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phum
07-02-2011, 04:55 AM
Was thinking about the drow threads a few weeks back, when I got this idea on drow SR. As many noted back then, drow are "not true 32 point races" and compared to them they lack severely. IRC no mention was done on the 36 point builds for which drow have 32 allottable points and the others have 36. Imo the relative "gimpiness" of the drow remains for those builds.

So, what I would like to suggest is a following method of increasing race differentiation especially for 36 point builds. I'll go through some possibilities now. All the suggestions below are just sketches and the main suggestion is moar variance pls

Drow - Give an enhancement line for SR. For 2nd TR and up, do not give extra stat points, but continue the SR enhancement line or increase its boni.

Dwarf - More HP for the 36 point builds

WF - More dr for the 36 point builds

Elf - More to-hit (spell pen already covered) for the 36 point builds

Halfling - More enhancements for sneaking and sa for the 36 point builds

Humans - An extra feat for the 36 point builds

Half-orc - dmg and/or threat for the 36 point builds

Balancing numbers is actually very difficult and I am in no position to pull them out of my ***, but for the sake of entertainment I can do so for now:) Enhancements available e.g. at lvl 6-12-18

Drow - 3-6-9 for 32 point and stacking 5-10-15 for 2nd TR (max total 54)

Dwarf - 50-100-150 hp enhancement line for 36 point builds

WF - stacking 3-6-9/something

Elf - 3-6-9 for 36 point builds

Halfling - 4-6-8 and 2d6-4d6-6d6 for 36 point builds

Humans - An extra feat at creation for the 36 point builds

Half-orc - NaN. Maybe 2-4-6 dmg and/or 5-10-15 hate. Stacking

These numbers are straight from their origin, but maybe they give some perspective to what I am suggesting. Compared to the completionist feat some of them might be too heavy and so on.

DragonTroy
07-02-2011, 05:24 AM
very interesting ideas. some might be a tad over done, though.

drow: SR is kinda meh. its useful in some situations, other times completely useless. but thats their ability.

dwarf: 150 hp is quite a lot. even if they cost 2-4-6 ap. yeah, its just hp, but i would still think you might want to lessen that somewhat. possibly 25-50-75. gaining 75 hp through enhancement is still pretty awesome

warforged: i would suggest the DR be adamantine, since thats the general WF DR of choice

elf: why to-hit? it doesnt really go with elf. i would suggest changing this to 2-4-6, or possibly even 4-8-12 additional damage to ranged damage and/or elf weapons (longbow, scimitars, etc)

from one who plays a halfling rogue, i can tell you, that 6d6 would be quite nice. to be honest, i wouldnt be surprised if someone complained that would be over powered. but i would be happy with 6d6, or 3d6. and would give a halfling of any other dps build a nice boost.

human: hmm. i think people would complain about the extra feat. there are other aspects of human that could be added in there. and also, how would you incorperate that at creation. i think you might want to set some other enhancements that lead up to that extra feat at 18, like how all these other enhancements are being suggested(maybe an extra use of their human action boosts at 6, and 10 or 20 % extra heal amp at 12).

half-orc: i dont think half-orcs would settle for 6 damage, whether its good or not. they're muscle heads. and if they're trading the ability to read for those muscles, i think its only fair the muscles are big. 4-8-12 damage, maybe even more(maybe a stacking -1 int too, just for fun). also, about the threat, i hope that would be a separate line, or different icons, so those dunces didnt have to turn on the aggro to get that extra damage(its already an issue to hold aggro off a barb with the eSoS and eClaw set, we dont need to help that problem even more)

those are my thoughts, i think at least 10% of them make sense. hoping for 11% though

mournbladereigns
07-02-2011, 05:39 AM
These are a bit on the OP side, but something like this implemented as a 'Racial' past life would be pretty cool. WOuld make TRing a bit more desirable. passive for minor bonus, active for access to 'Paragon' enhancement lines.

/signed.

bigolbear
07-02-2011, 05:55 AM
those numbers are quite over the top to be honest, need to be careful that the gap between newbies and multi tr vets isnt pushed too far, its a delicate balance.

Now i WOULD like to see more variance from race, but i dont see why those enhancements should only be available to 36 point builds.

I think the answer lies in more and varied racial enhancements - ones that are available to all. Hopefuly we will see more of this as the racial/dragon mark prestiges come into play.

DragonTroy
07-02-2011, 08:17 AM
i suppose its just another one of those things that we could have, and we dont, and we hope gets added at some point

Vellrad
07-02-2011, 08:22 AM
Maybe some extra past life feats based on race you played in previous life.

soulaeon
07-02-2011, 09:49 AM
Half Elves need to be more distinguished, too. The choice between a Helf caster and another race of the same class is always situational rather than signiticant.

azrael4h
07-02-2011, 10:19 AM
Half Elves need to be more distinguished, too. The choice between a Helf caster and another race of the same class is always situational rather than signiticant.

You mean the paper bag over their head doesn't distinguish them enough? ;)

(two of my four "mains" are Helf, and I love the race. I hate the looks though)

Maxson
07-02-2011, 02:17 PM
I'm going to say not signed and for a very good reason.

TRs don't need any more buffs, the better double TRs get the more elitist/complacent double TR players will get to the point where being a **** player won't matter but good players playing a 32 point build will be treated like ******bags ;p