PDA

View Full Version : Auction House costs based on minimum price



TimoteoDeLani
06-08-2011, 06:07 PM
Unfortunately really difficult to find if something like this has been posted before ... (I tried).

Currently the cost for listing on the Auction House is determined by the base price of the item (2% for a 3-day listing), and is essentially irrelevant for any item. There is no penalty for listing an item for a ridiculous amount and failing to sell, leading to unrealistic prices for many many items (and yes, I know there are items that genuinely go for 1+ million plat).

What I propose is that the cost for listing be related to the minimum price set on a listed item (I propose 10% for a 3-day listing), and that it be refunded if (and only if) the item sells (at which time the 30% of sale price is deducted).

For example, an item with base value of ~5,000pp (let's call it a +5 Adamantine Warhammer - currently list price is 100pp) is listed for 1,000pp minimum, 10,000pp buyout. The list price would be 100pp which would be refunded if the item successfully sold. If the item is not sold, the seller is out 100pp.

Another item with a base value of ~1,587pp (let's call it The Blood Stone - currently list price is 32pp) is listed for 950,000 minimum, 1,000,000pp buyout. The list price would be 95,000pp which would be refunded if the item successfully sells. If the item does not sell, the seller is out 95,000pp.

Finally, another Blood Stone is listed for 100,000 minimum, 1,000,000pp buyout. The list price would be 10,000pp which would be refunded if the item successfully sells. If the item does not sell, the seller is out 10,000pp.

The idea is to make it that that people will post items to the AH with achievable prices (at least via auction), rather than reposting with ridiculous prices every 3 days (at 10% of minimum price it would quickly add up if you fail to sell). You're not penalised for putting a high maximum price on an item, only a high minimum price that then fails to sell.

As a side benefit, it might make items with a high base value but lower achievable value actually worthwhile to post on the AH.

EustaceTrevelyan
06-08-2011, 06:15 PM
Would lead to less overall use of the AH for high value items that actually will sell at the prices listed. I would argue that the ridiculously priced items that no one is going to buy are irrelevant, and that this sort of policy would lead to the high plat stuff changing hands in trade etc.

but taht's just IMHO, what do other ppl think:)

Memnir
06-08-2011, 06:20 PM
No thanks.
They are free to post items with whatever buyout they wish, just as you are free to decide that they are asking too much and not bid.

dkyle
06-08-2011, 06:20 PM
With searching now implemented, I don't see how overpriced listings are a big enough deal to warrant this kind of hassle.

Don't like the price, don't buy.

An item can be genuinely worth a high price, but traded at low enough volume that noone buys within 3 days.

Phidius
06-08-2011, 07:23 PM
Just pretend like you don't see the "overpriced" items... Otherwise, you won't see the items. Ever.

Would you use the auction house more if all it had was junk and trash? I wouldn't.

game5551
06-08-2011, 07:33 PM
Search it, sort it!
What is the problem?

TimoteoDeLani
06-08-2011, 08:30 PM
No thanks.
They are free to post items with whatever buyout they wish, just as you are free to decide that they are asking too much and not bid.

The buyout wouldn't affect this at all, as you'd know if you'd read through my proposal. It's the minimum price that would affect the listing cost.

I don't know why people would think this would lead to less use of the auction house - I expect it would lead to more use of the auction house for it's actual purpose. It would stop people using it as temporary extra storage.

The simple fact is that the base price has no reflection on the cost of items in the AH, but it's the base price that's used for listing costs.

This system would encourage people to put achievable/realistic minimum prices, maybe reduce inflation somewhat (people use AH prices as guides) and as a side issue would possibly remove some cash from the abusers.

Memnir
06-08-2011, 08:34 PM
The buyout wouldn't affect this at all, as you'd know if you'd read through my proposal.I did, I just don't agree with it.
If it would make you feel better - replace "buyout" with "minimum bid" in my post - and it'd still reflect my views on the matter. Your proposal would only hurt the game, not help.

/shrug

TimoteoDeLani
06-08-2011, 09:49 PM
I did, I just don't agree with it.
If it would make you feel better - replace "buyout" with "minimum bid" in my post - and it'd still reflect my views on the matter. Your proposal would only hurt the game, not help.

/shrug

OK - do you think that it makes any sense that the listing fee is based on the base value of the item, considering that the base value of the item has zero effect on the minimum bid or buyout of the auction? Personally I don't.

Would going the complete other direction be of interest? Eliminate listing fees entirely. How do you think that would affect the AH?

dkyle
06-08-2011, 10:04 PM
Would going the complete other direction be of interest? Eliminate listing fees entirely. How do you think that would affect the AH?

Barely at all. There's little reason for their existance beyond flavor.

They're just not important.

jwdaniels
06-08-2011, 10:17 PM
So you either get screwed on listing fees or risk getting sniped at the end of an auction? I don't like that idea at all...

Quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with the pricing on the auction house now. Somestuff is overpriced, some is underpriced, most is about right

Talias006
06-08-2011, 10:29 PM
Barely at all. There's little reason for their existance beyond flavor.

They're just not important.

^This

I get what you're proposing OP, but there's just not enough interest (that I've noticed) in having Turbine change the way that the AH has been operating for... what? Years?

Narmolanya
06-08-2011, 10:43 PM
OK - do you think that it makes any sense that the listing fee is based on the base value of the item, considering that the base value of the item has zero effect on the minimum bid or buyout of the auction? Personally I don't.

Yes, actualy it does make sense that it is based of the base value of the item. That is the value of the item used were you to sell it at barkeep. It's dosnt matter if that +5 uber silver kopesh of awesomeness is highly desired by the community of the players and will pay one mill on the ah. The barkeep is still only going to give you 250 pp for it.

It would be awesome if items base value was fluctuating based on sell prices on the ah. It would be awesome and make the economy feel more real but it would also be a compleate waste of development time.

Memnir
06-08-2011, 11:07 PM
Eliminate listing fees entirely. How do you think that would affect the AH?It wouldn't effect it at all.

EustaceTrevelyan
06-08-2011, 11:31 PM
It wouldn't effect it at all.


QFT, listing fees are trivial. Anyway, anything that encourages sales makes for a better plat sink, so I'm really not in favor of putting road blocks in the way of auction sales and the 30% of final value they take out of the economy.



So you either get screwed on listing fees or risk getting sniped at the end of an auction? I don't like that idea at all...

Quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with the pricing on the auction house now. Somestuff is overpriced, some is underpriced, most is about right

and /this. If it costs too much, just scroll down. Nothing is going stop people from listing stuff for what they want anyway.

andreascott89
06-09-2011, 11:05 AM
This doesn't make sense to me.

A reasonable strategy for price discovery for a seller is to offer a high price and see if there are any bids.

As a seller, I am trying to find the player that places the highest value on my item. One way to find this player is to offer the item at a very high price. If no one buys, then gradually lower the price until someone purchases the item.

Now if someone else is selling the same item, I might miss out on a sale, but that is the risk I take.

Your proposal for some reason just arbitrarily penalizes sellers. How about arbitrary punishment for buyers...If you buy an item and that same item sells for a higher price within 24 hours, you either have to give the item back or pay the difference.

I'm not for that and I'm not for random seller penalties either.

J

Sebastrd
06-09-2011, 05:21 PM
No matter how you skin it OP, this isn't about listing fees; you're just whining about AH prices.

My advice to any new player that thinks AH prices are ridiculous - go farm it yourself. You'll either get the item you wanted cheaply, or realize that the price isn't as ridiculous as you thought.

TimoteoDeLani
06-09-2011, 11:50 PM
I happen to have enough plat to afford pretty much whatever I want. I don't buy anything that I don't think is worth it - I'd rather farm it myself. If I really really wanted something, I'd slap down 1+million plat - or trade large Shroud ingredients, etc.

I do genuinely feel that the listing prices are ridiculous, and should either be removed entirely, or used to remove some plat from the game (and hopefully reduce the inflation the game has suffered over time).

However, it appears as though people feel my suggestion would either have the opposite effect, or encourage sniping.

Silverwren
06-10-2011, 07:40 AM
Would removing the BUYOUT option affect any of this? I don't know myself, being a relatively new (one year old) player. Was it always there as an option or did it come later? If it came later, what was the AH like without it?

dkyle
06-10-2011, 08:10 AM
Would removing the BUYOUT option affect any of this? I don't know myself, being a relatively new (one year old) player. Was it always there as an option or did it come later? If it came later, what was the AH like without it?

Always there, I believe.

But removing it would be a terrible idea. If I want to buy something form the AH, I want it now not three days from now.

I can see no positive effect from removing buyout.

TempestAlphaOmega
06-10-2011, 08:28 AM
I tend to never look at items that don't have a buyout as the only reason I am shopping on the AH is because I want the item now, not 2 hours from now or 3 days from now. If I have time i'll farm the item myself or run through all the pawn brokers in game.

If you removed the ability to set a buyout then I wouldn't shop the AH. There are probably a few others like me in that respect.

As for the OP suggestion, fixing the AH by making changes to the cost to sellers as you have suggested is not something that comes up every week (at least within the past few months) but it does come up every couple months. I did a quick couple searches on "fix AH" "AH costs" and a few others and some threads do pop up (seems like the most recent ones were in March of this year).

My opinion is that the AH is not broken. Listing prices are trivial and I don't see an issue with that. You have the option of a true no minimum buy out auction, you can set a minimum pretty much of your choosing and you can set a buy our price. A rather healthy chunk of the purchase price is removed from player hands. The more an item sells for the more plat is pulled out of the game economy (which is a good thing). No one has to buy anything from the AH and if someone lists something for a price that is not worth it then no one has to buy it.

In the end every item is worth what too people are willing to agree to trade for it. One buyer and one seller. There is no real reason for Turbine to get any more involved in this process than the system they already have set up.

You are entitled to your opinion on this just like everyone else, but in reading your OP it seems you are more trying to prevent others from trying to sell something for a price that you think is excesses. Why should every large ticket item should have to sell on it's first posting?

Silverwren
06-10-2011, 09:46 AM
I tend to never look at items that don't have a buyout as the only reason I am shopping on the AH is because I want the item now, not 2 hours from now or 3 days from now. If I have time i'll farm the item myself or run through all the pawn brokers in game.


But removing it would be a terrible idea. If I want to buy something form the AH, I want it now not three days from now.

Just to play Devil's advocate, doesn't that then make the AUCTION hall a very large pawn shop? If there were no buyout option, it would just be that, an Auction Hall, not DDO Ebay. The starting price could still be set by the poster to whatever he/she wanted, and the final price would be set by the amount of people that want the item and how much they're willing to pay for it.

Don't get me wrong, I like the buyout option. I'm just saying that Sotheby's or Christie's Inc. wouldn't allow buyouts and they're REAL auction houses.

TempestAlphaOmega
06-10-2011, 10:08 AM
Just to play Devil's advocate, doesn't that then make the AUCTION hall a very large pawn shop? If there were no buyout option, it would just be that, an Auction Hall, not DDO Ebay. The starting price could still be set by the poster to whatever he/she wanted, and the final price would be set by the amount of people that want the item and how much they're willing to pay for it.

Don't get me wrong, I like the buyout option. I'm just saying that Sotheby's or Christie's Inc. wouldn't allow buyouts and they're REAL auction houses.

It's more like a combo pawnshop/action house. It gives the players flexability on how to use it. You don't have to use it the same way I do and thats ok.

Agreed it's not Sotheby's or Christie's but then again DDO isn't RL. In RL nobody tells you (as a person selling your own property) that you can't advertise your house/car for a specific price. Price it too high and nobody buys it so you end up relisting it or accepting a bid lower than your buy out.

Chai
06-10-2011, 10:28 AM
I would rather have it be more of a free for all than more restricted.

Higher end items that normally sell for 1m shouldnt cost the seller 200kpp simply because no one bought. Ring of spell storing, docent of defiance, red scales, etc would start costing people a fortune to post if they dont sell in three days.

No thanks.