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Jiirix
06-20-2011, 06:06 AM
Hello, with the charslots on discount I can start an other bard. I have an spellsinger I like and so this one should be a bard with heavy melee focus. Any ideas how to push him further? I would like to keep the 16 levels of bard because iresistable dance is such a nice spell. But for a good improvement I could ditch 2 more, 14 is the minimum.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 320
Spell Points: 500
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 17
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 12 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 24
Concentration 5 28
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 5 26
Hide 5 7
Jump 7 16
Move Silently 6 8
Open Lock 6 16
Perform n/a 26
Tumble 3 5
Use Magic Device 5 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II

Ungood
06-20-2011, 06:29 AM
I am just wondering, why the 2 levels of fighter and not go with ranger to get the free TWF feat (and extra skill points)?

Not to mention the included: Many Shot and Bow Strength, which would make using a bow from time to time a viable thing to do.

maha0201
06-20-2011, 06:35 AM
I am just wondering, why the 2 levels of fighter and not go with ranger to get the free TWF feat (and extra skill points)?

Not to mention the included: Many Shot and Bow Strength, which would make using a bow from time to time a viable thing to do.

many shot is at 6th rgr lvl, and fighter get 2 feats for 2 lvls... so he would get 2wf and bow STR from 2 rgr, and 2wf and otwf or any combat feat from 2 ftr...

As for the build im not big fan of warchanter 2wf with rog splashes :D you need to go out of rage to do traps, i preffer 2 bbn over 2 rog. I started mine WC with 12 cha and it is too much you could easy go with 10, eaven 8 is ok if you dont mind ship buffs so you could be able to use spells :)

Jiirix
06-20-2011, 06:59 AM
many shot is at 6th rgr lvl, and fighter get 2 feats for 2 lvls... so he would get 2wf and bow STR from 2 rgr, and 2wf and otwf or any combat feat from 2 ftr...

As for the build im not big fan of warchanter 2wf with rog splashes :D you need to go out of rage to do traps, i preffer 2 bbn over 2 rog. I started mine WC with 12 cha and it is too much you could easy go with 10, eaven 8 is ok if you dont mind ship buffs so you could be able to use spells :)

The higher cha is for UMD. 21skill + 6cha + 2boost + 3 item + 6 shroud item = 38 UMD = heal scrolls.
I planned to take rogue for Evasion, locks and skillpoints mainly. Dont want to do traps. Have an other char for that. But i will have a look at those barb levels. Sure I'll find some raging bard builds here.

Edit: I can see why you perfer barb on your warchanter, with an esos I would THF too ;) But I have "only" a good collection of daxes.

maha0201
06-20-2011, 07:06 AM
The higher cha is for UMD. 21skill + 6cha + 2boost + 3 item + 6 shroud item = 38 UMD = heal scrolls.
I planned to take rogue for Evasion, locks and skillpoints mainly. Dont want to do traps. Have an other char for that. But i will have a look at those barb levels. Sure I'll find some raging barb builds here.
4 rages for 2 min are awsome :) you also get, 1 PA, sprint boost, dmg boost, 1 con enhancment

Hmm let me see on that umd 21 skils +1 luck (voice/ship) + 6 gs +4 GH ( scrolls in worst case) + 4 from cha ( starting 10 cha) = 36 +3 item ( cartouche) +2 boost = 41
or without boost and hogf / crafted trinket = 40

Jiirix
06-20-2011, 07:14 AM
4 rages for 2 min are awsome :) you also get, 1 PA, sprint boost, dmg boost, 1 con enhancment

Hmm let me see on that umd 21 skils +1 luck (voice/ship) + 6 gs +4 GH ( scrolls in worst case) + 4 from cha ( starting 10 cha) = 36 +3 item ( cartouche) +2 boost = 41
or without boost and hogf / crafted trinket = 40

I see I forgott something here (I even own 2 planar girds..) Thanks for the numbers. So if i had a +3 dex tome or start as a TR or go THF i could get my str strength to 18. Back to the planner then, but that has to wait till tomorrow.

SirAggravator
06-20-2011, 07:29 AM
As for the build im not big fan of warchanter 2wf with rog splashes :D you need to go out of rage to do traps
Small correction: you can still do traps with rage spell (but not with barb rage). However you said you don't want to do traps, but I think it's nice option to have for a small investment.

maha0201
06-20-2011, 07:32 AM
Small correction: you can still do traps with rage spell (but not with barb rage). However you said you don't want to do traps, but I think it's nice option to have for a small investment.

yeah i ment wc/bbn rage for that part, since you can go in defensive stance to undo rage / recklessness



Hmm let me see on that umd 21 skils +1 luck (voice/ship) + 6 gs +4 GH ( scrolls in worst case) + 4 from cha ( starting 10 cha) = 36 +3 item ( cartouche) +2 boost = 41
or without boost and hogf / crafted trinket = 40
I forgot focus chant :) so:
UMD = 21 + 2 ( luck) +6 ( GS ) + 1 (focus chant ) + 4 ( GH ) + 3 (cartouche) = 37
So if you start with 8 cha eat +2 tome and put +6 item youll have no fail ( with hogf/ luck 2 item)

And personaly id go max umd perform concetration then put skills in balanca / haggle :)

Bart_D
06-20-2011, 08:07 AM
I have a bard16/rogue2/fighter2, a couple comments
- i don't think you'll need OTWF for hitting; dp clickies usually do the trick nicely
- i like being able to do traps, does not seem to be a huge investment
- sometimes i wish i had taken ranger instead of fighter; bow strength, better reflex, sprint, FE+enh and skills would be nice; but fighter's str+1 and toughness enhancement are nice too... not sure what is 'best' :)
- not sure i understand about rage... the rage spell does not prevent anything and i like to be able to cast or scroll if needed so do not use madstone boots

Valindria
06-20-2011, 09:25 AM
The 16/2/2 split is pretty standard. I would say make sure you take WC II. Reckless is awesome and worth using most to all of the time depending on the quest and party.

Ungood
06-20-2011, 05:28 PM
many shot is at 6th rgr lvl, and fighter get 2 feats for 2 lvls... so he would get 2wf and bow STR from 2 rgr, and 2wf and otwf or any combat feat from 2 ftr...

Right, Manyshot is 6th, I was thinking Rapid Shot. my bad.

So you would get, Bow Strength, TWF and Rapid Shot, for the Ranger, along with the extra skill points, compared to the 2 feats you get as a fighter. (Armor and Tower Shield, are not going to be worth anything to this build)

Just saying.

Isolani
06-20-2011, 05:50 PM
I did trap skills on my 16/2/2 WC. Don't always use them but there are a few quests while leveling that are worth doing the traps for the xp bonus. VoN3 comes to mind, think it's only like 3 or 4 traps disabled for +15% xp. There are others where just 1 or 2 trap disarms gets you a bonus. As long as it is only a few traps, I like to do them just for the xp.

Chubsta
06-20-2011, 05:58 PM
I based my warchanter on Thanimal's Axesinger build. This is my first toon and still my favorite to play.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195289

Jiirix
06-21-2011, 04:33 AM
Thanks for all the input. Came up with a some Warforged-THF-Raging-Warchanter. I like the idea of an Heavy-Metal-Bard with bad attiude. http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/heavy-metal/250-1.jpg WF dont get exhausted and get better THF, that comes handy. Only drawback: To get the maximum out of the barb levels a barb paste life would be nice. Without TR I would drop some Int and skills and take cleave or FOP instead of the past life feat.

Edit: Does the barb past live still stack with the normal barb rages?


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 392
Spell Points: 495
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 9
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 26
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 18 23
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 6 6
Charisma 12 14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 22
Concentration 8 29
Haggle 5 25
Jump 7 26
Perform 5 25
Use Magic Device 5 25

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury
Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III

BoBoDaClown
06-21-2011, 05:12 AM
Right, Manyshot is 6th, I was thinking Rapid Shot. my bad.

So you would get, Bow Strength, TWF and Rapid Shot, for the Ranger, along with the extra skill points, compared to the 2 feats you get as a fighter. (Armor and Tower Shield, are not going to be worth anything to this build)

Just saying.

In other words you get twf (1 worthwhile feat) from ranger versus twf and itwf (2 worthwhile feats) from fighter.

Jiirix
06-21-2011, 06:28 AM
Ranger wasn't on my list from the start. 16 levels of bard are set, two levels of fighter too. But I am not sure yet if I will take two rogue or two barb as the third class. Rogue would be the two-axes-figthing Dwarf I posted first, because TWF and evasion both need high dex. Barb would be the dexless THF Warforged build I posted second. More STR and HP or Evasion, tricky decision.

Ungood
06-21-2011, 08:10 AM
In other words you get twf (1 worthwhile feat) from ranger versus twf and itwf (2 worthwhile feats) from fighter.

Ok, so Fighter offers 1 feat more then the ranger, as TWF would be taken no matter what.

However, the worthwhile nature of any feat is contingent upon the design, build, and intent of the player.

In regards to the OP's build, it is obvious that the choice between Fighter and Ranger, in this case, is really a choice between taking Weapon Focus Slashing or Rapid Shot and Bow Strength.

Just like the tower shield feat and heavy armor feat from fighter is worthless to this build, if they have no desire to use a bow, and don't mind the skill point loss for 2 levels (which really is not a big deal tbh) then that is fine, go with fighter, or take barb, rage can be fun :D. They have enough feats to get the TWF and ITWF anyway

Again , depends on what they want to do and what their preference is.

Ungood
06-21-2011, 08:16 AM
Ranger wasn't on my list from the start. 16 levels of bard are set, two levels of fighter too. But I am not sure yet if I will take two rogue or two barb as the third class. Rogue would be the two-axes-figthing Dwarf I posted first, because TWF and evasion both need high dex. Barb would be the dexless THF Warforged build I posted second. More STR and HP or Evasion, tricky decision.

Alright. never mind the ranger then. no big, again, just a matter of what you want after all, no matter what anyone says, this is your character, not mine, of anyone elses, you will be the one that has to play it.

But, seeing this, Those are vastly different builds. So, what do you really want to play?

Jiirix
06-21-2011, 08:30 AM
Those are vastly different builds. So, what do you really want to play?

The builds aren't that different: Both with 16 levels of bard and full songs. The difference are TWF+evasion vs. THF+70HP more. Would be interesting to know if the barb past life still stackes.

Ungood
06-21-2011, 08:50 AM
The builds aren't that different: Both with 16 levels of bard and full songs. The difference are TWF+evasion vs. THF+70HP more. Would be interesting to know if the barb past life still stackes.

I have a WF THF and a Dwarf TWF, and while they are smiliar in class/build, they tend to play very different. And it's little things to, like WF immunities, lack of being able to jump, being able to charge though a trap as opposed to having to worry if you are about to become tender-crip chicken.

And imho as the levels move on, those slight variance do make for a different feel to the game and while the THF died out, I found the TWF to be far more fun as it matched what I wanted to do. Or at least they do to me, and that might be because I don't have a dozen builds to 20th yet and haven't played it all.

In that regard, I would suggest try them both, see how the early 5 - 6th levels stack up to, see if you like the dwarf TWF or the WF THF, I know people that tried a WF and just fell in love with the race. So, if you have tried most of what is out there already, then, I would say, it could just be a coin toss to you. if not, you might want to feel them both out a bit, get your feet wet and see which one appeals to you, after all, it is just a character slot for a short time, to run them both for a bit, and not like you need to go past Krothos gear to get a feel for them on equal footing.

Give it a try, what is the worst that happens? You like them both and level them to 20th?

Jiirix
06-22-2011, 02:22 AM
Thanks again for the input. I'll go with the THF raging Warforged Warchanter. I have a good feeling with this ;)

Stitch78
06-22-2011, 05:04 PM
Thanks again for the input. I'll go with the THF raging Warforged Warchanter. I have a good feeling with this ;)

Waiiiittttttt - don't discount evasion so quickly. If you have any evasion toons you know exactly how often it pops up over your head these days. As a front line fighter with significantly less HP than the fighters and barbs around you, it is very very handy.

Also, OTWF becomes useful in epics, where otherwise your to-hit is going to trail noticeably.

Also, if you do go rogue, people are going to ask/expect you to be able to do traps. The investment is actually minimal in terms of coin and gear - you should have plenty of skill points (and you might consider dumping concentration). My 16/2/2 can do traps in Epics.