PDA

View Full Version : Epic Tempest's Spine



Shade
07-09-2011, 08:27 AM
Epic Tempest's Spine

Intro:
We all want it. It's that one quest that we really felt was truly epic back a million years ago when we were all level10 and thought we were epic with our uber Vorpal scimitars! These days its nothing more then a poor XP/min lowbie quest not worth running except for off chance at the 1 decent twink item it drops (maelstrom) Now we'll probably never get it, but one can dream right?

Monsters:
The most iconic and important mobs here have to be
The Drow Blackguards: Back in DDO's original release, the cap was 10, we were very limited in gear and buffs. But turbine say fit to give these dudes about 50 AC... So it was all about rolling a 20 to try to take them down, and making good use of web or other CC to stay alive, as they hit hard and casters otherwise simply did not have the power back then to kill more then 1 or 2 before running out of SP. It was actually a ton of fun.. 4-10 melee all swinging like crazy at 1 webbed mob that just refuses to go down hah aha!
Bring back that challenge:
Give them insane NEAR-unbeatable AC: 100. Yes we can hit a 100 AC with all the crazy buffs/debuffs we have these days, tho just barely.. Would need max debuffs/destruction, bard songs, the works.. But we can hit it. Well some. Those who cant? roll a 20 =) Or play a caster:
They will be very killable by casters, but not easily: Drow around CR38 so 48+ SR standard of course, Fort saves vs death spells +45, Will saves fairly high. Reflex very low. Elemental resistance in the 200 range for all 4, so small damage DOTs are ineffective. But give them relatively low HP (for an epic raid mob any ways : About 2000 should work.. That would take about 2-3 maxxed polar rays to take 1 down, a fair cost.)
To give melee a chance: Give them very poor Str/Dex/balance scores (they are just elves after all) so if we can actually manage to land a strike, we can potentially trip them for another -4 AC at least.

Giants: Not a ton in here really, so bring the pain: 10k+ HP, 150+ damage a swing (they swing slow so don't worry), Super saves: 40+ fort/will.. Weakness would be reflex, so spells like ottilukes should be very effective on the fire types.

Beholders: Epic beholders in other epic quests are just a joke.. Lvl20 epic players know how to handle a beholder.. We put on death block, we cure the negative levels or wear silver flames .. They are literally no threat - i can solo all of them on all of my characters in von1/3 or any other quest blindfolded. Buff them up with some mega HP (20K at least), and give them some more nasty rays like trap the soul at a solid DC (40 would be fair).
I mean theres only what 2 in this raid any ways, they should be feared. Definitely orange named at least so they get death block. Also give them a good amount of DR/Byeshk like their meant to have (PnP versions have this, in eberon setting)

The Marut:
Give him a Horoth-like mega range to his stun ability. Along with a DC60 fort save. Really make us want to plan positioning (healers WAY back) or use monks to prevent stuns. Add a couple random spawns of various smaller lesser maruts and other planer beings to mix up the fight at various HP marks (80%/50%/etc)

Sor'jek:
No matter how strong you make him, he alone as a super slow giant cant challenge an epic raid party due to his poor speed alone.. And being this raid should be designed to take 60-90+ minutes to complete in a GOOD run.. Perhaps reduce his ability to knock you off the platform to a single attempt early on - survive that will correct positioning and your up there for the duration of the battle.
But to add some challenge:
His various ice flenser buddies:
Don't re-spawn in the sense you kill them and they come back.. But rather contiguously spawn more and more.. So they must be dealt with ala Velahs claws. Low saves so CC can work in a pinch, but eventually they need to be killed as too many will overwhelm the party with there maximized ice storms.

Sor'jek could otherwise be as is, will tons more HP and the puzzle and shards being required. Could be cool if you add a random element where he occasions messes up the puzzle ala Delirium and you have to fix it to disable his regeneration/various other ability again. Perhaps add a massive damage reflection ability too while his ability are active, so overzealous melee would kill themselves if they don't keep a careful eye on the puzzle.

Traps: Just have them murder everyone ,and a lot more traps. and random traps. Oh and add a single random devastating game over trap effect to 1 random trap also: If you die in it, it teleports your soul stone to Sor'jek platform.. (Where you can be rescued if the rest of your party can reach you)
Make us really fear the traps as we are never quite sure which one is the evil teleport trap.. So we have rogues really get to play rogues and disable each traps carefully (even the ones that spawn mobs!). Rogues were traditionally rather essential for this raid any ways, so helps keep the theme (Original release knock did not exist, and the raid has required doors that are locked).

Loot (Tempest's Spine already has named loot.. Not particularly exciting named loot, but something we can work with at least)
Distribution can be self contained:
Scrolls from kills
Seals at a low drop rate from all side chests (~3%)
Shards at a standard drop rate from the end epic chest (16%)
(should balance it out about right, as there are about 8-11 side chests, and 1 end.. (8*3 = 24% vs 16%.. Shards would probably still be limiting factors, as it should be)
Named items drop at decent rates in specific chests per item. But unlike normal difficulties, these versions are BTC. (This would ensure players who want the items and run the quest to upgrade would get them, without having worry about trading and specific items becoming very costly - leave that up to the scroll market)
That and flooding the lowbie market with more and more unbound lvl2 maelstrom twink-age wouldn't be good for the economy.

And ofcourse this raid is going to be ultra-hard, so the loot has to be good =)

Epic Choker of the Silver Tongue (Necklace):
Diplomacy,Bluff: +20
Clicky:
Silver Tongue:
3x a day clicker
Reduces threat generated from spell casting by 50%.
Duration: 2 minutes
Green Slot

Epic Cloak of Invisibility:
Protection +5
Invisibility Guard
Mass Invisibility - CL25, 3x
Green Slot

Epic Elemental Mithral Breastplate
+6, enhanced AC equal to highest light armor
Light Reinforced Plating (Physical damage vulnerability is decreased by 2.5%)
Greater Cold/Fire Resist
Inherent Cold/Fire Resist 10
Cold/Fire Absorption 10%
Seeker 4
Blue Slot

Idea here is some nice combination of very useful defense and some minor offense, ideal for anyone who wants to maintain their evasion and tank damage heavy caster type bosses.

Epic Eternal Wand of Charm Monster
CL:20, DC:35
10x charges

Epic FullPlate of Giants:
+6 Enhancement Bonus
Mithral
Armor Check -4
SF: 10%
DR 6/-
Medium Reinforced Plating (Physical damage vulnerability is decreased by 5%)
Stunning +4
Blue Slot
Colorless Slot

Idea here is a simple but very effective medium armor. Provides very solid DR to make it useful to fighters, damage mitigation to make it useful to barbarians or other medium armor tanks, and a very nice stun +4 to make it useful for anyone with stunning blow. Armor check penalty remains high since this armor was original designed for giants, so its not as maneuverable.

The fun part.. Weight: 60,000 lbs
So casters thinking of using this by slotting some -SF stuff in there better think again, they may not even be able to carry it muahahaha. It is made for giants after all, it should be pretty heavy.
Doesn't look like much for stats, but stunning +4 on every weapon can be ultra useful in some cases.


Epic Ancient Wand of Stoneskin:
CL:8, 5 charges. Slow recharge: 3min per charge.

The idea behind this is that I think they actually had a eternal wand of stoneskin in Tempest's Spine in beta. I remember seeing it on there old school items list.. I believe it was deleted before release as it was deemed too powerful.. But now these days for epic, it really wouldn't be, given a slow cast times/recharge time and low CL.

Base version would be:
Broken Ancient Wand
Description:
This is a broken wand of unique design. Perhaps a relic of a long lost civilization? You feel as if this wand may actually still work even though it is broken..
As a trick it actually appears to work tho,as it lists the stoneskin spell and 5 charges
Upon using it in a party member however, it hits them with ottos resistable dance (DC30) =)


Epic Gleaming Adamantine Plate:
This would be the more tank fighter/paladin type armor:
+9 Enhancement Bonus
Seems high, but it's otherwise straight heavy armor. No Mithral to add Dex, and no increase base, so it actually just barely competes with other epic heavy armor. (8 base + 9 = 17 armor +1 Dex, Epic Red plate is 16 +2 Dex, plus can be increased to 17 armor)
Adamantine
+10% Healing Amplification
Heavy Reinforced Plating (Physical damage vulnerability is decreased by 7.5%)
Proof Against Poison
Disease Immunity
Epic Command:
+3 epic bonus to all charisma based skills. -12 penalty to hide checks.
DR10/Epic (Huge DR, but keep in mind most raid bosses, even their non epic forms can bypass this, so ftr/pal would still need a seperate source for DR for bosses)
Weight: 10,000 lbs

Should make it the ultimate tank armor. Theres really no very cool tank armor in the game now, and there really should be. This would be it. 10% amp is not available in any other slot then DT armor.. So this is pretty much the ultimate DT armor upgrade, as it enhances your straight damage mitigation with the plating, provides some nice immunities, and a bug boost to intimidate all in 1.

Epic Goggles of Perception:
Spot +20
Search +20
Exceptional Reflex Save +2
Empty Yellow Slot
Teleport Clicky (1x)

Yea very similar to the goggles of time sensing, but hard not to be without ignoring the theme of the item.. The teleport clicky will make them very useful tho even if you already have the time sensing.

Epic Imbued Dark Leaf Banded Armor
+6
Epic Resistance +6
Healing Augmentation IX
Fire Augmentation IX
Blue Slot

This would make very good cleric/favored soul armor.. Or perhaps even someday Druid armor. As the healing augmentation should boost the power (+2 CL) of all your uncapped cure/healing spells - which ATM is actually pretty much all the cure mass types, as they go up to 25+. Not a huge boost, but given healers otherwise have almost no options to boost healing power, it's good to start small.

Epic Robe of Arcane Power:
Wizardry VII (+250SP)
Superior Potency VIII
Lesser Arcane Augmentation IX (+1 CL to all spells)
Superior Force Augmentation IX (+5 CL to force spells)
Magic Missile Unlock:
The amount of magic missiles you may cast no longer has any caster level cap. You can now cast a full 11 magic missiles per cast at CL20, 12 at CL22, and so on. (Missiles from SLAs are still capped)
Set Bonus with Epic Staff of Arcane Power:
You gain the effects of Epic force augmentation IX (+10 caster levels to force spells)
Stacking note: Like-type augmentations don't stack (superior force + epic force = +10 only, but unlike ones do stack.. Arcane aug + epic force = +12 for force spells, as they are arcane also)

Epic Robe of Potency:
Superior Potency IX (+50%)
Spell Frenzy Clicky (per ear dweller)
Featherfall
Concentration +20
Blue Slot
Exclusive

Epic Maelstrom (Greataxe):
3d12 +10
20/x4
Stunning +4
Anarchic Power (3d6 damage versus lawful targets, 6d6/9d6/12d6 on crits for x2/3/4 multiplier, and 2 negative levels on a natural 20, only versus lawful targets, red/purple named immune to the negative levels)
Icy Blast (Per the PnP version, not the DDO version. The current DDO version from shroud weapons should be renamed "Icy Surge" as its weaker then the PnP version)
PnP description:
Icy Blast

On command, an icy blast weapon is sheathed in icy cold (though this deals no damage to the wielder). On any hit, this cold washes over the creature struck, dealing +3d6 points of bonus cold damage. On a successful critical hit it instead deals +6d6 points of cold damage (or +9d6 if the critical multiplier is ×3, or +12d6 if the critical multiplier is ×4). Bows, crossbows, and slings with this special ability bestow the bonus cold damage upon their ammunition.
(DDO coding would have it do the base + crit on crits tho, not "instead" of, to keep it inline with otherstuff.)

Aura of the storm:
Nearby party members (not including yourself) gain the effects of Anarchic Power.
Green Slot (Can't add any DR break, but have some interesting choices at least)

Weight: 100,000 lbs (This much power should only be in the hands of the very strong)

Calculated damage versus ESoS: (Stats: Barb20, Damage mod: 80, IC:Slash, Seeker:10)
ESoS: 160.125
Epic Maelstrom - if every single bit of bonus dice works:
156.725 (Would be very slightly higher due to greataxes faster swingrate, about matching the ESoS)

This design is intended to make this weapon not yet another boring pit fiend beater (were getting one with the antique upgrade any ways) But rather something more fun and unique. It sits just slightly behind ESoS in raw power potential (similar dmg, but no red slot to break simple DRs. and much of its damage relies on a specific enemy type (lawful evil, no cold resist), but has the cool aura, neg lvl and stunning +4 to make it more useful versus specific trash. (Lawful stuff that takes neg lvls and stuns) Being it has no red slot, you can't even bypass basic single DR types, so many other nice epic two handers slotted to break DR would have their place above this.


Epic Nightblade (Falcion)
8d4 +10
Keen so:
15-20/x2 crit
Greater Maiming (x2: 2d6, x3: 4d6, x4: 6d6)
Byeshk
Epic Abberation Bane
Severe Wounds - Deals 1% HP damage per hit versus targets that can bleed. (Undead, Elementals and Constructs are immune this effect). Red named enemies are 50% resistant to this effect. Purple named enemies are immune to this effect.
Red slot

Calculated DPS versus ESoS: (Stats: Barb20, Dmg mod: 80, Seeker:10)
ESoS: 160.125
Epic Nightblade vs non-abberation:
133.1
Epic Nightblade vs abberation:
163.05
Doesn't include the 1% hp damage per hit.

This design makes the nightblade the ultimate abberation hunter, surpassing the ESoS in raw power for abberations only. For non abberations it will still be useful versus extremely high HP targets. And Especially useful in the hands of a lower-dps character, as no matter what you will be able to contribute at least 1% hp damage per swing, which can be extremely useful in certain tough situations.
Versus rednamed bosses you'd only do 0.5% per swing, but still a useful amount of damage if its a very tough enemy.
For balance reasons, purple named would be immune to the severe wounds effects.

Epic Star of Irian (Morningstar):
+6 Epic Morningstar
(2d8 +6 base)
20/x3 crit
Epic Devotion VI
Holy
Holy Burst
Radiant Burst (2d6 light dmg, and 3d6/4d6/5d6 on crits for x2/3/4)
Radiant Blast (per epic handwraps 2%, 400 light dmg)
Good Blast
Greater Good
Skeletal Rending (Debuff that reduces skeletons fortification by 50% for 3 seconds)
Red Slot
(not req good or umd check)

Hahaha that looks awesome doesn't it? I designed this to look crazy awesome.. Yet if you really get into the calculations about this weapon, you'll see it's not really a big jump from what we have now. As it's missing the huge one: greater disruption. This is the amount of effects you need on 1 weapon just to compete with a triple pos warhammer due to greater disruption. And versus critibal targets: It's still far behind your standard lit2 khopesh. Only place it might really shine is other 100% fort targets the dice works versus, perhaps portals.. Other constructs are immune to a lot of that.

Here's the calc:
Triple Pos Warhammer versus skeleton:
99.25 = 62.225(Weapon) + 37.025(Bonus)
Epic Star versus skeleton (doesn't factor in the rending extra crit chance, but for a blunt wep and the fact most ppl dont have IC blunt - it won't add much for straight dps, but might add some sneak attacks for rogues)

100.175 = 66.5(Weapon) + 33.675(Bonus)

dodger72
07-09-2011, 09:26 AM
I like it.

Dev's....please implement.

mws2970
07-09-2011, 09:29 AM
Yes please?

/signed

sirgog
07-09-2011, 09:36 AM
I've wanted TS epic for a long time. It wouldn't be my first choice for a very high difficulty epic (Invaders or Relic of a Sovereign Past would fit that better, IMO), but if it was to be tuned to be super tough:


Your Blackguards would need a blanket immunity to Fascinate, or else they'd be trivial. Kill them with casters when scrollfarming, run past otherwise.
Most or all giants would need to be orange-named (otherwise 2-3 casters with Power Word Kill would trivialise them, you almost never encounter more than 3 at once). Red named is an option, but orange is IMO better, so you can (if you have a great DC) try to land CC.
Sor'jek needs Haste; maybe a Haste effect players can somehow suppress. Possibly an epic Haste granting much, much more than +15% swing speed.
And, of course, Monks and Rangers would need viable options to deal with high/extreme AC mobs, and Fire/Ice would be pretty much everyone's stumbling block.


As for the traps - super-nasty traps don't make content harder, they just make it take longer and make everyone bored while they are searched out. Run epic VON5 and deliberately have the whole group go north first if you want to see this in action. /snooze until the trapskilled toons have soloed an encounter.
Epic Chains of Flame gets the balance right. Nasty traps that you really do want to disarm, but that you can get past if everyone's rogues are on timer.

Battlehawke
07-09-2011, 09:49 AM
I hope a Dev is watching, this is beautiful.

redraider
07-09-2011, 09:53 AM
It was way too much to read, so i didn't. :p

Having said that... I want Epic tempest Spine.

Wildseed
07-09-2011, 09:55 AM
snip



Your Blackguards would need a blanket immunity to Fascinate, or else they'd be trivial. Kill them with casters when scrollfarming, run past otherwise.
Most or all giants would need to be orange-named (otherwise 2-3 casters with Power Word Kill would trivialise them, you almost never encounter more than 3 at once). Red named is an option, but orange is IMO better, so you can (if you have a great DC) try to land CC.

We just got rid of blanket immunities, please don't put them back. And btw, orange named mobs can be instakilled, so making them orange would do nothing as far as power word kill. Since there's so many mobs in TS why would it matter if they were instakilled, have to crack the SR to do such on the drow.

Gkar
07-09-2011, 10:08 AM
Epic TS would be....Epic!

KillEveryone
07-09-2011, 10:12 AM
Not that I wouldn't mind seeing Tempest Spine epic'ed and has been asked for several times, I don't think they'll epic F2P stuff. Then again, they may require purchase of epic version of a F2P quest.

jcTharin
07-09-2011, 10:13 AM
hell yes to epic TS

no to your proposal for the drow. sounds exactly like the old hold and beat down from before they nerfed hold, except without the hold.

no to the equipment being 6712394 pounds.

Memnir
07-09-2011, 10:13 AM
.
.
.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn12/EnPsyane/spidey12.gif
.
.
.
My Awesome Idea sense is tingling!

/signed

killerzee25
07-09-2011, 10:25 AM
snip


We just got rid of blanket immunities, please don't put them back. And btw, orange named mobs can be instakilled, so making them orange would do nothing as far as power word kill. Since there's so many mobs in TS why would it matter if they were instakilled, have to crack the SR to do such on the drow.

As to the orange names as of patch 1 in update 9 epic orange named mobs are immune to instadeath.

scottmike0
07-09-2011, 10:36 AM
As to the orange names as of patch 1 in update 9 epic orange named mobs are immune to instadeath.

looks cool
/signed

Sarisa
07-09-2011, 10:56 AM
Being orange named would make the Blackguards immune to fascinate.

Shade
07-09-2011, 12:44 PM
Kill them with casters when scrollfarming, run past otherwise.
Runpast?
Youd run right into the trap just past them, then get your soulstone teleported ot the penalty box =) You have to fight them on epic.
Also they'd be immune to the traps ofcourse.



Most or all giants would need to be orange-named (otherwise 2-3 casters with Power Word Kill would trivialise them, you almost never encounter more than 3 at once).
Yea oranged named would be fine. I'd prefer just givign them like +50 fort save vs death spells tho, so you could get that very rare fod/assinate in and i'd be like, wow, nice insta kill.. Cuz youd almost never see it happen. Yea power word kill messes up raids tho true if you have a lot of casters that co-ordinate it could trivalize it. Perhaps like 90% of em could be oranged named, and just have a few weaker non oranged with high fort save.


Sor'jek needs Haste; maybe a Haste effect players can somehow suppress. Possibly an epic Haste granting much, much more than +15% swing speed.
Even with haste, giants are very slow (from what I see when i charm and haste one).. So I think the best way to add challenge to that encouter is just like I said, heavy trash spawns, that are not respawns like ToD, but rather continuous more like velah - but faster and more deadly, and will eventaully overwealm the party if hes not dealth with quickly. It should be challenging enough, and end in a permanent failure. (Some kind of lock out could be present, but the fact the flenser wouldnt stop spawning until like say theres 50 of em, would just lead to an instant wipe if you re-tried anyways)


And, of course, Monks and Rangers would need viable options to deal with high/extreme AC mobs, and Fire/Ice would be pretty much everyone's stumbling block.
Well the ACs for most trash would be low enough for monks. The blackguards are designed to be beyond the reach of everyone but the most 100% maxxed melee, so in weaker groups with mostly monk/ranger dps, youd just use casters for those.


As for the traps - super-nasty traps don't make content harder, they just make it take longer and make everyone bored while they are searched out. Run epic VON5 and deliberately have the whole group go north first if you want to see this in action. /snooze until the trapskilled toons have soloed an encounter.

Disaagree. Why refernce an illogical situation that would never happen as you example..
I've done tons of von5 epics, and we never wait on the traps because I get a rogue if not 2, and coordinate them effectively.. EG: Rog does 1 west trap, then does all north while party clears west and east.. no time lost waiting. We would obviously do the same on TS eventually after learning it on epic. (Rogue takes out the trap behind blackguards while we beat/nuke em down)

And remember - TS was ALWAYS intended to REQUIRE a rogue to win (original release = locked doors, no knock spell in the game). Why break that tradition. I think it's best to include stuff for every class, especially rogues iwth there unique skills.

Like I said, some of the traps would be random, so there would be challenge in discovering all the "gotcha!" points as each run, at leas for the first X runs could be different. So fun stuff like scouting and figuring out the traps can happen, even for veterans of TS on lower difficulties.


Epic Chains of Flame gets the balance right. Nasty traps that you really do want to disarm, but that you can get past if everyone's rogues are on timer.
Hmm a real example thats not illogical that you like.. No reason why TS can't be like that, currently most of its traps are dodgeable anywaysy, that wouldn't change too much.. Just you'd want a rogue as not everyone would have the skill to do so.


Being orange named would make the Blackguards immune to fascinate.
Nah the ONLY immunity an oranged name gets, and only on epic, is deathblock. Mindblock would work.

Not sure thats neccesary tho, as they could just have willsaves in the 70+ so theyd be very hard to facinate, and doign so could be costly given Epic TS would be so long that conserving your songs may be needed.


no to your proposal for the drow. sounds exactly like the old hold and beat down from before they nerfed hold, except without the hold.
k that makes absolutely no sense.
The mass hold gameply was boring because the mobs couldn't fight back, and it took a while to beatdown an boring stationary oponent, so it just felt like we were grinding away at nothing and lost its challenge in that sense.. The drow have low hp, but ultra high willsaves, and will be able to fight back with a vengeance! - theyd most likely be slashing the squishy casters in half as theyd have little hope in holding them, but be expected to kill them as they have the best tools to do so.. So theres absolutely no logical connection to what your referencing..l. If anything I want them to be very much unlikely any other "trash" mob.. Very challenging, without needing red named immunties.

DoctorWhofan
07-09-2011, 12:52 PM
I never agree with Shade...


Except here.

I WANT EPIC TS NOW!!!!!!!

azrael4h
07-09-2011, 01:23 PM
Instead of making critters orange or red named just to prevent casters from casting anything, why not sprinkle in some enemy casters who cast mass Deathward and mass FoM? Then it adds a bit of strategy by requiring someone to dispel the defenses BEFORE instakilling or holding them.

/Signed otherwise, save the obscene weights on a couple items. That's just screaming "I only want Barbarians to use these items! Nyeah nyeah you can't have them!"

Havok.cry
07-09-2011, 01:26 PM
The goddess of tempest spine has spoken! Implement it now!

licho
07-09-2011, 01:33 PM
Tempest Spine already is epic in feeling, there is not many dungeons where you have the feeling of doing something heroic, but TS is one when you are the hero, giving it second life would be great, and good for game.

mystafyi
07-09-2011, 01:37 PM
zero chance of epic TS.
1st of all its been posted that no epic development will occur till 2012 at the earliest.
2nd, TS is f2p meaning no reason for turbine to spend development funds with no chance of returns.

at least you gave up on calling for gh epic though.... ;)

Shade
07-09-2011, 02:18 PM
Instead of making critters orange or red named just to prevent casters from casting anything, why not sprinkle in some enemy casters who cast mass Deathward and mass FoM? Then it adds a bit of strategy by requiring someone to dispel the defenses BEFORE instakilling or holding them.

/Signed otherwise, save the obscene weights on a couple items. That's just screaming "I only want Barbarians to use these items! Nyeah nyeah you can't have them!"

Yea good ideas, forgot about that. I don't want the giants oranged named either, so just having them start with dispellable DW would be great.
Having monsters cast a mass version rarely works because of the way enemies ai works.. Giant sees you - runs at you, cast casts mass DW and misses the giant..

Can be seen all to often in ToD - right by the steps area, a caster usually cast mass DW, but more often then not, he misses almost all of his allies, as they have already run off.. Then I FoD/wail them all..

That and AI is bad.. Generally stuff that has spells, cast there spellsl ike crazy. So if you dispel a DW on something that can cast it, hes just gona put it back up right away.

So just starting with dispellable DW (which has been done before in at least 1 case: one of the quests in dreaming dark skeleton has that) would be nice.

Shade
07-09-2011, 02:26 PM
zero chance of epic TS.
1st of all its been posted that no epic development will occur till 2012 at the earliest.
2nd, TS is f2p meaning no reason for turbine to spend development funds with no chance of returns.

at least you gave up on calling for gh epic though.... ;)

While I agree in theory (see my into)
the optomistic side of me says both of those can be easily solved.. So i'd up the chance from zero, to maybe 0.000000001% =) .. and hey, if this thread gains enough popularity (maybe a million replies?) that chance may even go up to a full 1 percent!

1. Not everything fernando says has to happen. I mean his wife promised druids in um 2007 I think?.. So yea there not exactly known for keeping to the plan.

I think turbine really underestimates the amount of players that enjoy epic now, as well as how often it gets run compared to anything else at endgame. Sure the original desert stuff was limited to a very small subset of players, but I dont think that was solely because players dont want a challenge. I think it a combination of factors that all coincided at the same time as epics release giving players too much other distractios (F2p was just released, so lotsa players playing with friends in the lower lvl stuff, Recination was just released, so lots of ppl wanted to TR at least once..) These days thats all tittered out, people who love TR still TR, those who enjoyed it for what it was, but are a bit burned on it (myself and thousands of others) run lots of epic.

2. Epic difficulty could be pay to play only, while the regular ones remain free. In many ways it could be very much worth a few hundred points all on it's own. I think Sirgog had some idea where this, along with several other original release DDO quests could go epic at once, and be all put into 1 pay to play pack. Things like epic stormcleave, epic waterworks and other original free stuff could be great too.

Wouldn't need to even all be done at once either. Could just be called "Epic DDO Classic quests" pack, and new ones be added each update, as well as a price increase. That would also work as a sort of veteran reward (early purchasers could get the later ones free).. Something veterans sorely deserve at this point.

joaofalcao
07-09-2011, 02:36 PM
So, using significant development time to make content for less than 1% of the comunity that plays it? Really? Think twice.

Now, I like the idea to see that old content built for epic. Cool feeling of nostalgia and stuff. But that usually does not works.

The OP example of the fight with sorjek is a good one. The fight cannot be made epic because at the time it was designed, there wasnt the notion of epic we have today.

If I were to advice turbine on epic content, my advice would be kinda what they've done of late. Made new packs with epic options. Its easier to desing new content that works on epic rather than adapt old content because that usually does not works.

And regarding the difficult stuff that only 1% or whatever of the players can make, I would rather add it as optional. Make it worth running at least, for a given hot item in an optional chest.

toughguyjoe
07-09-2011, 03:02 PM
I really liked most of it.

Then I read a couple of the lines over again.

I smelled...Shadesauce.

No Shade, you cannot make your awesome weapons and armor so that only characters "like yours" can even put them in their pack.

I'm not sure how you could make a well thought out and good idea for Epic TS and then try to ruin it by making the toys only for certain Strength scores.

Hiding that behind "flavor" is lame and unnecessary.

Just say that you want only people who strive for the same things you do to benefit from the loot, and it would have read like it was supposed to.

Curb the item weights and I'll sign this a thousand times.

azrael4h
07-09-2011, 03:16 PM
Yea good ideas, forgot about that. I don't want the giants oranged named either, so just having them start with dispellable DW would be great.
Having monsters cast a mass version rarely works because of the way enemies ai works.. Giant sees you - runs at you, cast casts mass DW and misses the giant..

Can be seen all to often in ToD - right by the steps area, a caster usually cast mass DW, but more often then not, he misses almost all of his allies, as they have already run off.. Then I FoD/wail them all..

That and AI is bad.. Generally stuff that has spells, cast there spellsl ike crazy. So if you dispel a DW on something that can cast it, hes just gona put it back up right away.

So just starting with dispellable DW (which has been done before in at least 1 case: one of the quests in dreaming dark skeleton has that) would be nice.

Yeah well AI is a sore spot for DDO anyway. Then again your average pugger doesn't wait for DW either. :P Maybe if the caster type had a longer sight range; letting them see the pcs and cast MDW first before the others see the party would work. Crude fix, but better than nothing.

Sarisa
07-09-2011, 03:19 PM
Nah the ONLY immunity an oranged name gets, and only on epic, is deathblock. Mindblock would work.

Not sure thats neccesary tho, as they could just have willsaves in the 70+ so theyd be very hard to facinate, and doign so could be costly given Epic TS would be so long that conserving your songs may be needed.


Orange names are already immune to Fascinate and other song based CC in game, epic and non-epic, and have been for quite some time.

As for being able to dispel their buffs, it depends on the caster level of it. A CL:40 Deathward would be rather difficult to dispel for almost anyone.

If it ever does happen, maybe the map could get fixed after the years of it being broken.

Finally, I would definitely support a "DDO Classics" epic adventure pack. Tempest Spine, Stormcleave Outpost, Gwylan's Stand, Tear of Dakhaan, Church and the Cult, and other such stand-alone quests that have been or still are "epic feeling".

Shade
07-09-2011, 03:37 PM
So, using significant development time to make content for less than 1% of the comunity that plays it? Really? Think twice.
Extremely arrogant to even being to think you can pinpoint the amount of players that enjoy epic content at 1%.

While my rough guess based on the fact i've ran over 500 epic runs (nearly all pugs with a huge variety of players) in the original desert release would put the figure at around 5-10%.. Today thats not anywhere near as low these days. I'd put at it more like 50% minimum today (for players at least somewhat interested in epic, if not constantly grinding it).

These days I see an INCREDIBLE amount of epic lfms on khyber. They are pretty much constant and seem to be far more likely to be ran at high lvls then anything else.

Whatever the exact figure may be, it's definetely not 1%. No one can say for sure, but I think just based on observing the lfms, and browsing myddo for how many thousands of players have epic gear these days can show that the number is definetely high these days. I'd say out of all active players, that have at least 1 level20, over 50% of them are interested in epic and run it at least ocoassionaly, while at least 20% just plain low epic and prefer to run it above and beyond anything else. If turbine continued to improve epic as they have bene, I bet that percentage would rise to 75% or more.

Things have changed turbine:
Epic these days is very accessesible and very fun for a large amount of players. The fact this thread got so many replies in such a short amount of time just further goes to proove that fact.

Shade
07-09-2011, 03:44 PM
Orange names are already immune to Fascinate and other song based CC in game, epic and non-epic, and have been for quite some time.

As for being able to dispel their buffs, it depends on the caster level of it. A CL:40 Deathward would be rather difficult to dispel for almost anyone.

If it ever does happen, maybe the map could get fixed after the years of it being broken.

Finally, I would definitely support a "DDO Classics" epic adventure pack. Tempest Spine, Stormcleave Outpost, Gwylan's Stand, Tear of Dakhaan, Church and the Cult, and other such stand-alone quests that have been or still are "epic feeling".

If that's the case its a new change to songs. Tho I'll addmit I haven't played a bard since like 2007 heh. But it definetely worked at one point. Oranged named back then were essentially equal to any old trash mob, no immunities what so ever.

Re: CL. Well with autobuffs, generally the CL is = the minimum. So it would be 7 for DW. Thats the case for the giant skele in reclaiming memories. He is CR20+, but his buff is CL7.

CL40 would be 100% impossible to dispel. As it works like this for greater dispel:
You must make a caster level check of 1d20+your caster level (Maximum caster level 20.) of DC 11+spell's caster level to remove an effect.
So 11 + 40 = 51
20 + roll of 20 = 40.
I'd suggest a fairly easy lvl of dispelling, enough to prevent wands, but not enough to stop any real casters.
Say CL14 (DC25)
so that would make it very hard for wands to work, while regular caster spell would work on roll of 5.

Shade
07-09-2011, 03:51 PM
No Shade, you cannot make your awesome weapons and armor so that only characters "like yours" can even put them in their pack.


For the record all my melee have epic marilith chain and wouldn't really change into the new stuff I designed as primary armor.

I think any and every character even capable of contributing on epic has enough str to carry some heavy armor. Youd need something patheticli low like 30 to handle the figures I put..

My character can actually carry something ******** like 20 million ponds of equipment. So if they were exclusively designed for me, and thosel ike me, I would set the weight to at 5 million pounds, not 10,000 =)

I tried to design the loot to appeal to all classes and styles, within the restrictions of the base item and theme.

If you have better ideas, please present them. It's a lot more constructive then saying "no because i dont like u"

Tobril
07-09-2011, 03:59 PM
Weights of giants (lbs) taken from the SRD:

Storm ~12,000
Fire ~7,000
Cloud ~5,000
Frost ~2,800
Stone ~1,500
Hill ~1,100

Sarisa
07-09-2011, 04:01 PM
If that's the case its a new change to songs. Tho I'll addmit I haven't played a bard since like 2007 heh. But it definetely worked at one point. Oranged named back then were essentially equal to any old trash mob, no immunities what so ever.

From a quick forum search, it looks like it was an undocumented change in late 2007 or early 2008. The current implementation gives song immunity to orange names.

Pwesiela
07-09-2011, 04:03 PM
For the record all my melee have epic marilith chain and wouldn't really change into the new stuff I designed as primary armor.

I think any and every character even capable of contributing on epic has enough str to carry some heavy armor. Youd need something patheticli low like 30 to handle the figures I put..

My character can actually carry something ******** like 20 million ponds of equipment. So if they were exclusively designed for me, and thosel ike me, I would set the weight to at 5 million pounds, not 10,000 =)

I tried to design the loot to appeal to all classes and styles, within the restrictions of the base item and theme.

If you have better ideas, please present them. It's a lot more constructive then saying "no because i dont like u"

/Signed, minus the weights. But I have a reason at least for that objection. If it were truly giant armor that weighed 10,000 lbs, it would be giant sized and no one would be able to wear it. Keep all the metal and reforge it into a smaller size? The armor would be too thick to wear. We're in a magical world, and this magical world includes the altering of 1 piece of armor to fit any race, either gender. So, while I have no problem with the armor weighing a lot, 10,000 is a bit further than excessive. Heck, all other plates are what....50 lbs? A 2000% increase is unwarranted.

Otherwise, I'd love to revisit TS, GS, SC, XC, and other stand alone epic feeling quests again on epic!

Tobril
07-09-2011, 04:07 PM
While you fan-fiction ideas are interesting, I’d rather development focus on
new quests instead of re-hashing the same old-and-ran-to-death content
of days long gone.

Shade
07-09-2011, 04:21 PM
So, while I have no problem with the armor weighing a lot, 10,000 is a bit further than excessive. Heck, all other plates are what....50 lbs? A 2000% increase is unwarranted.

Well the thing is, are strength stats for epic gear characters are excessive too. So if they want to at all balance weights towards what we actaully have.. Then yea, we need excessive numbers.

So 50lb is a pen and paper value, balanced around a strength limit of 10-20 (maybe 24 tops).. We have carrying capacities that FAR exceed a 2000% increase, so why not make the jump in other areas to match?

The idea was just too add yet another layer of complexity to the loot.

The mithral armor for example, I set the SF low enough that a battle-type caster could get it to 0% and benefit from it ..

But because I don't think plain low str casters should have such power (especially the mitigation), I set the weight really high, so really only a very high str caster could manage it.

Plus it would just be funny without really hurting anything. Realisticly every single realy melee who runs epic NEVER changes from light load, and these figures woudln't change that.. But would add some flavour.

Yea it's not realistic, but neither is the fact my character can carry 24 million pounds lol... It's a fantasy game, its magic armor.. It doesn't need to make any sense.

Shade
07-09-2011, 04:22 PM
From a quick forum search, it looks like it was an undocumented change in late 2007 or early 2008. The current implementation gives song immunity to orange names.

Would make sense why we couldn't figure out how to facinate the trash in the chronoscope end fight the other day... I figured it had no special immunities listed like the ToD trash does, so why wouldn't it work.
But yea there all oranged named, so that must be it.

Weird stealth nerf.

joaofalcao
07-09-2011, 04:29 PM
Extremely arrogant to even being to think you can pinpoint the amount of players that enjoy epic content at 1%.

lol. Extremely arrogant? Chill there pal. We are all grown up here exposing our opinions. And it seems youre missunderstanding me.

I am not saying that epic enjoying players are at the 1% base. I am saying that stuff like this:



Give them insane NEAR-unbeatable AC: 100. Yes we can hit a 100 AC with all the crazy buffs/debuffs we have these days, tho just barely.. Would need max debuffs/destruction, bard songs, the works.. But we can hit it. Well some. Those who cant? roll a 20 =) Or play a caster:

is for less than 1% of the playing community.

Let me select it in a narrower manner so you can see what I mean.


But we can hit it. Well some.

This some you mention, is what I call less than 1%.

Now check it out how you end your paragraph.


Those who cant? roll a 20 =) Or play a caster:

I cant put my feelings into words here.....

But suffice to say, what I mean is: Have stuff like that optional. The game is meant to be played by everyone. We have enough barbarian oriented content.

boricua_in_cali
07-09-2011, 04:30 PM
Yes please. We need a new kick-our @$$s epic raid. Very well written description, OP. +1 for creativity and effort.

toughguyjoe
07-09-2011, 04:32 PM
For the record all my melee have epic marilith chain and wouldn't really change into the new stuff I designed as primary armor.

I think any and every character even capable of contributing on epic has enough str to carry some heavy armor. Youd need something patheticli low like 30 to handle the figures I put..

My character can actually carry something ******** like 20 million ponds of equipment. So if they were exclusively designed for me, and thosel ike me, I would set the weight to at 5 million pounds, not 10,000 =)

I tried to design the loot to appeal to all classes and styles, within the restrictions of the base item and theme.

If you have better ideas, please present them. It's a lot more constructive then saying "no because i dont like u"

You misunderstand.

I don't dislike you Shade. I dislike the idea that a battle cleric can't put on those armors because his strength isn't high enough.

I just feel that Gear should not be pigeon holed for people with certain ability scores. *shrug*

Shade
07-09-2011, 04:35 PM
While you fan-fiction ideas are interesting, I’d rather development focus on
new quests instead of re-hashing the same old-and-ran-to-death content
of days long gone.

I agree in a way, but if you really think hard about how development works, you'd realise there is not too much overlap in these areas.

People who design dungeons for example - EG: Keeper, would have zero involvment in this project. So she could continue to work on new dungeons (tho I think turbine asks her to do so little content she constantly gets bored and tends to just do redo current stuff - ever noticed how the marketplace and various houses got redesigned like 50 times now? lol..)

Or artists that create monsters/textures/sound effects.. Also would not be involved. (Epics never get new models/textures, but its good to focus on new stuff instead as you say)

Epic is just change an upgrade of stats, increase in spawns, change in items.. Most of it gets done by programmers who couldn't design content if their life depending on it ;p

So while yes designing an epic is a lot of work..
No it's not a lot work taken away from new content.

What would potentially slow down is new systems like PrEs, bug fixes (lol), redesign or other epic gear like genasi is doing.. But far as artists/content/dungeon designers work goes, epic'ing a dungeon generally requires zero work from those devs, thus why its a great system that can be done in conjunction with new content.

Remember every time a major pack got epic'd - new content came out along side it. It's not like this isn't possible to release new high quality content + plus epic old content. It's pretty much the old standard. I wish it never stopped.

jojje_b
07-09-2011, 04:36 PM
i like the idea, some of the items felt unbalaced or strange but overall i would live this

/signed

Shade
07-09-2011, 04:40 PM
I don't dislike you Shade. I dislike the idea that a battle cleric can't put on those armors because his strength isn't high enough.

I just feel that Gear should not be pigeon holed for people with certain ability scores. *shrug*

Well thats clearly not the case.. The armor best suited to battle clerics is 10,000 poinds (well the tankish armor, I think the darkleaf may be desire too, andi ts just normal weight - 20 pounds or whatevs).. You'd need about a 36 str to easily carry that.. We could drop it down to like 5000 i guess if your battle clr only has 30 str. Whats his str?

Tobril
07-09-2011, 04:42 PM
I agree in a way, but if you really think hard about how development works, you'd realise there is not too much overlap in these areas.

People who design dungeons for example - EG: Keeper, would have zero involvment in this project. So she could continue to work on new dungeons (tho I think turbine asks her to do so little content she constantly gets bored and tends to just do redo current stuff - ever noticed how the marketplace and various houses got redesigned like 50 times now? lol..)

Or artists that create monsters/textures/sound effects.. Also would not be involved. (Epics never get new models/textures, but its good to focus on new stuff instead as you say)

Epic is just change an upgrade of stats, increase in spawns, change in items.. Most of it gets done by programmers who couldn't design content if their life depending on it ;p

So while yes designing an epic is a lot of work..
No it's not a lot work taken away from new content.

What would potentially slow down is new systems like PrEs, bug fixes (lol), redesign or other epic gear like genasi is doing.. But far as artists/content/dungeon designers work goes, epic'ing a dungeon generally requires zero work from those devs, thus why its a great system that can be done in conjunction with new content.

Remember every time a major pack got epic'd - new content came out along side it. It's not like this isn't possible to release new high quality content + plus epic old content. It's pretty much the old standard. I wish it never stopped.


My post had less to do with development and more to do with
not wanting to re-hash old content.

Let it live in the same place as G.I JOE, Transformers, and all the
other things that were fun in the day but I wouldn’t look at today.

Tobril
07-09-2011, 04:51 PM
I agree in a way, but if you really think hard about how development works, you'd realise there is not too much overlap in these areas.


As an actual programmer I think you should read a little more
Mcconnell and Spolsky before making guesses at how software
development actually works.

Nahual
07-09-2011, 05:02 PM
Pfttttt!!!! Tab makes Tempest Spine epic every time!!!

Shade
07-09-2011, 05:32 PM
My post had less to do with development and more to do with
not wanting to re-hash old content.

Let it live in the same place as G.I JOE, Transformers, and all the
other things that were fun in the day but I wouldn’t look at today.

Hey the new transformers movies are pretty successful. New GI Joe was decent

Shade
07-09-2011, 05:34 PM
As an actual programmer I think you should read a little more
Mcconnell and Spolsky before making guesses at how software
development actually works.

Not a guess.

Keeper and other world builders have literal redesigned the marketplace 24 times. Known fact.
Shes that bored without new stuff to do.

And it's not hard to claim to be a programmer, its a pretty vague general term. Exactly what yours skillset is, and what your actual job is may vary, but my point was quite accurate in that not everyone works on the same things. DDOs devs have referenced this themselves in various threads like this over the years.

Tobril
07-09-2011, 05:34 PM
Hey the new transformers movies are pretty successful. New GI Joe was decent

The new transformers movie was perfect.

GI Joe was an excellent ninja movie with some annoying other stuff thrown in.


I tried watching the old stuff not too long ago but couldn’t take more than 30 seconds of either.

toughguyjoe
07-09-2011, 05:38 PM
Well thats clearly not the case.. The armor best suited to battle clerics is 10,000 poinds (well the tankish armor, I think the darkleaf may be desire too, andi ts just normal weight - 20 pounds or whatevs).. You'd need about a 36 str to easily carry that.. We could drop it down to like 5000 i guess if your battle clr only has 30 str. Whats his str?

That's the thing. I don't have one. ;)

I just used that as an example. I know new players aren't a good example, since not all of them make it epic, but recently I've seen more and more people with little experience trying to do Epics.

When these people finally tough it out, their builds that aren't optimal shouldn't be excluded from gear because it takes up too much of their weight :(

Also, one thing I was thinking was...would it be wrong to update with a Docent version of one of those armors?

Tobril
07-09-2011, 05:48 PM
And it's not hard to claim to be a programmer, its a pretty vague general term.


Things I’ve done for the last several years of getting paid to develop…

Windows Mobile apps
ASP.NET
Various desktop apps (more .NET)

Oracle PL/SQL Stored Procedures
Various SQL Server setup, maintenance, db design, etc
DBA for 60+ SQL Server instances

Wrote a few windows services
Scripting work in multiple languages (filling in for lazy/absent sysadmins)

Introduced new tech to the office: Subversion, JQuery, and a small army of other third party add-ons for our existing tools

Minor image work
A pinch of Java, as well as some LAMP stack stuff

Shade
07-09-2011, 05:51 PM
When these people finally tough it out, their builds that aren't optimal shouldn't be excluded from gear because it takes up too much of their weight :(


I doubt that will ever be the case.

Newbies trying to run epics don't get upset because they can't use the gear they craft.

They never craft the gear in the first place.

By the time you put in the huge amount of effort it actually takes to a craft an epic, you are far beyond the point of being a newb and will have the stats neccesary.

So making up scenarios that can never happen is a bit silly.

An epic raid is actaully the most forgiving and most inviting to a new player to epics, because generally 1 player out of 12 not contributing much won't have as bad an impact as 1 player of 6. So while this raid should be very challenging, I don't think it should be out of the realm of possibility to drag along 1-3 newbies for the ride, no more then any other raid for sure... As it has no real skilled based mechanics that really require experience like abbot, its mainly a stat based challenge where perserverance and dedication should get you to the end, if not always result in a win =)


Also, one thing I was thinking was...would it be wrong to update with a Docent version of one of those armors?
No.. More loot is always good, and warforged are definetely still popular in epics.
But every new epic you add dilutes your chances of building another.. so by increasing hte number of items in the pack, you make it harder to the craft the others. So if it was up to me, i'd add 1 docent at the most, rather then 1 for every form of armor currently in there.
If there was to be more, would probably need to at least make the seals chest-specific, so the randomization doesn't get too bad (like desert)

Havok.cry
07-10-2011, 03:46 AM
Actually I think any docent you added should be unique rather than just a copy of some other armor. This is one of the things I like about many docents, is that they are very different from the armors in the same pack, for example, docent of defiance, docent of grace, and titan docent to name a few. How about a docent that has DR that stacks with a warforges racial DR, 10% healing amp, procs repair lights on hits, and has the epic telekinetic effect as a guard?

azrael4h
07-10-2011, 08:46 AM
Actually I think any docent you added should be unique rather than just a copy of some other armor. This is one of the things I like about many docents, is that they are very different from the armors in the same pack, for example, docent of defiance, docent of grace, and titan docent to name a few. How about a docent that has DR that stacks with a warforges racial DR, 10% healing amp, procs repair lights on hits, and has the epic telekinetic effect as a guard?

That docent would make every WF FvS cry oily tears of joy.

dickens
07-10-2011, 01:39 PM
This is beautiful *sniff* *sniff* IM GONNA CRY UNLESS A DDO DEV GETS THEIR LAZY BUTT OVER TO THIS FORUM NOW!!!

Pwesiela
07-10-2011, 03:10 PM
This is beautiful *sniff* *sniff* IM GONNA CRY UNLESS A DDO DEV GETS THEIR LAZY BUTT OVER TO THIS FORUM NOW!!!

It's Sunday. You're just gonna have to wait until tomorrow.

Need a hankie?

Saaluta
07-10-2011, 03:38 PM
/signed for epic tempest spine :)

Saal :)

Riksha
07-10-2011, 03:46 PM
and yes i was just saying to someone how this would be an awsome hack and slash epic raid.
the part you could put in is they all cast dw on themselves(dispellable) so no easy scroll farming!!!!!

Elaril
07-10-2011, 04:03 PM
/yes to epic TS

/no to mobs with overinflated hps and blanket immunities

The OP's idea sounds pretty decent for a first run, but a nightmare in terms of time spent in one quest to grind. I think the maximum amount of time you should have to spend in a quest that you are familiar with and prepared for should be 45 minutes. The average pug completion time for the OPs implementation of TS would be over an hour, probably closer to two.

I'm all for higher difficulty quests just not artificially lengthy ones. Hopefully the devs can do this and keep the blanket immunities and mob hitpoints within a reasonable range.

Oh, and no to gear that weighs a ridiculously high amount, that's just silly.

Arlith
07-10-2011, 04:07 PM
Epic Tempest's Spine

Intro:

TL: DR

I dunno about all that stuff you typed, but ETS would rock.

Get 'r done!

Templarion
07-10-2011, 04:21 PM
I think this would be also the first f2p epic.

toughguyjoe
07-10-2011, 05:36 PM
I doubt that will ever be the case.

Newbies trying to run epics don't get upset because they can't use the gear they craft.

They never craft the gear in the first place.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. As you noted...New players are dragged through Epics sometimes. On Argo where I play it seems to happen with a fair amount of frequency.

Not that difficult to tag along multiple times and get lucky.




No.. More loot is always good, and warforged are definetely still popular in epics.
But every new epic you add dilutes your chances of building another.. so by increasing hte number of items in the pack, you make it harder to the craft the others. So if it was up to me, i'd add 1 docent at the most, rather then 1 for every form of armor currently in there.
If there was to be more, would probably need to at least make the seals chest-specific, so the randomization doesn't get too bad (like desert)

Totally agreed. Diluting the Table would be far from worth it. I think though that one would be sufficient. Gleaming Adamantine would be my pick of course.

Shade
07-13-2011, 04:55 PM
The new transformers movie was perfect.

Ya just saw it last night. Pretty good.
Old stuff can be fun again.

Diyon
07-13-2011, 05:30 PM
(haven't read all the responses)

Surprisingly for me..../signed.


What you outlined looks challenging without being ridiculously so.

The loot you outlined looks strong but balanced. My only concerns are maybe on the power level of the robes of arcane power, and robe of potency. (They may be fine, they just seem like they are a large jump from existing gear)

"Broken Ancient Wand
Description:
This is a broken wand of unique design. Perhaps a relic of a long lost civilization? You feel as if this wand may actually still work even though it is broken..
As a trick it actually appears to work tho,as it lists the stoneskin spell and 5 charges
Upon using it in a party member however, it hits them with ottos resistable dance (DC30) =)"


That^ makes me happy. Semi-reliable way to dance people for hilarious results? /signed x100

sirgog
07-13-2011, 08:12 PM
An epic raid is actaully the most forgiving and most inviting to a new player to epics, because generally 1 player out of 12 not contributing much won't have as bad an impact as 1 player of 6. So while this raid should be very challenging, I don't think it should be out of the realm of possibility to drag along 1-3 newbies for the ride, no more then any other raid for sure... As it has no real skilled based mechanics that really require experience like abbot, its mainly a stat based challenge where perserverance and dedication should get you to the end, if not always result in a win =)

No.. More loot is always good, and warforged are definetely still popular in epics.
But every new epic you add dilutes your chances of building another.. so by increasing hte number of items in the pack, you make it harder to the craft the others. So if it was up to me, i'd add 1 docent at the most, rather then 1 for every form of armor currently in there.
If there was to be more, would probably need to at least make the seals chest-specific, so the randomization doesn't get too bad (like desert)


One undergeared toon that follows instructions in an epic raid has less impact on your chances of success than in a 6 person Epic. However, in all of the epic raids we currently have, if you use the most widespread strategies, one person that doesn't listen is a really bad thing in all of them.

In VON6, one idiot can sometimes wipe a base by attacking fascinated mobs. The rare group that Fears the trash instead of Fascinating it can avert this.

In DQ2 using the ball method, one person out of the ball can cause Lailat to knock the main group over.

In Colonoscope, one person taking aggro at the wrong time in the CAD fight can cause them to turn and face the group just before they breathe fire. This won't wipe a raid, but it usually causes 5-6 deaths.


On the docent/fleshie armor idea: IMO wherever there's two basically identical armors (such as Chronoscope's Diabolist armor), I think you should be able to turn a scroll, shard or seal of one of them into the same piece of the other for a small fee (maybe 2 epic tokens). Then just have both drop in the chests



Oh and that 0.5% of current HP effect on the Epic Nightblade is pretty over the top. Turigulon is only a rednamed, not a purple, and seems to have a good 120-150k HP - that means that until he's under 50% hp, the Nightblade will do 300+ extra damage per swing. And he's not the only epic rednamed where that ability will be insane.
0.1% on rednameds would still be enough for it to be a very potent weapon.

justplayingthegame
07-13-2011, 10:18 PM
Epic Tempest's Spine

Intro:100.175 = 66.5(Weapon) + 33.675(Bonus)





snippage happens.
/signed

Shade
07-13-2011, 10:49 PM
Oh and that 0.5% of current HP effect on the Epic Nightblade is pretty over the top. Turigulon is only a rednamed, not a purple, and seems to have a good 120-150k HP - that means that until he's under 50% hp, the Nightblade will do 300+ extra damage per swing. And he's not the only epic rednamed where that ability will be insane.
0.1% on rednameds would still be enough for it to be a very potent weapon.

He doesn't have anywhere near that hp. Thats raidboss hp.

Just did a video of epic da im working on editing now.. He died in about 30 seconds, and really the only people contributing major damage to him was me, a sorc and a fvs.

I'd say he has maybe 80k hp. So 1% = 800dmg. 0.5% = 400.
Yea thats a lot, but thats what epic weapons should be doing. It's still 200 swings - your regular dps, which on him wouldnt be that good since youd probably not bypass DR.

I really like the idea of a percentage based damage. I know it can get very powerful against very strong foes like him, but thats the beauty of it. People that can craft such powerful epic weapons aren't the kind to have trouble with turigulon anyways.

10% too low. Could go 25% effective on red named instead, thats 200 dmg on him, and minimal on most red named.

I mean my average damage per swing is up there around 400 these days anyways, so 200 isn't much on a weapon thats otherwise not too great vs a mega high hp epic boss. Better for those with lower average damages, which makes it nice.

I think you put too much emphasis on him anyways, hes really a joke of an end boss anyways (compared ot the overall challenge of the quest). Epic devils assault itself can be s a tough quest, but not because of its boses. I've seen it fail at several points ,but never a boss. It's the big waves of orthons, or fire elementals that really get people. He just lacks too many key things that make pit fiends tough (summoned support, dispels, holds, etc)

insaneuou
07-13-2011, 11:03 PM
Nice post, Nice idea.

Fire and Ice would be tricky!

wiglin
07-13-2011, 11:17 PM
I like the raid idea, but even though the loot looks decent its not good enough for how hard the raid would be (with exception of the robes, but I don't have a non warforged caster), and none of it would replace my current gear selection.

The weapons are so close to an esos in best case scenario, I would just stick to using the esos. We have so much stuff to carry these day, no reason to carry weapons that are just a little better when all the stars are aligned.

Some suggestions: If this gear is to reflect being in the hardest raid in the game, I would boost some of it a little more.

*Goggles of Perception: Add +2Exc Dex and change the reflex save to +3Epic.
*Imbued Dark Leaf Banded Armor: Add Superior False Life, Colorless slot, and 10% Healing Amp
*Gleaming Adamantine Plate: Change the 10% Healing Amp to 25%
*FullPlate of Giants: Add Superior False Life
*Cloak of Invisibility: Add Blur and change Protection to +6.

If the loot was implemented as suggested in the OP, this would just be a token run for me.

sirgog
07-13-2011, 11:26 PM
He doesn't have anywhere near that hp. Thats raidboss hp.

Just did a video of epic da im working on editing now.. He died in about 30 seconds, and really the only people contributing major damage to him was me, a sorc and a fvs.

I'd say he has maybe 80k hp. So 1% = 800dmg. 0.5% = 400.
Yea thats a lot, but thats what epic weapons should be doing. It's still 200 swings - your regular dps, which on him wouldnt be that good since youd probably not bypass DR.

I really like the idea of a percentage based damage. I know it can get very powerful against very strong foes like him, but thats the beauty of it. People that can craft such powerful epic weapons aren't the kind to have trouble with turigulon anyways.

10% too low. Could go 25% effective on red named instead, thats 200 dmg on him, and minimal on most red named.

I mean my average damage per swing is up there around 400 these days anyways, so 200 isn't much on a weapon thats otherwise not too great vs a mega high hp epic boss. Better for those with lower average damages, which makes it nice.

I think you put too much emphasis on him anyways, hes really a joke of an end boss anyways (compared ot the overall challenge of the quest). Epic devils assault itself can be s a tough quest, but not because of its boses. I've seen it fail at several points ,but never a boss. It's the big waves of orthons, or fire elementals that really get people. He just lacks too many key things that make pit fiends tough (summoned support, dispels, holds, etc)

Malicia is a quest boss too, and she's been tested to have about 95k HP. While she lasts longer than Big T, that's because I take a lower calibre of players into Big Top (unless I'm on my monk, I take the first five to hit the LFM regardless of class). In guild runs, Turigulon lasts longer than Malicia ever does, and unlike Malicia, he hits too hard to heal the group with just scrolls, you need to use SP.

I've never wiped on Turigulon, but I have had to use multiple mana potions to brute force him in groups that were otherwise solid. He certainly puts up a lot more of a fight than the pathetic Fire Elementals in there do.

Maybe I do overestimate his HP a bit, but even if you are right and he's 80k HP, 0.25% of that is 200 damage per swing. Who cares about 30 DR then? For comparison, Lightning Strike - generally considered one of the best DPS modifiers in the game - adds 12 damage per swing. The eClaw set adds 6.1 to an SOS/eSOS/eXuum wielder.

doubledge
07-14-2011, 12:11 AM
hey shade, here's an idea to make epic sor'jek more hard, but not using damage, or hp.

Have him use this ability.



Energy swap

The target's life force has been swapped, and is treated as the opposite life force until this spell targets again. (pale masters are treated as living, living targets are treated as undead) This spell hits the person with sor'jek's agro, and recieve damage to what healed them before. (forges take damage from repair and heals, fleshies take damage from heal, undead take damage from negative energy) however, they now heal from what hurt them before (forges heal from negative, fleshies heal from negative and half repair, undead are healed by positive)



would make it so that one healer heals the party with masses, while the other one checks the tank for the debuff.

Kale_Hagan
07-14-2011, 11:45 AM
I know you have your rep disabled, but I just want you to know I friggin' love reading these suggestions.

If the devs aren't reading these and thinking about the possibilities, THEY SHOULD BE.

I nominate Shade for Head of Great Ideas at Turbine.

Shade
07-14-2011, 11:48 AM
and unlike Malicia, he hits too hard to heal the group with just scrolls, you need to use SP.

speak for yourself. And try to find better tanks.

He doesn't even have true seeing, so displace the tank and his damage output is a joke. Anyone can easily heal me with just heal scrolls tanking him. Or I can self heal.

And he's a single target kinda guy as long as ppl flank, so aside from the odd meteor swarm, not much else healing is needed. If others do get hurt, they can easily back off and drink pots.

Infact I generally request that no one displaces me, because his damage output is so little that im at no risk, and he dies faster from the favored soul procs going off. (Well if there is a angel of vengeance in the group that is)

Now yea finding tanks like mine isn't easy, but it's not something im on the treshold of being just barely being able to do.. I can do it on all 4 of my barbs, some of which aren't that well geared. At most I'd maybe have to move a bit during any big burst to wait on a heal scroll, not that hard. I'd say you could do it with as little as 700 hp and 20% healing amp + finger necklace or shipbuff, tier2 scroll mastery.

Maclia tends to take longer in the runs I do, since she seems to have more hp, and do her invulnerability thing a few times slowering things down. Tho neither take very long.

Either way, it's meant to be powerful for ultra high hp non-purple bosses, thats the point of the effect. At 0.25%, it's 400 swings to kill him with that alone, thats a lot of swings. And given it's otherwise a regular falcion just with very high base damage that probbly won't bypass dr, it's regular dmg would be pretty poor compared to something that would like upcoming epic antique, or a hobglob.

I guess the idea is to still be pretty good versus more average red named bosses at 20-50kp..
So instead of purple named being immune, I could change it to:
Monsters with over 50,000 maximum HP are immune to this effect.

Shade
07-14-2011, 11:50 AM
I know you have your rep disabled, but I just want you to know I friggin' love reading these suggestions.

If the devs aren't reading these and thinking about the possibilities, THEY SHOULD BE.

I nominate Shade for Head of Great Ideas at Turbine.

Thanks.

btw you unfortunately can't really disable rep, just hide it atm.

Shade
07-14-2011, 11:52 AM
hey shade, here's an idea to make epic sor'jek more hard, but not using damage, or hp.

Have him use this ability.



would make it so that one healer heals the party with masses, while the other one checks the tank for the debuff.

Sounds pretty cool.
Also give sorjek energy drain hehe.. Since the healers can risk deathwarding the tank (make him immune to harm when he needs it), they'd also have to clear lots of neg lvls (on non WF tanks).

elraido
07-14-2011, 11:59 AM
Signed. It would bring me back to the old days of the game. Everyone...go get a malodrite weapon so we can knock down these guys ac!!! :D

Thrudh
07-14-2011, 12:07 PM
I really liked most of it.

Then I read a couple of the lines over again.

I smelled...Shadesauce.

No Shade, you cannot make your awesome weapons and armor so that only characters "like yours" can even put them in their pack.

I'm not sure how you could make a well thought out and good idea for Epic TS and then try to ruin it by making the toys only for certain Strength scores.

Hiding that behind "flavor" is lame and unnecessary.

Just say that you want only people who strive for the same things you do to benefit from the loot, and it would have read like it was supposed to.

Curb the item weights and I'll sign this a thousand times.

This. Interesting idea on the random trap that sends your soulstone to the boss though. I liked that idea.

Thrudh
07-14-2011, 12:13 PM
The OP's idea sounds pretty decent for a first run, but a nightmare in terms of time spent in one quest to grind. I think the maximum amount of time you should have to spend in a quest that you are familiar with and prepared for should be 45 minutes. The average pug completion time for the OPs implementation of TS would be over an hour, probably closer to two.

Yeah, any dungeon designed to make Shade take 90 minutes will be an utter failure since 98% of the community will never run it.

Face it Shade, you've won DDO. There will NEVER be a challenge for you again.

Thrudh
07-14-2011, 12:17 PM
Maybe I do overestimate his HP a bit, but even if you are right and he's 80k HP, 0.25% of that is 200 damage per swing. Who cares about 30 DR then? For comparison, Lightning Strike - generally considered one of the best DPS modifiers in the game - adds 12 damage per swing. The eClaw set adds 6.1 to an SOS/eSOS/eXuum wielder.

Yeah, adding 100, 200, 300 a SWING is just like 10x, 20x, 30x more powerful a Lightning Strike. Surely, even you Shade can see that's a bad idea...

(Proper response to this post is: "Yes, I can see that. And don't call me Shirley.")

Chai
07-14-2011, 12:21 PM
I never agree with Shade...


Except here.

I WANT EPIC TS NOW!!!!!!!

I can hear it already.

Ok kids, left on land, right in the water....

Bwahahahahahahahahaw!

Shade
07-23-2011, 05:57 AM
Signed. It would bring me back to the old days of the game. Everyone...go get a malodrite weapon so we can knock down these guys ac!!! :D

You know I thought about crafting a cool one.. But realised epic mobs are rather resistant to stat damage so figured it wouldn't be too effective. I think strength sapping might work better, as thats a fair amount of dex dmg, without any resistance (other then needing them to fail a save, which is just a matter of 20 swings)

Havok.cry
07-23-2011, 06:23 AM
You know it just occured to me that if sorjek is to be epic, it should be in all his incarnations. So shade, would you work on epic SoS too?

Shade
07-23-2011, 07:09 AM
You know it just occured to me that if sorjek is to be epic, it should be in all his incarnations. So shade, would you work on epic SoS too?

Thought about that a bit, but since it and all the other quests in the pack lack regular named loot.. It would be a massive undertaking to do it in a balanced interesting way. As far as it having worthwhile epic upgrades to the armor anyways.

As you'd really have to make a whole new set of epic runes. Or at least good subset of them to make it interesting.

Some quick thoughts tho:
Upgradng the base armor to epic:
Requires:
Base armor
20 epic tokens (replaces the scroll like with epic redscale as scrolls tend to become too costly for something everyone wants)
seal of the armor - quest specific to encourage running each one in the pack:
Plate/Docent drops in monastery
Breasplate/Pajamas drops in ETK
Leather/Robe drops in Prey
shard - only from epic chest in SoS
500 epic dragonic runes (Lots but epic draconic rune droprate is higher on epic)
(Base cost is quite high because the armor should be very rare and powerful like the red scale or marithlin chai)

Epic'ing the runes:
Fairly cheap since getting the base armor is the tough part, but still requires some trading at least:
Requires
base rune (on epic each quest can drop 2 like monastery currently does)
100 epic draconic runes (to have some BTC component)
scroll of the X (to have a non bound component so trading theses would be popular)
No shard/seal needed.

To further encourage monster kills vs what would be very hard mobs: Epic versions have a high chance to drop 1d10 epic draconic runes - in bags anyone can click, instead of epic fragments.

Scroll rate works normal (1% chance per kill) however to fix the fact that some would get exceedingly rare/expensive)
Draconic vendor gets new epic options:
Epic refuge scroll: choose from random list of 10 - 1000 epic draonic runes
Epic refuge scroll of your choice - all in list: 3000 epic draconic runes

So there are both good "luck" options for fairly fast armor, risky grind option and guarenteed grind options for the ideal armor.

A few basic une ideas:
+6 stat => +7 stat
+1 exceptional => +2 exceptional
Incineration => Greater inceneration

Tho I guess doing it the easy way would still be fun:
Just doing the quests themselves - no epic armor upgrades..
But maybe put some +4 tomes as a rare drop in Sorjeks quest. And add epic versions of the essences - so you must flag on epic to run SoS.. To at least ensure that the other 3 quests are still run. And something interested in each quest like a new ultra challenging rare named, which can drop pre-made epic weapons.
(EG: Prey on the hunter after slaying the optional rokslide, theres a chance his buddy - Deathcrushor! appears. Who has triple his hitpoints, hits twice as hard and has heavy respawning reinforcements. Killing him is again optional like rokslide, as you can just run away (hes just a slow giant).. But he has his own special chest with a very small chance at :
Epic Deathcrushors Malice:
Greatclub (Oversized giant size!)
3d10 +10
20/x2
Devastating Blow (On vorpalstirkes (natural 20+confirmation), this weapon deals damage as if it had a +3 critical multiplier and stuns the enemy for 6 seconds, other effects like bursting do not get increased as if the multiplier was actually higher)
Icy Blast (per my op)
Stunning +12
Unwieldy (-2 dex)
Red Slot
Pretty nice support weapon, with the rare (5%) chance to do devastating criticals.

twiliteslayer02
07-23-2011, 07:44 AM
Very good idea, and sound reasoning as to the needs AND the quest.

As for it being f2p or not, WHO CARES?, make em have to work for it, or like we have, GRIND for it.

Leave the mechanics to the devs, then we can gripe about em later, afterall thats what we're used to anyhow.

/signed..

eulogy098
07-23-2011, 08:12 AM
2nd, TS is f2p meaning no reason for turbine to spend development funds with no chance of returns.



This.



There is absolutely no chance of epic tempest spine. ever. there's no profit in it so it simply wont ever happen. fun to think about , but there's just not even the slightest snowcones chance in hell.

WolfHealr
07-23-2011, 08:43 AM
"Broken Ancient Wand
Description:
This is a broken wand of unique design. Perhaps a relic of a long lost civilization? You feel as if this wand may actually still work even though it is broken..
As a trick it actually appears to work tho,as it lists the stoneskin spell and 5 charges
Upon using it in a party member however, it hits them with ottos resistable dance (DC30) =)"


That^ makes me happy. Semi-reliable way to dance people for hilarious results? /signed x100

Semi-reliable way to get banned for griefing, too...

Love the OP, except for the above and some of the outlandish weights... Giants are strong, but not THAT strong :P

Havok.cry
07-23-2011, 09:05 AM
I was thinking (ow) that they could throw epic TS in with epic SoS pack. I liked what you wrote about epic SoS, but I would like to see an epic toothpick hehe. Would you add anything special to encourage the dragon fight on epic prey on the hunter?

Shade
07-23-2011, 10:15 AM
This.



There is absolutely no chance of epic tempest spine. ever. there's no profit in it so it simply wont ever happen. fun to think about , but there's just not even the slightest snowcones chance in hell.

very poor attitude. Lots of ways around that, which have already been posted in the thread. So read up, and think more positive. I think given the popularity of this thread and large intrest in epic on live lately that this is a very real possibility.

~SyZoRe
07-23-2011, 11:09 AM
/signed

I love this idea.
Epic TS definitely sounds EPIC!
Besides, i think its about time to get another weapons in the level of eSoS. really.

Aelonwy
07-23-2011, 12:17 PM
I haven't /signed a Shade thread in a long while... but *shrugs* /signed its full of some great ideas. Needs tweaked and balanced but still great ideas. 5,000 lb armor I can accept, that 50lbs (the weight of usual hvy plate) x100. A docent would be a good addition, some of the weapons seem a little overpowered but like I said some balancing needed. There is a solution to the dev+$ argument but ppl aren't going to like it... that is to make the Epic version accessible on VIP and otherwise a pack (that consists only of the epic difficulty) purchasable.

I would argue that there is some new artwork needed ...that is Epic versions of the armors/robes/new docent would need an improved appearance. I'm already annoyed that when I equip the Gleaming Plate despite its description it doesn't gleam, doesn't shine, not even a glitter... dull as dust encrusted clay. What's up with that?!

doubledge
07-23-2011, 03:34 PM
I was thinking (ow) that they could throw epic TS in with epic SoS pack. I liked what you wrote about epic SoS, but I would like to see an epic toothpick hehe. Would you add anything special to encourage the dragon fight on epic prey on the hunter?

this is a great idea. not enough reason as is to take that pack, besides the armor. /signed

Shade
07-23-2011, 11:42 PM
I would argue that there is some new artwork needed ...that is Epic versions of the armors/robes/new docent would need an improved appearance. I'm already annoyed that when I equip the Gleaming Plate despite its description it doesn't gleam, doesn't shine, not even a glitter... dull as dust encrusted clay. What's up with that?!

I'd put it on the "Would be nice"

But not "need" list.

Considering every single other epic in the game currently does not change appearance.

I'd suggest doing it with taking the artists off new content tho:
Just replace the models with existing - but very rarely used models. Armors could get some appearans from the rarely bought armor kits.
Weapons could use some of the tome page weapons, or other very rare necro weapons almost no one ever seens (a lot of them look very cool) - actauly i'd like to see epic maelstrom use the ULTRA RARE "destructive greataxe" model. I only ever see ntaht model weilded once ever, since its a weak upgraded BTC weapon - but it looks very impressive.

sirgog
07-24-2011, 12:54 AM
zero chance of epic TS.
1st of all its been posted that no epic development will occur till 2012 at the earliest.
2nd, TS is f2p meaning no reason for turbine to spend development funds with no chance of returns.

at least you gave up on calling for gh epic though.... ;)

1st, the Devs also had, at times, said that there was no chance of ever removing VON6 reflagging, or requiring Chains/OOB/Wiz-king every time you ran ADQ2 - hopefully, they can see sense and bring back epics. We've had no endgame content since eChrono.

2nd, Epics and ToD are probably the two biggest reasons people LR/GR, as they are the first content players encounter that are quite punishing for mediocre builds. (Shroud is the first content that punishes terrible builds). Reincarnation is pure profit for Turbine. And there's other store stuff that sells for Epics too. Ever seen a group use a store raise cake because Epic Raiyum is standing at 5% looking at six soulstones? Or someone use a store SP pot because they are OOM and Turigulon is at 15%? Lots of ways they make money out of epics, even if only a minority pay.

Rian
07-24-2011, 02:53 AM
Don't know about you, but TS was the first raid I ever ran that some 5 or 6 years ago.
The challenge made for a humorous, challenging, and entertaining run everytime.
Many people ran with iconic players, for example: Xorians ran with Taank.
I would love to relive those moments of silliness and challenge.
It would also show that Turbine still cares about the veterans who loved those days, just saying. :p;)

Epic harbor quests please? :D




"Haaaaaaste! I kill everytinnnnng!" - Chuck Norris...errr I mean Taank.

goodoldxelos
07-24-2011, 04:12 PM
id rather see epic gianthold long before this and the epic items seem overpowered...

FranOhmsford
07-24-2011, 05:16 PM
There are plenty of f2p quests that would make great epics but if only one was to be made available Tempest Spine would be my first choice.

/Signed

Would also like to see Epic Delera's and Threnal.

doubledge
07-26-2011, 11:06 AM
once again, this idead NEEDS to be implemented

(that, and free bump)

Dagolar
07-26-2011, 11:10 AM
I counter your proposal with Epic Misery's Peak. Which is what we've TRULY all been wanting.

Jarlaxis
07-26-2011, 12:05 PM
lower the weights of the armors.
add large size -str modifier.

/Signed

stoopid_cowboy
07-26-2011, 03:36 PM
There are plenty of f2p quests that would make great epics but if only one was to be made available Tempest Spine would be my first choice.

/Signed

Would also like to see Epic Delera's and Threnal.

^^ This ^^

Well, maybe not Threnal... I could just imagine EPIC Coyle with 0 fort and 20 hp's. :D

/signed
I said a loooong time ago EPIC TS would be awesome! I would also love EPIC Delera's.
Baby steps.... TS first...

yuda :D

Aelonwy
07-27-2011, 09:42 AM
I'd put it on the "Would be nice"

But not "need" list.

Considering every single other epic in the game currently does not change appearance.

I'd suggest doing it with taking the artists off new content tho:
Just replace the models with existing - but very rarely used models. Armors could get some appearans from the rarely bought armor kits.
Weapons could use some of the tome page weapons, or other very rare necro weapons almost no one ever seens (a lot of them look very cool) - actauly i'd like to see epic maelstrom use the ULTRA RARE "destructive greataxe" model. I only ever see ntaht model weilded once ever, since its a weak upgraded BTC weapon - but it looks very impressive.

I would be satisified with this solution. Its still irritating that they went to the effort of making a unique description for so many armors and then what? couldn't follow through to make the artwork resemble the description at all? Its just disappointing that so many named items in this game are boring/dull/uninspiring to look upon. Part of the satisifaction of getting a named or epic armor/weapon/shield should be had from equipping it and seeing something awesome on your character.

PCSwarrior
07-27-2011, 12:45 PM
Not until I get my Epic "Seek Dryden's Council".

aarant
08-02-2011, 04:18 PM
/signed id love this

HarveyMilk
08-02-2011, 04:22 PM
Epic Cannith Crystal pls

FranOhmsford
08-04-2011, 04:35 PM
^^ This ^^

Well, maybe not Threnal... I could just imagine EPIC Coyle with 0 fort and 20 hp's. :D

/signed
I said a loooong time ago EPIC TS would be awesome! I would also love EPIC Delera's.
Baby steps.... TS first...

yuda :D

If I remember correctly Coyle gives no loot - Pretty certain that part would get done on casual by most groups.

Epic Voice would surely be no use without Epic Mantle anyway?

vonte1914
08-05-2011, 05:25 AM
/Sign Id deffinately sign off on this, it would be pretty awesome to see some old yet new epic content. Nice ideas by the way as well.

curboUS
08-05-2011, 05:54 AM
zero chance of epic TS.
1st of all its been posted that no epic development will occur till 2012 at the earliest.
2nd, TS is f2p meaning no reason for turbine to spend development funds with no chance of returns.


It may serve as a door into epics for a lot of f2p people, as a first taste so to speak.
I think it would result in more f2p going p2p (buying or subcribing).

Imo there should be at least a 3-4 f2p epics, 1 f2p raid and that the epic loot should be on par with Cove.