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Dispel
06-06-2011, 08:47 AM
It would be neat if you could do some ritual that's far cheaper than Lesser Reincarnating to forget XP and lose levels so that you can farm new ones back. I'll give an example..

Say you made an 18rgr,1rog,1monk melee and your level 17 friend is like "omg I can't get XP halp" and you're like "I wish I went AA and had the capstone so I could shoot faster!" you could go perform some in-game ritual that causes you to lose your last 2 levels.

Then, you go help your lvl 17 friend get XP without giving him a penalty and become 20ranger when you recap again.

Not as easy as an LR, no benefits like a TR.. well?

Bargol
06-06-2011, 09:26 AM
Why? huh?

Dispel
06-06-2011, 09:32 AM
Why? huh?

Why not?

mikesharpshooter
06-06-2011, 09:33 AM
make a new ranger :-)

Puppetian
06-06-2011, 09:37 AM
No. Planning your character is something everyone should learn. Plus given the lack of high level content would cause major slayers grinding.

Either tough it out to 20 and TR or reroll, as simple as that.

Bodic
06-06-2011, 09:42 AM
sure lets add another mechanic to the game to suit your needs of not paying for it but getting it faster. there used to be only 1 way to fix a toon delete and reroll. now you have options and yiou want more sry H4X no.

talyor
06-06-2011, 09:43 AM
It would be neat if you could do some ritual that's far cheaper than Lesser Reincarnating to forget XP and lose levels so that you can farm new ones back. I'll give an example..

Say you made an 18rgr,1rog,1monk melee and your level 17 friend is like "omg I can't get XP halp" and you're like "I wish I went AA and had the capstone so I could shoot faster!" you could go perform some in-game ritual that causes you to lose your last 2 levels.

Then, you go help your lvl 17 friend get XP without giving him a penalty and become 20ranger when you recap again.

Not as easy as an LR, no benefits like a TR.. well?

I am sure if they did allow it .... it would work the same way as any Reincarnation and the two lvls lost would be the last 2 you took so i doubt it would help with your example as most informed persons would have taken rouge at lvl 1 for the skill points ..... :D

Dispel
06-06-2011, 12:23 PM
They used to allow this simply by dying enough you would lose XP.

They didn't change this because they didn't want people to change their toons by purposely dying.

They changed it so people wouldn't delevel by accident. They know most players die a lot.

Musouka
06-06-2011, 12:28 PM
They know most players suck.

Horrible generalization. That attitude just reinforces my disapproval of this suggestion.

Dispel
06-06-2011, 12:31 PM
Horrible generalization. That attitude just reinforces my disapproval of this suggestion.

I didn't realize how harsh that came out so I edited my post. Sorry you disagree.

Uska
06-06-2011, 01:28 PM
They used to allow this simply by dying enough you would lose XP.

They didn't change this because they didn't want people to change their toons by purposely dying.

They changed it so people wouldn't delevel by accident. They know most players die a lot.

The xp penalty wasnt a deleveling like that it just was an xp penalty you had to earn off to lvl and later they had it go away with time and then dumped it sadly but it wasnt a delveling

Dispel
06-06-2011, 01:38 PM
The xp penalty wasnt a deleveling like that it just was an xp penalty you had to earn off to lvl and later they had it go away with time and then dumped it sadly but it wasnt a delveling

Oh I've only been playing since December of 2009, my bad. I didn't know the details behind it.

Uska
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
Oh I've only been playing since December of 2009, my bad. I didn't know the details behind it.

No biggie hope I didnt sound as if I was jumping on you

~STERLIN1
06-06-2011, 11:59 PM
I'll give you a solid reason why not. It's a lot of work for a very small set of people and people that make errors on their character develeopment are the same people that might well exhaust xp and find themselves unable to cap which will almost certain produce complaint about that next. There are many many ways to deal with your issue not the least of which is the fact that in your example the two of you could easily lvl together anyway. The levels weren't that significantly different in your example. Finally, you don't really think they will give you something that specifically invalidates the heart of wood do you?

Falco_Easts
06-07-2011, 11:42 PM
They used to allow this simply by dying enough you would lose XP.

They didn't change this because they didn't want people to change their toons by purposely dying.

They changed it so people wouldn't delevel by accident. They know most players die a lot.

That's not how the XP hit worked. And no, most people don't die a lot. Well, most I know anyway.

I belive there was a problem in the way DDO stores (or doesn't store more to the point) past information on levelling which is why we must "level" from scratch when reincarnating.

bigolbear
06-08-2011, 12:26 AM
the basic premise of letting freinds party together despite lvl diferences is good. some of your reasoning isnt however, there are more than enough methods of respecing your character.

id propose a counter to your proposal. (im sticking this in a thread of its own too btw so if u like come sign it)

have a character in game that can grant and remove special temporary negative lvls, negative lvls already restrict spellcasting if you no longer qualify and give excelent penalties to all mele stats. A negative lvl makes you exactly 1 lvl weaker on average.

so the lvl 18 guy can go pick up 10 negative lvls and party with his lvl 10 friend, giving NO XP to the lvl 18 guy but giving normal un moded xp to his lvl 10 friend. As no xp is being granted it should also not count against the total number of completions for the quest.

Everquest 2 had a system like this called mentoring, it worked briliantly and realy helped reduce the issue of high lvl characters not being able to party with lower lvl pals.

In ddo this simple suggestion could add some fun and challenge back into favour grinding, let freinds roll together and go some way to solving the low lvl 'hjeeler' crisis.

donfilibuster
06-08-2011, 09:15 AM
By 3e D&D lv loss have turned into xp loss, and level drain into negative levels.

Sure we want to respec, but levels are not 'jobs' you can change along the way.
3e D&D is strong in customization, but this had a lot to do with roleplaying the character you want instead of having to choose from predefined classes.
e.g. taking a paladin level wouldn't make you a real paladin, but rather your own envision of a crusader-like warrior.

Retraining class levels is still possible, just not trivial. Some rules for it were on the PHBII.
As far as retraining goes, feats are easier to change, but skills and levels would take more work, such as a special quest.
But there's other ways, like magical rituals, which is very much what the heart of woods do.

The same goes for enhancements in DDO, which is a good way to let us choose our own build rather than preset prestige classes.
Being able to retrain enhancements or visit fred for feat swap is just a form of retraining.

The point remains however, that you can't just removing levels as you take them.
One gains the levels like milestones as you earn experience, and in general, this is a one way trip.
The more experience you gain, the less challenge you find and need to move on to tougher monsters and quests.
You may be a wizard and decide to begin doing some melee, but can't learn it just by practice since the orcs will still treat you as the danger arcanist you are.
You'd still be toughened, and fully geared. The orcs may flee, or try overwhelm you, and spoil your sparring vorpaling practice.

It used to be in 2e that you could advance the new class at its own pace, but that was for predefined classes.
Customization in 3e standarized the said milestones, if you take a new class you wouldn't be very good at it but gain some ability to use by your character as a whole.
Some of it is gone missing from the lack of roleplay aspects in DDO but still the roots of not having level removal.

phalaeo
06-08-2011, 09:21 AM
the basic premise of letting freinds party together despite lvl diferences is good. some of your reasoning isnt however, there are more than enough methods of respecing your character.

id propose a counter to your proposal. (im sticking this in a thread of its own too btw so if u like come sign it)

have a character in game that can grant and remove special temporary negative lvls, negative lvls already restrict spellcasting if you no longer qualify and give excelent penalties to all mele stats. A negative lvl makes you exactly 1 lvl weaker on average.

so the lvl 18 guy can go pick up 10 negative lvls and party with his lvl 10 friend, giving NO XP to the lvl 18 guy but giving normal un moded xp to his lvl 10 friend. As no xp is being granted it should also not count against the total number of completions for the quest.

Everquest 2 had a system like this called mentoring, it worked briliantly and realy helped reduce the issue of high lvl characters not being able to party with lower lvl pals.

In ddo this simple suggestion could add some fun and challenge back into favour grinding, let freinds roll together and go some way to solving the low lvl 'hjeeler' crisis.

How is this going to work? Are you going to regear- go and buy gear from a broker/AH because all your stuff is now in your bag with red Xs on it? And what about your level-dependent feats and enhancements?

ImFour20
06-08-2011, 10:51 AM
No. Planning your character is something everyone should learn. Plus given the lack of high level content would cause major slayers grinding.

just like conserving your sp resources is something everyone should learn?

i have a feeling we're gonna get something new called. . .echoes of forgetfulness. . .very soon :D

Tsuarok
06-08-2011, 02:27 PM
I like the idea. There is unlimited xp in the game, so I don't really see that as becoming too much of a problem. The only issue I could see is that there wouldn't be sufficient demand for the work required in designing the system.

I also think that they should have a lesser TR, bringing you back to level 1 with all your stuff in a cache and the ability to change everything but your name and sex, but usable at any level, and giving no other TR benefits (no PL feats or 34/36 points).

sebastianosmith
06-08-2011, 02:36 PM
How is this going to work? Are you going to regear- go and buy gear from a broker/AH because all your stuff is now in your bag with red Xs on it? And what about your level-dependent feats and enhancements?

Agreed. The logistics would be nightmarish.