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imbibovita
06-06-2011, 10:04 AM
I was in a quest last night (Enter the Kobold) with a group of friends all 17th-18th level. We waltzed through the quest without a single death (or even getting moderately close to death really) until the last battle where we were unceremoniously slaughtered. We all have evasion or improved evasion, we have resist energy and protection from energy all at full, and something called a "Living delayed blast fireball" did rapid shot fireballs at us that killed us nearly instantly. We figured it was a fluke that we all failed our saves, and it did enough damage to kill us that quickly so we ate some syberus cakes and gave it another go. As soon as I stepped into visible range 3 sets of 50-60 fire damage scroll above my head and boom, dead again. So if I'm getting hit for 60 damage, this means its doing 90x3, which means my "protection from energy" is gone in only 1.5 hits, which make it useless unless I spam cast it as fast as it will go.

Bottom line: We need better resists! If our enemies can toss our rapid fire 90 damage elemental blasts then what good is a piddly little 30 resistance?

I think we should do one of the following:

Introduce a high level spell that gives short duration immunity to a single element, that can only have one form active at a time (so immunity to a single element only)

or

Change the order in which resistance is applied. Currently its dynamic, static, percentage. Meaning it takes it out of your 120 points first, then if there is any left it takes out 30, then it applies any percentage reduction. If we reversed the order then we actually would have lasting protection. That same rapid shot fireball would have actually been fully absorbed twice (90-30=60. so 120 would have lasted a few hits). Add in fire shield and you may actually survive a few rounds. 90/2 = 45-30 =15. So 45 damage per round taken from your 120 protection. It would not last long, but at least it wouldn't be instantly bypassed.

These are just a few ideas, I'm sure there are other (better?) options out there. In core P&P there are no other resist spells, but you also don't have creatures that can spam three 90 damage delayed blast fireballs every round.

voodoogroves
06-06-2011, 10:11 AM
I was in a quest last night (Enter the Kobold) with a group of friends all 17th-18th level. We waltzed through the quest without a single death (or even getting moderately close to death really) until the last battle where we were unceremoniously slaughtered. We all have evasion or improved evasion, we have resist energy and protection from energy all at full, and something called a "Living delayed blast fireball" did rapid shot fireballs at us that killed us nearly instantly. We figured it was a fluke that we all failed our saves, and it did enough damage to kill us that quickly so we ate some syberus cakes and gave it another go. As soon as I stepped into visible range 3 sets of 50-60 fire damage scroll above my head and boom, dead again. So if I'm getting hit for 60 damage, this means its doing 90x3, which means my "protection from energy" is gone in only 1.5 hits, which make it useless unless I spam cast it as fast as it will go.

Bottom line: We need better resists! If our enemies can toss our rapid fire 90 damage elemental blasts then what good is a piddly little 30 resistance?

I think we should do one of the following:

Introduce a high level spell that gives short duration immunity to a single element, that can only have one form active at a time (so immunity to a single element only)

or

Change the order in which resistance is applied. Currently its dynamic, static, percentage. Meaning it takes it out of your 120 points first, then if there is any left it takes out 30, then it applies any percentage reduction. If we reversed the order then we actually would have lasting protection. That same rapid shot fireball would have actually been fully absorbed twice (90-30=60. so 120 would have lasted a few hits). Add in fire shield and you may actually survive a few rounds. 90/2 = 45-30 =15. So 45 damage per round taken from your 120 protection. It would not last long, but at least it wouldn't be instantly bypassed.

These are just a few ideas, I'm sure there are other (better?) options out there. In core P&P there are no other resist spells, but you also don't have creatures that can spam three 90 damage delayed blast fireballs every round.

It probably wasn't the Living Delayed Blast Fireball but instead the sneaky Living Meteor Swarms - it has a non-save bludgeon damage component (and thus, evasion doesn't matter).

Lerincho
06-06-2011, 10:15 AM
The resistances that you enjoy every day, is already a modification from the original resistance to energy that came out with the launch of the original game. Once upon a time ago, you could have fire resistance and be able to swim in lava. A nice relaxing lap in the pools of lava in Vault of the Night 5 really helped ease stress. Unfortunately, a mysterious tyrant decided that this was unfair to all, and changed resistances to the current form.

Bottom line, it was rebalanced two releases after Demons Sands.

chodelord
06-06-2011, 10:44 AM
resistances are fine, the end fight of ETK just has an extra challenging

it has respawning enemies, unfavorable terrain (no LOS/kiting), the boss has a very short leash, it has a one way door, there is both aoe and ray + meteor damage that cant be evaded, all the damage is elemental, the boss dispels resists, there are multiple tough red enemies, and a random optional red efreet just to keep things interesting

have a wizard w/ ooze puppet charm the living spells and maybe cast fire elemental(and nothing else if he doesnt have evasion)

keep 2 people in reserve, 1 man on top by the shrine to open the door and one with evasion to retrieve the stones,

the frenzied elems and mephits can be pulled into the corridor and taken out, they respawn but thinning them gives you some quality time with the boss

Diyon
06-06-2011, 10:54 AM
resistances are fine, the end fight of ETK just has an extra challenging

it has respawning enemies, unfavorable terrain (no LOS/kiting), the boss has a very short leash, it has a one way door, there is both aoe and ray + meteor damage that cant be evaded, all the damage is elemental, the boss dispels resists, there are multiple tough red enemies, and a random optional red efreet just to keep things interesting

have a wizard w/ ooze puppet charm the living spells and maybe cast fire elemental(and nothing else if he doesnt have evasion)

keep 2 people in reserve, 1 man on top by the shrine to open the door and one with evasion to retrieve the stones,

the frenzied elems and mephits can be pulled into the corridor and taken out, they respawn but thinning them gives you some quality time with the boss

As someone said, there's more than elemental damage involved here.

The efreet is not optional. He's required to complete the quest.


But ya, bring resists on items, high saves, maybe a pair of firestorm greaves and an absorption gs item. And kill the bosses fast

Bobthesponge
06-06-2011, 11:53 AM
/no

Sorry, but the answer is not to change how resists works but to learn how to complete the fight. This quest is not new and has been completed by many, many groups using a variety of methods. Ask around, experiment, read the forums, but don't ask for an Easy Button.

The biggest problem with the quest you already identified: it is too easy to get to the final fight, which is the only challenge.

Musouka
06-06-2011, 12:19 PM
/not signed

resists are just fine.

Had a water savant tank the shadows in ToD last night with full on GS gear for maximum absorption and resistance with red fire shield on. He did a fabulous job.

Diyon
06-06-2011, 12:25 PM
Also, this fight (on normal) used to be a LOT harder than it is now. And it was possible to complete with no issues then (not to say there weren't plenty of disasters). Comparatively normal is a cake walk now.

BangsLiekWhoa
06-06-2011, 01:22 PM
Also, this fight (on normal) used to be a LOT harder than it is now. And it was possible to complete with no issues then (not to say there weren't plenty of disasters). Comparatively normal is a cake walk now.

Absolutely true. You should have tried Elite before the recent nerf to that room. THAT was insane! (but I have completed it that way with a group, so the current version of that quest on normal should be fine)

My suggestion would be to get an arcane to take mass charm monster in there and keep using it as often as possible while the rest of the party (minus 1 to stay at the valve) beats on the boss.