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Failedlegend
07-11-2011, 12:15 AM
First I must note these are separate and its not expected that ALL of them will be included.

Anyways here goes nothing:

1. Traps need to actually pose a viable threat as opposed to a minor inconvenience

2. We need a reliable way to supply ourselves with ammo...possibly using trap parts...make unique bolts like web bolts (Should probably be BtC) or make it so they aren't consumed when used (don't stack only need 1) but have durability like a ranged weapon

3. Trap Parts need to be more Readily available (In-Game) & Trapmaking in general needs an overhaul.

4. We need to keep the construct theme but actually make it useful (ie. Make it so all our weapons are construct/living construct bane...each tier gets better)

5. Some minor bonuses to round out the pre ie. +x UMD, to-hit bonuses, etc.

6. Fix enhancements, equipment,etc. to actually work with ranged especially aggro reducers (frankly ranged should naturally cause less hate generation)

7. Increase clip size for repeaters to 5~8ish (maybe Tier 1 = 4 Bolts, Tier 2 = 6 Bolts, Tier 3 = 7 or 8 Bolts)

8. Possibly gain some Construct bonuses (or for WF Mechs make it additive so instead of a base +25% make it +50% and instead of being immune to poison make him actually regen hp from it or something)

9. A Base Speed increase to reload and/or firing speed with each tier (stacks with everything)

10. Mechanics can sneak/crit constructs, ignoring part or all of fortification.

11. Reduce the search and disarm time on traps at each tier of Mechanic. Make search/disarm instant for Tier III. (also make it slightly faster with every level of vanilla rogue but mech has huge difference)

12. Be able to save against traps on a 1 (IOW no critical fail)

13. DR against ranged weapons (bow,xbow,thrown daggers,etc.)

14. Give Mechs a Construct pet that starts off Small at Tier 1, than medium at tier 2 and Large at tier 3. The bigger it is the more threat it creates and the more damage it does (I'll leave the exact numbers to experts/devs) when you take the enhancement you should be able to choose what type (Biped, Quadruped,etc.) each with its own strengths and weaknesses. Give it a control system similar to Hirelings (add its hp just at the top left of the bar) except it doesn't take a party slot. Maybe make is so you can use the repair skill to heal it a bit (repair kit unneeded at tier 2) repair spell would work as well

15. Mech 3 Grants Great Xbow prof and using their mechanical genius they can use trap parts to make them into repeaters (Alternatively any GX-Bows they use work as repeaters)

Also here's a class I discovered when mucking around on the net and the Mech prestige could take some cool stuff from it (or if they redo the trapmaking system)

Gadgeteer (http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Gadgeteer)



Also here's something cool from Eladrin for fellow Mechs in the unlikely event you missed it


I can talk a little about that...

I've completely rescripted crossbows and repeating crossbows for Update 11. The desynchronization issues that have plagued repeaters should be a thing of the past.

We've changed their use behavior a bit though - crossbow use will been broken apart into two actions: Fire, and Reload. This lets you load a crossbow, run around with it, fire off a quick opening shot when you see a monster, and then immediately start casting spells (if applicable) or switch to a different weapon, instead of having to wait for the reload animation to complete. The "attack" button handles both of these. (Click to attack, then click to reload. If you hold the mouse button down or use autoattack, it should smoothly go from one to the other.)

Repeating Crossbows will always fire their three round burst with a single "attack" action. Click! Thunk-thunk-thunk. Click! Reload. As before, repeating crossbows function as regular crossbows in the hands of a non-proficient user.

Rapid Reload is now also significantly more noticeable.

Great Crossbows (in the hands of a proficient user) now knock most opponents over on a confirmed natural 20, no save.

rendorax
07-11-2011, 01:18 PM
First I must note these are separate and its not expected that ALL of them will be included.


OK. I still think some of them are a bit overpowered, though.



1. Traps need to actually pose a viable threat as opposed to a minor inconvenience


I think that they're generally well-balanced, as-is, because nobody should truly be indispensable on Normal. On Hard (and, especially, Elite), traps should probably be doing more damage, but one way to increase their potential lethality (while not making the game too frustrating) is to allow traps to score critical hits. Say, 20/x2 on Norm, 19-20/x2 on Hard, 18-20/x2 (or 19-20/x3) on Elite and Epic. Probably all this would do is cause 90% of all builds to include two levels of monk or rogue, though. Another idea is to hit high hp character where they're weak. Instead of scratching a Barbarian, have the trap trigger a Flesh-to-Stone, Destruction, or Slay Living spell. Also, locked and/or trapped treasure chests would greatly increase the utility of Rogues. Further, I hate all this Blue Key, Red Key ****. Mechanics should be able to pick those locks and save the party the time needed hunting down these ridiculous keys. It's poor level design, anyway.



2. We need a reliable way to supply ourselves with ammo...possibly using trap parts...make unique bolts like web bolts (Should probably be BtC) or make it so they aren't consumed when used (don't stack only need 1) but have durability like a ranged weapon


I guess I don't see the point. Why not just use the House D returning ammo? As far as Bolt of Web, why not just use a Wand of Web?

It's somewhat frustrating that there's almost no crafting at all in this game (though that's slowly changing, with the Cannith crafting), but there are plenty of available options. Allowing Arcane Archers to summon bolts, in addition to arrows, would also help a bit. Then, mixed Rogue/Rangers would be a bit more viable.



3. Trap Parts need to be more Readily available (In-Game) & Trapmaking in general needs an overhaul.


Ugh. I totally agree. I've never heard of a single rogue using trapmaking. I did use it once, in order to kill a construct boss, when I'd foolishly brought nothing to kill him. After I realized my critical error (and panicking for a minute), I made a series of force traps and led him over them repeatedly, until he finally died. I was glad to have trapmaking that day, but it was the one and only time I've used trapmaking. For one thing, how are low level Rogues supposed to get access to Trap the Soul? It seems a bit unfair to saddle them with that requirement. You need to either be part of a decent-sized guild or have an alt who can pass down a continuous supply of soul gems. For high level recipes, OK. But for mid-level recipes? That's just evil. It makes a game mechanic that few people use even more rare.



4. We need to keep the construct theme but actually make it useful (ie. Make it so all our weapons are construct/living construct bane...each tier gets better)


Hmm. That's an idea. Sort of like Knight of the Chalice. That could work, but I'm slightly worried that the combination of Construct Bane, Wrack Construct, Opportunist, and Sneak Attack could make Rogues a bit overpowered. Undead would be their only real weakness. In the end, if it turns out to not be unbalanced, I'd be for it, though.



5. Some minor bonuses to round out the pre ie. +x UMD, to-hit bonuses, etc.


I don't see how that fits. It'd be quite welcome, but I don't see how it fits into the PrE description.



6. Fix enhancements, equipment,etc. to actually work with ranged especially aggro reducers (frankly ranged should naturally cause less hate generation)


I don't see why ranged should cause less hate generation. At low levels (especially in high difficulties), this is a huge problem. Melee types don't realize they can intimidate monsters, healers are don't heal the tank, and everybody is still wearing Korthos gear. Once you get to level 12 or so, people start realizing that they have a role to play, and it's much less of a problem. Granted, if you can out-DPS the tank, then you'll be in hot water (and this happens more often than most Barbarians would care to admit), but a proper tank can mitigate this through increased hate generation, such as using a shield. It's a shame that everyone wants to be DPS, and nobody wants to spend a single action point on tanking ability. Part of this is the belief that Rogues are not a DPS class, and the lack of knowledge of how a Rogue's sneak attack ability works. Many DPS-based melee builds don't realize that a simple Intimidate every few seconds will double the party's overall DPS. Try explaining it to them, and see if they'll start doing it. Like I said, though, this isn't such a problem once you reach level 10-12.



7. Increase clip size for repeaters to 5~8ish (maybe Tier 1 = 4 Bolts, Tier 2 = 6 Bolts, Tier 3 = 7 or 8 Bolts)


Well, I disagree with this. It seems way overpowered. Isn't the Sneak Attack damage good enough that you don't need a machine gun? Does multishot work with crossbows? I forget. If so, you could also take that feat.



8. Possibly gain some Construct bonuses (or for WF Mechs make it additive so instead of a base +25% make it +50% and instead of being immune to poison make him actually regen hp from it or something)


That's interesting. A WF Mechanic who can heal himself could become nearly as popular as WF arcanes. Mechanics could get a bonus to all their Repair spells (including wands and scrolls), or maybe they'd have a bonus to incoming Repair spells, or they could have a series of enhancements that repair constructs, instead of that one low-level one.



9. A Base Speed increase to reload and/or firing speed with each tier (stacks with everything)


Well... again, strikes me as a bit overpowered. You could always take some levels of Ranger, if you're looking to increase your ranged abilities. Again, if AA worked better with crossbows, this would be a more viable suggestion, but there's always Deepwood Sniper.



10. Mechanics can sneak/crit constructs, ignoring part or all of fortification.


Opportunist helps there.



11. Reduce the search and disarm time on traps at each tier of Mechanic. Make search/disarm instant for Tier III. (also make it slightly faster with every level of vanilla rogue but mech has huge difference)


If nothing else, this should be implemented.



12. Be able to save against traps on a 1 (IOW no critical fail)


Hmm. Could work. Might be overpowered.



13. DR against ranged weapons (bow,xbow,thrown daggers,etc.)


Don't see how this is within the scope of the PrE. Use a wand of stoneskin?



14. Give Mechs a Construct pet that starts off Small at Tier 1, than medium at tier 2 and Large at tier 3. The bigger it is the more threat it creates and the more damage it does (I'll leave the exact numbers to experts/devs) when you take the enhancement you should be able to choose what type (Biped, Quadruped,etc.) each with its own strengths and weaknesses. Give it a control system similar to Hirelings (add its hp just at the top left of the bar) except it doesn't take a party slot. Maybe make is so you can use the repair skill to heal it a bit (repair kit unneeded at tier 2) repair spell would work as well


Already implemented. Nobody uses Iron/Steel/Adamantine Defenders, though, as they're kind of underwhelming. If they beefed it up and made it somewhat impressive, maybe people would waste their Action Points on it. But if it's just going to be useful in the low levels, constantly spew grease, and have the same, poor AI as hirelings, I don't really blame people for ignoring it. I'd suggest keeping some Monster Summoning scrolls in your inventory, if you want a pet/summon, but the AI in this game is abysmal. They're often not worth even using, except to take some of the heat off you.



15. Mech 3 Grants Great Xbow prof and using their mechanical genius they can use trap parts to make them into repeaters (Alternatively any GX-Bows they use work as repeaters)


Crazy overpowered. Granted, it only happens near the endgame, but it's still ridiculous, especially when you combine it with the 8 shot clip.

I think some of your ideas are quite good, others can be done through UMD, and the rest could be easily addressed by taking some Ranger levels (perhaps Deepwood Sniper, since Arcane Archer is so biased against crossbows). A 12 mechanic/6 deepwood sniper/2 fighter (or 13 mechanic/7 deepwood sniper) could be lots of fun to play, though I suspect you'd run into all kind of snobs who laugh at your build. I made a character like that once, back when I was new to the game and didn't know that everyone considered mechanics and deepwood snipers to be gimps; it was fun at low levels, even though I didn't have a clue as to what I was doing. I haven't played that character in a while now. Maybe I should go back!

Failedlegend
07-11-2011, 02:17 PM
1. Traps need to actually pose a viable threat as opposed to a minor inconvenience



I think that they're generally well-balanced, as-is, because nobody should truly be indispensable on Normal. On Hard (and, especially, Elite), traps should probably be doing more damage, but one way to increase their potential lethality (while not making the game too frustrating) is to allow traps to score critical hits. Say, 20/x2 on Norm, 19-20/x2 on Hard, 18-20/x2 (or 19-20/x3) on Elite and Epic. Probably all this would do is cause 90% of all builds to include two levels of monk or rogue, though. Another idea is to hit high hp character where they're weak. Instead of scratching a Barbarian, have the trap trigger a Flesh-to-Stone, Destruction, or Slay Living spell. Also, locked and/or trapped treasure chests would greatly increase the utility of Rogues. Further, I hate all this Blue Key, Red Key ****. Mechanics should be able to pick those locks and save the party the time needed hunting down these ridiculous keys. It's poor level design, anyway.

Yeah I like the idea of "spell"/status effect Traps or even so possible insta kill ones...as well as the ability to unlock more doors.



2. We need a reliable way to supply ourselves with ammo...possibly using trap parts...make unique bolts like web bolts (Should probably be BtC) or make it so they aren't consumed when used (don't stack only need 1) but have durability like a ranged weapon



I guess I don't see the point. Why not just use the House D returning ammo?

Mostly because my repeater rogue goes through something like 1000+ bolts a quest and that's on a good day.

The unconsumable single stack idea is partly couple with this idea to make it easier tyo swap between ammo types/quivers'


Currently if you stick a quiver in a hotbar and click on it all it does is open it which is relatively pointless.

Please make it so we can swap quivers by clicking on hotbars it will make things so much easier

Alternatively make its so arrows/bolts aren't consumables and are equipped like weapons (only comes as 1 bolt/arrow but ins't consumed) except in the ammo slot

This sorta came from my idea to make an Elven Kensai2/Mech1/AA that primarily uses a light repeater but smacks slayer arrows, power surge and manyshot when their off cooldown. (I'll post the build at the end for reference)

The main issue being that you cant swap quivers easily...also even without the dual ranged weapon use its a pain to swap from say devil killers to demon killers which are commonly together in quests.



Allowing Arcane Archers to summon bolts, in addition to arrows, would also help a bit. Then, mixed Rogue/Rangers would be a bit more viable.

That would be nice but IIRC the devs said that AA would never work with repeaters.



5. Some minor bonuses to round out the pre ie. +x UMD, to-hit bonuses, etc.



I don't see how that fits. It'd be quite welcome, but I don't see how it fits into the PrE description.

I mostly see mechanics as tinkerers so I though a UMD boost would fit but yeah thats mostly just an example.



6. Fix enhancements, equipment,etc. to actually work with ranged especially aggro reducers (frankly ranged should naturally cause less hate generation)



I don't see why ranged should cause less hate generation.

Mostly cause mobs will feel more apt to fighting thew guy trying to stab him as opposed to the lone archer 30ft away...but I mostly just want all those enhancements that for some dumb reason only effect melee to effect ranged as well (not all of them as some don't make sense for ranged but most of em)



7. Increase clip size for repeaters to 5~8ish (maybe Tier 1 = 4 Bolts, Tier 2 = 6 Bolts, Tier 3 = 7 or 8 Bolts)



Well, I disagree with this. It seems way overpowered. Isn't the Sneak Attack damage good enough that you don't need a machine gun?

Ok I'll admit this one is mostly a...if you do nothing else at least give us this.


Does multishot work with crossbows? I forget. If so, you could also take that feat.

Nope otherwise I'd be all over it.



8. Possibly gain some Construct bonuses (or for WF Mechs make it additive so instead of a base +25% make it +50% and instead of being immune to poison make him actually regen hp from it or something)



That's interesting. A WF Mechanic who can heal himself could become nearly as popular as WF arcanes. Mechanics could get a bonus to all their Repair spells (including wands and scrolls), or maybe they'd have a bonus to incoming Repair spells, or they could have a series of enhancements that repair constructs, instead of that one low-level one.

Yeah have it work similar to the halfling dragonmark line...so as a mechanic you could have an "Emergency onboard repair system"or something thats works like the PM Aura..."Nano Bots" (but magicy :P) that get better with each tier.




10. Mechanics can sneak/crit constructs, ignoring part or all of fortification.



Opportunist helps there.

The PrE seems to carry a construct theme but those abilities are pretty much useless so I thought this made sense, personally I prefer the construct bane i suggested above but this an alternative




11. Reduce the search and disarm time on traps at each tier of Mechanic. Make search/disarm instant for Tier III. (also make it slightly faster with every level of vanilla rogue but mech has huge difference)



If nothing else, this should be implemented.

Yeah I love my 18/2 wiz/rog but he really shouldn't be as good as traps as even someone with a 3 splash of rogue...increasing DCs is not the answer as it will alienate the splashes but having a pure rogue doing it in half the time or a Pure Rogue w/ Mech 3 doing it pretty much instantly would be a huge boon since most tougher players (barbs,etc.) tend to run through traps claiming disarming takes to long (the insta-kill, status effect,etc. traps you suggested above would go so well with this) and thats not just with bad Pugs it's an accepted means of dealing with traps.




12. Be able to save against traps on a 1 (IOW no critical fail)



Hmm. Could work. Might be overpowered.

Just to clarify its not auto-save on a 1 you still need to beat the DC it just won't cause you to auto-fail.



14. Give Mechs a Construct pet that starts off Small at Tier 1, than medium at tier 2 and Large at tier 3. The bigger it is the more threat it creates and the more damage it does (I'll leave the exact numbers to experts/devs) when you take the enhancement you should be able to choose what type (Biped, Quadruped,etc.) each with its own strengths and weaknesses. Give it a control system similar to Hirelings (add its hp just at the top left of the bar) except it doesn't take a party slot. Maybe make is so you can use the repair skill to heal it a bit (repair kit unneeded at tier 2) repair spell would work as well




Already implemented. Nobody uses Iron/Steel/Adamantine Defenders, though, as they're kind of underwhelming. If they beefed it up and made it somewhat impressive, maybe people would waste their Action Points on it. But if it's just going to be useful in the low levels, constantly spew grease, and have the same, poor AI as hirelings, I don't really blame people for ignoring it. I'd suggest keeping some Monster Summoning scrolls in your inventory, if you want a pet/summon, but the AI in this game is abysmal. They're often not worth even using, except to take some of the heat off you.

Yeah thasts basically what I was thinking like the defenders but they don't suck and they work more like a monk stance or a PM Form in their Permanent unless you dimiss them.

This page is similar to what I'm thinking of http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Constructs (ANy of the modifications to the construct could be chosen as enhancements)

These could also be Mech specific enhancements

Aura's (can Choose one)

Aura of Striking: Any friendly constructs within the aura gain a +X bonus on attack rolls for every tier of the mechanic.

Aura of Smiting: Any friendly constructs within the aura gain a +X bonus on damage rolls for every tier of the mechanic.

Aura of Defense: Any friendly constructs within the aura gain a +X to their AC for every tier of the mechanic.

Nano Storm (I made this one up): Any friendly constructs within the aura recover +X HP per tick with each tier of mech increasing the healing (this is a repair effect).


Also some possible stuff to add to tier 2/3

Construct Expertise (Ex): The Mech may select a second aura

Only the Essentials (Ex): Anything the mechanic carrys weighs only 3/4 its listed weight.




15. Mech 3 Grants Great Xbow prof and using their mechanical genius they can use trap parts to make them into repeaters (Alternatively any GX-Bows they use work as repeaters)



Crazy overpowered. Granted, it only happens near the endgame, but it's still ridiculous, especially when you combine it with the 8 shot clip.


Yeah definitely would NOT combine with the increased bolt clip....maybe even have it incur a movement speed, to-hit penalty & maybe even some penalties to skills like. jump.tumble,swim,etc. when in use.

Anyways here's the build I mentioned.

If your crazy enough and have the twitch skill to pull it off you can make a Kensai2/AA/Mech1 (Power Surge+Manyshot = Win) IntimiHate Tanks will hate this guy.


Elven 12Fighter/7Rogue/1Wizard (Kensai2/AA/Mech1)


Stats (assuming 32pt w/ Basic, Easy to obtain boosts):

Str 14+6(Item) +1(Tome) +3(Fighter) = 24
Dex 18+6(Item) +2(Tome) +2(Elf) +2(Rogue) = 30
Con 12+6(Item) +2(Tome) = 20
Int 16+6(Item) +2/3(Tome) +5(Lvls) = 27/28

Level Order:

Rogue 1-7, Wizard 8, Fighter 9-20

Required Tomes: +2 Int Tome (Level 7) & +1 Dex Tome (Before Lvl 14)

Feats

With the fighter feats the regular feats and the wiz feat you end up with 15 feats.

1 PBS
3 WF: Ranged
6 Precise Shot
8 Mental Toughness
9 Rapid Shot, Manyshot
10 Rapid Reload
12 WS:Ranged, Bow Strength
14 IPS
15 IC:Ranged
16 GWF: Ranged
18 Quick Draw, Toughness
20 GWS: Ranged

Note: Quickdraw. Rapid Reload & Toughness can be swapped around based on you personal preference.

Skills:

Fighter/Wizard Levels: UMD,Disable Device, Search (Any leftover points from tomes/leveling put in Spot than Balance)
Rogue Lvls: UMD, OL, Disable Device, Search, Spot, Balance & w/e


You could also go Half-Elf If you'd like but dillys that this build has access to aren't worth much...ranger is redundant (mini bow str), Fighter is again redundant (martial prof), Rogue would be nice but it doesn't stack with other SA, the only two that give even minor bonuses are Barb (HP/DR) or Wizard (Cast wands/scrolls up to a level 10 wiz) but you won't have the AP to take advantage.

Warganom
07-11-2011, 03:55 PM
I am pretty sure we have had this discussion before, anyway I'm glad you at least removed the 8 clip dual Great Repeater Crossbow wielding cyborg mechanic of doom out of it this time... 'Cause that **** was ridiculus.


We need a reliable way to supply ourselves with ammo...possibly using trap parts...make unique bolts like web bolts (Should probably be BtC) or make it so they aren't consumed when used (don't stack only need 1) but have durability like a ranged weapon.

Crafting bolts would probobly not hurt, especially if you could make GS bolts :) Just kidding, though being able to make Holy bolts wouldn't hurt.


Trap Parts need to be more Readily available (In-Game) & Trapmaking in general needs an overhaul.

I doubt there's anyone that doesn't think trapmaking needs an overhaul....


We need to keep the construct theme but actually make it useful (ie. Make it so all our weapons are construct/living construct bane...each tier gets better)


Hmm. That's an idea. Sort of like Knight of the Chalice. That could work, but I'm slightly worried that the combination of Construct Bane, Wrack Construct, Opportunist, and Sneak Attack could make Rogues a bit overpowered. Undead would be their only real weakness. In the end, if it turns out to not be unbalanced, I'd be for it, though.

Mechanics would still be subpar DPS where it counts... There are very few constructs in high level content, and up there construct bosses are almost non-existant. Sure we'd be good at killing shroud portals, but that's about it. I can't really see how this would be an issue.

Also, Wrack Construct and Smite Construct don't work with repeaters at the moment, you have to use a meele weapon to use these skills. This seriously needs to be changed.


6. Fix enhancements, equipment,etc. to actually work with ranged especially aggro reducers (frankly ranged should naturally cause less hate generation)

I'd get pretty ****ed if I got an arrow in the shoulder, especially since it was shot by some stringpulling ******* standing 100 meters away... Just saying.


7. Increase clip size for repeaters to 5~8ish (maybe Tier 1 = 4 Bolts, Tier 2 = 6 Bolts, Tier 3 = 7 or 8 Bolts)

Still no.


8. Possibly gain some Construct bonuses (or for WF Mechs make it additive so instead of a base +25% make it +50% and instead of being immune to poison make him actually regen hp from it or something)



That's interesting. A WF Mechanic who can heal himself could become nearly as popular as WF arcanes. Mechanics could get a bonus to all their Repair spells (including wands and scrolls), or maybe they'd have a bonus to incoming Repair spells, or they could have a series of enhancements that repair constructs, instead of that one low-level one.



Yeah have it work similar to the halfling dragonmark line...so as a mechanic you could have an "Emergency onboard repair system"or something thats works like the PM Aura..."Nano Bots" (but magicy :P) that get better with each tier.

Having a bonus to all repair spells would be really nice, especially if you also make the current Mech 1 ability more viable end game...

About the Mechanic Nano Bot aura... Not a big fan, but at least I wouldn't complain about it if it got added.


9. A Base Speed increase to reload and/or firing speed with each tier (stacks with everything)

Just remember that repeaters are not supposed to have as high damage as assasins.


10. Mechanics can sneak/crit constructs, ignoring part or all of fortification.

Poor constructs... Mohahahahahhaa!


13. DR against ranged weapons (bow,xbow,thrown daggers,etc.)

I still don't get this one...


15. Mech 3 Grants Great Xbow prof and using their mechanical genius they can use trap parts to make them into repeaters (Alternatively any GX-Bows they use work as repeaters)

Hehehe... Absolutly not.


Also here's a class I discovered when mucking around on the net and the Mech prestige could take some cool stuff from it (or if they redo the trapmaking system)

Gadgeteer (http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Gadgeteer)

Yeah, I'd especially appriciate the extra feats <3

Failedlegend
07-11-2011, 04:20 PM
@Warganom: Yeah we have done this before around either update 8 or 9 but with the advent of the U11 Ranged Pass I figured it was a good time to bring it up again.

OK i have to admit a few things...first i suck at suggestions i have little concept of whats OP and whats UP but I figure if I get the suggestions out there that the people who actually know what their talking about with reign them in...mind you on the other hand I find alot of people over estimate things and I don't want to see any pointless additions to the Mech line 1 useful thing > 500 pointless things.

Oh and yes #15 IS mostly a joke (although it would be highlarious to call melees gimp for once) although i do think they should get GXBow Prof at tier 3...#7&9 are my if you wont at least give us cool stuff at least give us some DPS...I would personally rather not have DPS boosts in the Mech PrE (It's partly a lesson I learned the first mech thing I posted) but I'm somewhat of a minority for that.

Aesop
07-11-2011, 05:20 PM
I could see Mechanic granting Repeating X-Bows 1 extra shot per clip as part of the Tier Three bonus. (total of 4)


Many Trap Parts should be purchasable at a shop or at least through Favor.


Grenades should be clickable like potions but thrown similar to a ray Spell in that it doesn't have an attack roll but may have a save instead. Give them a 15 sec cool down and it wouldn't be overpowered by any stretch of the imagination. This would be instead of equipped as a weapon. This way they can be used without interrupting the rogues flow of combat.

Mechanics should also have a static reduction to Construct Fortification that stacks with the other forms of reduction. Maybe tier 1 lets them ignore 25% fortification and it increases by 25% each additional tier. Total of 75% reduction and then they can use the other reductions to drop the Constructs down to 0%.

Each tier could also give a benefit to the Defenders should they chose to take them.

+1 attack and damage and +5 hp per hit die per tier. (total +3 attack and damage and +15hp/HD) that may be too low or part of it may be while the other to high.

another possible effect for either tier 2 or 3.

Reprogram: take control of a construct as Dominate Monster(except that it works on Constructs which are normally immune). DC 10+rogue level + Int Mod.

Aesop

Failedlegend
07-11-2011, 05:25 PM
I could see Mechanic granting Repeating X-Bows 1 extra shot per clip as part of the Tier Three bonus. (total of 4)


Many Trap Parts should be purchasable at a shop or at least through Favor.


Grenades should be clickable like potions but thrown similar to a ray Spell in that it doesn't have an attack roll but may have a save instead. Give them a 15 sec cool down and it wouldn't be overpowered by any stretch of the imagination. This would be instead of equipped as a weapon. This way they can be used without interrupting the rogues flow of combat.

Mechanics should also have a static reduction to Construct Fortification that stacks with the other forms of reduction. Maybe tier 1 lets them ignore 25% fortification and it increases by 25% each additional tier. Total of 75% reduction and then they can use the other reductions to drop the Constructs down to 0%.

Each tier could also give a benefit to the Defenders should they chose to take them.

+1 attack and damage and +5 hp per hit die per tier. (total +3 attack and damage and +15hp/HD) that may be too low or part of it may be while the other to high.

another possible effect for either tier 2 or 3.

Reprogram: take control of a construct as Dominate Monster(except that it works on Constructs which are normally immune). DC 10+rogue level + Int Mod.

Aesop

I'll add that change the defenders grease ability too an acid pool so it deals acid damage instead of being slippery..no annoyance for allies and is somewhat useful regardless of level. Beyond that good stuff Aesop.