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~STERLIN1
06-08-2011, 02:15 PM
I think it is time that the highest attack roll of the sequence came at the beginning rather than at the end.
First, it is supposed to come at the beginning and that should be reason enough.

Second, mobs are extremely mobile at this point and so players can and do often go a considerable time without ever actually rolling an attack roll indicated by their character sheet.

Third, mobs have been scaled more than sufficiently for this correction.

Fourth, try cursed crypt as a non-caster short man or solo+hire..you need a 19 or 20 to hit the end boss with some pretty nice gear on..this is actually found in several quests.(You never get the one attack of the string that has a decent chance to hit because he is so mobile)

Fifth, there are numerous checks to moderate play that are redundant with this nerf and it has, imo, outlived it's purpose.

dragonmane
06-08-2011, 04:42 PM
Just to let you know I solo'ed that with a hireling cleric and what I did was just use the hireling heal him and he died very quickly.

ExK444
06-08-2011, 04:50 PM
Regarding your first point, the idea is that if you are having trouble hitting a boss for example, you could simply wait for your attack chain to end, then whack, always getting that max bonus. This way isn't open to such abuse.

eonfreon
06-08-2011, 04:53 PM
I think it is time that the highest attack roll of the sequence came at the beginning rather than at the end.
First, it is supposed to come at the beginning and that should be reason enough.



Well, I haven't played 3.5 PnP, but from what I've heard the attack sequence in DDO is a lot more forgiving.

Isn't the first attack the same in PnP and DDO, in that it's your actual attack roll, but where it differs is that in PnP the subsequent attacks are penalized, where in DDO the subsequent attacks are given a bonus.

So if you want it like it's "supposed" to be, won't that just nerf you more?

Rian
06-08-2011, 08:44 PM
I think it is time that the highest attack roll of the sequence came at the beginning rather than at the end.
First, it is supposed to come at the beginning and that should be reason enough.

Second, mobs are extremely mobile at this point and so players can and do often go a considerable time without ever actually rolling an attack roll indicated by their character sheet.

Third, mobs have been scaled more than sufficiently for this correction.

Fourth, try cursed crypt as a non-caster short man or solo+hire..you need a 19 or 20 to hit the end boss with some pretty nice gear on..this is actually found in several quests.(You never get the one attack of the string that has a decent chance to hit because he is so mobile)

Fifth, there are numerous checks to moderate play that are redundant with this nerf and it has, imo, outlived it's purpose.

First: If they had it that way, twitch fighting would be more viable, no one would bother with the other 3 attack chains.

Second: In my experiences, if the caster isn't immobilizing them, then wait for them to come to you, if that fails, go trip them, if that fails, good luck chasing them.

Third: I don't know what to say to that. (No honestly, I don't know what to say or how to respond :p)

Fourth: Improvise, adapt, overcome. As someone earlier mentioned, take a hireling to heal him.

Fifth: A lot of things are redundant and have out lived their purpose, but we keep them anyways.

Sarisa
06-08-2011, 09:40 PM
I think it is time that the highest attack roll of the sequence came at the beginning rather than at the end.
First, it is supposed to come at the beginning and that should be reason enough.

The reason it was changed is because of "twitch" fighting. They want to encourage people to remain in place (and subject themselves to the full wrath of a boss) to get the best attack bonus. While the PnP attack progression makes sense for a turn based game, what we have in DDO makes more sense for an active action based system.


Fourth, try cursed crypt as a non-caster short man or solo+hire..you need a 19 or 20 to hit the end boss with some pretty nice gear on..this is actually found in several quests.(You never get the one attack of the string that has a decent chance to hit because he is so mobile)

He's a Vampire. Vampires are traditionally very hard to hit, with extremely high AC along with their DR. He (and other Vampires like the one at the end of The Church and the Cult) were major equipment and build testers in the past, and they are nowhere near as difficult as they were before. They're caster (and divine) prey; just like Golem's are caster's bane.

Talias006
06-08-2011, 10:46 PM
Sorry, but for someone that has been around (at least the join date says you've been here as long as I have), you really don't seem to understand the reasoning behind the increased attack bonus in the further parts of an attack chain. As has been said before, the PnP progression at +X, +(X-5), +(X-10), +(X-15) is reasonable when dealing with a turn based game where it's better to take your swing then take a 5 foot movement away, forcing your opponent to do the same and not get a full attack chain on you when it's their turn next in line. The equivocal reverse that we use for attacks standing still in ddo is a bonus for having to stand still long enough to get the last attack in your chain. If you want to have us use the PnP version of the attack chain, that's not just a nerf, but is a double nerf, for which would just bring back twitch fighting. And that's just not a good way to run things. Other than running melee combat into the ground.

If you want a good attack as your first attack, use an attack boost or smite or something similar that pumps your attack bonus up from whatever your base is. Asking to have this changed now seems a little odd, being that it's been going on for about as long as we've been playing. (Sorry if I misconstrued how long you've been playing because our join dates seem to be the same.)

~STERLIN1
06-17-2011, 10:24 AM
My reasoning revolves primarily on increased mob mobility. If they dance, jump, and hop away it becomes more important that your early attacks in the chain be the good ones because in these situations you never get the later ones. Yes, there are ways around this but ultimately I don't see how this would be a nerf as you would land more attacks while mobile which you have been (in many cases) forced to be. Thanks for all the input though.