View Full Version : Rogue Which is better?

06-03-2011, 12:24 PM
38 standing str Horc (19* +5 lvls + 2 tome +7 item +3 exceptional +2 enhancement), or 33 standing str ( 16 + 5 lvls + 2 tome + 7 item +3 exceptional) halfling with cunning/guile IV? (Khopesh str builds)

did not go 20 cause I dont ahve any +3 or 4 epic gear or a +3 tome and I don't plan on staying at 20 very long. the 19 has me ending at an even number of 38 and ill just drink rage pots and be at 40 all the time.

TRing into a rogue (4th life) and cant decide on race.

Human is also looking very nice, only 2 str less than horc and I can fit in OTWF.

At the moment I am leaning towards Horc, but im not 100% convinced.

Horc: Much higher str and PA

Halfling: Cunnig/guile IV but much less str

Human: Extra feat, only 2 less str, human

WF: Lots more hps (322 to ~270), lower str than human, non fleshy healing.

I am conflicted. All builds will be assassin III, full subtle backstabbing and haste boost IV. Help me choose a race for my rogue life.

06-03-2011, 12:34 PM
Max Cunning & Guile is +4 to-hit when flanking +8 SA dmg; HO is +6 STR (vs halfling) +3 PA enhs which works out to be +6 to all dmg (extra STR negates extra penalty from HO PA). But the real downside to Cunning & Guile is maxing it out costs 20 APs; good luck squeezing that in on top of Assassin pre-reqs, max Haste Boost, Subtle Backstabbing, and anything else you want. Whereas HO STR + PA enhs is only 12 APs, leaving you pts for, say, HO Extra Action Boost.

I say play with the builder some and see what you can squeeze in with each race. What sounds good in theory may not work out in practice.

06-03-2011, 12:37 PM
Me da Horc maks holes bigga den head of halfling but me da Horc ned moar eq.. eci.. stuff to make decent skills and use glittering shiny. But holes bigga!

tc(onfusing);dr: Half-Orcs are the kings of damage. They need more careful treatise with their lower int and cha but if you have the equipment to overcome that and don't care for the aesthetics of a H-Orc (or actually like it) they are the optimized choice for raw damage output. Extra action boost is a huge part of that so this might or might not be true for some circumstances like short battles against foes with low/zero fort (those circumstances favor halflings)

06-03-2011, 12:43 PM
21(base+lvl's)+2tome+6item+2exceptional+1exception al=32 leaving room for 16/16/12/8/8 for other base stats

Horc 25(base+lvls's)+2T+6I+2Enh+2Exp+1Exp=38

so your math is off by1 and well how would you distribute your other stats Halfing comes up w/ more SA more skills or HP less base DPS

06-03-2011, 12:59 PM
corrected on op, 33 standing str actually. But 5 less than Horc.

06-03-2011, 01:12 PM
for what it's worth, my halfling has the points for up to tier 3 of both halfling sneak attack lines.

anyways, i think either is perfectly viable.

06-03-2011, 01:19 PM
Halfling for better SA damage on lesser fort mobs.

hOrc for higher damage on high fort mobs, and higher to-hit on those mobs as well.

06-03-2011, 02:34 PM
I could be wrong, since I'm wrong about alot of things in this game, but I think that a half-orc will do more damage at all times, even against 0 fort mobs.

Assuming that you'd be using Kopeshes your average damage per hit from the H-O strenght and power attack enhancements would be:

(15x6+4x(6x3))/20 = 8,1 damage increase per hit

While the guile would give you 8 per hit, but since you miss on 1s it would be even lower:

(19x8)/20= 7,6 damage increase per hit.

And since you also get extra action boost which should increase the H-Os DPS even further there seem too be a clear winner DPS wise.

06-03-2011, 02:41 PM
On SA normal hits, halflings do more damage (+3 to-hit/+6 damage from cunning/guile III gives more than Horc Str bonus), but Horcs get more benefits from critics because their higher Str and their Extra PA is multiplied on a critic, while guile damage isn't. On the other side, SA damage egualy to both main hand and off hand attacks.
Horcs can also take low cost additional action boosts, resulting in a higher dps if the fight lasts more than 5-6 haste boosts.
However, the higher or slightly higher (depending if Horc takes Extra PA) to-hit could end up with more dps for the halfling if you don't hit on a 2.
Overall, both are more or less on-par, horcs being a bit better on 50% fort opponents and halfling a bit better on 0% fort opponents.

06-03-2011, 03:31 PM
On the other side, SA damage egualy to both main hand and off hand attacks.

I had no idea that only half the strenght mod could be added too the off hand weapon... I geuss it would look more like this then:

(15x6+4x6x3)/20+((15x4.5+4x4.5x3)x0.8)/20 = 12,96 average damage per hit with the main hand (counting the off hand procs as well too every hit) for the H-O.

(19x8/20+19x8x0.8)/20 = 13,68 average damage per hit with the main hand (counting the off hand procs as well too every hit) for the halfling guile, with all 4 enhancements that is.

That should be about right then... Aww I was wrong again :/