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Zachski
06-04-2011, 05:45 AM
I ask this because, quite frankly, I really don't see what's so great about it. It's a crafting class, which is awesome... but everyone can already do that. While some people see the crafting system being released as a hint for Artificier, it seems to be the opposite for me, since it's essentially replacing a big part of what Artificiers do.

From what I understand of it, it's a casting class that can't cast, but instead imbues. While this is kinda interesting, it also makes things a bit awkward to do.

So, uh... what's up with it? Why is everyone so excited and pushing for it?

karhon
06-04-2011, 05:47 AM
Simple. It's new and different.

Zachski
06-04-2011, 05:57 AM
Simple. It's new and different.

So new and different that it doesn't even deserve its playstyle being mentioned? :P

Meretrix
06-04-2011, 06:10 AM
They will buff the party's weapons with like bane and stuff and be able to wear heavy armor and disarm traps. They should also be able to make pots and wands.

donfilibuster
06-04-2011, 08:49 AM
Let's put it this way, while some classes have varied class abilities to use in quests the artificer cover all their needs with items.

Need melee? craft some beaters; need magic? should indeed be able to make wands, scrolls and potions.
Healing? Clickies? Buffs? all set. Makes the artificer quite versatile.

But the artificer would be indeed lackluster if all were just crafting.
The infusions looks good enough, the UMD bonus would be unique and applying metamagic to items is nice.

The artificer by the book can do traps and surely craft them as well.
And don't forget the Hommunculus.

See http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060328a.

Aesop
06-04-2011, 08:54 AM
I ask this because, quite frankly, I really don't see what's so great about it. It's a crafting class, which is awesome... but everyone can already do that. While some people see the crafting system being released as a hint for Artificier, it seems to be the opposite for me, since it's essentially replacing a big part of what Artificiers do.

From what I understand of it, it's a casting class that can't cast, but instead imbues. While this is kinda interesting, it also makes things a bit awkward to do.

So, uh... what's up with it? Why is everyone so excited and pushing for it?

I doubt that they will match the pnp class because much of what they do is outside of combat and in a combat MMO there abilities won't translate exactly...

I wrote something up on them though


here



Artificer

Alignment: Any
HD: d6
Skills per level: 4+Int Mod
Skills in Class: Concentration, Disable Device, Haggle, Open Locks, Search, Use Magic Device

BAB: Rogue
Fort Save: Poor
Reflex Save: Poor
Will Save: Good

Level 1: Artificer Knowledge, Artisan Bonus, Craft Reserve, Disable Traps, Item Creation, Scribe Scroll

Most of these abilities do not translate well into DDO. So they will need something a little different in many cases. In particular Artificer Knowledge, Craft reserve, Item Creation and Scribe Scroll don’t translate well in a system where Crafting is a function of a separate leveling process. Item Creation Feats are pretty much out. As Artificer contains as features a lot of Item Creation Feats that feature needs to be replaced by something to give as much spread as possible. We don’t want a feature to be front loaded or clumped in any level range and likewise we don’t want a lot of bare levels where nothing really new happens.

Artisan Bonus I see as being a Flat +2 Bonus to Use Magic Device with a possible increase at future levels, perhaps a further bonus at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20. Alternately this could be a +1 at each tier if a bonus of +10 seems too high.

Disable Traps is equivalent to the rogue Trapfinding ability.

While Turbine may involve crafting into the mechanics of the Artificer it is obvious that for MMO play they need something more to round them out. Considering the flavor of a class of builders I always figured on Artificer translating into something of a Pet Class. So to replace some of their level one abilities I would start them off with a Clockwork Companion.

The Clockwork Companion I would be an Iron Defender and as the class progresses they would improve the base Companion at different levels. Additionally there would be Enhancements to fill in the middle ground between Base upgrades that would help keep the Companions useful at all levels. Pets would have their own Action Bar that would allow a greater degree of control on the actions of the companion similar to the Hireling Bar.

Level 2: Brew Potion

Trapmaking I: This seems like a good spot to grant the Artificer the Trapmaking Feat similar to the Rogue Class. As Artificer is a crafting class it would not be pushing things too far if they received bonuses to their Traps similar to how the Mechanic PrE might. Perhaps every 4 levels beyond this they could gain further bonuses to their Traps. Additionally these seem a good way to mimic some of the flavor of the class with the ability to create Spell Traps.



Level 3: Craft Wondrous Item

Clockwork Companion II: This would seem a good place to start improving the Clockwork Companion. Perhaps an upgrade to a Reinforced Iron Defender would be good.


Level 4: Craft Homunculus, bonus feat

Bonus Feat: The bonus feat is fine. We don’t have to equally replace the abilities so Craft Homunculus can be just pushed off to the side for now; anyway we have Clockwork Companions to replace the ability earlier. Can choose the bonus feat from the following list: any Metamagic Feat, Skill Focus (Use Magic Device, Disable Device, Search, Open Locks), and maybe some other ones that I’m unsure of.

Level 5: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Retain Essence

Artisan Bonus II: Either an extra +1 or a +2 depending on balance.


Level 6: Metamagic Spell Trigger

Metamagic Imbue: Instead of breaking down where Metamagic Feats would apply this would just let you apply them to Wands and Scrolls. The addition of Metamagic Feats would cost twice as many Spell Points as if casting a spell or infusion.

Trapmaking II: This would be a point upon which the Trapmaking ability of the Artificer would improve based on level, perhaps adding a bonus to damage and DC for either mines or grenades.

Level 7: Craft Wand

Clockwork Companion III: Here is where the Clockwork Companion really starts to ramp up and we get a Mithril Defender

Level 8: Bonus Feat

Bonus Feat: Leave the bonus feat as is.

Level 9: Craft Rod

Nothing

Level 10:

Artisan Bonus III: extra bonus to Use Magic Device.

Trapmaking III: An additional bonus to traps made by the Artificer.




Level 11: Metamagic Spell Completion

Improved Metamagic Imbue: Metamagic Feats applied to wands and scrolls would now cost their normal amount of Spell Points.
Clockwork Companion IV: This is where we get a new Clockwork Companion, and the last of the quadrupeds, an Adamantine Defender.

Level 12: Craft Staff, Bonus Feat

Bonus Feat: as normal

Level 13: Skill Mastery

Remove skill mastery

Level 14: Forge Ring

Trapmaking IV: bonus to traps made by artificer

Level 15:

Clockwork Companion V: A new Companion and the first biped, the Iron Golem.

Artisan Bonus IV: further bonus to UMD

Level 16: Bonus Feat

Bonus Feat: As normal


Level 17:

Nothing

Level 18:
Trapmaking V: Bonus to traps made by Artificer

Level 19:

Clockwork Companion VI: The final Clockwork Companion upgrade is the Warforged Juggernaut.

Level 20: Bonus Feat

Artisan Bonus V: final bonus to UMD.

Bonus Feat: Keep the bonus feat where it is.
Additionally Artificers have infusions which in table top are slightly different from spells but for simplicity sake we can just have them work the same way as spells. In table top infusions can only be cast upon objects and constructs, the objects can then confer the bonus onto the user of said object. To simplify this they can operate as buff effects instead. Artificers know all infusions of any level they can cast (similar to clerics) but can cast any of them that they know (like a sorcerer). There are infusions that would prove difficult to recreate here, but others are identical to spells that already exist.

There are 6 levels of Infusions. The list I think reasonably easy to do is as follows:

1st-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Ablative Armor: Reduce damage from next attack by 5 + caster level (max 15).
• Resistance Item: Item bestows +1 or better resistance bonus on saving throws.
• Shield of Faith: Aura grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.



Tran • Inflict Light Damage: Deals 1d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +5) to a construct.
• Lesser Armor Enhancement: Armor or shield gains special ability with +1 bonus market price modifier. This could be done with a short list of Enhancements and apply as a Buff effect.
• Magic Stone: Three stones gain +1 on attack, deal 1d6 +1 damage. Instead od three stones make it a single stone that does 1d6 per 2 levels with a 5d6 cap.
• Personal Weapon Augmentation: Your weapon gains special ability with +1 bonus market price modifier. Similar to the Lesser Armor Enhancement have this apply a single bonus Enhancement.
• Repair Light Damage: "Cures" 1d8+1/level (max +5) points of damage to a construct.
• Skill Enhancement: Item bestows circumstance bonus on skill checks.
2nd-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Elemental Prod: Move an elemental creature a short distance. A sort of bull rush against an elemental, perhaps with a knockdown ability.

Tran • Align Weapon: Weapon becomes good, evil, lawful, or chaotic. Makes a target swing as though the Aligned Property was applied
• Armor Enhancement: Armor or shield gains special ability with +3 bonus market price modifier. Same as Lesser Armor Enhancement.
• Bear's Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
• Bull's Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
• Cat's Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level.
• Eagle's Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
• Fox's Cunning: Subject gains +4 to Int for 1 min./level.
• Inflict Moderate Damage: Deals 2d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +10) to a construct.
• Lesser Construct Essence: Grants a living construct qualities of the construct type.
• Lesser Weapon Augmentation: Weapon gains special ability with +1 bonus market price modifier. Similar to Personal Weapon Augmentation only can be applied to another.
• Owl's Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
• Reinforce Construct: Construct gains 1d6 + 1/level temporary hit points.
• Repair Moderate Damage: "Cures" 2d8+1/level (max +10) points of damage to a construct.
• Toughen Construct: Grants construct +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor.
3rd-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Construct Energy Ward: As resist energy, except that the target must be a construct.
• Spell Snare: Dragonshard absorbs a spell or spell-like ability of up to 3rd level. Creates a spell absorbing effect.

Evoc • Blast Rod: Infused rod stores 1d8/level destructive energy.
Tran • Adamantine Weapon: Transform weapon into adamantine. Apply Adamantine as a property to the targets weapons.
• Greater Armor Enhancement: Armor or shield gains special ability with +5 bonus market price modifier.
• Inflict Serious Damage: Deals 3d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +15) to a construct.
• Lesser Humanoid Essence: Grants a construct the ability to accept healing magic. Improves the constructs susceptibility to Positive Energy.
• Power Surge: Charged spell trigger item gains temporary charges.
• Repair Serious Damage: "Cures" 3d8+1/level (max +15) points of damage to a construct.
• Stone Construct: Construct gains DR 10/adamantine.
4th-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Censure Elementals: Deal 2d4 + 1/level damage each round to elementals.
• Greater Construct Energy Ward: As protection from energy, except that the target must be a construct.
• Lesser Globe of Invulnerability: Stops 1st- through 3rd-level spell effects.

Tran • Concurrent Infusions: Cast three 1st-level infusions simultaneously.
• Humanoid Essence: Imposes upon a construct some of the weakness of the humanoid type.
• Inflict Critical Damage: Deals 4d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +20) to a construct.
• Iron Construct: Construct gains DR 15/adamantine and takes half damage from acid and fire.
• Repair Critical Damage: "Cures" 4d8 +1/level (max +20) points of damage to a construct.
• Weapon Augmentation: Weapon gains special ability with up to +3 bonus market price modifier.
5th-Level Artificer Spells
Conj • Invoke Elemental: You temporarily release a bound elemental and compel it to obey you. This could act as summon elemental effect instead.
• Wall of Stone: Creates a stone wall that can be shaped.
Ench • Dominate Living Construct: As dominate person, but affecting a living construct. Maybe it could instead affect constructs in general.
Evoc • Wall of Force: Wall is immune to damage.
Tran • Construct Essence: As lesser construct essence, but grants more qualities of the construct type.
• Disrupting Weapon: Melee weapon destroys undead.
• Mass Inflict Light Damage: Deals 1d8 damage +1/level to many constructs.
• Mass Repair Light Damage: Repairs 1d8 damage +1/level for many constructs.
• Slaying Arrow: Creates a projectile deadly to a specific creature type. Could instead create a stack of Slaying Arrows similar to Arcane Archer Slayer Arrows.
6th-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Globe of Invulnerability: As globe of invulnerability, lesser, plus 4th-level spell effects.
• Greater Spell Snare: Dragonshard absorbs a spell or spelllike ability of up to 6th level.
Conj • Wall of Iron: 30 hp/four levels; can topple onto foes.
Evoc • Blade Barrier: Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.
Tran • Disable Construct: Deals 10/level damage to target construct.
• Greater Humanoid Essence: Gives a construct the humanoid type.
• Greater Natural Weapon Augmentation: Natural weapon gains special ability with up to +5 bonus market price modifier.
• Greater Weapon Augmentation: Weapon gains special ability with up to +5 bonus market price modifier.
• Hardening: Permanently make an object's hardness improve.
• Mass Inflict Moderate Damage: Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many constructs.
• Mass Lesser Construct Essence: Grants many living constructs qualities of the construct type.
• Mass Repair Moderate Damage: Repairs 2d8 damage +1/level for many constructs.
• Total Repair: Repair 10 points/level of damage to a construct.

The only thing left is Enhancements and PrEs.

As far as Enhancements go Skill Enhancements for each of the In Class Skills seem fine. Additional improvements to Wand and Scroll Mastery similar to Wizards and Bards would be a good fit if not necessary. Reducing the cost of Metamagic Feats would be a good thing as well. The enhancements to wands and scrolls should exceed other classes as they specialize in items. Additionally a line to improve the Clockwork Companions would be a good thing as well.

Toughen Companion 1-5: +1 AC, +10hp to the Companion
Strengthen Companion 1-5: +2 Strength, Improved Weapon +1 Enhancement bonus per tier
Reinforce Companion 1-5: +1 DR/Adamantine, +1 Fort Save

Just for a few ideas.

For a PrE I’d say Renegade Master Maker might be an interesting choice… like a Pale Master but in Construct Form instead.


That’s what I have for Artificer so far

Aesop

Rakian_Knight
06-07-2011, 10:06 PM
I'd say Artificer as well and the new game mechanic is going to be with a lot of the spell I've been wondering why they aren't in the game right now. You remember how they changed master's touch to effect the weapon instead of having it grant you a ton of feats and lag. I think that is going to be the new mechanic that we see used to let Artificers become true masters of crafting because they can add effects to any weapon at anytime.

For example: Weapon Alteration (lesser, greater): Is going to have a list of weapon properties that they can apply to their or your weapon. Lesser Weapon Alteration (Infusion level 2) would be able to put a +1 effect (like flaming, frost, etc.). Weapon Alteration (Infusion Level 4) would be able to put up to a +3 effect on a weapon and finally Greater (Infusion Level 6) would be able to place up to a +5 effect.

Also they would be able to use metamagics on magic items like wands and similar items.

In short I think if they have the Artificers are the next class they will be UMD Specialist Rogues on Crack.

Posted this in the thread debating on what the next class is and I do believe it is the Artificer.

My thoughts on how they would make an Artificer would be basically a member of the party that more buffed the equipment vs. the party. They already proved that they can put temporary enhancements on weapons when they changed Master's Touch so I think Artificer will put that system to work boosting his own and the parties weapons.

However Renegade Master kind of puts an interesting problem on the PrEs because it would be the only PrE that warforged couldn't enter. I was looking at stuff from the Magic of Eberron book and Alchemist Savant looks like an interesting prestige class that looks made for Artificers but I don't think it could be translated into DDO because of the focus on crafting potions and spellvials.

Memnir
06-07-2011, 10:26 PM
I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO.

Rakian_Knight
06-07-2011, 10:38 PM
I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO.

Why not?

Aashrym
06-07-2011, 10:43 PM
I think infusions will just be slow to apply, like bard songs. The power we see from them depends on how the bonuses end up applied.

Buffing in itself isn't exactly the strongest basis for a class.

Bonuses to magic items, such as metamagic feats on wands and scrolls is a place I can see a strong ability to go with UMD. We can see the benefits of stacks of scrolls now; if we can get the ability to apply meta's to wands and scrolls with artificers we have a lot of potential. Possibly expensive but a lot of potential. Instead of an XP pool for crafting and extra charges I would be inclined to use infusion points or another reserve bar just for using the meta's on items intead of extra charges.

Another trap skill class.

Pets maybe. A variety of construct options based on level wouldn't be too bad. We have pets already and the biggest drawback to them is lack of control. A command bar similar to hirelings would go a long way for summon spells and pets. The ability to heal them is handy, but really need them to be more effective than what we have now if it's a main class feature.

The end result looks like it could be a lot of versatility just with the weapons buffs and UMD abilities if it's anything like I envision it. Adding blade barrier on top gives an AoE damage as an added bonus. Definitely another support specialist.

Grenada
06-07-2011, 11:07 PM
So new and different that it doesn't even deserve its playstyle being mentioned? :P

I think everyone is looking forward to seeing what the devs will do with the concept. No one knows what direction, in the end, the devs will take, and this is something so different that there is a hopeful suspense that this will be coming out this year (though i have my doubts)

ProdigalGuru
06-07-2011, 11:22 PM
I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO.

I concur.

People just want the new class to buff their weapons EVEN MORE.

BoolZ
06-07-2011, 11:27 PM
I hope the new class isn't Artificier for a couple of reasons.

Wasn't there already problems with players and to much scroll usage? I remember reading about a Batman build that helped lead to firewall not being sold at scroll vendors. Now it'd be meta'd DBF.

It already takes to long for everyone to pass every buff they got before part 4 of Shroud. Now I have to wait while someone buffs my weapons too? My LitII Khopesh doesn't need to breath underwater, and is more than enough for Harry on normal.

There's already to many classes that think once they're done doing the one thing they do better than anyone else they're allowed to pike until they're needed to do that one thing again. Seriously portals don't have an AC start swinging.

Lastly, I want the new class to be Psionic Warrior.

Zachski
06-08-2011, 12:59 AM
My LitII Khopesh doesn't need to breath underwater

I laughed hard. Sigging.

budalic
06-08-2011, 01:44 AM
/Lots of good stuff/


I have only few things to add:

Spells: I think artificer shouldn't be able to cast spells from, let's call it, infusion pool. IMO, they should only be able to enchant items and make scrolls better with it, and be able to only cast spells from wands/scrolls. That's the overall feel of the class, IMO.

Crafting: Conversely, I think artificer should be only class to be able to craft scrolls/wands via u9 crafting system - and they should be able to craft best scrolls, up to lvl 9, from both arcane and divine spell list (also in accordance with pencil and paper game). Perhaps they should get some compensation for it - like, say, being able to deconstruct trash wands for essences - since they'll spend essences on their base class feature, scroll crafting.

Metamagic: IMO, they should be able to apply Meatamagic to wands when they get MM spell trigger; and to scrolls with MM spell completion - works closer to pnp version. Make costs the same as normal metamagic, and give artificers infusion point progression similar to bard - it should be enough, IMO.

Companion: Meh, i don't think it will work - wizards/sorcs don't get familiar, ranger gets no companion. IDK - perhaps as a minor class feature.

UMD bonus: Perhaps a bit OP, with changes I'm suggesting. Than, again, UMD check to use 9th lvl spell scroll is 51, right?

Summary: I think artificers could work as best support casting class in game - that what spellsinger bards are supposed to be. Having access to both divine and arcane spell list, via scrolls, would work wonders for classes versality. But, casting from scrolls = concentration checks - they probably couldn't afford aggro from epic mobs, unlike other casters, who usually have most, if not all, of epic aggro. Solid healers, buffers, damage dealers - as long as they don't take too much aggro. I'd like to see class like that.

Zachski
06-08-2011, 04:13 AM
Wouldn't they be able to apply Quicken to their wands and scrolls?

budalic
06-08-2011, 05:06 AM
Wouldn't they be able to apply Quicken to their wands and scrolls?

Hmm, they could do it in pencil and paper verision, but then again, sorcerers couldn't quicken there, and they can in DDO. Quicken worked very differently there - I don't see much reason to allow them to use scroll without concentration check... But, it wouldn't break the game even if they could - I think DC casting should be undoable by artificers, so Wizards are safe. Sorcs should be able to attain much better spell damage, be able to cast more spells, and have faster casting. FvS has wings and AoV. Cleric has radiant servant, and both can do melee better...

That actually makes me wonder about PRE's for Artificer - perhaps, as rather unique class, having very tight scope and without too much PRE's in pencil and paper version artificer shouldn't have PREs?

Or, perhaps, Runecaster (for magical trap spells), Something mechanical based (Summons, better WF reconstruction),
and perhaps Mechanic shared with rogue? All flavorful, unique and not too powerfull options.

EDIT: Acually, cleric might be worse than artificer; but cleric is quite underpowered right now compared to other 3 lvl 9 casting classes anyway. (Still better than everything else, though.)

FrozenNova
06-08-2011, 05:07 AM
It's already been mentioned that the new class will be 'closer to monk than fvs'. Consider what they did to monk - the DDO monk is entirely unlike its pnp cousin, while fvs was more or less a direct implementation. Whatever the new class may be, it's unlikely that we can reach any decent estimates as to how it plays based on material we already have.

richieelias27
06-29-2011, 09:59 AM
Why isnt Artificer a candidate for a *playable* class in DDO?

Well, quite honestly all of its abilities apply very very ho-hum boosts to incredibly underwhelming game elements (wands? potions? scrolls? traps? summons? minor buffs? *yawn*) Sounds like a very weak bard to me.


It's already been mentioned that the new class will be 'closer to monk than fvs'. Consider what they did to monk - the DDO monk is entirely unlike its pnp cousin, while fvs was more or less a direct implementation. Whatever the new class may be, it's unlikely that we can reach any decent estimates as to how it plays based on material we already have.

This actually leads me to believe that the next class will be the psychic warrior. Perhaps theyre making some sort of active combat mechanism to regulate how often powers can be used/how powerful they are? Sounds likely to me. I mean if you think about it, a regenerating power point pool sounds a lot like another class in DDO...

Jaid314
06-29-2011, 10:21 PM
Why isnt Artificer a candidate for a *playable* class in DDO?

Well, quite honestly all of its abilities apply very very ho-hum boosts to incredibly underwhelming game elements (wands? potions? scrolls? traps? summons? minor buffs? *yawn*) Sounds like a very weak bard to me.

obviously you've never been hit by a twinned, empowered, maximised, energy-admixtured, split-ray, quickened niac's cold ray cast from a wand/staff/scroll before, if you think this...

richieelias27
06-29-2011, 10:56 PM
obviously you've never been hit by a twinned, empowered, maximised, energy-admixtured, split-ray, quickened niac's cold ray cast from a wand/staff/scroll before, if you think this...

No, I havent. And neither has anyone else inside this game. And nor will they ever....

Why?

Basing the power of a class on its pocketbook or allowing a classes power to be limited only by their pocket book (i.e. basing its power on crafting only done by it outside of quests or on how many wands it can buy) would make said class weak to the point of unplayability by new players, and overpowered to the extreme for veterans. This would be an epic fail for Turbine. The idea that the Artificer class would somehow be able to craft uberpowerful gear in DDO just like you can in PnP is a pipe dream.

Asmodeus451
06-29-2011, 11:10 PM
IF we were to get Atrificer as a class, i would want to see them have the ability to both Heighten and Dual-Weild wands.

by Heighten i mean cast with the wand as if it were the highest spell level the artificer can cast (ie a lvl20 Artificer would use all wands at spell level 9)

the ability to dual weild wands would make Artificers capable of significant DPS.

Aashrym
06-29-2011, 11:37 PM
Why isnt Artificer a candidate for a *playable* class in DDO?

Well, quite honestly all of its abilities apply very very ho-hum boosts to incredibly underwhelming game elements (wands? potions? scrolls? traps? summons? minor buffs? *yawn*) Sounds like a very weak bard to me.



This actually leads me to believe that the next class will be the psychic warrior. Perhaps theyre making some sort of active combat mechanism to regulate how often powers can be used/how powerful they are? Sounds likely to me. I mean if you think about it, a regenerating power point pool sounds a lot like another class in DDO...

The buffs aren`t minor. If they can add effects to weapons or armor using a similar ability to master`s touch they will have strong buffs. Adding a free bane to weapons is an average of 7 damage per hit. That`s comparable to bard song by itself but available much earlier at that bonus.

The weapon augmentation infusion ability gives a lot. Want a paralyzer? Infusion. Want a bane? Infusion. Want an icy burst? Infusion. Need 30 fire resist? Infusion. Need ghost touch? Infusion. Align a weapon? Vorpal? Blinding? Underwater action? Heavy fortification? Infusions.

UMD is a strong ability. Trapfinding is a bonus.

None of those abilities has anything to do with crafting. Adding abilities specific to items like applying meta`s or power surging wands so they don`t run out of charges is handy and goes well with UMD.

If anything I would be more concerned that a class comes out who can give what players grind to get on gear and the current state of bard offensive casting a class that competes with UMD and buffs but has trapfinding and blade barrier might be rough.

Aashrym
06-29-2011, 11:39 PM
IF we were to get Atrificer as a class, i would want to see them have the ability to both Heighten and Dual-Weild wands.

by Heighten i mean cast with the wand as if it were the highest spell level the artificer can cast (ie a lvl20 Artificer would use all wands at spell level 9)

the ability to dual weild wands would make Artificers capable of significant DPS.

Infusions go up to 6th level.

Aashrym
06-29-2011, 11:42 PM
No, I havent. And neither has anyone else inside this game. And nor will they ever....

Why?

Basing the power of a class on its pocketbook or allowing a classes power to be limited only by their pocket book (i.e. basing its power on crafting only done by it outside of quests or on how many wands it can buy) would make said class weak to the point of unplayability by new players, and overpowered to the extreme for veterans. This would be an epic fail for Turbine. The idea that the Artificer class would somehow be able to craft uberpowerful gear in DDO just like you can in PnP is a pipe dream.

That simply isn`t true. Look at the number of effects in game now that can be applied to weapons, armor, and other gear players wear. That`s what artificers add with their infusions regardless of wand whipping. That can make them playable without worrying about their pocket books.

richieelias27
06-30-2011, 08:56 AM
That simply isn`t true. Look at the number of effects in game now that can be applied to weapons, armor, and other gear players wear. That`s what artificers add with their infusions regardless of wand whipping. That can make them playable without worrying about their pocket books.

Ok, infusions:

Artificer: "Here party, have your weapon and armor buffs!"
Party: "Kthanks, now switch to your Sorc so we can get this party started"

Ok, so the class is a buffbot, and after that first 2 minutes spent buffing the party the only thing it can do is be a mediocre fighter... (or disarm traps which every rogue can do already, or UMD stuff which every class can do already)

unless...

Uber wand/potion/scroll crafting/boosting ability:

Sure, yes, everyone in the game *can* spend money to make their gear better. The reason this works is that each class is still very powerful even without any of this. If you tie a major class ability to buying wands/scrolls/potions so that it can use them at an increased ability (like applying metamagics to them), then you just created a class that *HAS* to spend copious amounts of money just to be effective at all (outside of buffing). That is where the fail lies.

Artificer might be good in PnP, but in an MMO environment it will either be heavily overpowered due to nearly unlimited funds or incredibly weak.

articwarrior
06-30-2011, 08:58 AM
artificier = healy rogue?

don't we have this already?

Aashrym
06-30-2011, 12:26 PM
Ok, infusions:

Artificer: "Here party, have your weapon and armor buffs!"
Party: "Kthanks, now switch to your Sorc so we can get this party started"

Ok, so the class is a buffbot, and after that first 2 minutes spent buffing the party the only thing it can do is be a mediocre fighter... (or disarm traps which every rogue can do already, or UMD stuff which every class can do already)

unless...

Uber wand/potion/scroll crafting/boosting ability:

Sure, yes, everyone in the game *can* spend money to make their gear better. The reason this works is that each class is still very powerful even without any of this. If you tie a major class ability to buying wands/scrolls/potions so that it can use them at an increased ability (like applying metamagics to them), then you just created a class that *HAS* to spend copious amounts of money just to be effective at all (outside of buffing). That is where the fail lies.

Artificer might be good in PnP, but in an MMO environment it will either be heavily overpowered due to nearly unlimited funds or incredibly weak.

Do bards leave the party after they sing and swap out to new character? How would artificers even level doing what you suggest?

They cast other infusions, items are free with turn ins, they have the ability to spend infusions to prevent using charges on wands in PnP, and there is an eternal wand available in the intro quest.

I'm failing to see the issue you seem to be concerned with. There's also the added possibility we'll be seeing construct pets from them. I see a lot of potential instead of issues with buying consumables. Nothing that isn't in the game already when it comes to consumables.

Aashrym
06-30-2011, 12:28 PM
artificier = healy rogue?

don't we have this already?

We could stand to have more than one class with trapskills, but that isn't what makes a rogue. It's the free rogue abilities, the pre's, the sneak attack, and the skills.

That's like saying we already have clerics and don't add bards because clerics can already heal.

If we were concerned with classes sharing abilities we would have a lot less classes in the game. ;)

richieelias27
06-30-2011, 01:26 PM
Do bards leave the party after they sing and swap out to new character? How would artificers even level doing what you suggest?

They cast other infusions, items are free with turn ins, they have the ability to spend infusions to prevent using charges on wands in PnP, and there is an eternal wand available in the intro quest.

I'm failing to see the issue you seem to be concerned with. There's also the added possibility we'll be seeing construct pets from them. I see a lot of potential instead of issues with buying consumables. Nothing that isn't in the game already when it comes to consumables.

Well, pets by and large are worthless. Exceptions being Air Elemental, Eladrin Ghaele, and Mummy.

On sharing class abilities... Sharing class abilities is fine and good with one consideration: The class which shares a major ability from another class *must* have something that it does with is unique and valuable. Currently, every class in-game follow this.

Artificer Infusions are long duration. Bardsongs last a limited amount of time, but in addition to that they are an arcane/healer mix with UMD and an innate CC ability. They add good CC with healing and decent melee. Even still, how often do you find groups with more than 1 or 2 bards? Do you remember how it was with Arcanes not too long ago with certain raids? No more than 1 or the group was considered hindered by the presence of that extra arcane. Get ready to experience that in every single quest with your artificer.

The eternal wands will last you until about level 4.

You wont be funding your wand usage with just turn-ins if that is your only source of casting DPS. I also highly doubt they would add a class ability that made every wand an eternal wand.

So in the end you get this problem:
Artificer does traps. So does Rogue. Obviously Rogue has to have something it does better than Artificer, which is easy: melee DPS. Rogues are top-end melee DPS currently anyway, so no stretch there.

Artificer does a sort of spellcasting dps. Well, if it's going to do that it better not even come close to any of the pure casting classes who have a finite resource: Spellpoints.

Artificer does melee. Well he better not even come close to Rogues, Fighters, Rangers, Barbarians or Paladins. Since it also does traps with UMD and buffs (presumably even stronger buffs than a Bard) it better not even melee as well as a Bard... so somewhere between caster focused FvS and Warchanter Bard.

So what you end up with is a buffbot with mediocre melee, mediocre healing, probably very limited spellcasting, and traps.

Now, most groups already have a rogue since they do *very* respectable melee dps even if they cant do traps. Except even the rogues that dumpstat INT and put token points into DD and OL can still disable most traps in the game and open nearly every chest/door in the game thanks to gear (heck even my Sorc very rarely finds a door/chest she cant knock open). So probably isnt even needed for traps/locks either.

Massive AOE dps with arcane is already filled, dont need a wand wielding Artificer for that.

Healing Constructs isnt really an issue right now. I suppose you could say that an Artificer would fill a unique role as dedicated WF healer... But I would counter and say "We don't need one."

Bottom line with the Artificer is:
It adds nothing new and unique to the game given that everyone can craft already, and everything else it offers aside from buffs is just a watered down version of everyone else. It could concievably be a powerful buffbot (I highly doubt they would have even a fraction of the game-breaking buffs you find in PnP), but given that an Artificer can cast all of the infusions available... you only ever need one.

Rakian_Knight
06-30-2011, 01:55 PM
Well, pets by and large are worthless. Exceptions being Air Elemental, Eladrin Ghaele, and Mummy.

On sharing class abilities... Sharing class abilities is fine and good with one consideration: The class which shares a major ability from another class *must* have something that it does with is unique and valuable. Currently, every class in-game follow this.

Artificer Infusions are long duration. Bardsongs last a limited amount of time, but in addition to that they are an arcane/healer mix with UMD and an innate CC ability. They add good CC with healing and decent melee. Even still, how often do you find groups with more than 1 or 2 bards? Do you remember how it was with Arcanes not too long ago with certain raids? No more than 1 or the group was considered hindered by the presence of that extra arcane. Get ready to experience that in every single quest with your artificer.

The eternal wands will last you until about level 4.

You wont be funding your wand usage with just turn-ins if that is your only source of casting DPS. I also highly doubt they would add a class ability that made every wand an eternal wand.

So in the end you get this problem:
Artificer does traps. So does Rogue. Obviously Rogue has to have something it does better than Artificer, which is easy: melee DPS. Rogues are top-end melee DPS currently anyway, so no stretch there.

Artificer does a sort of spellcasting dps. Well, if it's going to do that it better not even come close to any of the pure casting classes.

Artificer does melee. Well he better not even come close to Rogues, Fighters, Rangers, Barbarians or Paladins. Since it also does traps with UMD and buffs (presumably even stronger buffs than a Bard) it better not even melee as well as a Bard... so somewhere between caster focused FvS and Warchanter Bard.

So what you end up with is a buffbot with mediocre melee, mediocre healing, probably very limited spellcasting, and traps.

Now, most groups already have a rogue since they do *very* respectable melee dps even if they cant do traps. Except even the rogues that dumpstat INT and put token points into DD and OL can still disable most traps in the game and open nearly every chest/door in the game thanks to gear (heck even my Sorc very rarely finds a door/chest she cant knock open). So probably isnt even needed for traps/locks either.

Massive AOE dps with arcane is already filled, dont need a wand wielding Artificer for that.

Healing Constructs isnt really an issue right now. I suppose you could say that an Artificer would fill a unique role as dedicated WF healer... But I would counter and say "We don't need one."

Bottom line with the Artificer is:
It adds nothing new and unique to the game given that everyone can craft already, and everything else it offers aside from buffs is just a watered down version of everyone else. It could concievably be a powerful buffbot (I highly doubt they would have even a fraction of the game-breaking buffs you find in PnP), but given that an Artificer can cast all of the infusions available... you only ever need one.

You are forgetting that they said the class was going to be more like monk in its construction though and what we've said might just be the beginning of what could make an artificer.

I don't think they will make Artificers nothing more then a buff bot however. Most of ideas here are simply speculation at best from hints of what the Devs have done in the past however they may simply take a left turn and pull out something completely different. I do believe the new class is going to be the artificer and I think it will find a role in DDO but like the monk was originally (I've been told) will take some time to make "playable" in this version of Dungeons and Dragons.

Artificers should have to begin with:
+Trapfinding and Trapmaking
+Invocations
+Wand Specialist (UMD specialist)
+Pets

Trapfinding and Trapmaking will be shared with the rogue so nothing really new there unless they give the entire trapmaking system an overhaul.
Invocations will be something small but special about the class giving small buffs to weapons and other items, although I imagine they will put a limit on it so we don't spend an hour waiting for weapon buffs if they don't make it an ability that they can only use on themselves.
Wand Specialist (UMD specialist) I think people are going a little nuts over. Yes they will make nice back up healers/casters but nothing compared to the real thing. The caster level issue, if nothing else, will put a halt to most of this.
Pets aren't very useful for elitist or people who only care about number but don't fail to notice that they devs have been placing time with this issue from the increased list of summons and the feat that improves summons stats. I wouldn't be surprised if they still were working on this aspect more.
As for the big thing that will make artificers stand out, that will be the "monk" factor that no one has a clue that will make this class unique in its own way. Artificers will be specialist of items but how, is going to be a question that is worth waiting for.

Although my thoughts on Psions/other psionics is basically making it a charge feature to add more power points to a manifestation.

Aashrym
06-30-2011, 02:49 PM
Well, pets by and large are worthless. Exceptions being Air Elemental, Eladrin Ghaele, and Mummy.

For the most part. Some are not bad for leveling but past experience doesn't guarantee future value. I would wait and see instead of assume. I am also cautious on the pet angle tbh, but given the strong buffing potential artificers have and infusions specific to enhancing constructs it might work out better than expected.


Artificer Infusions are long duration. Bardsongs last a limited amount of time, but in addition to that they are an arcane/healer mix with UMD and an innate CC ability. They add good CC with healing. Even still, how often do you find groups with more than 1 or 2 bards? Do you remember how it was with Arcanes not too long ago with certain raids? No more than 1 or the group was considered hindered by the presence of that extra arcane. Get ready to experience that in every single quest with your artificer.

We have no idea how long the durations would be. Durations are one the most commonly changed part of any effect to match the MMO environment. It's a key part of balancing the abilities out.

I could see that happening with Artificers. I can also see them limited by a point pool for infusions and taking more could potentially mean more damage effects on weapons. Unlike taking 2 bards and 1 has better IC taking 2 artificers means 1 might be adding bane while another adds icy burst for stacking damage. We don't know at this point but something like that would encourage more artificers if more infusions available means increased damage.


The eternal wands will last you until about level 4.

You won't be funding your wand usage with just turn-ins if that is your main source of casting DPS. I also highly doubt they would add a class ability that made every wand an eternal wand.

Yes, and then you have more items. But if you could maximize and empower the eternal wands, maybe level 6 or 8? Don't know.

The infusion in PnP adds 5 temp charges used before actual charges, so it stretches out wand usage. I would find it more likely that artificers have a percent chance to not use a charge when using a wand that could be increased through enhancements. Not actually eternal, but longer lasting.

There are classes already that go through lot of consumables for healing. The more plat those characters have the more healing they have. This is part of the game and having that is a definite advantage. Conversely newer players can't twink or fund that way. This doesn't stop them from eventually getting that money.

If a wizard can make a living swinging a great axe for 6 or 7 levels so can an Artificer. The artificer will be better at it than a wizard or a bard for those levels depending on the augment weapon abilities that do go into the game.

It's easy to wand heal at low levels. There is no reason that so many characters heal through potions, scrolls, and wands without concern but we can't enter a character who uses wands, staves, and scrolls offensively. At low levels pick up an axe, infuse it, and go.

That's why I don't share your concerns on using items offensively. I know from experience how to play my casters and bards at low level and how much income they can spend on consumables at higher levels. The only difference is it's a different type of consumable. I would hope for some more items beyond wands, however. The level of spells available on wands is a restriction that might need to be addressed.


So in the end you get this problem:
Artificer does traps. So does Rogue. Obviously Rogue has to have something it does better than Artificer, which is easy: melee DPS. Rogues are top-end melee DPS currently anyway, so no stretch there.

Artificer does a sort of spellcasting dps. Well, if it's going to do that it better not even come close to any of the pure casting classes.

Artificer does melee. Well he better not even come close to Rogues, Fighters, Rangers, Barbarians or Paladins. Since it also does traps with UMD and buffs (presumably even stronger buffs than a Bard) it better not even melee as well as a Bard... so somewhere between caster focused FvS and Warchanter Bard.

So what you end up with is a buffbot with mediocre melee, mediocre healing, probably very limited spellcasting, and traps.

Now, most groups already have a rogue since they do *very* respectable melee dps even if they cant do traps. Except even the rogues that dumpstat INT and put token points into DD and OL can still disable most traps in the game and open nearly every chest/door in the game thanks to gear (heck even my Sorc very rarely finds a door/chest she cant knock open). So probably isnt even needed for traps/locks either.

Massive AOE dps with arcane is already filled, dont need a wand wielding Artificer for that.

Healing Constructs isnt really an issue right now. I suppose you could say that an Artificer would fill a unique role as dedicated WF healer... But I would counter and say "We don't need one."

Bottom line with the Artificer is: Adds nothing new and unique to the game given that everyone can craft already, and everything else it offers aside from buffs is just a watered down version of everyone else. It could concievably be a powerful buffbot (I highly doubt they would have even a fraction of the game-breaking buffs you find in PnP), but given that an Artificer can cast all of the infusions available... you only ever need one.

So you are saying they are similar to bards. Buffs and versatility. What I see them lacking is strong offense, like bards.

These are the same statements that were on the forums in 2005 and 2006 about why bards are useless. And yet now they are a popular addition to most raids and competent to fill several rolls even if they don't excel at them.

Artificers might be a niche role but I have no doubts about someone wanting to bring one along for the buffs, and they can scroll heals at least as well as some other classes can scroll heal. If they can buff better than a bard but bards can CC I wouldn't object to taking an artificer over a bard (or in addition to) or playing one.

More info: d6 hp, 3/4's bab, light and medium armor, shields but not tower shields, good will saves with poor fort and ref saves, 4 skill pts per level, +2 UMD, infusion saves are INT based, metamagic spell trigger items starting at 6th lvl, bonus feat every 4th level.

They have MAD issues between INT (infusions) and CHA (UMD) while wanting some STR and CON to make mediocre melee. I would expect most players to take dump INT for the min for 6th lvl infusions and ignore the few offensive infusions that do exist. Very similar play style to a bard with buffs, bonus feats, item usage, and no fascinate.

They also add flavor. This is Eberron and artificers are part of the base classes. If you don't like them don't play one or add them to your LFM's. I don't expect that to be a big issue for everyone, however.

richieelias27
06-30-2011, 03:11 PM
For the most part. Some are not bad for leveling but past experience doesn't guarantee future value. I would wait and see instead of assume. I am also cautious on the pet angle tbh, but given the strong buffing potential artificers have and infusions specific to enhancing constructs it might work out better than expected.



We have no idea how long the durations would be. Durations are one the most commonly changed part of any effect to match the MMO environment. It's a key part of balancing the abilities out.

I could see that happening with Artificers. I can also see them limited by a point pool for infusions and taking more could potentially mean more damage effects on weapons. Unlike taking 2 bards and 1 has better IC taking 2 artificers means 1 might be adding bane while another adds icy burst for stacking damage. We don't know at this point but something like that would encourage more artificers if more infusions available means increased damage.



Yes, and then you have more items. But if you could maximize and empower the eternal wands, maybe level 6 or 8? Don't know.

The infusion in PnP adds 5 temp charges used before actual charges, so it stretches out wand usage. I would find it more likely that artificers have a percent chance to not use a charge when using a wand that could be increased through enhancements. Not actually eternal, but longer lasting.

There are classes already that go through lot of consumables for healing. The more plat those characters have the more healing they have. This is part of the game and having that is a definite advantage. Conversely newer players can't twink or fund that way. This doesn't stop them from eventually getting that money.

If a wizard can make a living swinging a great axe for 6 or 7 levels so can an Artificer. The artificer will be better at it than a wizard or a bard for those levels depending on the augment weapon abilities that do go into the game.

It's easy to wand heal at low levels. There is no reason that so many characters heal through potions, scrolls, and wands without concern but we can't enter a character who uses wands, staves, and scrolls offensively. At low levels pick up an axe, infuse it, and go.

That's why I don't share your concerns on using items offensively. I know from experience how to play my casters and bards at low level and how much income they can spend on consumables at higher levels. The only difference is it's a different type of consumable. I would hope for some more items beyond wands, however. The level of spells available on wands is a restriction that might need to be addressed.



So you are saying they are similar to bards. Buffs and versatility. What I see them lacking is strong offense, like bards.

These are the same statements that were on the forums in 2005 and 2006 about why bards are useless. And yet now they are a popular addition to most raids and competent to fill several rolls even if they don't excel at them.

Artificers might be a niche role but I have no doubts about someone wanting to bring one along for the buffs, and they can scroll heals at least as well as some other classes can scroll heal. If they can buff better than a bard but bards can CC I wouldn't object to taking an artificer over a bard (or in addition to) or playing one.

More info: d6 hp, 3/4's bab, light and medium armor, shields but not tower shields, good will saves with poor fort and ref saves, 4 skill pts per level, +2 UMD, infusion saves are INT based, metamagic spell trigger items starting at 6th lvl, bonus feat every 4th level.

They have MAD issues between INT (infusions) and CHA (UMD) while wanting some STR and CON to make mediocre melee. I would expect most players to take dump INT for the min for 6th lvl infusions and ignore the few offensive infusions that do exist. Very similar play style to a bard with buffs, bonus feats, item usage, and no fascinate.

They also add flavor. This is Eberron and artificers are part of the base classes. If you don't like them don't play one or add them to your LFM's. I don't expect that to be a big issue for everyone, however.

The issue isnt "I dont want to see artificers ever"

The issue is "If they are going to give us one new class with the next update, please let it be something useful and not a flavor class."

If they add two classes, great, make it something useful, new and unique plus artificer. However, they only mentioned that there is one new class so... please... no artificer.

Aashrym
06-30-2011, 03:17 PM
The issue isnt "I dont want to see artificers ever"

The issue is "If they are going to give us one new class with the next update, please let it be something useful and not a flavor class."

If they add two classes, great, make it something useful, new and unique plus artificer. However, they only mentioned that there is one new class so... please... no artificer.

What class can they add that would have abilities not already covered by other classes?

I think infusing weapons and armor is useful and not currently part of the game. Nothing else comes to mind that we don't already have covered.

Yajerman01
06-30-2011, 03:32 PM
It's already been mentioned that the new class will be 'closer to monk than fvs'.


Druid comes to mind

Aashrym
06-30-2011, 03:37 PM
Druid comes to mind

We already have confirmation it's not druid tho. It's likely a psionic class and might be an artificer, with a high chance it's something that isn't a druid. :D

EDIT: It's not even 'next update' for that matter. It was 'later this year'. I wouldn't even consider that a guarantee for this year. ;)

Yajerman01
06-30-2011, 03:57 PM
We already have confirmation it's not druid tho. It's likely a psionic class and might be an artificer, with a high chance it's something that isn't a druid. :D

EDIT: It's not even 'next update' for that matter. It was 'later this year'. I wouldn't even consider that a guarantee for this year. ;)


Well if its closer to monk (I am thinking about special/traditional focus) then perhaps Samurai or if like you say Psionic, then perhaps an Ardent.

richieelias27
06-30-2011, 04:06 PM
We already have confirmation it's not druid tho. It's likely a psionic class and might be an artificer, with a high chance it's something that isn't a druid. :D

EDIT: It's not even 'next update' for that matter. It was 'later this year'. I wouldn't even consider that a guarantee for this year. ;)

I'm fairly certain they did say a new class is coming with update 11 (next update) and it definitely is not Druid (though the *other* class could be a druid if they release two.... then the joke would be on us)

Soulknife?

has mindblade
is psionic
functions very similar to monk...

Ithaquah
06-30-2011, 04:26 PM
I'm guessing that Artificers will be able to "re-charge" items.

I don't know if they will go so far as to add charges back to normal wands, but it would make sense to let them re-charge eternal wands and other clicky items that have charges/day.

GeneralDiomedes
06-30-2011, 04:34 PM
Did they say the class was 'monk-like', or did they say the effort to develop the class was similar to the effort required to development the monk?



In terms of new functionality created for it, this is a lot closer in size to Monk than to Favored Soul.


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3740866#post3740866

Aesop
06-30-2011, 04:38 PM
Did they say the class was 'monk-like', or did they say the effort to develop the class was similar to the effort required to development the monk?



http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3740866#post3740866

I'd say the feel of the sentence leaned more towards the later.

Aashrym
06-30-2011, 04:46 PM
From the state of the game letter.

http://www.ddo.com/us/news/1433-2011-state-of-the-game-producer-letter


The two specific questions that we received most often that I have not yet addressed related to when we will see the Druids or when we may see a level cap increase beyond level 20 and into Epic levels. I can confirm that we have made great headway in our work on these highly requested features, although at this point it looks unlikely we’ll get these out in 2011. I know! I want them too. Despite that, I still wanted to let you know that there will be a new class in 2011 that we’ll talk about later on, so stay tuned!

From the response thread.


Hey everyone-

Just wanted to jump on and address a few points that have come up in the thread.

One question I know many are asking is why Druids are not the next class that will come to DDO. It is true they have been a long time coming. We know you want them! And we want to add them to the game but we want the class to be done right so we are taking the time to be able to do that. As mentioned above the issue comes down to engine technology needed for shape-shifting into different natural forms. I can confirm that this technology is coming to our engine this year, but it was delayed and it is still a few months out so we can’t bank on it or we risk not getting a new class out this year at all!

As far as speculation about the new class, although I can’t divulge too many details, I can say that this class will be a pretty big addition to the game! In terms of new functionality created for it, this is a lot closer in size to Monk than to Favored Soul. It is a big undertaking for us and will include some unique abilities that we think you will enjoy.

On the topic of more Epic quests, it isn’t that we don’t ever intend to do these again. Creating Epics takes more work than you might think and we’ve received a lot of feedback that the current version is not appealing enough to many of our players. Since we know the system is in flux, and we are currently focused on developing adventure packs which are playable for level 20 characters, we are not currently giving Epic a lot of focus. Our content this year is pretty much increasing in level as we go, so once we get the level 20 House Cannith content further underway, it will be time to start thinking about more Epics.


Specifics are not quite in there and I think the comments can be read in more than one way. It doesn't state that it's similar to monk to me, but more that the divergence from other classes is the big difference.

richieelias27
07-01-2011, 08:09 AM
Starting to sound a lot more like Warlock then to me. They'd pretty much have to design an entire new spell system for them.

But then on the flip side they would also have to add in new item effects with which they can boost their eldritch abilities. They would also have to add unique items and sets in every quest which gives unique items and sets designed for current classes or risk Warlocks having zero or limited options for gear....

Probably too much work unless they let the current potency etc. effects work on eldritch abilities... but that seems very sloppy and lame.

Yajerman01
07-01-2011, 09:46 AM
Starting to sound a lot more like Warlock then to me. They'd pretty much have to design an entire new spell system for them.

But then on the flip side they would also have to add in new item effects with which they can boost their eldritch abilities. They would also have to add unique items and sets in every quest which gives unique items and sets designed for current classes or risk Warlocks having zero or limited options for gear....

Probably too much work unless they let the current potency etc. effects work on eldritch abilities... but that seems very sloppy and lame.


The more I think about it and the more I read into the design of Monk - the paths, their focus and all the stances and finishers, the more I think about Ardents.

Ardents have Mantels of Psionic powers and you can focus on total offensive or defensive. They are also alotted fullplate which would open up the market again for viable fullplates. And they have enough negative to balance them out makign sure you pick a specific path for them or fail.

I am calling out Ardents as the new chars, you heard it here first folks!

Uska
07-01-2011, 09:48 AM
The more I think about it and the more I read into the design of Monk - the paths, their focus and all the stances and finishers, the more I think about Ardents.

Ardents have Mantels of Psionic powers and you can focus on total offensive or defensive. They are also alotted fullplate which would open up the market again for viable fullplates. And they have enough negative to balance them out makign sure you pick a specific path for them or fail.

I am calling out Ardents as the new chars, you heard it here first folks!

never heard of the class nor had many of my friends but then we never bought splat books didnt like em


so I am gonna say we are more likely to get to play dragons over this one since they would have to do the psionic system to make this fly

Yajerman01
07-01-2011, 09:59 AM
never heard of the class nor had many of my friends but then we never bought splat books didnt like em


so I am gonna say we are more likely to get to play dragons over this one since they would have to do the psionic system to make this fly

you are probably right Uska. My thinking is they already have limited psionic ingame now, and expanding on that would be tedious but viable.

here is some notations on the Ardent which can be found @ .http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060509a

here is a cut-n-paste of the generic info on them.


The ardent from Complete Psionic offers players a chance to play a deep-thinking character whose personal philosophy is so well developed that the character attains psionic powers. The class allows nearly any kind of character. An ardent can blast foes with energy attacks, be stealthy or subtly persuasive, serve as a healer or protector, or even function as a melee combatant.
Assets
When you chose an ardent, you have access to psionic powers and a few other useful abilities. Here's a brief list of things you'll have going for you when you choose an ardent --

Mantles: A mantle represents a universal concept or philosophical idea that forms the basis for psionic study. A mantle includes a short list of psionic powers that are available to the ardent for his personal repertoire. A mantle also includes a granted power similar to the granted power a cleric receives from a domain.

An ardent chooses two mantles at 1st level plus an additional mantle at 2nd, 5th, 10th, and 15th level. The 1st two mantles are the ardent's 'primary mantles'. Most of the psionic powers an ardent chooses must be from those primary mantles -- see below for more details.
Good Will Saves: An ardent uses the best progression for Will saves (see Table 3-1 in the Player's Handbook). This helps the ardent resist most effects that attack or fool her mind or assault her spirit, such as charms, compulsions, illusions, and fear. Ardents should also have high Wisdom scores (because Wisdom governs several aspects of their psionic powers), which improves their Will saves even more.
Good Armor Class: Depending on the mantles you select, you might have access to defensive powers that improve your armor class, such as defensive precognition, thicken skin, and deflection field, and powers that can make foes miss, such as concealing amphora. You also have the ability to wear any kind of armor and use any kind of shield except a tower shield. That usually means you have an have an impressive Armor Class rating even without manifesting a defensive power.
Fair Hit Points: Your 6-sided hit dice give you a reasonable hit point total. You can't withstand severe punishment, but few characters that share your offensive potential also share your hit points.
Good Attack Bonus: An ardent's base attack bonus is +3 per four levels, which is second only to the more martial classes such as the fighter. If you decide to enter combat, you can do pretty well.

Weaknesses
The ardent's many advantages come at a price. Here are a few things to consider when thinking about an ardent character --

Limited Power Selection: An ardent begins play knowing only two psionic powers, and those must be from the mantles she selected. At each level beyond 1st, an ardent can chose one additional power.

As noted earlier, the two mantles an ardent selects at 1st level are her primary mantles. Any other mantles she selects are secondary. An ardent cannot have more psionic powers in a secondary mantle than she has in either of her primary mantles. So, the two mantles you choose at 1st level have a big impact on how your character develops. You have a limited ability to change which of your mantles are primary and secondary as you advance through the class, but doing so leaves you strongly committed to your newly designated primary mantle.
Low Skill Points: At a mere two skill points per level, most ardents don't gain many skill ranks, even with quadruple skill points at 1st level.
Mediocre Weapon Selection: The ardent is proficient only with simple weaponry. The simple weapon category contains some decent weapons, but they're not the most deadly ones available.
Poor Fortitude and Reflex Saves: Ardents have the worst progression for Fortitude and Reflex (see Table 3-1 in the Player's Handbook). Ardents aren't likely to get out of the way when things get rough, nor can they easily shake off the effects of poisons and other things that attack their bodies.
Low Mobility: An ardent's reliance on heavy armor makes her a slow mover on the battlefield.

Playing a Classy Ardent
People who play great ardents usually keep the following in mind --
Choose Your Mantles Carefully
Don't pick a mantle lightly, especially when selecting your two primary mantles at 1st level. Start by deciding what sort of character you'd like to create. For example, if you plan to create a psionic powerhouse who can blast your party's foes, look for at least one mantle that provides you with offensive powers. Don't overlook the granted ability a mantle provides. These powers can give you an important edge when the going gets tough. A granted power also lends some depth to your character concept.
Once you've chosen your first mantle, choose a second that supplements or complements the first in some way. You can also choose a second mantle based on what suits your character concept. For example, if you want to serve as mobile artillery for your group, your first mantle might be the energy mantle, which includes the powers energy ray, energy push, energy bolt, energy burst, energy wall, energy manipulation, and energy wave. You also gain a granted power that gives you some energy resistance (when you expend your psionic focus).These are potent combat powers, and the granted ability gives helps you to resist energy-based counterattacks. You can expand your offensive options with the destruction or mental power mantles. Alternatively, you might want a mantle that gives you useful options when you enter combat or maneuver before combat. Some excellent companions to your energy mantle include the element mantle (which includes offensive, defensive, and utilitarian powers) and the freedom mantle (which provides excellent mobility).
You can use the methods described here to choose your secondary mantles when you gain them.
Remember Your Friends
No matter what kind of ardent you create, working well with your friends improves your chances for success and survival. The mantles you choose will determine how you get the most from your relationship with your comrades.
The Party's Main Fighter: Whoever has to stand in the front line and handle most of the fighting acts as a bulwark against danger for the more vulnerable members of the party, and that includes you. You have a good Armor Class and a respectable hit point total, but a few rounds of spirited melee will ruin your day.
If your selection of powers is primarily offensive, be ready to support those characters with your powers in case they get into trouble. When manifesting your powers, aim them so your friends aren't caught in their destructive effects. Nothing wears out your welcome faster than poorly aimed effects that hurt friends as well as (or instead of!) foes.
If your mantles don't run to offense, look for other ways to support your party's fighting characters. If you can provide healing, be generous with it. Few, if any, powers you can manifest are as effective as a fighting peer. A fighting character also benefits from ability enhancements or effects that harass or hinder their foes.
With the right selection of mantles, you might be able to handle some fighting yourself. If so, look for ways to share some of your psionic effects with your allies. If you can shorten a battle by enhancing your allies, you are more likely to survive the fight. Plan to work with fighting characters to identify dangerous foes and eliminate them quickly.
The Party Scout: Stealthy characters such as rogues, rangers, and monks often get in over their heads, so expect to be part of the rescue party when necessary. These characters also are quite good at flushing out targets for your psionic effects.
If you're serving as a scout, don't take unnecessary risks and try not to range too far ahead of your allies.
Other Spellcasters and Manifesters: You probably have more hit points and a better Armor Class than any arcane spellcasters or psionic characters in your group. Try to stay close enough to these characters so that you can protect them if a foe breaks through the front line.
Whenever possible, make spellcasters aware of what powers you have at your command and encourage those characters to choose daily spells that fill the gaps in your power selection and avoid too much duplication. When working with other manifesters (or with spellcasters who don't prepare spells in advance), work out a plan ahead of time for which character will use which power and when. For example, a massive volley of attack spells at the beginning of each fight probably is overkill and a waste of resources. It's more effective to divide up casting and manifesting tasks in some manner. A character with a high initiative bonus, for example, might loose an area attack. After that, other casters and manifesters can pick off the survivors.
Some Key Equipment
As an ardent, your gear is nearly as important as your spells, so don't neglect it. Here are some essentials --

Armor: Plan to buy the best armor you can afford, and carry a heavy shield as well -- you'll never regret having a formidable Armor Class. Don't overlook other defensive items such as rings of protection and amulets of natural armor. Keep in mind that several lesser items stacked together give you better protection at a cheaper price than one big item.

You have access to defensive powers that can work almost as well as armor (at least for a short time). You can learn only a limited number of powers, however, and relying on defensive powers saps your daily allotment of psionic power points. You are better off treating your defensive powers as temporary augmentations to your defensive equipment.

If you do a lot of wilderness adventuring, consider some backup armor, such as a suit of studded leather (or a mithral chain shirt if you can afford it) to wear at night. If you sleep in heavy armor, you'll suffer penalties the next day. If you sleep in your skivvies, you'll suffer bigger penalties if you're attacked in the night. On the other hand, protecting yourself overnight is a great use for any defensive powers you might have, and the cash you save by not buying extra armor might be worth a few extra power points now and then.


Melee Weapon: You're pretty good in combat, so be prepared to fight. A heavy mace or morningstar packs the most punch among the simple weapons you know how to use. A spear, however, is almost as effective and can prove useful for miscellaneous tasks, such as poking or probing surfaces. You also can throw a spear.


Ranged Weapon: A light crossbow can be as effective as a low-level attack power against some opponents. Use it when necessary to conserve your power points and when the opposition isn't threatening enough to require manifesting a power. You might also consider a heavy crossbow. It's deadly but slow to reload. That reload time might not bother you too much, however, because you might find that manifesting a power or entering melee is more worthwhile than a second shot.


Backup Powers: You never know when you'll run out of power points, and you never know when you'll need a particular power and need it very badly. It's hard to beat a cognizance crystal for keeping a few power points in reserve.




Wiki gave very basic info on them.

baddax
07-01-2011, 11:22 AM
Ran across this on ddo wiki http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Artificer_Infusions not sure if it accurate or updated though.

Aashrym
07-01-2011, 11:43 AM
Starting to sound a lot more like Warlock then to me. They'd pretty much have to design an entire new spell system for them.

But then on the flip side they would also have to add in new item effects with which they can boost their eldritch abilities. They would also have to add unique items and sets in every quest which gives unique items and sets designed for current classes or risk Warlocks having zero or limited options for gear....

Probably too much work unless they let the current potency etc. effects work on eldritch abilities... but that seems very sloppy and lame.

It's possible, but when I think warlock all I think is another spell blaster. That's actually the same thing I see with most psionic classes to of course but I think psionics fits the campaign setting better.

Soulknife would be similar in design to a monk, or possible a psychic warrior. I wouldn't really be surprised (or unhappy) if we were limited to on psionic class that's just a psion, but soul knife wouldn't be too bad for a secondary more combat oriented psionic class.

Too many classes would concern me. I think that can create issue balancing, makes completionist more difficult, and in some cases there's too much duplication. Too many choices doesn't help new players either.

I like flavor but I would be more than satisfied with druid, artificier, psion, soulknife. I think a modified soulknife in the melee section, druid in caster section, artificer as a specialist, and modified psion as a specialist would complete thing more than adequately.

But since Turbine obviously isn't looking for Aashrym's official seal of approval anything could happen. :D

Aashrym
07-01-2011, 11:54 AM
Ran across this on ddo wiki http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Artificer_Infusions not sure if it accurate or updated though.

Here's another summary link. Level 5 infusions looks sparse.

http://dnd.freeminded.org/tables/DnD3.5Index-Infusions-Artificer.pdf

I would expect weapon augmentation infusions to be broken out across various levels instead of running a few generic do what you want with them.

gloopygloop
07-01-2011, 07:50 PM
How will Artificier play on DDO if it gets released?

I think it will play a lot like a Psychic Warrior or a Psion.

Sydril
07-01-2011, 08:09 PM
Oppenheimer was an artificer, he was a physicist primarily but he was also an artificer.

Just saying.

Uska
07-01-2011, 08:13 PM
I think it will play a lot like a Psychic Warrior or a Psion.

makes no sense since we dont have those classes and so they cant be a valid compairison since they have no game play at all right now and in pnp they play nothing alike

Zachski
07-02-2011, 01:03 AM
I think it will play a lot like a Psychic Warrior or a Psion.

I don't really even see how.

HastyPudding
07-04-2011, 11:23 AM
I think it will play a lot like a Psychic Warrior or a Psion.

Psion and Artificer are two entirely different ways of playing. In current game terms (not PnP) the Artificer is like a bard spellsinger with a rogue splash with naturally high crafting skills, while a Psion is like a wizard archmage specced heavily into enchantment with some force abilities. One deals with infusions given to others, the other deals with augments given to themselves. One deals with the physical and the other deals with the metaphysical; the two classes can't be more different.


On a side note, if they add Psions, then you know Wilders will soon follow as a class, later on. Psions and Wilders are like Wizards and Sorcerers or Cleric and Favored Souls. You can't have one without the other.

In fact, this makes me think even more that the new class is psionic-based. I mean, we have three main categories; melee (Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Monk), spellcasters (Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Favored Soul), and specialists (Rogue, Ranger, Bard, and anything like an Artificer, Druid, or Hexblade would fit into this spot). Now, in D&D terms, there is a 4th type of class; the psionic. This would include:

- Psions (similar in function to wizard enchantment-based archmage with several untyped/force abilities)
- Wilders (like psions, but specced more for untyped/force damage than CC)
- Psychic Warrior (similar to a paladin, but with 'powers' instead of 'divine spells')
- Psychic Blade (similar to a rogue assassin that can conjure a force burst short sword and minor powers)

Psions would be just as difficult to implement into the game as Monks were, if not more so because both powers and power resistance would need to be added to the game. In some versions of D&D, Monks are considered a psionic class because of their ki abilities, which makes me further believe that Psion will be the new class.

Rakian_Knight
07-16-2011, 11:47 AM
Psion and Artificer are two entirely different ways of playing. In current game terms (not PnP) the Artificer is like a bard spellsinger with a rogue splash with naturally high crafting skills, while a Psion is like a wizard archmage specced heavily into enchantment with some force abilities. One deals with infusions given to others, the other deals with augments given to themselves. One deals with the physical and the other deals with the metaphysical; the two classes can't be more different.


On a side note, if they add Psions, then you know Wilders will soon follow as a class, later on. Psions and Wilders are like Wizards and Sorcerers or Cleric and Favored Souls. You can't have one without the other.

In fact, this makes me think even more that the new class is psionic-based. I mean, we have three main categories; melee (Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Monk), spellcasters (Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Favored Soul), and specialists (Rogue, Ranger, Bard, and anything like an Artificer, Druid, or Hexblade would fit into this spot). Now, in D&D terms, there is a 4th type of class; the psionic. This would include:

- Psions (similar in function to wizard enchantment-based archmage with several untyped/force abilities)
- Wilders (like psions, but specced more for untyped/force damage than CC)
- Psychic Warrior (similar to a paladin, but with 'powers' instead of 'divine spells')
- Psychic Blade (similar to a rogue assassin that can conjure a force burst short sword and minor powers)

Psions would be just as difficult to implement into the game as Monks were, if not more so because both powers and power resistance would need to be added to the game. In some versions of D&D, Monks are considered a psionic class because of their ki abilities, which makes me further believe that Psion will be the new class.

I do have to agree with you on the psionics being a forth category in the character creation screen and I hope they would expand on the "inspired" and "quori" (spelling?) before introducing them. However, the next class looks to be more of a specialist (giving each of the three categories, four choices.)

Maelodic
07-16-2011, 02:51 PM
I think you're all wrong.

Witchalok is definitely the new class. No question in my mind.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/preview_witchalok.pdf

Oracle_Gil
07-17-2011, 03:53 PM
Ok, if its just speculation then....

1) Artificer creates a trinket. Equpping it on other player will transfer 50% of damage recieved by artificer to other player, but rest 50% is coveted to positive energy which heals the other play with delay. However there are limited charges before trinket breaks.

2) Artificer can give proficiencies... armor and weapons. All sorcerers become swordmages without multiclassing.

3) Everyone gives artificer a scroll, divine or arcane. Artificer learns it consuming scroll, but forgets it after he dies or completes the quest. So a raise dead with firewall.

4) Artificer makes can give +2 exceptional bonus to hit which stacks with all other bonuses.

5) Artificer can change skin of armor for duration of a login session in game.

6) Artificer can create a ethereal shrine every 15 in game minutes(somewhat like soveriegn host heal) which remains for 5 minutes.

People now post on forums saying artificer is OP.
Everyone starts to play artificer.
Before game breaks, artificer is nerfed to rogue with bard songs.

Zachski
07-21-2011, 09:55 PM
Actually, I had an idea for how Artificer could work in a unique way that brings something new to the game.

Basically, creating constructs that do situational things, but don't act like pets. More like something you toss down for one battle and then scrap to regain most of the materials used to make it.

Assuming that materials is a new bar used by artificers instead of spell points.

Like, for example...

Watcher - Slap down a stationary construct that automatically casts offensive spells at enemies or beneficial spells at allies that approach. Casting spells utilizes the Watcher's material strength and decreases it, meaning that the longer you have the construct out, the less materials you regain from deconstructing it. Metamagics increase the material cost to make this construct.

Lamp - An advanced version of the watcher that follows the Artificer, but costs more materials to make. Works similarly to the Archon that AoV gets. Can also provide beneficial effects to allies. Metamagics increase the material cost to make this construct.

Stalker - Once again, similar to the Archon that AoV gets, except it attaches to the enemy instead, and targets the enemy and its allies, or if it's a positive benefit, any of you or your allies that are standing near. Stacks with the Lamp when the two intermingle. It can be targeted and destroyed by the enemy, however. Killing the enemy its attached to should probably auto-scrap it, returning the materials to the Artificer. Metamagics increase the material cost to make this construct.

Spell Gun - Creates a weapon that functions much like a wand, auto-equipping it to the Artificer's right hand. Said gun is affected by metamagics, which consume its charges faster. Is the only one whose creation cost does not increase with active metamagics, since those affect the charges instead.

Artificer starts out knowing how to make a spell gun. Artificer has to remake the gun to change the spell in it, which has a discount based on how many charges you have left. Next the Artificer learns how to make the Watcher. Then the Lamp. Then the Stalker. There can be one of each construct per Artificer at a time.

Types of enhancements that the Artificer gets involve increasing elemental damage for the various stuff the artificer uses, all of the wand/scroll enhancements INCLUDING a new one that raises the spell level of the wands and scrolls being used.

Other enhancements include stuff that increases the health of the watcher, makes the lamp act slightly more often, and makes the stalker gain less aggro.

wemery73
08-04-2011, 08:19 AM
It all sounds good.. with u11 around the corner we will see..

Aesop
08-08-2011, 02:11 PM
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/75635/Turbine_Unveils_Biggest_Update_of_the_Year_for_Dun geons_Dragons_Onlinetrade.php


A blend of Rogue and Arcane classes, the Artificer uses specially created weapons and mechanical pets to challenge their foes

BOOM!!!

did I call it or what Post #6

richieelias27
08-08-2011, 03:30 PM
Ugh... a whole entire world of classes ready to be introduced to the game and they go with a pet focused artificer. I think I'm going to be physically ill.

xtchizobr
08-08-2011, 07:27 PM
I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO.

spoke too soon, apparently.

gloopygloop
08-08-2011, 08:11 PM
I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO.

If you change the "will" to "should", then Memnir's post is still valid.

EpiKagEMO
08-09-2011, 02:10 AM
i dont mind the new class, as long as they dont be noobs and die all over the place and fulfill the job they do. it takes skill using that much clickies. it might be fun mixing into :3
if they out dps everyone in the party, melee speced and sorcs, they need to be nerfed. if they get kills right below the dps, it should be just fine.
i cant wait to see what they bring to the party.

kothar11
08-09-2011, 02:13 AM
Ugh... a whole entire world of classes ready to be introduced to the game and they go with a pet focused artificer. I think I'm going to be physically ill.

Thank you. was thinking the same thing

richieelias27
08-09-2011, 09:41 AM
I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO.

spoke too soon, apparently.


Haha, that depends entirely on your definition of the word "playable"

I'll refrain from such a harsh judgement of the class since they have not released any details, but the outlook is not good in my opinion...

I mean... blend of Rogue and Arcane... wiz18/rogue2 does that perfectly already.

That said, I'm sure theyll be a wonderful alternative for completely new players without access to any gear or +5 tools.

The pet part is worthless unless they gave it a control bar and a significant boost over every other pet currently in-game.

Memnir
08-09-2011, 09:44 AM
I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO....Ooops.
Hope my crystal ball is still under warranty. It seems to be on the fritz. :)

Truga
08-09-2011, 09:49 AM
...Ooops.
Hope my crystal ball is still under warranty. It seems to be on the fritz. :)

Frankly, I thought that too when they released Cannith Crafting thingy. Now I'm very intrigued in how they are going to play!

Hendrik
08-09-2011, 09:56 AM
...Ooops.
Hope my crystal ball is still under warranty. It seems to be on the fritz. :)

/poke

Open mouth, insert foot.

:p

Zachski
08-10-2011, 11:36 PM
A... pet focused class?

Those pets had better be good, otherwise I'm going to be upset at the waste of space.

Roguish_Existence
08-11-2011, 09:39 PM
What a joke. Can I have something cool like a druid that shapeshifts into a dragon please? ;P

Aashrym
08-11-2011, 09:47 PM
So many doubters out there. :P

The pets look like they will have command functions and enhancements. Pets are on top of a lot of buffs, trap skills, and UMD.

Looks good to me so far, but I'll still hold my final opinion until we have more details. ;)

janave
08-13-2011, 02:39 AM
Seems like an epic version of harry potter meets the pip-boy -.-

Buggss
08-13-2011, 02:48 AM
...Ooops.
Hope my crystal ball is still under warranty. It seems to be on the fritz. :)

I'm also going to suggest a change from will to should.

Very unimpressed so far... :(

Alabore
08-13-2011, 05:05 AM
...Ooops.
Hope my crystal ball is still under warranty. It seems to be on the fritz. :)

Sigh...

:rolleyes:

...

Please, have +1 rep cookie.
It's on the house.

fatherpirate
08-15-2011, 11:40 PM
What is an Artificer ?
--- well it is a crafting class....wrong

It is a JOAT pet class.
Jack of all trades- master of none, pet based class.

They can throw buffs, but not as good as a pure caster
They can deal with traps and such, but not as good as a rogue
With medium armor and off hand 'gun' that adds damage to a held weapon, they can fight, but not as good
as a melee class.

They do a little of everything, thier crafting bonus is very minor.

So, what makes them special ?

The Dog.

It can be called in public (you have to do that to have the class trainer change its training)
It levels with the player...that is significant
It can be customized
It will most likely be stay summoned even if you summon a regular pet..like PM and thier undead.
It is what separates them from all other classes...even PM whom can't customize undead

Artificer in a nutshell

InvadeNormandy
08-16-2011, 10:12 AM
Wow, looots of groans and negativity over the class eh? Lots of min max complaints.... in a game where most people just run at the boss and overkill it to death :P

You have offhand rune arms which are basically megaman arm cannons that let you pop off a variety of varying ranged damage with a charge, and adds damage to your mainhand weapon (Melee or Light Repeater, quite a potent effect with a repeater) the runearms also add stats.

You can infuse people with strange and borderline wonderous effects and I bet you good money infuse yourself as well (And one of the infusions makes int your damage stat, very interesting notion regarding wizards there... Eldritch knight possible with a Artificer at your side?)

And if the wiki is correct with it's spectulation, a haste infusion that sticks to your armor and doesn't wear off.

And apparently the most important... ALL OF THESE MECHANICS SOUND FUN! Not another sterile loveless "Okay hit this rotatation/hold right click" boring mess to play.

jhypsyshah
08-16-2011, 01:58 PM
[QUOTE=InvadeNormandy;3998000]Wow, looots of groans and negativity over the class eh? Lots of min max complaints.... in a game where most people just run at the boss and overkill it to death :P

You have offhand rune arms which are basically megaman arm cannons that let you pop off a variety of varying ranged damage with a charge, and adds damage to your mainhand weapon (Melee or Light Repeater, quite a potent effect with a repeater) the runearms also add stats.

QUOTE]

Dig, I was curious about how it might work out with repeaters..

budalic
08-16-2011, 02:06 PM
A... pet focused class?

Those pets had better be good, otherwise I'm going to be upset at the waste of space.

Yeah, I hoped Artificer will be very cool UMD-focused class. Pets and Rune-cannon? Meh.

EDIT: And I was rather hopeful we'll get artificer. I guess I should watch what I wish... you may never know what Turbine will make out of it.

Aashrym
08-16-2011, 03:57 PM
What is an Artificer ?
--- well it is a crafting class....wrong

It is a JOAT pet class.
Jack of all trades- master of none, pet based class.

They can throw buffs, but not as good as a pure caster
They can deal with traps and such, but not as good as a rogue
With medium armor and off hand 'gun' that adds damage to a held weapon, they can fight, but not as good
as a melee class.

They do a little of everything, thier crafting bonus is very minor.

So, what makes them special ?

The Dog.

It can be called in public (you have to do that to have the class trainer change its training)
It levels with the player...that is significant
It can be customized
It will most likely be stay summoned even if you summon a regular pet..like PM and thier undead.
It is what separates them from all other classes...even PM whom can't customize undead

Artificer in a nutshell

Why would you assume rogues are better at traps or casters have better buffs.? INT based casting has already demonstrated great synergy with trap-skills, and buffing is one of the best features from PnP. Just sayin'. ;)

Aesop
08-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Why would you assume rogues are better at traps or casters have better buffs.? INT based casting has already demonstrated great synergy with trap-skills, and buffing is one of the best features from PnP. Just sayin'. ;)

No Improved Evasion for starters. Possibly no Spot skill either, won;t know this til we see a release note.

Aesop

Aashrym
08-16-2011, 05:26 PM
No Improved Evasion for starters. Possibly no Spot skill either, won;t know this til we see a release note.

Aesop

Evasion doesn't make them worse at dealing with traps; it makes them worse at dealing with ignoring traps while running through. I have a hard time imagining not giving them a spot skill based on the way DDO handles traps but that is less relevant if one already knows where the trap is. That irrelevancy is also why I wouldn't be concerned just adding spot to the skill list.

We'll see tomorrow tho. ;)

Aesop
08-16-2011, 05:31 PM
Evasion doesn't make them worse at dealing with traps; it makes them worse at dealing with ignoring traps while running through. I have a hard time imagining not giving them a spot skill based on the way DDO handles traps but that is less relevant if one already knows where the trap is. That irrelevancy is also why I wouldn't be concerned just adding spot to the skill list.

We'll see tomorrow tho. ;)

There are occasional traps that you have to stand in to disarm... I don't foresee Art sitting there for it :)

Aashrym
08-16-2011, 05:52 PM
There are occasional traps that you have to stand in to disarm... I don't foresee Art sitting there for it :)

This is true.

Perhaps it should be pointed out in the rogues are useless now threads, although splashing levels of monk or rogue helps as long as the player takes insightful reflexes.

Zachski
08-16-2011, 09:09 PM
Wow, looots of groans and negativity over the class eh? Lots of min max complaints.... in a game where most people just run at the boss and overkill it to death :P

You have offhand rune arms which are basically megaman arm cannons that let you pop off a variety of varying ranged damage with a charge, and adds damage to your mainhand weapon (Melee or Light Repeater, quite a potent effect with a repeater) the runearms also add stats.

You can infuse people with strange and borderline wonderous effects and I bet you good money infuse yourself as well (And one of the infusions makes int your damage stat, very interesting notion regarding wizards there... Eldritch knight possible with a Artificer at your side?)

And if the wiki is correct with it's spectulation, a haste infusion that sticks to your armor and doesn't wear off.

And apparently the most important... ALL OF THESE MECHANICS SOUND FUN! Not another sterile loveless "Okay hit this rotatation/hold right click" boring mess to play.

Those mechanics sound fun? Odd, they sound rather boring to me, and indeed seem like they could easily become a "Hit this rotation/hold left click" class, only buff-focused instead of nuke focused, and you might have to hold one button longer.

The rune arms will either be decent or badly balanced, what with the charging mechanic.

The buffs might be interesting, but this also means that UMD Sorcerers and Bards will be able to replace Artificers somewhat by popping those scrolls onto allies.

Pet AI has been legendarily horrendous. The dog can receive whatever training it wishes, but unless they fix pathing and/or give the player the ability to finely control the dog, it will be more of a burden than an asset.

Personally, I think a Psion would've been better, as the ability to directly control the power level of your psionic abilities adds a bit more strategy to the game. I'm actually still very disappointed that they chose Artificer.

Asmodeus451
08-16-2011, 11:39 PM
Pet AI has been legendarily horrendous. The dog can receive whatever training it wishes, but unless they fix pathing and/or give the player the ability to finely control the dog, it will be more of a burden than an asset.


Devs have already stated that Arti Pets will have a control ber "similar" to hirelings.

while that wont fix any AI issues they may have, it will at least allow you to park them somewhere they wont get in the way. ;)

on topic: i can see myself using something like this in combat:

target far-off enemy, fire off a quick burst with Repeater. switch to melee weapon and charge Rune Arm while enemy closes in. when enemy is in range, fire Rune Arm. Close with enemy and finish off with melee.

Artagon
08-17-2011, 12:11 AM
on topic: i can see myself using something like this in combat:

target far-off enemy, fire off a quick burst with Repeater. switch to melee weapon and charge Rune Arm while enemy closes in. when enemy is in range, fire Rune Arm. Close with enemy and finish off with melee.

Yeah, I don't really see the need to even use the repeater if you're gonna have good enough melee to finish them off. I'm making my arti into a melee juggernaut, I want one of the arm cannons that rapid fires at full charge so that I can stand back, aim, charge it up, and blast the snot out of a monster. I'll then pew pew him and his buddies till they get to me and finish em all off with my dwarven axe and blade barrier AoE

budalic
08-17-2011, 02:37 AM
Personally, I think a Psion would've been better, as the ability to directly control the power level of your psionic abilities adds a bit more strategy to the game. I'm actually still very disappointed that they chose Artificer.

Even though Artificer that got implemented isn't really that much to my liking (I will still buy it and play it, though... I like to play casters and Artificer is better than rolling another divine or arcane), Psion would actually dissapoint me more. Psion in PnP had worse system than casters - only thing that was effective was spamming best ability for that particular situation at max augment level. Can you see connection between that and SP system we currently have in DDO?

The only thing Psion would get us is new spell list - and only mechanic I see that is currently better on psionic classes than arcanes are stat debuffs. Xcept, you know, stat debuffs aren't really that effective in epics. New buffs, too, which is thing Artificer does in more interesting way, anyway. There are a lot of classes I'd rather see before Psions - starting with Druids, of course.

That being said, according to some pretty reliable rumors, Psions will be in game soon. And I think I'll play them too (new shiny pseudo-caster!), unfortunately. Poor will saves vs. new shiny.

Igrovin
08-17-2011, 01:31 PM
Personally, I hope that the arti is about just as good as a rogue when dealing with traps/locks. At least has evasion and the ability to spot traps.. otherwise.. it would very much suck.

Cause like in terms of fighting, Barb, Fighter, Paladin and Ranger are all good at fighting. (and monk?)
In terms of healing, Cleric and Favored Soul, followed by Bard and Paladin. Sorc/Wiz for warforged.
Crowd Control, Bard, Cleric, Sorc/Wiz, Favored Soul
Buffing, Bard, Paladin, Cleric/FS, Sorc/Wiz,
In terms of dealing with traps/locks.. Rogue. Only.

However the people who are sad that its not a druid..

Rejoice.. This could mean that Rangers are getting a pet soon, and that they are "half-way done" with druids. (They can at least get animal companions)

budalic
08-18-2011, 05:41 AM
Rejoice.. This could mean that Rangers are getting a pet soon, and that they are "half-way done" with druids. (They can at least get animal companions)

I was all for this till someone on lamma forums posted they'd name their companion Guenwyar or something similar. **** rangers.