just a Software Engineer with loads of experience. So it's just an educated guess, which is why I said "if" as in "if the game can *easily* do it for you" .. note the if, it's very important there :)

Is there any reason you would shoot it down in flames without good reason? Because it sounds like you agree with the idea in principle, but still think it shouldn't be done?



Record Renown on Day "A".
Wait a week.
Record Renown on Day "A+7", or "B".
(B-A)/7 = Renown/day for that account. Parameters of time can be widened according to the person's desire.

It's arduous for a guildie to try to figure out whether they're contributing. After all, you did the sums yourself. If it's a pain in the butt for Turbine to do or there's a good reason not to do it .. then I'd agree with you, forget it. Since I know that it would be useful, I've yet to see a cogent argument as to why it shouldn't be done?


Could it be because the game, and Guilds, are about more than numbers?

I'm not trying to build a guild to raise my hand and say "lookamaguild!!!". I'm trying to build a wicked airship cause it's awesome fun .. and I love having the buffs, makes the game soooo much better to play. Didn't you notice? xD

TheDearLeader
07-16-2011, 07:49 PM
Never. I'm just a Software Engineer with loads of experience. So it's just an educated guess, which is why I said "if" as in "if the game can *easily* do it for you" .. note the if, it's very important there :)

Funny how everyone on these forums is an expert with code...


Is there any reason you would shoot it down in flames without good reason? Because it sounds like you agree with the idea in principle, but still think it shouldn't be done?

I think you're missing out on the social aspect of an MMORPG, and just want a bunch of high-renown grinders to get you more digital shinies. This is exactly the reason why I don't want such a mechanism implemented.


It's arduous for a guildie to try to figure out whether they're contributing. After all, you did the sums yourself. If it's a pain in the butt for Turbine to do or there's a good reason not to do it .. then I'd agree with you, forget it. Since I know that it would be useful, I've yet to see a cogent argument as to why it shouldn't be done?

If it's that "arduous", that difficult, to add, then divide, then perhaps you should just stop worrying about it?

Also, you're probably the fifth thread this week about someone asking for the same thing. I'm sorry that the 50 people that said no, and gave tangible, common-sense reasons for NOT implementing this sort of system didn't come to grace your particular thread with the same amount of care and attention.


I'm not trying to build a guild to raise my hand and say "lookamaguild!!!". I'm trying to build a wicked airship cause it's awesome fun .. and I love having the buffs, makes the game soooo much better to play. Didn't you notice? xD

I have fun playing the game. I have fun completing quests. I have fun socializing. I don't have fun excluding people based upon the amount of digital points they've approved to give me more digital things.

fn_Chopper
07-16-2011, 10:42 PM
Why in gods name do I waste my time?

insaneuou
07-16-2011, 10:55 PM
Big time drama causing idea

HelvanderSeries6
07-16-2011, 10:56 PM
Do you have an opinion on the idea of allowing a player to see their own toon's renown?

yes i do.
As a private endeavor i would not mind seeing a more detailed account of my contribution/decay, but as public record
my opinion is that this will cause more trouble its worth and for the most obvious and plain as day reasons.

Hakushi
07-17-2011, 12:04 AM
To calculate the decay your guild is getting each day, this guide (http://filespace.amitykeepers.eu/Jontas/GRDCalc.html) is very useful.

Take the number you get and divide it by the modified accounts number your guild has (XX Active Accounts - YY Inactive Accounts + ZZ Recent Departures). Mouse over your guild level to see those numbers. The number is the decay each accounts in your guild provide. Be aware that this is only a small part to know if an account is contributing or nerfing your guild.

Let's say your guild get 30,000 average reknown decay each day. Let's put an average of 200 decay for each account. Also, the most imoportant part, the variation of % from the guild bonus. Let's say it's a medium guild, and adding a new member is a loss of 3% of your Reknown Bonus. So 30k is your total reknown including that 3% (The real % would be lower than 3%, approximately 2.91% but let's use 3%) which means that 3% of 30k is 900.

Now you get 200 + 900 for a total of 1,100. This is the approximative number of Reknown a new member in that guild needs to bring to not hurt it. If he's getting less than that he's nerfing the guild. Adding new members won't hurt large guilds nearly as much as smaller guilds since small guilds have a much higher % change when a member is added or removed while large members don't have any modifiers. A new member in a large guild only need to bring the amount of decay he produces to contribute, while someone joining a small guild needs a lot more, but he get the small guild bonus to help out.

The Reknown Decay system specifically hurts causual players since they can't bring the daily reknown a regular player can. I hope this helped out.

-Edit- Also the decay is Accounts based, and not character based, if someone have 20 characters in a guild, he contribute the same decay as someone with only 2 characters, and someone 20 characters will end up getting less reknown on each character vs someone with only 2 character if they play the same amount of time. Someone who have characters in different guilds will usually end up nerfing all these guilds instead of helping them.

Dysmetria
07-17-2011, 12:07 AM
Okay, I see your point. It was never my intention to 'target' specific toons for kicking .. but just to be able to manage the kicking (which is already happening) better than I can currently. But you're right, other ppl might not behave in a similar fashion.Kicking wouldn't be the only issue. Many guilds would only recruit those that could show via screenshot that they could earn a certain amount of renown per week.

dragonofsteel
07-17-2011, 12:21 AM
This has been brought up before, and the long and short of it is, it would be nothing but a kick list.

/Not Singed.

Lmao you don't really think hard to figure out who not getting renown for the guild. Yeah it would be hard scrolling down the list saying hmm Joe plays 2 hours a week, mike 3 hours we losing renown of late someone not pulling there weight. Hmm the renown system created kick list. Create a list that all guildmates can see just defines it more.

dragonofsteel
07-17-2011, 12:47 AM
Kicking wouldn't be the only issue. Many guilds would only recruit those that could show via screenshot that they could earn a certain amount of renown per week.

You really think that does not happen already. What game do you play p. I seen guild kick ton peeps and will not accept toons unless they know they going to help with guild renown. Wake up when they came out with this system they create reason to kick peeps, all tools like this do is make it more define. Less mistake if that what the guild wants, you must pull 10k renown a week to join this guild.. Ok I will do this, player pulling 5k a week. Seems like on enough to pull 10k stays in the guild awhile. Even though the player has broke the guild rule he hides it, because wants to be in the high level guild. Even though they are making others pull there weight. Yeah so if the guild is worry about guild levels you deserved to get kicked. Join a guild that does not care and wants more of casual players p.

Reality you think its fair that your account does not take decay... Lets say you earn 20k guild renown that year and we took 40k renown hit for you being in the guild. Then you get to take another 35% or whatever it is for being booted lmao. Yes this a great system. Grand total minus 27k guild renown for player "A". So what have you done again for the guild?

Now if the guild is all casual players and does not care fine or if mix guild and does not care fine. Though I see no reason to limit the tools of guild leader of ones that do care. It is there guild, they have every right to make rules they want follow. They should by all means be afforded the tools to make sure you meet the requirements, there nothing saying you have to be in there guild period. You do not have to be in that guild, this is not part of DDO.

In turn what I get from these post is a lot of peeps that want in high level guilds, but do not want to pull there own weight in them. No list because guilds might boot me for not reaching the guild renown they require for me being in this guild.. Yup sounds like whining to me. Again you have the choose to apply to the guild that fits you, not all guilds will. Reality all having a list would change is sneaks getting booted.

Gremmlynn
07-17-2011, 05:24 AM
Actually, it wouldn't be hard at all to account for characters from the same account. Simply compile the numbers based on how much net renown that account earned and list that amount for every character on that account.



It's arduous for a guildie to try to figure out whether they're contributing. After all, you did the sums yourself. If it's a pain in the butt for Turbine to do or there's a good reason not to do it .. then I'd agree with you, forget it. Since I know that it would be useful, I've yet to see a cogent argument as to why it shouldn't be done?
As for a good reason why this wont happen. Well, since F2P came about Turbine has been more or less courting the casual player. It simply wouldn't be in their best interests to add something that causes those who play fewer hours or at a slower pace to be kicked from guilds. It tends to be counter productive to that goal.

Ungood
07-17-2011, 07:24 AM
Ungood: Yep, it would be a kick list. You say it like it's a bad thing .. what would be wrong with being able to see which characters can be kicked from the guild without hurting the guild's renown? Call me a nutter but it seems a lot more sensible than kicking random inactive players from the guild..

I have a novel idea for you, how about you invite the people you actually want to group with into your guild.

Gkar
07-17-2011, 07:35 AM
If people want to know if they are "helping or hurting" your guild from a rewown standpoint, all they have to do is go here: http://ddowiki.com/page/Guild_Renown#Guild_renown_decay_formula and compare how much renown they pick up in a day with the decay rate for your guild level. So if you are a L50 guild, they need to pick up a paulty 95/day to be helping.

herzkos
07-17-2011, 09:31 AM
I have a novel idea for you, how about you invite the people you actually want to group with into your guild.

Because it's not about friendship or camaraderie: it's about the number at the end of the guild name.
It's also about the wonderful buffage provided by an uberly high guild renown.

wasn't a fan of guild renown when it came out, at this point I loathe the guild renown system.

Habreno
07-17-2011, 09:51 AM
While I am /not signed on seeing EVERYONE'S renown income, I would NOT be opposed to seeing the decay I produce when I check my renown that I've taken in.

katz
07-17-2011, 12:00 PM
Because it's not about friendship or camaraderie: it's about the number at the end of the guild name.
It's also about the wonderful buffage provided by an uberly high guild renown.

really? i'm friends with everyone in my guild.

granted, its a small guild, but still.

sad state of affairs when something that's SUPPOSED to be all about friendship and camaraderie is reduced to the exact opposite




wasn't a fan of guild renown when it came out, at this point I loathe the guild renown system.

agreed. it sucks as is :(

Dandonk
07-17-2011, 12:11 PM
sad state of affairs when something that's SUPPOSED to be all about friendship and camaraderie is reduced to the exact opposite

This.

Guilds used to be all about having fun ad making friends. Now (some) guilds are just about the buffs. This is sad, but that's what the mechanic encourages.

Luckily my own guild is still based on friendship - a small group of ex-devourers who have known each other for years. (and no, we still haven't grown up)

mournbladereigns
07-17-2011, 12:20 PM
You really think that does not happen already. What game do you play p. I seen guild kick ton peeps and will not accept toons unless they know they going to help with guild renown. Wake up when they came out with this system they create reason to kick peeps, all tools like this do is make it more define. Less mistake if that what the guild wants, you must pull 10k renown a week to join this guild.. Ok I will do this, player pulling 5k a week. Seems like on enough to pull 10k stays in the guild awhile. Even though the player has broke the guild rule he hides it, because wants to be in the high level guild. Even though they are making others pull there weight. Yeah so if the guild is worry about guild levels you deserved to get kicked. Join a guild that does not care and wants more of casual players p.

Reality you think its fair that your account does not take decay... Lets say you earn 20k guild renown that year and we took 40k renown hit for you being in the guild. Then you get to take another 35% or whatever it is for being booted lmao. Yes this a great system. Grand total minus 27k guild renown for player "A". So what have you done again for the guild?

Now if the guild is all casual players and does not care fine or if mix guild and does not care fine. Though I see no reason to limit the tools of guild leader of ones that do care. It is there guild, they have every right to make rules they want follow. They should by all means be afforded the tools to make sure you meet the requirements, there nothing saying you have to be in there guild period. You do not have to be in that guild, this is not part of DDO.

In turn what I get from these post is a lot of peeps that want in high level guilds, but do not want to pull there own weight in them. No list because guilds might boot me for not reaching the guild renown they require for me being in this guild.. Yup sounds like whining to me. Again you have the choose to apply to the guild that fits you, not all guilds will. Reality all having a list would change is sneaks getting booted.


Umm, /Not signed, no reason for turbine to waste dev time (They need to fix crafting) to make it easier for players of the above mindset to be better guild gestapo.

If it's it that important to you, get a spreadsheet and waterboard your guildies yourself regarding their efforts. That'll teach thos f'ing sneaks! No BUFFS 4 YOU SLACKER!

herzkos
07-17-2011, 12:33 PM
really? i'm friends with everyone in my guild.

granted, its a small guild, but still.

sad state of affairs when something that's SUPPOSED to be all about friendship and camaraderie is reduced to the exact opposite
(

I'm at most a relative stranger to the members of my guild and I constantly debate whether I should boot the
slackers out of my guild. then I remember that it's

a guild of one :D

Hakushi
07-18-2011, 12:50 AM
If people want to know if they are "helping or hurting" your guild from a rewown standpoint, all they have to do is go here: http://ddowiki.com/page/Guild_Renown#Guild_renown_decay_formula and compare how much renown they pick up in a day with the decay rate for your guild level. So if you are a L50 guild, they need to pick up a paulty 95/day to be helping.

That's only true if it's a large guild with no reknown bonus at all. If you join a guild, and their guild bonus have been lowered by 10%, you have to contribute to that amount to not nerf it.

This suggestion would not be viable imo because it would be a character based solution while the decay is account based, you could end up booting the mules or inactive characters of a very active player brigning a lot of reknown to your guild.

Hakushi
07-18-2011, 12:55 AM
While I am /not signed on seeing EVERYONE'S renown income, I would NOT be opposed to seeing the decay I produce when I check my renown that I've taken in.

That's something I wouldn't hate to see as well, but it would have to be seperated from the actual contribution we can see since the decay is reduced daily reguardless of the number of characters you have in the guild. If you were part of 5 different guilds, you would be contributing a lot of decay for all those guilds seperately.

Cendaer
07-18-2011, 01:52 AM
Had an idea today while playing..

I lead a relatively large guild. We get many a question from members saying "How do I know how much renown I've earned?" and the answer to this question is .. you don't. You can hover over the guild renown bar and it'll tell you how much renown you've pulled, but since that total doesn't include renown decay, you can't tell if you're helping or hurting the guild. Similarly I can't tell if any particular character in the guild is helping or hurting the guild .. there's just a list of characters, with no renown information.

I'd like to suggest that the character specific renown earnings should be adjusted by the amount of decay the toon has cost the guild. Of course, decay is account specific and renown is character specific .. but I'd imagine that it wouldn't be too horrendous to divide the decay amongst the characters linked to an account ... or just charge it against the most recently active toon.

Further to this, it would be wonderful to display (in the guild member list) which members were in renown deficit .. perhaps in a different color? These sorts of simple little changes could be very useful.

Sounds good at first, but...

It will surely be a source of high drama amongst the members of a guild.

Just as one example:
What if everyone except for a few poor souls use guild renown elixirs all the time? The poor folks who can't afford them will always be at the bottom of the renown list, and thus will probably be branded as those who are "hurting the guild."

Perhaps such specific data isn't such a good idea.

jaegarnel
09-19-2011, 11:31 AM
Personally I think guilds should be about people you have fun playing and chatting with.
Who cares about how much renown they contribute if you have fun with them?

Frankly, I think that guild renown and ship buffs are a bad thing for the game, for two reasons:

They make lower level content trivial for any character who's part of a high renown guild, no matter how gimp they are. Seriously, 30 resists at level 1?
It's fine for vets who would zerg through the content anyway, just saves them a few minutes, but it also enables new players to smash through low content easily without any need for tactics. Then other people complain that those newbies have made it to lvl 10 or higher without learning anything about the game or how to be slightly self sufficient.

They make many people only care about joining high level guilds for the buffs. That can cause problems for guilds, because instead of being groups of people who spend time together, they often end up being groups of relative strangers who never talk to each other.
I'm part of a big guild on Ghallanda, we have around 200 active accounts, and yet it's always the same 30 or so people we hear in guild chat. Taking different time zones and such into account that means at least half the guild doesn't get anything out of being in it except buffs, since they never ask for more people to group with or anything else.
This is, imo, a bad thing, but maybe most players don't agree.


TL, DR: /not signed

janave
09-19-2011, 02:49 PM
Personally I think guilds should be about people you have fun playing and chatting with.
Who cares about how much renown they contribute if you have fun with them?

Frankly, I think that guild renown and ship buffs are a bad thing for the game, for two reasons:

They make lower level content trivial for any character who's part of a high renown guild, no matter how gimp they are. Seriously, 30 resists at level 1?
It's fine for vets who would zerg through the content anyway, just saves them a few minutes, but it also enables new players to smash through low content easily without any need for tactics. Then other people complain that those newbies have made it to lvl 10 or higher without learning anything about the game or how to be slightly self sufficient.

They make many people only care about joining high level guilds for the buffs. That can cause problems for guilds, because instead of being groups of people who spend time together, they often end up being groups of relative strangers who never talk to each other.
I'm part of a big guild on Ghallanda, we have around 200 active accounts, and yet it's always the same 30 or so people we hear in guild chat. Taking different time zones and such into account that means at least half the guild doesn't get anything out of being in it except buffs, since they never ask for more people to group with or anything else.
This is, imo, a bad thing, but maybe most players don't agree.


TL, DR: /not signed

The resist shrines are - in their current form - sort of unbalancing,.. has been brought up several times before. The same restrictions of the spell version should apply, that is no 30 resist till lvl 11 (as far as i remember correctly).

The +2 stat shrines are good, but not too powerful, however combined with the House-NPCs, some casters gain very meaningful spell dc buff.

sry for the minor derail

Devonian
09-19-2011, 03:05 PM
I'm all for it, but then, honestly I'm of the opinion that a guild should be composed of people who actually like each other and want to game with each other as opposed to a bunch of buff hungry strangers eyeing each others renown inputs like a bunch of Randian supermen determined not to allow a single second of their work to help, even tangentially, the 'undeserving'.

If a guild kicks you because you don't chip in enough renown into the pot (barring violations of an explicit social contract that you entered into) its a lucky escape (and actually, possibly even then if your approach to DDO and play-style are at odds with what is expected)

Aphion
09-19-2011, 04:07 PM
Personally I think guilds should be about people you have fun playing and chatting with.
Who cares about how much renown they contribute if you have fun with them?

Frankly, I think that guild renown and ship buffs are a bad thing for the game, for two reasons:

They make lower level content trivial for any character who's part of a high renown guild, no matter how gimp they are. Seriously, 30 resists at level 1?
It's fine for vets who would zerg through the content anyway, just saves them a few minutes, but it also enables new players to smash through low content easily without any need for tactics. Then other people complain that those newbies have made it to lvl 10 or higher without learning anything about the game or how to be slightly self sufficient.

They make many people only care about joining high level guilds for the buffs. That can cause problems for guilds, because instead of being groups of people who spend time together, they often end up being groups of relative strangers who never talk to each other.
I'm part of a big guild on Ghallanda, we have around 200 active accounts, and yet it's always the same 30 or so people we hear in guild chat. Taking different time zones and such into account that means at least half the guild doesn't get anything out of being in it except buffs, since they never ask for more people to group with or anything else.
This is, imo, a bad thing, but maybe most players don't agree.


TL, DR: /not signed

Very much agree with this post above. It should be about friendship and playing together. This is why the guild in my sig was created shortly after renown was introduced. It has our friends in it and no one else. Not all of our friends are in it but you get the idea. We constantly level and play together. Most of our play time is spent this way shortmanning with each other. We pug sometimes too but dont actively recruit anyone. We poke fun at each other and have fun doing so.

We dont care what our guild level is or how much renown we gain. We arent mindless atomatons built to increase some imaginary fake fame number. While I technically hold the leader title they know I dont consider myself its overlord in any sense of the word. They have just as much say in what goes into it as I do. Its a small guild of 5 real people+many alts and we like it that way.

TheDearLeader
09-19-2011, 04:11 PM
Didn't we kill this thread two months ago?

Oh wait - someone in opposition to the idea decided to arbitrarily bump the topic back to the top. That's a good way to oppose something - highlight it, rather than letting it fall into obscurity.