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View Full Version : Please change the Necro 4 Flagging Mechanics



grodon9999
07-05-2011, 10:03 AM
Having to grind for Sigil pieces is just plain ********. This isn't end-game, hasn't been for years, having to repeatedly run easy quests for this flagging is beyond stupid.

yes the XP is good but there is SO MUCH XP in this level-range now.

Either have a sigil last all of a toon's lives, like boots of anchoring, or give the pieces a 100% drop-rate.

WhiskeyWarrior
07-05-2011, 10:11 AM
Hold on a second .... I thought it did last? I had planned to bust my almost-complete sigil out of my TR bank when I got around to getting the last piece, you mean I have to do it all over again? :\

rytiux
07-05-2011, 10:14 AM
yes to open litany of the dead it eats 1 of each of the eight sigil parts

somenewnoob
07-05-2011, 10:19 AM
Wait......so every time you want to do the raid you have to collect the pieces again? All of them?....that's freaking ********! I was just getting to the point when I was going to start doing those quests......now.....not so sure!

Really?

FlyingTurtle
07-05-2011, 10:20 AM
Wait......so every time you want to do the raid you have to collect the pieces again? All of them?....that's freaking ********! I was just getting to the point when I was going to start doing those quests......now.....not so sure!

Really?

Once per life, not once per completion.

Bufo_Alvarius
07-05-2011, 10:21 AM
Other raids have been changed over the years, this one is long overdue.

/signed

Gkar
07-05-2011, 10:21 AM
Wait......so every time you want to do the raid you have to collect the pieces again? All of them?....that's freaking ********! I was just getting to the point when I was going to start doing those quests......now.....not so sure!

Really?

No, you have to do it once per life.

Once flagged you are flagged until you TR

The problem with this mechanic is the 4 random peices. I wish they would just have stuck with 8 static peices, and 1 of 2 falling for each each time you run a quest. Odds are that means a n/h/e run through would pretty much guarentee you that you were flagged.

somenewnoob
07-05-2011, 10:21 AM
Once per life, not once per completion.

Phew. Ok!

ulticleo
07-05-2011, 10:30 AM
Hold on a second .... I thought it did last? I had planned to bust my almost-complete sigil out of my TR bank when I got around to getting the last piece, you mean I have to do it all over again? :\

to clear things up:
you turn in one of each sigil piece (placed in the sigil piece holder) to open littany of the dead. you then do littany 4 times killing a different optional boss each time. Now you are flagged for Abbot, and can do the raid once every 2 days and 18 hours with no further pre-raid/flagging required.

If you have any left over pieces when you true reincarnate, you can use them in your next life. I am not 100% sure, but I do believe you have to run each of the 4 flagging quests at least once as well.

Not a huge issue for me, as I like those quests, and run each a few times for xp on my TRs regardless of sigil pieces. However, it is rather painful to flag, compared to most raids (except ToD boots, possibly, but those are not strictly required, especially on non-melee toons). And turbine HAS shown willingness to reduce grind required to flag for non end game raids (see von, titan, DQ flag once changes, and GH reduced relic requirement)

A simple change is to do away with the sigil pieces, and just make the requirement of running each quest once to open litany.

Kamo
07-05-2011, 10:30 AM
/signed


Make it like TOD flagging on a TR, keep the item, but reflag by running all the quests again.

Milfeulle
07-05-2011, 10:33 AM
/signed, make it like Titan raid, so each life you only have to do 4 opt boss after showing the sigil. Then again, if you TR more than 1 time, you're gonna farm more than 6 times each quest cept Inferno.

grgurius
07-05-2011, 10:34 AM
/signed

Just scrap the sigil entirely, run each quest once and you are flaged.

dkyle
07-05-2011, 10:35 AM
/signed

The Devs had the right idea with reducing the relic requirements for Reaver's. Not consuming the sigil sounds like a reasonable way to go (it would be nice, but not completely necessary, if we had some way to get a complete sigil back if we're already flagged for Litany when the change happens). Or better yet, get rid of it. Add in a "run each flagging quest once" requirement if there isn't already one.

Running a chain once to flag is fine, even if it isn't end-game. Forcing multiple runs should only be done for the absolute pinnacle end-game content. Even though Reavers still does require more than one run through, or at least rare farming, there are quick runs available for each relic; you're basically guaranteed to have your relics by the time you do the sensible XP runs. Unlike Litany, which can require multiple runs of that long, irritating Inferno.

I certainly hope once ToD is no longer the highest level Raid (epics aside), the boots will be massively easier to get. Yeah, not technically a flagging requirement, but for many characters, basically the same as one.

dingal
07-05-2011, 10:39 AM
/signed

Horrible flagging mechanic.

grodon9999
07-05-2011, 10:40 AM
See . . . I like the boots of anchoring grind because running the Amrath quests multiple times puts hair on your balls. If you can't hack it enough to get your boot pieces you're not ready for ToD or Epics. The boot pieces are also trade-able.

Necro 4 . . . 1 and done flagging like the other three necros would be fine.

GotSomeQuestions
07-05-2011, 10:44 AM
flagging like the other three necros would be fine.
Please no. The other three necros have some of the worst flagging mechanics in the game, especially Necro I and II. Necro III's lockout isn't ideal either, people are often used to re-taking quests they hand in, to save time, but that locks you out of Cursed Crypt even if you've completed all the prequests once.

But I do agree that a change to the flagging mechanics is warranted.

mws2970
07-05-2011, 10:45 AM
/signed and agreed

A change is needed here, devs!

dkyle
07-05-2011, 10:46 AM
See . . . I like the boots of anchoring grind because running the Amrath quests multiple times puts hair on your balls. If you can't hack it enough to get your boot pieces you're not ready for ToD or Epics. The boot pieces are also trade-able.

I'm fine with it now. It's the highest level Raid.

But in 2 years when it's what, say, VoD is now (hopefully), that grind would be intolerable.


Necro 4 . . . 1 and done flagging like the other three necros would be fine.

Be careful what you wish for there!

If it were like other necros, you'd need to run the flagging quests for each Litany run. Barring a certain borderline exploit, of course. But even that's a hassle for XP farming it. I like my 7 minute solo runs TYVM.

stonysativa
07-05-2011, 11:03 AM
Necro flagging is fine. If you dont want to dedicate yourself to the process, then you dont deserve the rewards.

Cyr
07-05-2011, 11:06 AM
/signed

If it's not end game anymore having high flagging reqs are silly.

Eladiun
07-05-2011, 11:08 AM
/not signed

I have no issue with the flagging mechanics for Litany as they are.

Sarisa
07-05-2011, 11:08 AM
When it takes 3 weeks of ransacking Inferno for the piece that only drops there, with a full group, just to FLAG for a pre-raid, there is a problem. I can understand bad luck, but it's way too often that someone can't get their last piece for 1, 2, or even more weeks at a time.

When you're encouraged to zerg the quests on normal rather than higher difficulties, since there is no change in drop rates between difficulties, that's even worse.

Chai
07-05-2011, 11:17 AM
Make the sigil pieces able to be traded, just like boot ingredients. The fact that the items need to be collected isnt the issue, its having to run the same quest until the item drops thats the issue. Boot ingredients and giant relics are already at this point, and dragon gems drop at a high enough rate even though they are BTC.

insaneuou
07-05-2011, 11:19 AM
on my first life grinding these quests were pain, but on my tr's i owned the quests(learned em). now i have sigil set for like 3-4 lives!

good xp and easy grinding!

slimkj
07-05-2011, 01:32 PM
I'd buy that for a dollar!

grodon9999
07-07-2011, 08:37 AM
So we started last night's Necro 4 Elites, with some hard runs after for first time XP bonus.

My friend started the night with 7 pieces, I had zero.

Guess which one of us ended the night with a full sigil? :)

Xyfiel
07-07-2011, 08:48 AM
Put em in the explorer chests with the taps. At least the random ones. Sir Rohine even tells you this, but like the cake, it is a LIE!

Sir Rohine Stiedra has informed you that the Black Mausoleum doors are sealed. They cannot be opened without a completed magical sigil. The pieces to the sigil are in the hands of several of the Black Abbot's allies. Additionally, some are believed to be spread out amongst the inhabitants of the Orchard of the Macabre. When you have all the pieces, Sir Rohine asked you to bring them to him, and he will reforge them into a complete Sigil that will allow you access to the Black Mausoleum.

Jandric
07-07-2011, 08:50 AM
not signed. It's just not that bad folks. The hardest thing by far is filling an Abbot raid, not the flagging mechanic.

Gladiator_206
07-07-2011, 01:20 PM
/signed.

A change would be nice.

Chette
07-07-2011, 01:26 PM
I like the idea of having to collect *something* rather than just another boring complete these 4 quests and we'll let you in. Perhaps they could change the drop rate of the sigil pieces such that you will always get one in the end chest, either the one you need (50%) or one of the randoms (50%). In general I've never had a hard time flagging as long as you have a full group. Flagging with only 1-2 people can be frustrating though, it took Model and I 6 runs of inferno to get flagged, which although I enjoyed it, most others would not. Particularly since these are incredibly easy quests.

TheDjinnFor
07-07-2011, 01:30 PM
The hardest thing by far is filling an Abbot raid

Maybe because the flagging mechanic sucks. I sure as heck don't bother flagging for it unless I desperately need some specific item.

morticianjohn
07-07-2011, 01:54 PM
not signed. It's just not that bad folks. The hardest thing by far is filling an Abbot raid, not the flagging mechanic.

You don't think the two go hand in hand do you?

Ascension chamber is the only quest in the game I haven't run. None of my RL friends have run the quest either (6 of which play the game). I outleveled those flagging quests with 3 toons. Imagine yourself at lvl 20 thinking "I should go flag for abbot". There was absolutely no motivation for me.

As others have mentioned it would be a different story if this was "end game" or if there was no other way to get XP at those levels so everyone ran those quests anyway for experience but this is not that situation and this flagging mechanism should be adjusted to reflect that

/signed

Sarisa
07-07-2011, 02:03 PM
not signed. It's just not that bad folks. The hardest thing by far is filling an Abbot raid, not the flagging mechanic.

Tell that to the person that has to run each quest to ransack in a FULL group all willing to give their sigil pieces to that one person; and still not be able to complete it.

Then go back next week and do the same bloody thing in the quests giving the piece(s) you haven't found yet.

This happens FAR too often for the Litany flagging to be a "worthwhile end-game grind" anymore.

voodoogroves
07-07-2011, 03:54 PM
My (small) guild has a series of folks we've TR'd at the same time and have been leveling as a kinda-static group. We pug out the other spots, etc. but we just roll on through.

We'd planned on milking the Orchard quests for XP. Two of us got your sigil's done moderately quickly. We ran Vol, Ghosts and Fleshmakers until we'd reached the "extreme repetition" mark and Inferno some handful of times as well. The third dude still didn't have a completed sigil.

He ended up running Vol a few extra times to help someone else out and EVENTUALLY someone else pulled the freaking right pincer and passed it to him.


Huge change not required; but if you run three of the four quests to the extreme repetition XP-limited point I'd hope the mechanics would let you flag.

sweez
07-07-2011, 04:02 PM
/signed

Right now, it's a pointless grind. Sure, the xp/min of Orchard quests remedies the pain somewhat, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a pointless grind.

LightInDark
07-07-2011, 04:26 PM
/signed

I have never flagged for Abbot because of this. Running quests over and over to flag is not fun. Usually I get most of the sigil then lose interest and go run something else.

soulaeon
07-08-2011, 07:41 AM
Not signed.

This is probably the easiest and least frustrating flaggign process I have yet. We only need to do each step ONCE, then we can go into the raid as many times as we like per timer. Easier still, we get to keep the extra sigils to use in a next life.
If you're going to petition a flagging process, why not make it Demon Queen or Stealer of Souls.

To those of you that agree, what do you suggest they do to make the game easier for you?

grodon9999
07-08-2011, 07:50 AM
Not signed.

This is probably the easiest and least frustrating flaggign process I have yet. We only need to do each step ONCE, then we can go into the raid as many times as we like per timer. Easier still, we get to keep the extra sigils to use in a next life.
If you're going to petition a flagging process, why not make it Demon Queen or Stealer of Souls.

To those of you that agree, what do you suggest they do to make the game easier for you?

Less grind does not equal easier, I'd love to know the malfunction in people's thought process that makes them think otherwise.

There is no challenge in repeatedly running easy quests for the sigil pieces.

soulaeon
07-08-2011, 08:01 AM
There is no challenge in repeatedly running easy quests for the sigil pieces.
The solution, if there were a problem, then would be to make each sigil piece a static 100% drop.
I had no problem repeating each quest, which is something most of us would do anyway if we reincarnated, so it was not problem to do that part, except Inferno of the Damned that no one likes.

sweez
07-08-2011, 08:20 AM
Not signed.

This is probably the easiest and least frustrating flaggign process I have yet

How is it easier and less frustrating than flagging for say Shroud? Or for Reaver's Fate with the 9-relic change (consider that relics are unbound and can be bought cheaply off the AH)?

samho
07-08-2011, 08:29 AM
If you have any left over pieces when you true reincarnate, you can use them in your next life. I am not 100% sure, but I do believe you have to run each of the 4 flagging quests at least once as well.



No, you just need a complete sigil to turn in in order to have Litany of the Dead acess.

I know my previous TR done just one quest (to get the last sigil he need from a 7/8 pie left from past life) and then able to enter LoTD. It might be safe to say you can even keep a complete sigil from past life and just turn it in to get LoTD access.

soulaeon
07-08-2011, 09:03 AM
How is it easier and less frustrating than flagging for say Shroud? Or for Reaver's Fate with the 9-relic change (consider that relics are unbound and can be bought cheaply off the AH)?
Shroud is just 4 quests, once. Easy.
I dont have Gianthold, so cant comment on that.
The sigil aspect could be simpler, but generally the process itself seems reasonable.

slimkj
07-08-2011, 11:52 AM
There is no challenge in repeatedly running easy quests for the sigil pieces.
Oh I don't know, it's quite hard to not tear your eyes out.

FlyingTurtle
07-08-2011, 12:05 PM
Oh I don't know, it's quite hard to not tear your eyes out.

*a lone adventurer opens a chest*

"C'mon c'mon let's be done with this.."

"Another... right pincer! Nooooooooo!"

*scatters a pile of 8 right pincers all over the dungeon floor*

Fomori
07-08-2011, 12:12 PM
I wouldnt mind seeing it so that you flag once per character life. After you flag you talk to Sir Rhone and he gives you a "completed sigil". Then you could turn that in next TR.

Another thing to do would allow us to trade in 3 pieces for another piece, like you can do with the relics.

Either and/or both would be a better step than it is now.

Palantyr
07-08-2011, 12:57 PM
Seems to me like it's time to change the mechanism, especially considering what they've done elsewher. Collecting the pieces can really go either way. I've seen the extreme sides in my tr'ing, having people with finished sigils after one run of each quest and having friends beg for help to get their last piece after multiple characters have ransacked the chest. For the most part these quests can be done in (well) under 10 minutes nowadays, they are not the challenge they once were for a sizable percentage of players and content has evolved beyond where the orchard needs to be stopping point/timesink. Personally I'd prefer the sigil just be done away with, using a shroud style flag for litany while keeping the need to defeat the 4 end bosses for raid flagging (although being able to do that on casual makes flagging potentially trivial also).