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Indel_Eventine
06-03-2011, 08:32 AM
I have a 9th level WF assassin I am considering restarting (I wanted the name to be TDCCC, but Turbine, in its finite wisdom, doesn't allow all caps, so it is Tdccc which doesnt look like a roman numeral at all...). I like the WF stuff, but the Drow Int and Cha at a relatively minor loss to Con seems a good fit for an assassin.

What do you think?

Truga
06-03-2011, 09:30 AM
I have a 9th level WF assassin I am considering restarting (I wanted the name to be TDCCC, but Turbine, in its finite wisdom, doesn't allow all caps, so it is Tdccc which doesnt look like a roman numeral at all...). I like the WF stuff, but the Drow Int and Cha at a relatively minor loss to Con seems a good fit for an assassin.

What do you think?

I, too, am having this problem. Which will (probably) end with me having both.

I have a level 20 drow rogue, and though she's a bit gimped (my first character that reached level 10), the high int and cha are awesome. I have a sea of skill points, and high UMD and assassinate DC. I'll TR her to a 30 point drow and pour 6 points in all stats except wis, which will end up as 14 16 12 16 8 16. Tons of skill points, UMD, and only 3 points less damage than a WF with maxed str per hit. (2 from not having 18 str, 3 from warforged PA enhancements -2 from rapier enhancements).

On the other hand, a WF will easily hit 500 hp, and might even push 600, which is tons when you include high fort saves and improved evasion. UMD and reflex saves will be a couple points lower though, as will assassinate DC. And immunities, and 125% fort and can repair yourself while leveling towards assassin 2 etc. :P

Edit: Spell resistance also pretty much makes up for WF immunities in most quests. I don't remember when was the last time I got held in non-elite.

Gkar
06-03-2011, 09:38 AM
It's more than a little bit of con. You lose the con, plus the hp enhancements.

One of my first characters in 2006 was a drow rogue, its a weak choice if you have 32 pt builds available. Go human (+feat, +skill points, +toughness enhancements, +1 to any 2 stats), or stay WF (+con, +toughness, +immunities), or halfling (+sneak damage)

Now if you don't have 32 pt builds, drow may be useful.

Truga
06-03-2011, 09:41 AM
It's more than a little bit of con. You lose the con, plus the hp enhancements.

One of my first characters in 2006 was a drow rogue, its a weak choice if you have 32 pt builds available. Go human (+feat, +skill points, +toughness enhancements, +1 to any 2 stats), or stay WF (+con, +toughness, +immunities), or halfling (+sneak damage)

You would use 3-7 AP for 10-20 extra HP? I sure wouldn't :P

Drow is never a weak choice if you build it right. Especially on a rogue, where 28 points is equivalent to a 34 point build if you don't go min/max sneak damage and add in something else.

Gkar
06-03-2011, 09:48 AM
You would use 3-7 AP for 10-20 extra HP? I sure wouldn't :P

Drow is never a weak choice if you build it right. Especially on a rogue, where 28 points is equivalent to a 34 point build if you don't go min/max sneak damage and add in something else.

Where you comming up with that number?

6AP gets you 30HP for the first 3 levels of WF racial.

Assassins don't tend to be enhancement starved in my experience.

If you really want to push it, 10AP moe would get you another 30 HP (+2 con, +10 enhancment), but I might not bother with that.

Just how many HP does your rogue have? (Edit: nm, just looked...see that's my point, sub 350hp on a L20 is not good). Also the human +1 to 2 stats wouldn't have left you with useless stray odd stats like you have on your capped rogue.

And I find it currious you say you shouldn't maximzing for your damage - you aren't an assassin if you aren't killing things.

vVAnjilaVv
06-03-2011, 09:56 AM
I always find it quite irritating that people make drows out to be a severely gimpy race.

They aren't at all, and the passive SR comes into play a lot if you solo a decent amount.

The real problem is compared to all the other races both drows and elves are lacking and should get a bump in overall racial abilities.

As it stands now...elves are basically only good for a wizard who wants max Spell Pen or an Arcane Archer.....Drows are a good choice for TWF Paladins and Tempests if you're gonna use Rapiers and/or Shortswords.

The new shuriken free feat while kind of cool is a slap in the face for actual drow love development.

Basically almost every other build you're better off with one of the other races, in some cases a 28 point build that is non drow is better than the four extra stat points you would get by going drow.

All that being said a drow in the hands of a good player can still hold their own no matter what class you are playing.

Krago
06-03-2011, 09:57 AM
You would use 3-7 AP for 10-20 extra HP? I sure wouldn't :P

Drow is never a weak choice if you build it right. Especially on a rogue, where 28 points is equivalent to a 34 point build if you don't go min/max sneak damage and add in something else.

By not going pure rogue, you give up 5d6 sneak damage and a +1 DC to Assassinate. Whatever you splash better be able to make up the damage you are trading off, or your rogue is not built for sneak damage and/or Assassinations which is fine.

For 3AP you net 20HP, an easy investment, unless you consider it also took a feat as well to open up the enhancement line, which meant you are leaving 40hp on the table.

Truga
06-03-2011, 10:17 AM
Where you comming up with that number?

6AP gets you 30HP for the first 3 levels of WF racial.

Assassins don't tend to be enhancement starved in my experience.

If you really want to push it, 10AP moe would get you another 30 HP (+2 con, +10 enhancment), but I might not bother with that.

Just how many HP does your rogue have? (Edit: nm, just looked...see that's my point, sub 350hp on a L20 is not good). Also the human +1 to 2 stats wouldn't have left you with useless stray odd stats like you have on your capped rogue.

And I find it currious you say you shouldn't maximzing for your damage - you aren't an assassin if you aren't killing things.

See, that's my point. That rogue is one of my first characters. I dumped con and str to take more dex (and it worked very well until level 14 or so). I don't have a +2 con tome. Once I get some more gear and TR, i'll be sitting at ~450 hp, when she hits 20. And will then slowly bring it up to ~500. I really don't need more than that on a pure rogue.

As for maximizing damage, 1-2 assassinate DC is 10% extra chance to instantly kill two non-red enemies every 15 seconds. Having higher UMD means I can scroll wands/heals earlier, and we all know dead people do no damage. Also means I don't need to switch gloves or necklace when heal scrolling at 20. etc. My WF rogue has 5 base UMD less than my drow, which is basically free 7fingered gloves.

And I really like the extra skill points from 2 free int too, though these are also available on a human.

Also, I don't have stray useless stats, our ship has +1 shrines, which is why I bought all +1 tomes I needed off auction (namely, str and con). +1 con and rage scroll puts me at 377 hp (Edit: Once my min2 HP item is finished, I'll hit >400 hp thanks to superior false life on my admiral's hat, which is now occupied by minos), which is bad, but not terrible. I can run shroud fine, and die less than some pugs I run with (I think I died twice in my 12 runs on this char, but both times we would have wiped anyway), which is good enough. After I cleanse my first GS item, and get 2x radiance rapiers, I'll TR into a proper build :P

On AP cost:
I get 20 HP on a drow from 3 APs.
If I went another race, I'd have to spend another 3 for an additional 10, and 7 for 20. That's what I meant.

Edit: Not saying other races aren't good. Just saying that drow has tons of going for it if you decide to spread stats out, and even more after you calculate in SR and rapier enhancements (which is why drow assassins are AP starved, 12 AP for +2 to hit and +2 to damage :P).

Indel_Eventine
06-03-2011, 11:29 AM
Thanks for the input. Actually considering TRing a lil gimped barb into a Drow Assassin