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Balkas
07-09-2011, 01:14 PM
Howdy, I am looking for what you guys think is the best FvS for 6-man Epic Quests. My 4 mains are all melee, 3 of which are AC tanks, with the other being a Pure KotC Paladin. I don't really feel like any of mains are spectacularly built to run 6-man Epic Quests, so I figure I'd diversify and build up an FvS specifically for that purpose (with the added side benefit of being a healer for guild raids if necessary).

Should I just build a Wisdom based FvS with Heighten and extra Spell Pen, or are FvSs relegated to mostly healing in Epic Quests (while being a founder of this wonderful game, I've never extensively played a caster :-)).

Thanks for all and any help you can provide.

morticianjohn
07-09-2011, 01:37 PM
A Wis FvS will do ok in epics but in my experience getting your dc up is a grind. Still dp doesn't have a save and bb/destruction still do damage on a save. So having the best dc isn't as important as playing a wiz.

Kevorkian
07-09-2011, 02:35 PM
depends on whether you are doing epics in guild (meaning you KNOW each party member can handle their business) or PUGing epic (where the unknown factor increases).

If you're running in groups where all members are going to know and complete their role, then basically any FvS will do, just keep everyone up and do your thing when heals are on cool-down.

In the PUG where you can't necessarily rely that all will do what is needed, I would go one of 2 ways. WF LoB meleesoul or full blown evoker. Lord of Blades build can do any healing necessary and provide melee dps if needed. Evoker probably heals even more effectively and implodes, divine punishes, holy smites, bb, etc.

Starting from scratch, Lord of Blades build is easier early leveling, but once you get to 12 and BB evoker can basically solo everything to 20.

mute_mayhem
07-09-2011, 02:38 PM
Honestly, it's dang near impossible to get your dc's high enough to be effective in epic quests. My Human FvS has 40 Wisdom, and a destruction dc of 35 (with heighten)...This almost never lands in epics, unless I use energy drain first.
I'm coming to the realization that dc based casting for a FvS or Cleric is just not worth building for. As a previous poster said, dp doesn't have a save, and bb is still effective even if enemies make their save for half. In most epics, I'm just a healbot, unless I feel like using potions to keep the energy drains and destructions going whilst healing.

azrael4h
07-09-2011, 03:07 PM
Honestly, it's dang near impossible to get your dc's high enough to be effective in epic quests. My Human FvS has 40 Wisdom, and a destruction dc of 35 (with heighten)...This almost never lands in epics, unless I use energy drain first.
I'm coming to the realization that dc based casting for a FvS or Cleric is just not worth building for. As a previous poster said, dp doesn't have a save, and bb is still effective even if enemies make their save for half. In most epics, I'm just a healbot, unless I feel like using potions to keep the energy drains and destructions going whilst healing.

Divines just need more offensive spells as options. We have too few.

Beethoven
07-09-2011, 05:19 PM
It really depends what you looking for. Personally, I don't think there is something like the /best/ FvS build for epics, but different builds come with different perks, weaknesses and will perform better than others in one situation and worse in another.

I'd be to compose something of a general guideline about what does better in what situation (assuming raid heal capability in either case as secondary focus):

* Group play: melee specced FvS
* Solo play / scroll farming: Evocation build

Like others mentioned, it can be rather challenging to get your DC in the low to mid 40s on a divine. However, a melee specced FvS still can provide a significant amount of dps in addition to healing and dots (Divine Punishment). The largest weakness I found is the lack of AoE to deal with large groups of mobs. Now, in a group this is not an issue since there are other bodies who (hopefully) do something too. It makes it somewhat harder to use such build for, say, scroll farming.

Evocation builds have the advantage that the school they specialize in frequently targets the reflex save (say, Blade Barrier). You "only" really need a 36 to 38. Heck, my Warforged has only a 34 and I still see epic mobs fail (not all the time, of course). Divine Punishment takes care of immobile or especially tough foes, the rest is cut down easily by a BB. The weakness here is most groups just don't appreciate the FvS Leap of Faith ahead to grab aggro, lay down a BB and run in circles while everyone else watches.

The third alternative is to mix both concepts. Mine started with a 15 Str only, max Wis (all level ups in Wis). He still hits a 30 Strength and between that and gear he can melee quite a bit while still maintaining a BB DC high enough for it to do what I want to.

Dark-Star
07-09-2011, 09:15 PM
Three sorc lives, three wizard lives, completionist, human, maxed wisdom, maxed evocation specced favored soul. Arguably two levels of monk for max DC and evasion.

Morosy
07-09-2011, 09:22 PM
Three sorc lives, three wizard lives, completionist, human, maxed wisdom, maxed evocation specced favored soul. Arguably two levels of monk for max DC and evasion.

Well, suppose he did ask for the best...

But yea, that's what it takes for divines to get acceptable dc's I guess lol.

LordPiglet
07-09-2011, 09:33 PM
Howdy, I am looking for what you guys think is the best FvS for 6-man Epic Quests. My 4 mains are all melee, 3 of which are AC tanks, with the other being a Pure KotC Paladin. I don't really feel like any of mains are spectacularly built to run 6-man Epic Quests, so I figure I'd diversify and build up an FvS specifically for that purpose (with the added side benefit of being a healer for guild raids if necessary).

Should I just build a Wisdom based FvS with Heighten and extra Spell Pen, or are FvSs relegated to mostly healing in Epic Quests (while being a founder of this wonderful game, I've never extensively played a caster :-)).

Thanks for all and any help you can provide.

I am also a melee guy, so I went lord of blades. I only healed a few epic raids before I tr'd and honestly except a bad (well bad would have been a dps improvement) evon6 had no issues. Except epic dq, and parts of tod, I always melee and just quickened mass heal on myself. This my not work, but from my experience most 6 man epic groups stay in a pack pretty well.

Sarisa
07-09-2011, 10:11 PM
Granted I'm a Cleric (caster spec with decent STR) and not a FvS, but I end up doing a lot of melee in the epic quests (not raids) I run.

I generally use Implosion whenever I'm able, Energy Drain high HP orange named trash (especially Ele's and certain named giants), and occasionally land a Destruction on a caster or archer. I can sometimes land a Greater Command on giants, trolls, or ogres (Claw/VoN1). The rest of the time, I'm in the melee pack, contributing what melee damage I can.

On most bosses, I can also join in the melee scrum, and will keep Destruction and Improved Destruction on it to make it easier for the rest of the group to hit. Only some heavy caster bosses (like Garos) are ones I stay back from, but a FvS with their better reflex saves will probably be able to stay in the group.

GenPurpose
07-10-2011, 02:43 PM
Personally I would come in on the side of DC wisdom FvS. I've had a good number of both melee and caster type FvS over the years, though only 2 left now, and I love both kinds.
But, I cant pretend that my Lord of the Blades can anywhere near match the dps output my evoker in epics.
With a 40 wisdom, evocation feats, greater evocation item, heighten maximize and empower his blade barriers can shred epic mobs. I do a lot of epic adq1 farming these days and it's very easy with that guy. Just grab 6-10 epic chumps, drag them back to the lectern at the start to avoid the disjunction orbs, bb and run in a circle. Boom they're dead. Same guy in epic wiz king can just implode 3-5 mummies or mephits at a time and toss Undead to Death on the skellies to clear the rest.

Having a large sp pool, more than my lotb, and all the right enhancements makes him a superb healbot as well. More than sufficient to solo heal the easier raids like shroud with no pots.

Someone above had said that landing destruction is epics is pretty tough, which it can be, so just keep to using it on appropriate mobs. i.e. casters that aren't drow and other low fort save types. The fire elementals and casters in epic devil assault shouldnt give you any problems with a 40 wisdom and a greater necromancy focus item.
Good example is the warforged in epic von5. They've got fairly good fort saves, not easy to implode or destruct and you can't level drain them. They do however have fairly poor will saves. So, greater command has no trouble dropping them to the floor so everyone can beat on them. Or if you're soloing take a few seconds to drop their saves by 4 with Bestow Curse, also a will save spell, and then destruct and implode.
(Bestow curse btw is often overlooked but is actually super helpful and doesn't have a lot of competition in the lvl 3 spell selection)

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying that the the lotb isnt worth it, in non-epic content i adore them. Give him a torc and he can go forever. But a blade barrier that ticks for ~350 (non-crit, but assuming some are still making saves) on 10 guys at once, roughly once per second if you're doing it right, is a massive amount more dps than the lotb (or frankly other pure dps builds) can muster no matter what his gear. If you bothered to gather a good number of those mobs that one blade barrier can honest-to-goodness easily top 1000 points of dps for mobs that are dumb enough to chase you, if not quite a lot more under the right circumstances. Add to that implosions, destructions, undead to deaths and curses that can be good enough to wipe out epic level mobs when used wisely and you've got yourself a pretty helpful member of the party. My lotb is a great toon that I enjoy very much, but he and his SOS just can't ever compete with that.

*cheezy accent*
I don't always do epics, but when I do I prefer evokers.

Razcar
07-11-2011, 05:52 AM
Divines just need more offensive spells as options. We have too few.
Several years ago we were supposed to get Earthquake. It was held back due to some problem, and was supposed to be released later in a patch.

Hey Turbine, we are still waiting.

Truga
07-11-2011, 06:28 AM
Divines just need more offensive spells as options. We have too few.

Prepare for a ****storm! Because, there's no divines, there's healers! And healers should heal! Or something along those lines. :D

BrightAsh
07-11-2011, 07:03 AM
[QUOTE=mute_mayhem;3913027]My Human FvS has 40 Wisdom, and a destruction dc of 35 (with heighten)...This almost never lands in epics, unless I use energy drain first.[QUOTE]

My cleric has about the same DC's, and i tend to use destruction only on casters, it works quite often (not all the time). With an energy drain it is 100% (bit less, considering the 20) succesfull. I find that quite usefull, considering epic casters are generally the most dangerous.

thewalex
07-12-2011, 11:11 AM
* Group play: melee specced FvS
* Solo play / scroll farming: Evocation build



I agree here. My Evoker FvS is pretty nasty at scroll farming. I mainly hit Tharashk Arena and The Last Stand (save Carnival/EDQ scroll farming for my pale master) since the encountered enemies there more melees than casters and are not as commonly farmed. However in a group, there are more targets so the BB/circle of death kiting method won't apply. I usually find myself mostly healing while tossing out implosion and divine punishment. A melee FvS would have better group dynamics for epic, while the "kite through damaging spells and avoid getting hit" works better for soloing.

Arcaenium
04-20-2012, 01:08 AM
Well, suppose he did ask for the best...

But yea, that's what it takes for divines to get acceptable dc's I guess lol.

well...triple completionist in general, with the very last being the favored soul life. by that time i'd assume you'd already ahve all the gear.....

Matuse
04-20-2012, 01:49 AM
Honestly, it's dang near impossible to get your dc's high enough to be effective in epic quests. My Human FvS has 40 Wisdom, and a destruction dc of 35 (with heighten)...This almost never lands in epics, unless I use energy drain first.

Pfft, with a 32 Wis and no heighten I get destruction to land reasonably often, except against Drow or other targets with a lot of SR.

WruntJunior
04-20-2012, 02:07 AM
I had huge success grinding epics as a human evoker...with a 44 wisdom and 38 necro/enchant/evo dc (with an effective +2 from AoV aura), shield mastery, and torc, epics were easy...prior to getting all my gear, it was still rather easy, though energy drain saw regular usage on melee enemies. Currently doing past-lives on the FvS as it's pretty much geared-out, but as a first-life, it performed rather well. For me, my melee FvS didn't perform that well in epics until I got my eSoS (though in some epics, you could see some good success from Terror).

erikbozelie
04-20-2012, 02:11 AM
10 : base
16 : 42 wisdom
09 : spell
02 : greater spell focus item
01 : spell focus feat
01 : greater spell focus feat
01 : wizard past life

02 : fvs aura, gives -2 to all saves

42

optional
03 : past live sorcerer on implosion

45 total.

MRMechMan
04-20-2012, 02:42 AM
FVS aren't necessarily relegated to only healing party members.

Hell...with DP, shield mastery, decent amp+capstone, 42+ implosion, torc/concops etc there doesn't even need to BE a party most of the time.

WruntJunior
04-20-2012, 02:56 AM
10 : base
16 : 42 wisdom
09 : spell
02 : greater spell focus item
01 : spell focus feat
01 : greater spell focus feat
01 : wizard past life

02 : fvs aura, gives -2 to all saves

42

optional
03 : past live sorcerer on implosion

45 total.

44 wisdom is standing wisdom with ship buff/yugo pot for a pure fvs with all wisdom gear (technically 45, but the odd goes away in enhancements for me)...46 for a monk-splash. This is obtainable first-life...so definitely obtainable on TRs...so add 1 to your DC, for 46 maintained dc (47 if 18fvs/2monk).

mute_mayhem
04-20-2012, 08:16 AM
Pfft, with a 32 Wis and no heighten I get destruction to land reasonably often, except against Drow or other targets with a lot of SR.

gratz on finding something wrong with a post that's over 9 months old...lol

My current FvS has a 44 Necro DC self buffed, and yes, it lands destruction/slay living all the time without energy drain or other expensive debuffers.

I find it to be a perfect character for solo farming epics.

LordPiglet
04-20-2012, 03:16 PM
I'll cap my evoker build soon.

However, my lob does fine solo scroll farming some stuff (adq1, von 4). Symbol of Death + BB kiting is win (no symbol in von 4).

ZennyoTheWise
04-20-2012, 05:23 PM
10 : base
16 : 42 wisdom
09 : spell
02 : greater spell focus item
01 : spell focus feat
01 : greater spell focus feat
01 : wizard past life

02 : fvs aura, gives -2 to all saves

42

optional
03 : past live sorcerer on implosion

45 total.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life:_Wizard

Wizard past life is spell pen not DC.

WruntJunior
04-20-2012, 05:37 PM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life:_Wizard

Wizard past life is spell pen not DC.

He's talking about the selected Wizard Past-Life feat (http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life:_Arcane_Initiate).

DanteEnFuego
04-20-2012, 06:08 PM
Prepare for a ****storm! Because, there's no divines, there's healers! And healers should heal! Or something along those lines. :D

Nah... I learned last week that I am a support toon to an "uber" rogue... I like my evoker and LoB for epics...so any!