PDA

View Full Version : Monk More Monk Newbness



BOgre
07-09-2011, 11:57 AM
tl;dr Grasshoppa needs Sensei. Teach a newb how to BE a monk, disregarding build advice, focusing on gameplay, hotbar, hotkey, style.

Well, with monk on sale right now, and some unused TP from that point pack sale, I figured why not. Yeah, I know handwraps are an issue, and there's something I heard about Ki gen, but meh, I still think a monk is going to be fun so I bought it. Wheeeee!

My main is unbongwah's Tempest Trapmonkey ranger. I love playing him. He's simple, he does great (not stellar) damage, Multishot/IPS is wicked cool, and self buffs and self heals are nice. My hotbars were simple and intuitive to set up, and his combat style was easy to learn.

So I go from that to arguably the toughest class to learn, and boy, I'm struggling. As I always do for new things, I've read exhaustively. The compendium, the wiki, and of course this class forum. Lots of info on builds and hotkey setups. Too much probably, 'cuz i'm still pretty lost in the woods.

What I'm hoping for I think, is for a Monk 'expert' or three to pipe in and help me get a handle on how to learn this great class. That is, start me out with a couple hotbars to get me through Korthos, some advice on what gameplay essentials to focus on practicing, and maybe move on to some intermediate/advanced concepts later on.

Yup, I'm asking for a monk expert (or three :)) to write a definitive monk gameplay guide for newbs. For free. ;)

Don't bother with build advice and such for now, since I'm just going to play the path'ed Ninja Spy. I'm sure it's gimp and whatnot, don't care much right now. Once I master (or at least become comfortable/proficient) with the gameplay concepts I'll reroll and pick a better build. For now I'm just trying to learn how to PLAY the guy, ya know?

tl;dr Grasshoppa needs Sensei. Teach a newb how to BE a monk, disregarding build advice, focusing on gameplay, hotbar, hotkey, style.

Ugumagre
07-09-2011, 12:06 PM
I will be a good reader too. As I was a VIP, I played for some hours a Monk...but was a bit lost and I left it for my cleric.

dozkal-mo
07-09-2011, 12:12 PM
You're going to hate this, but the best way to learn monk and see how it fits to your style of gameplay is to quite simply play it. :)

I'm a Dex/Wis dark monk and I keep, in this order, on my hotbar: Fists of Darkness, Stunning Fist, ToD, Storm Strike IV, III, II, Finishing Moves, Abundant Step, Shadow Fade, and Heal Pots.

You obviously won't have that at low levels. So, if you have stunning fist and can generate Ki well (Sun stance, basically) then keep it towards the front and then have all your low level ki strikes after it....then the Finishing Moves bar....then various pots. Maybe a couple handwraps if you need to switch a lot for some reason.

You say it is "arguably" the most difficult class to learn, and I would agree with that if you were only reading about it. It gets way easier really quickly the more you simply play it.

Do you have any specific questions with which I can help?

BOgre
07-09-2011, 12:43 PM
Thanks and Roger-Wilco! I won't be spending as much time on the monk as on my main, but I'll be sure to devote a good chunk.

K, specific questions. My hotbar 1 on ranger has trip, sunder, attack boost, multishot, cure mod, my animal charms, ac boost, rngr speed. Stuff I use in combat all the time.

With monk, I'm sensing that I'll be changing stances situationally. So far it seems that sun stance for damage and mountain for defense? If that's so, then should I have the 2 stances and their strikes on bar1? And as for the finisher, do I need to hit the finisher button to activate the finish, or does it hit automatically when I complete the sequence? If I need to hit it to activate it, then do I need seperate finisher buttons for each stance?

Something I was considering (since I know no better) is to have 2 bars set up identically, with each having a copy of trip and sunder, stunning when i get it, and then like say, slots 5, 6, 7, 8 on each bar devoted to a stance and it's strikes. Then I could ctrl-1 to get to my sun stance bar, then ctrl-2 for my mtn stance bar, and still have the common clicks in the same place... or is that too much redundancy?

Lets see... what else... is there a scenario example you could outline that shows me how to enter combat? Like for example, I'm fresh health, coming up on trash skellies and zombies. I enter sunstance, hit hit strike, hit hit strike strike finisher.... took some damage and coming up on an orange name, so I switch to mountain... Something like that? I'm not asking for an easy button, but just a strategy to try out so I can get the feel of how my toon can shine.

Warlocker
07-09-2011, 01:21 PM
I really do feel that it comes to preference. When Playing my H-orc Strength monk, I don't leave Fire stance unless Im going into Water stance for when I really need a saves boost. I dont use Earth Stance very often myself, but on occasion I do switch. I mostly have it as Grandmaster for the Strikes for extra damage that come with each Strike. Earth stance is nice for lvling I suppose due to the extra DR/HP/unarmed Die step w/ Jidz-tetka, But you lose that extra DR you gained from whatever tier Earthstance your running at lvl 20 (Assuming your Pure) Due to the 10/EPic DR you gain. Something else to consider is the matter of a slower attack rate compared to Wind/Fire stance which can possible affect your DPS depending on what mobs your fighting, of course. As others have said however, you need to experiment with different play-styles and builds to find whats right for you.

Baahb3
07-09-2011, 02:11 PM
I don't consider myself an 'expert' but having played my monk through 4 lives I consider myself to be resonably competent.

General Advice:
--I hope you like busy characters! Monks IMO are the busiest of them all. As you gain proficiancy with your character and some Ki generation gear like Oremi's Necklace you will find yourself hitting a Ki strike for nearly every attack. Quick fingers and watching your cool downs will become important to bring the most out of your monk.

--Mobility is a great asset of your monk. Use your good base speed and abundant step ability to get yourself into and out of battle. Practice moving mobs around, abundent step away to chug a couple of potions then tumbling back in. There is no need to stand and take a beating when you can make mobs miss just by moving out of the way!

--Even if you don't focus on AC a monk can maintain a decent enough AC to matter up to and through Gianthold and the Vale. Keep up with your armor bracers/deflection items and keep a stack of bark skin pots on you. And don't forget about a shield clickie, you won't have much mitigation from grazing hits and Mountain stance's movement penalty is a pain so these little things can save you lots of damage.

Stances:
--If soloing there is really nothing better than Wind Stance. You take a hit to your con and you don't generate Ki as much as Fire Stance but the increased attack speed and double strike bonus more than makes up for those draw backs IMO.

--If you have a dedicated haster in the group then Fire stance is probably where you want stay if you have a hard time managing your Ki. You still loose the double strike benefit of Wind stance but you will have more freedom with your Ki strikes due to the increased generation in this stance.

--As others here have said Mountain stance gives you a bump to HP, some DR and increased damage with the Sentinal bracers. It also has some different crit profiles IIRC. I don't use this stance much myself and have not tested too much with the new crit profiles.

--Water stance is one that I use only when I know I need to make a series of saves. When charging a group of beholders or running a path full of traps I will usually switch to this stance for those incidents. I have never used this as a main stance for my monks.

Strikes:
--Earth strikes are the best for general damage increase as they add a base amount of damage to your fist. This damage is included for criticals as well so it makes for a fine DPS boost. I keep both Earth IV and III in my rotation at all times.

--Elemental strikes are useful depending on targets. Mix in a fire strike when fighting trolls, lighting for devils, water for fire creatures. Use as needed.

--Void stirkes are very fun and useful and I try to get and use them early and often. They deal force damage and provide some special effect that usually breaks norms for its effect. Such as Void III's stun effect will work on Undead and elementals, Void IV's 'erase' effect works on Epic mobs and those with death ward effects.

As others here have mentioned the Monk is an aquired taste and one that needs to be praticed with to be good at. You can read and be given all the advice in the world on them but this is truly one clase where pratice makes perfect.

BOgre
07-09-2011, 02:35 PM
K. So I did interior Korthos normal and hard, and Sahuagin norm/hard. Figured out I don't need to be in a particular stance in order to use that element's associated strike. Misconception #1 banished, so that changes my hotbar setup. whew! much simpler now.

Thanks for the advice so far, I'm liking it. One thing that's bugging me is Finishers. When I first log in my finishers are greyed, but as soon as I've sequenced for the first time, the finishers stay lit, it seems like. So I don't have a visual queue to tell me when it's ACTUALLY ready. I have to either keep track in my head or only do strike strike strike finish, or just throw in a finisher attempt every so often and hope it goes off sometimes. What am I missing here?

Again, thanks for the great tips so far. I guess I can trade in my White belt for a Yellow now? hehe.

Blackheartox
07-09-2011, 02:50 PM
About finishers, just put the finisher skill in the bar (the red one, dont expand the list).
When you do the atacks in the right order the finisher icon changes to the finisher you have prepared. Something like you do fire strike fires strike fire strike & the icon changes to something similiar to the fire stance icon & you can press it to do the finisher.
No need to put every finisher in the hotbar.

Btw, youl have a hard time to land your finisher in low level stuff...
Reasons:
-You kill everything before you prepare the finisher
-You dont have enough ki
-You press on a door,valve,coll, etc. & your finisher is auto canceled

About hotbars, i use 6 hotbars on my shintao monk
1 for main strikes & healing pots (1 2 3)
2 for second strikes (f1 f2 f3 etc)
3 for trip sunder & the leftover strike that are needed in a few situations(alt 1 alt2 alt3)
4 for robes (num pad)
5 for handwraps (arrow keys +page down etc)
6 for stance & clickies & some pots (ctrl1 ctrl2 etc)
& il add a 7th when i farm the other clickies

Dark monks require less hotbars cause they arent so strike dependent like the light, but i would suggest at least 3-4 hotbars
I hope the advice will help you a bit, enjoy the monks, most fun melle class imho :)

Baahb3
07-09-2011, 02:55 PM
There are a few things that will let you know your finishing move is ready.

You should have a red background icon in your finishing moves feat list that you can drag to your hot bar.

When you have successfully set up a finishing move it will change from a red background to whatever move you have set up. So if you hit Earth, Earth, Earth it will change to a mountain icon, like the Earth Stance Icon.

Also you will notice a kind of electrical charge appear around your character and if you have your sound up you will hear a kind of buzzing sound. This also indicates your finishing move is ready.

Other things about finishing moves:
--things like opening doors and drinking potions will disrupt the 3 strike chain needed to get a finishing move

--Spell effect potions will affect some finishing move effects. Example:
----Fire, Fire, Fire will give you a burning hands effect which is great at low levels for frying kobolds :). Head to Object Desire in House Phiarlin and grab some Superior Inferno I potions. These little 3 min/potion gems will increase that burning hands effect by 75%!
*Note: these do not increase the strike damage (1d6) just the special effects of finishing moves.*

dozkal-mo
07-09-2011, 03:12 PM
Thanks and Roger-Wilco! I won't be spending as much time on the monk as on my main, but I'll be sure to devote a good chunk.

K, specific questions. My hotbar 1 on ranger has trip, sunder, attack boost, multishot, cure mod, my animal charms, ac boost, rngr speed. Stuff I use in combat all the time.

With monk, I'm sensing that I'll be changing stances situationally. So far it seems that sun stance for damage and mountain for defense? If that's so, then should I have the 2 stances and their strikes on bar1? And as for the finisher, do I need to hit the finisher button to activate the finish, or does it hit automatically when I complete the sequence? If I need to hit it to activate it, then do I need seperate finisher buttons for each stance?

Something I was considering (since I know no better) is to have 2 bars set up identically, with each having a copy of trip and sunder, stunning when i get it, and then like say, slots 5, 6, 7, 8 on each bar devoted to a stance and it's strikes. Then I could ctrl-1 to get to my sun stance bar, then ctrl-2 for my mtn stance bar, and still have the common clicks in the same place... or is that too much redundancy?

Lets see... what else... is there a scenario example you could outline that shows me how to enter combat? Like for example, I'm fresh health, coming up on trash skellies and zombies. I enter sunstance, hit hit strike, hit hit strike strike finisher.... took some damage and coming up on an orange name, so I switch to mountain... Something like that? I'm not asking for an easy button, but just a strategy to try out so I can get the feel of how my toon can shine.


That hotbar setup may work for you. You'll have to see if you're comfortable with it. I never leave Wind Stance, so I'm afraid I can't help you much there.

As for finishers, let's say you use the Fire Ki strike. Use it three times in a row without opening a door or pulling a lever or switching wraps. Then the finisher button changes to the Fire finisher symbol. Your toon will glow a bit, too. At this point if you hit the finisher button you'll shoot out a version of flaming hands. It does not automatically go off. The finisher also doesn't last forever while it waits for you to use it AND it can be dismissed by opening a door, switching wraps, etc. Also, you don't need different finisher buttons. The single one will do; the hard part at first can be remembering the finishers and what they do so you use the right strikes to activate them.

And the breakdown of posters before this one should help with how and when to use various stances.

BOgre
07-09-2011, 06:08 PM
aha! Ok, I had expanded the list and hotbar'd each finisher separately. I'll change that right now. I did notice my crackling lightning self on occasion... ;) The tip about inferno I pots is cool. Can't wait to get off the island now :)

Tobril
07-09-2011, 06:20 PM
A few thingsā€¦

As you go further into the elemental paths make sure to
move the highest level stance to your hotbar.

You can also move the new strikes to a bar and still use
the old strikes. This can also help activate finishers faster,
like doing fire I, dark, fire II to enable the kharmic strike
finisher for an automatic crit.


My bars: (pre-U9 light monk setup, but this gives you an idea)



Street Fighter Bar Setup
I have two bars that I flip between.

Bar 1 - Stunnable Monsters
Stunning Fist
Earth IV
Earth III
Fists of Iron
Finisher
Fists of Light

Bar 2 - Unstunnable Monsters
Void IV
Void III
Void II
Earth IV
Earth III
Fists of Light

Another area has water for Align and earth/wind/fire for Shining Star.

A bar beneath the main bar contains Kukan-Do, Void IV, Void III, and Jade Tomb.



This is just one example of how to do it, monk bars tend to vary a lot
based on the individual.

BOgre
07-09-2011, 10:12 PM
Ok, I'm getting the hang of things now. Solo'd Misery's hard so I figure I must be doing something right ;). Thanks for the help all. Ready to re-roll with a good build. Can someone point me to whatever the standard strength based dps build is? Is there a post-U9 recommended build? And what are the post-U9 issues I should be aware of?

dozkal-mo
07-10-2011, 12:36 AM
Ok, I'm getting the hang of things now. Solo'd Misery's hard so I figure I must be doing something right ;). Thanks for the help all. Ready to re-roll with a good build. Can someone point me to whatever the standard strength based dps build is? Is there a post-U9 recommended build? And what are the post-U9 issues I should be aware of?

Well, if you have Warforged, there's the Metaru found here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264340. It's built entirely around Str and Sun stance, completely sacrificing Wis. It works very well for many, and you can easily change it some to suit your taste. There are other builds, but I keep forgetting to bookmark the links.

As for post-U9 issues, the only ones of which I'm aware are those that apply to handwraps. Also, if you go dark, Dance of the Water Strider (lets you run on liquid surfaces) does NOT work everywhere. It's supposed to, even on lava, but it doesn't. It does work in the harbor, so when you get it you can test it out there. I don't know of any issues for light monks because I don't have one. Hopefully others will chime in with some info if they have it.

As a little tip, if you use Wind Stance, that increases your double strike chances, and I suggest you use your karmic strikes towards the end of the attack cycle (when your to-hit is highest) so that they are more likely to land, and I've noticed they're more likely to proc multiple times. I've had Touch of Death land 5 times doing this. Not often, but it happens.

BOgre
07-11-2011, 02:24 PM
Well, I've found Rockan and a few others. Rockan is tough to read. Good advice there, but I'm not sure about the build.

I think what I want is a Shintao for self healing, but I'm not finding a good basic shintao build. Any pointers?

Tobril
07-11-2011, 02:34 PM
Well, I've found Rockan and a few others. Rockan is tough to read. Good advice there, but I'm not sure about the build.

I think what I want is a Shintao for self healing, but I'm not finding a good basic shintao build. Any pointers?


Here are a few recent Shintao designs:

Martens - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=305216

Teenie - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=279133


Both builds have Void 4, which you may not be able to work into a first life without +3 tomes.

If I to do mine again I would go half-elf, although half-orc is an OK choice as well.

Habreno
07-11-2011, 03:24 PM
Honestly, ~ level 8 or so you may rethink the self-healing requirement. Both paths give Wholeness of Body, which is 1/2 Monk Level + WIS modifier * healing amp and togglable every 180 seconds (ticks for 30 seconds)

I personally started as a Light monk, then swapped to dark for more DPS as a HOrc STR monk.

Braegan
07-11-2011, 08:53 PM
You're going to hate this, but the best way to learn monk and see how it fits to your style of gameplay is to quite simply play it. :)


Simply the best so far.

Monks are a class that require a degree of both player skill and the enjoyment of mashing buttons. A trained monkey can play a barb in ddo, while some excellent players cannot grasp the fundamentals of being a monk.

In a good players hands Monks excel where others fail. And that is regardless of dex/finess or str or light or dark. Monks period can excel if played right.

I actually enjoyed my journey playing a monk more then anything else in ddo as each stage was truly an eye opener and led me to being a better player.

Best of luck on your journey, If you have any other questions I see unanswered already I'll try to help in this thread. But so far the advice in this thread is sound. Especially that concerning Earth strikes for DPS. Get it, Use it, Love it. Attack as fast as the Wind with the force of a Mountain in each hand.

BOgre
07-11-2011, 11:40 PM
rep cooldown occurred. thanks to all for the tips so far ;) +1's

BOgre
07-12-2011, 03:55 AM
Ok, here's what I've come up with based on advice and reading.

The +3 tomes aren't neccessarily tomes, but probably a mix of tomes and gear.
Enhancements probably get shuffled as I progress, the list shown is end result.

Let me know what y'all figure.

Edit: v.2 per advice. Little bummed that I couldn't fit both Void IV AND Shintao III. Anyone know of a way? Dam AP progression prereqs!


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Fists of Menla
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(20 Monk)
Hit Points: 302
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 19
Will: 21

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 13 16 16
Dexterity 16 18 20
Constitution 15 18 18
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 16 21 24
Charisma 8 8 8

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 7 27 28
Bluff -1 -1 0
Concentration 8 27 41
Diplomacy -1 -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1 -1
Heal 3 7 7
Hide 4 5 9
Intimidate -1 -1 -1
Jump 7 25 27
Listen 3 7 9
Move Silently 4 5 7
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1 -1
Search -1 -1 -1
Spot 3 7 7
Swim 3 3 3
Tumble 5 7 7
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)


Level 15 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Fists of Iron
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Shintao Monk I
Enhancement: Shintao Monk II
Enhancement: Shintao Monk III
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Void Strike II
Enhancement: Void Strike III
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Master of the Sea
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III




p.s. this is my first attempt at a build of any kind, first time using the planner. Up till now been playing other ppl's builds, so be gentle ;)

Braegan
07-12-2011, 08:25 AM
Ok, here's what I've come up with based on advice and reading.

The +3 tomes aren't neccessarily tomes, but probably a mix of tomes and gear.
Enhancements probably get shuffled as I progress, the list shown is end result.

Let me know what y'all figure.


p.s. this is my first attempt at a build of any kind, first time using the planner. Up till now been playing other ppl's builds, so be gentle ;)

My thoughts:

Alignment:

If you plan on running Abbot alot. Go LN instead of LG so you can wear Litany as well as take a little less damage from some evil attacks/arrows. Being a light monk a set of plain Holy handwraps and you break the important DRs. Eventually you'll get a ToD ring and Holy Burst that leaving you free to utilize Greater Banes, etc.

Stats:

Your initial starts seem decent.

Skills:

A little scattered. Having alot of skills at 3 ranks or so won't help too much. Personally I tend to focus on Concentration, Balance and Jump. I put ranks into Jump until I get around 10 ranks. At level 7 use a +2 int tome to get another skill point. After you get around 10 ranks in Jump I put an equal investment in Hide and Move Silently. I never bothered too much with UMD but if you can work it in more power to you.

Feats:

Drop Dodge for Power Attack. 5 points of damage > 1 point of AC.

Diehard is kinda meh. Perhaps one of the other feats needed for Shintao would be stronger choice, maybe Luck of Heroes?

Enhancements:

Need some refinement here.

First, things you can lose:

Get rid of the Rise of the Pheonix line. It's really costly and you're better off getting Imp Recovery III for the Shintao pre-req and using those points elsewhere.


Things you should get:

Halfling Dex I & II. As a finesse monk you need to amp you Dex up to hit reliably.

Halfling Cunning and Guile. Extra SA damage is a good thing. This coupled with Unbalancing Strike = Win.



Otherwise off to a decent start. :)


Edit:

Regarding your stances. You can probably limit it down to two. (Recommend Earth and Wind, with maybe the 1 tier in Water to keep Unbalancing Strike). Also, as a Dex/Wis Monk I don't recommend being in Earth Stance as the penalty to Dex will hurt your to-hit. This will be more troublesome later in game and in Epics where monk to-hit can sometimes be a factor. I do advice keeping Earth for the strikes to up your dps but to use GM Wind stance as your primary to boost your to-hit.

SensaiRyu
07-12-2011, 10:48 AM
Looks like a good build. I didn't take the rise of phoenix line. Being a HElf I wanted to put the points into other things.

One question... is finesse worth it? Your str and dex are so close that I'd take a toughness or something else instead of finesse.

Stunning Blow for a second attempt at stunning maybe? I find it nice when I want to stun 1 or 2 in a mob before I jump to the casters. Of course your strength won't give it a great DC but when SF fails or you don't have ki you'll have a quick backup.

If you like phoenix, consider dropping the concentration/balance and maybe turtle III or IV. This will free up some enh for recovery. I only took concentration I or II and stopped. My standing ki is 60. I used concentration as a dump enh for filling when I needed to spend a point or two to open up something else.

As for dodge... if you keep it, you can switch to dark with your free feat respec if you want to. I considered selecting my feats in a way that would allow me to swap over at Fred. Didn't do it... but I thought it would be a good idea.

BOgre
07-12-2011, 11:52 AM
My thoughts:

Alignment:

If you plan on running Abbot alot. Go LN instead of LG so you can wear Litany as well as take a little less damage from some evil attacks/arrows. Being a light monk a set of plain Holy handwraps and you break the important DRs. Eventually you'll get a ToD ring and Holy Burst that leaving you free to utilize Greater Banes, etc.

Don't really like Abbot much. Chose LG for Delera's Holy handwraps but I may reconsider.

Stats:

Your initial starts seem decent.

Skills:

A little scattered. Having alot of skills at 3 ranks or so won't help too much. Personally I tend to focus on Concentration, Balance and Jump. I put ranks into Jump until I get around 10 ranks. At level 7 use a +2 int tome to get another skill point. After you get around 10 ranks in Jump I put an equal investment in Hide and Move Silently. I never bothered too much with UMD but if you can work it in more power to you.

I'll have to look back into the planner, but I'm pretty sure those 3's and 4's are automatic. I put all ranks into concentration for ki, balance, jump and the extra point in umd.

Feats:

Drop Dodge for Power Attack. 5 points of damage > 1 point of AC.

Yeah I hear you there. I waffled on this for a long time. Let's just say it's 1 vote PA at this point...

Diehard is kinda meh. Perhaps one of the other feats needed for Shintao would be stronger choice, maybe Luck of Heroes?

Again, it was a prereq choice, so just took what I thought was decent. I'll look into LoH again. Thanks.

Enhancements:

Need some refinement here.

First, things you can lose:

Get rid of the Rise of the Pheonix line. It's really costly and you're better off getting Imp Recovery III for the Shintao pre-req and using those points elsewhere.

Another prereq choice. Took it because I run with a guildie that hates hotbars and seems to be a blindness/curse/etc magnet... Think I'll stick with it for now.

Things you should get:

Halfling Dex I & II. As a finesse monk you need to amp you Dex up to hit reliably.

Halfling Cunning and Guile. Extra SA damage is a good thing. This coupled with Unbalancing Strike = Win.

Very good point. K, I'll be attempting to fix that for sure.

Otherwise off to a decent start. :)

Regarding your stances. You can probably limit it down to two. (Recommend Earth and Wind, with maybe the 1 tier in Water to keep Unbalancing Strike). Also, as a Dex/Wis Monk I don't recommend being in Earth Stance as the penalty to Dex will hurt your to-hit. This will be more troublesome later in game and in Epics where monk to-hit can sometimes be a factor. I do advice keeping Earth for the strikes to up your dps but to use GM Wind stance as your primary to boost your to-hit.

Stances are prereq for maxing the Void Line. Maybe not ideal but I'd like to give it a shot. The GM choice was random, so I can swap that for GMWind no prob.


Looks like a good build. I didn't take the rise of phoenix line. Being a HElf I wanted to put the points into other things.

One question... is finesse worth it? Your str and dex are so close that I'd take a toughness or something else instead of finesse.

At the start Dex is in front enough to make it worth while. Needed stat increases for prereq's for this and that, which brought str up. But if I go with monk dex I/II it'll be out in front again. I guess I'll have to see how it pans out after I update it. FYI I initially had 3 toughnesses... but they got voted out during planning... let's see what happens in v.2 of the build.

Stunning Blow for a second attempt at stunning maybe? I find it nice when I want to stun 1 or 2 in a mob before I jump to the casters. Of course your strength won't give it a great DC but when SF fails or you don't have ki you'll have a quick backup.

Another one that I had originally but swapped out as the build progressed. Can't remember why this one got tossed now, but at first I wanted it for the exact same reason you say. I really want to work it back in, so I'll see what I can do.

If you like phoenix, consider dropping the concentration/balance and maybe turtle III or IV. This will free up some enh for recovery. I only took concentration I or II and stopped. My standing ki is 60. I used concentration as a dump enh for filling when I needed to spend a point or two to open up something else.

Okay. Good advice. I went all the way with conc and turtle simply because I wanted to maximise those lines, hate going in half way. However I'll probably need to sacrifice something to get the recovery line, so thanks for the suggestion on what to dump.

As for dodge... if you keep it, you can switch to dark with your free feat respec if you want to. I considered selecting my feats in a way that would allow me to swap over at Fred. Didn't do it... but I thought it would be a good idea.

'nother good point here. I'll keep it in mind.


K, going back to the planner.

edit: just looked at the post and it's pretty long. Thanks in advance for sticking with me and investing the time and effort to help me. Very much appreciated.

edit2: K, v.2 is up on page 1. Bummed about not being able to fit both VoidIV and ShintaoIII. Confirmed that the various low skills were there from stat bonuses and such. All skill points spent on conc/bal/jump, took out umd. Couldn't fit the second stunning feat. Have another look guys?

elg582
07-12-2011, 02:28 PM
OK, here are some alternate points of view:

Hotbars:

I put one on top of my main bar which will hold all my strikes and stuns, trip, etc, which I can swap onto my main bar as needed. Other hotbars should have stances, mediation, wholeness of body; things that toggle or are rarely used, like sneak, slow fall, etc.

Stats:

We have to talk about this, or the discussion of actual gameplay doesn't make any sense. There are two ways to build a monk, and they aren't what everyone thinks: There are min/max monks, and there are balance monks.

Play:

Min/max monks work as well as any other class; they will have their strengths and weaknesses, you just have to learn how to handle opponents that you are not optimized for. Dex/Wis dark monks, for example, are at something of a disadvantage against undead and other negative-energy immune enemies, light finesse monks fall behind in raw DPS, and STR/CON monks of either path have a hard time getting the most out of their special abilities.

Balance monks are not quite as effective against their most vulnerable enemies, but then, they don't really wind up with any weaknesses, either; one of your elemental or light/dark attacks will work against whatever you are up against, and you should wind up with access to at least tier 3 in each (although I usually skip water 3).

Mandatory feats:

TWF/iTWF/gTWF
Tougness
Power Attack
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning

Optional Feats:

Stunning Fist (required for Shintao PrE)
Stunning Blow
Dodge (required for Ninja PrE)
Dragonmarks


My 2 CP:

Elves make the best monks :)

SensaiRyu
07-12-2011, 04:52 PM
edit2: K, v.2 is up on page 1. Bummed about not being able to fit both VoidIV and ShintaoIII. Confirmed that the various low skills were there from stat bonuses and such. All skill points spent on conc/bal/jump, took out umd. Couldn't fit the second stunning feat. Have another look guys?

I strongly suggest that for v.3 you fit Void IV in. I started it on my second life - after a suggestion to one of my build posts. Absolutely worth it.

I use void IV a lot. I finally started noticing it when it proc'd. It works on epic mobs - I haven't started epic yet. Just don't use it on your ships target dummy :eek:

I took your build (no skills), removed Wisdom II and III - max wis is 22 instead of 24. +1 for DC isn't that much overall. Also there are 4 enh points left over. Add Grandmaster of Mountains or Ocean or even Tortoise III... It has Void IV and Shintao III and most of your other enh selections.

Don't take Weapon Focus bludg unless there's something other than the +1 to attack that you get and I'm unaware of. I put a toughness at lvl 18 instead. Final hp is 30 points more than your v.2 (I also did Tough II).

Just something for you to look at. I tried to keep with your selections as much as possible. Oh... +3 tombs apply at lvl 12 I think and unless you have some lying around you may not want to count on getting them. +2 tombs are at lvl 7.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(20 Monk)
Hit Points: 334
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 19
Will: 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 13 16
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 16 22
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1


Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Fists of Iron
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Shintao Monk I
Enhancement: Shintao Monk II
Enhancement: Shintao Monk III
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Void Strike II
Enhancement: Void Strike III
Enhancement: Void Strike IV
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Master of the Sea
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I

EssenceofEvil
07-12-2011, 05:19 PM
I went dark dex/wis halfing monk. At first I thought I made a mistake as I couldn't self heal, but that all changed when I realized that with wholeness of body I just got at level 8 along with ninja spy's ability to regen ki in stealth mode.. given enough time.. I can heal myself indefinitely given enough time in between fights. Shes also a tough little bugger. Most of the time if my fists can't beat through it my special damage from my handwraps will.. and since I'm in wind stance I get lots and lots and lots of hits.

My biggest issue as a dex/wis dark monk is undead. I can't use my extra damage from the dark attack, but as of right now adept of wind's shocking attack is a decent substitute. I also realized I have to reset my AP when I reach level nine since I didn't know Touch of Doom was able to be bought with ap then.. well I guess adept of rain will have to take a sit till I can buy it again. Doesn't really improve my wisdom from the previous stance anyhow.

I'm almost tempted to try that WF monk, but I hear its a TR kind of build.

BOgre
07-12-2011, 05:22 PM
The tomes I added in simply for the stat prereqs on the various enhancements. I plunked them in at lvl 1 in the planner just for ease of clicking in the planner itself... Not meant to indicate that I'll have them at lvl 1 or be using them as soon as possible either... On that note: do stat bonuses on gear count towards those prereqs? Or do they have to be 'pure'?

As for Void IV, I really really want it in there, but I don't see how I can. It's not the AP cost, it's the progression that has me stymied. I HAD to take wis I/II in order to meet the progression prereq for whatever it was I needed next. If there's an Apollo XIII esque progression order trick to getting what I want without the fluff, I'm dying to find out what it is.

Point taken re: WF:Bludgeon vs Toughness. v.3 will likely see that change.

Edit for braegan below: Yup, exactly what I mean. Thank you. :)

Edit for SensaiRyu: Got it. All worked in now. sweetness.

Braegan
07-12-2011, 05:28 PM
The tomes I added in simply for the stat prereqs on the various enhancements. I plunked them in at lvl 1 in the planner just for ease of clicking in the planner itself... Not meant to indicate that I'll have them at lvl 1 or be using them as soon as possible either... On that note: do stat bonuses on gear count towards those prereqs? Or do they have to be 'pure'?

As for Void IV, I really really want it in there, but I don't see how I can. It's not the AP cost, it's the progression that has me stymied. I HAD to take wis I/II in order to meet the progression prereq for whatever it was I needed next. If there's an Apollo XIII esque progression order trick to getting what I want without the fluff, I'm dying to find out what it is. Oh, and the wisI/II are for weapon finesse too... but I can live without them. ;)

Point taken re: WF:Bludgeon vs Toughness. v.3 will likely see that change.

If you mean bonuses for stats to be eligible for stances, then no gear does not count. Only pure stat, tomes and level up points count towards that.

SensaiRyu
07-13-2011, 12:51 AM
If you mean bonuses for stats to be eligible for stances, then no gear does not count. Only pure stat, tomes and level up points count towards that.

AND enh selection doesn't count either.