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zex95966
05-28-2011, 06:05 PM
I've always wanted to play an elf.

However, I could never find a good reason to... seems whatever it is I want to make, another race would work better.

So I'm asking for your help lol.

I'd like a build that is designed to suit an elf really well... That wouldn't work on another class better. Dex bonus? I look at halfling - cunning and guile more than makes up for the str hit which may not even be important if your running a caster for example.

Weapon proficiencies? dwarves get the same thing, and take a charisma hit - fighters, barbs, rangers, wizards, and rogues - none of those things need charisma, but they all need con...

that leaves their little roguish like bonuses, and their enhancements.
Rogues are already squishy... Dwarves get a search bonus too.
By being elf you do get to take AA - however with half elves, I don't see a reason not to make that instead.

That doesn't leave many ideas I think... AA favored soul..?

stille_nacht
05-28-2011, 06:18 PM
ftr 12/ rgr 6/ mnk 2

Kensai II arcane archer

ftr 18/rgr 1/wiz 1

Kensai III arcane archer, no evasion, no ram's might

Illiain
05-28-2011, 06:24 PM
With the new helplessness bonuses, high crit range weapons really shine more than crit multipliers. TWF rapier/scimi builds can deal out quite a lot of damage to stunned/helpless targets, and elves gain the same bonuses to those weapons as dwarves gain to DAxes.

Rogues aren't squishy if built well. My elven rogue will be in the 500 range, raid buffed, once I finish gearing up. Improved evasion and a high UMD (fireshield scrolls) will negate almost all splash damage from boss aoes, whereas barbs and fighters have to soak the full damage, so they require more hps. Granted rogues won't be tanking often, but they weren't designed to tank.

There's also a good combo with FvS Undying Court and Valenar Elves. Most go 18FvS/2monk take the TWF chain and can also raid heal. The full 4 toughness enhancements FvS get will also help offset their lower hps.

thegreatneil
05-28-2011, 06:31 PM
I tried to build a Fvs / AA.

Not even with a 17/2/1, (fvs / monk / fighter) could i get all the feats i wanted. (no PS, iPS)

Perhaps a Fvs 17 / Monk 3 (wss, long swords to stay centered)

Would have the best use of racial bonuses, evasion, and maybe a decent start for ac. (not sure, as all my toons ac is usually displacement.)

{think ill slap this together in the builder.}

zex95966
05-28-2011, 07:48 PM
ftr 12/ rgr 6/ mnk 2

Kensai II arcane archer

ftr 18/rgr 1/wiz 1

Kensai III arcane archer, no evasion, no ram's might

I've seen these, but Half-elf seems to work much better, with improved recovery, dille, and no con hit.

mournbladereigns
05-28-2011, 08:13 PM
I've always wanted to play an elf.

However, I could never find a good reason to... seems whatever it is I want to make, another race would work better.


See above. Also Kensai II Arcane archer with racial bonuses are cool. Its only 20 hps from the -2con.

Terebinthia
05-28-2011, 08:37 PM
I'm running my Barb TR life through as an elf (I made a bunch of greensteel falchions for the journey, because I liked how they looked, pre u9, where the crit range became more important again) and I'm liking how the Valenar is impacting it. Very hard to judge against anything else or even against itself right now (because it's at 12 holding 13, and it's a wacky 10 barb / 8 bard / 2 rogue build where all the bard and rogue levels are front loaded). But it seems fun so far.

Time will tell as to whether I'll get confidence to rage as the barb levels progress, or play it as a bad Warchanter - mostly the skill I think will come at almost cap with the balancing of short term arcane buffs plus the barb ranges....

Junts
05-28-2011, 08:41 PM
I've always wanted to play an elf.

However, I could never find a good reason to... seems whatever it is I want to make, another race would work better.

So I'm asking for your help lol.

I'd like a build that is designed to suit an elf really well... That wouldn't work on another class better. Dex bonus? I look at halfling - cunning and guile more than makes up for the str hit which may not even be important if your running a caster for example.

Weapon proficiencies? dwarves get the same thing, and take a charisma hit - fighters, barbs, rangers, wizards, and rogues - none of those things need charisma, but they all need con...

that leaves their little roguish like bonuses, and their enhancements.
Rogues are already squishy... Dwarves get a search bonus too.
By being elf you do get to take AA - however with half elves, I don't see a reason not to make that instead.

That doesn't leave many ideas I think... AA favored soul..?


18 favored soul / 2 monk

dual scimitars

Dawnsfire
05-28-2011, 08:43 PM
I have been very happy with Impaqt's Really good FvS (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=200561) build. I won't claim it is the best FvS but it fits my style very well.

stille_nacht
05-28-2011, 09:01 PM
I've seen these, but Half-elf seems to work much better, with improved recovery, dille, and no con hit.

not everyone owns it :P

Talon_Moonshadow
05-28-2011, 09:48 PM
1/2 Elves do take many of the reasons to play an Elf away... :(

Full AA without Rgr20.
Dragon Marks (Displacement)
Bow enhancements
LongSwordRapier Enhancements.
Scimitar/Falchion enhancements.
Spell Pen
Longsword/Rapier/Bow proficencies (Monk w/Longswords maybe?)

Stealth builds can make use of Spot/Listen and Hide enhancemente (w/Invis Dragon mark)

Clr/Pal/Fvs can res at lvl 6.

And they look great!

That's about all that comes to mind.
Maybe that will spark some ideas for ya.


(Longsword wielding Fr12/Rgr6/Mnk2 AA, with Displacement)

Elphvyra
05-29-2011, 10:46 AM
Take a good look at Wizard. With one of the U9 changes they've become much more powerful.... ;)

unbongwah
05-30-2011, 11:23 AM
(Longsword wielding Fr12/Rgr6/Mnk2 AA, with Displacement)
Apart from the "longsword" part, I've got one of those builds, actually (shocking, I know :rolleyes:):


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Female
(12 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 326
Spell Points: 175
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 17
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 17 20
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Originally I was going to go with scimitars for maximum elf flavor, but APs wind up pretty tight with the Extra DM enhs on top of Kensai & AA.

Solmage
05-30-2011, 01:33 PM
Take a good look at Wizard. With one of the U9 changes they've become much more powerful.... ;)

Elves now (finally) make pretty good wizards. I'd go palemaster to also add self healing. You'll have -1 to DCs vs drow but significantly better Spell Penetration.

Also, an elven fighter combo as proposed isn't BAD specially when you aim for at least 500 hps, and if you manage to squeeze in the displacement dragonmark feats.

Philibusta
05-30-2011, 01:50 PM
I've always wanted to play an elf.

However, I could never find a good reason to... seems whatever it is I want to make, another race would work better.

So I'm asking for your help lol.

Seems to me, you've already given a good enough reason to play an Elf.

After reading your post - and of course there's a chance I'm way off here - you seem to be maybe...a little bit...stuck on the fact that you have to play characters that are "the bestest most uberest ideal optimized min/max..."

Which, in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with. It's a playstyle (not mine lol, but it is one) that many people do go by.

But when thinking like that gets in the way of your actual enjoyment of the game (as it seems to be doing in this case), maybe you should think about altering your perceptions of just what can be a good character.

You said you've always wanted to play an Elf. Thats the best reason to play one. No other reason is needed.

Just because a race/class combo isn't the best combination someone has ever come up with, doesn't mean that race/class combo isn't viable.

tihocan
05-30-2011, 01:53 PM
The only class I can think of is a wizard, because you won't get higher spell pen with another race.
It's not obvious that an extra +3 spell pen (doubt you can afford +4) and a few SPs beats +1 DC though. But if you can convince yourself it does, go for it!

mindlessdrone1991
05-30-2011, 02:02 PM
Seems to me, you've already given a good enough reason to play an Elf.

After reading your post - and of course there's a chance I'm way off here - you seem to be maybe...a little bit...stuck on the fact that you have to play characters that are "the bestest most uberest ideal optimized min/max..."

Which, in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with. It's a playstyle (not mine lol, but it is one) that many people do go by.

But when thinking like that gets in the way of your actual enjoyment of the game (as it seems to be doing in this case), maybe you should think about altering your perceptions of just what can be a good character.

You said you've always wanted to play an Elf. Thats the best reason to play one. No other reason is needed.

Just because a race/class combo isn't the best combination someone has ever come up with, doesn't mean that race/class combo isn't viable.

^^^ This.

+1

zex95966
05-30-2011, 04:49 PM
The only class I can think of is a wizard, because you won't get higher spell pen with another race.
It's not obvious that an extra +3 spell pen (doubt you can afford +4) and a few SPs beats +1 DC though. But if you can convince yourself it does, go for it!

Thanks, that's exactly what i'm looking for... something that no other race can achieve - even a human using extra feat for spell pen won't match it later on.


Seems to me, you've already given a good enough reason to play an Elf.

After reading your post - and of course there's a chance I'm way off here - you seem to be maybe...a little bit...stuck on the fact that you have to play characters that are "the bestest most uberest ideal optimized min/max..."

Which, in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with. It's a playstyle (not mine lol, but it is one) that many people do go by.

But when thinking like that gets in the way of your actual enjoyment of the game (as it seems to be doing in this case), maybe you should think about altering your perceptions of just what can be a good character.

You said you've always wanted to play an Elf. Thats the best reason to play one. No other reason is needed.

Just because a race/class combo isn't the best combination someone has ever come up with, doesn't mean that race/class combo isn't viable.

I understand where your coming from - and agree. I'm a min-maxer for other reasons though... you will never see me farm for hours on end to get something to make myself marginally stronger.
However, because of that I try to make the most min/max character I can at creation so that later on I am not too far behind those that do spend all those hours doing the above. maybe even on even ground, if they didn't put as much effort in their characters creation.

Kaldais
05-31-2011, 03:20 PM
Elves always look pretty.

Cold_Stele
05-31-2011, 03:46 PM
Seems to me, you've already given a good enough reason to play an Elf.

After reading your post - and of course there's a chance I'm way off here - you seem to be maybe...a little bit...stuck on the fact that you have to play characters that are "the bestest most uberest ideal optimized min/max..."

Which, in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with. It's a playstyle (not mine lol, but it is one) that many people do go by.

But when thinking like that gets in the way of your actual enjoyment of the game (as it seems to be doing in this case), maybe you should think about altering your perceptions of just what can be a good character.

You said you've always wanted to play an Elf. Thats the best reason to play one. No other reason is needed.

Just because a race/class combo isn't the best combination someone has ever come up with, doesn't mean that race/class combo isn't viable.

A HOrc Blitz hits for 10.5 pts damage more per swing with a Falchion and has 3 more precious Haste Boosts/Power Surges than an Elf Blitz.

With a non-Elf weapon like SOS then HOrc hits for 14.5 more points per swing.

In pnp the difference is 1.5 points.

It's not the OP's fault that he's cautious about choosing a non-optimum race, DDO's enhancement system is so out of touch with pnp that some races are positively gimped in comparison to others.

Illiain
05-31-2011, 03:47 PM
Thanks, that's exactly what i'm looking for... something that no other race can achieve - even a human using extra feat for spell pen won't match it later on.


Many people have said it already, but it should be said again.

18FvS/2monk

Feats: GTWF, Toughness, PA, IC:Slash, Quicken, Maximize, Emp Healing
(or you can stick with Min2's and drop IC:Slash for Empower to beef up your Dots/BB/archon or extend to help melee buffs)

As an elf, you can be good at all 3 aspects of the class. Helves could be too tempted to spend AP on increasing their dilly, but as an elf, you can get the full +9% crit and +40% damage on the smiting and healing lines, along with the +2hit/+4damage with scimitars from race/class enhancements and the AoV PrE.

If a class with 500+hps, 30+ saves, and evasion is too squishy for you, then I really can't say what would be good other than just stick with a Barb and a backup account for the healbot.

Your BB's will destroy groups, DoT a range/caster and melee something else. Then heal yourself on top, and can do perfectly well raid healing.

unbongwah
05-31-2011, 03:57 PM
I'm a min-maxer for other reasons though... you will never see me farm for hours on end to get something to make myself marginally stronger.
However, because of that I try to make the most min/max character I can at creation so that later on I am not too far behind those that do spend all those hours doing the above.
Pure elf Pale Master focused on max Spell Penetration is the first idea which comes to mind. Here's a hasty first draft:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
(20 Wizard)
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 1731
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 6
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 14
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 18 28
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 17 (Wizard)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Master of Magic
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum III
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
Enhancement: Deadly Ice II
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics I
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation V
Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Force Manipulation II
Enhancement: Force Manipulation III
Enhancement: Force Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Force Manipulation V
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VII
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Vampire
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith


Base Spell Pen at lvl 20 should be 20 (wiz lvls) + 4 (Spell Pen & GSP feats) + 4 (elven Arcanum enhs) + 3 (Spell Pen wiz enhs) = 31.

Fetchi
05-31-2011, 04:01 PM
The elf is pretty much the worst race in DDO right now. As you pointed out, any other race would be better for just about any build with the exception of maybe an Arcane Archer or Wizard.

The race needs a boost in a big way.

The (+) to Dex is pointless since Dex means nothing in this game. AC, pfft. To-hit with a ranged weapon is the usual goal, but most min/maxers are going for Str builds for their archers with no problems with to-hit.

The (-) to Con hurts the most, even if it is only marginal in the end.

I have an elven favored soul, bard, sorcerer, ranger, and 12fighter/6ranger/2rogue khopesh kensei. I will tell you its the player not the race or build that make it work. I have plenty of min/maxed builds and my elves are not far behind in anything that would be detrimental to play in this game.

You'll find that the game is very easy, even the end game, that min/maxxing really isn't needed.

zex95966
05-31-2011, 04:06 PM
Pure elf Pale Master focused on max Spell Penetration is the first idea which comes to mind. Here's a hasty first draft:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
(20 Wizard)
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 1731
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 6
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 14
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 18 28
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 17 (Wizard)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Master of Magic
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum III
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
Enhancement: Deadly Ice II
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics I
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation V
Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Force Manipulation II
Enhancement: Force Manipulation III
Enhancement: Force Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Force Manipulation V
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VII
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Vampire
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith


Base Spell Pen at lvl 20 should be 20 (wiz lvls) + 4 (Spell Pen & GSP feats) + 4 (elven Arcanum enhs) + 3 (Spell Pen wiz enhs) = 31.

thanks, I already made one in the planner myself, only difference is instead of spell pen and greater spell pen feats, I took enchant and greater enchant focus.

the 2 mo/18 soul build looks good as well, only reason I'm not making it, is because I already am making the soul survivor - so might as well do something entirely different.

Chai
05-31-2011, 04:07 PM
18/2 Ranger/Fighter. Arcane Archer, scimitar enhancements. Middle of the road but solid melee DPS on FE, and can be good if geared right. Crazy burst damage with manyshot.

Excellent survivability. I have been the one of the few people left standing in TOD part 1 when things go belly up quite a few times, when all the full ****** DPS with no self healing solutions are dead. One metamagic feat + a few Ranger devotion enhancements + some healing amp = not having to wait for the healer to heal you if you need to be topped while floating back toward the fight. Forget about heal scrolls. Get yourself a Mysterious Bauble. Your blue bar is your friend.

Raithe
05-31-2011, 04:15 PM
However, because of that I try to make the most min/max character I can at creation so that later on I am not too far behind those that do spend all those hours doing the above. maybe even on even ground, if they didn't put as much effort in their characters creation.

I'm afraid I don't believe what you wrote here.

There is no way you are ever going to be near the best of something in DDO if you are unwilling to grind. Any similar character with multiple past lives as a wizard or favored soul will have better spell penetration, whether or not they are elf. Those willing to grind will also have epic items that increase their spell penetration for useful high level spells beyond that which is commonly available. I don't think you are really an anti-grind min/maxer, and I doubt that such a person even exists.

You also seem to have come to the erroneous conclusion that narrowly focused characters are superior to generalists. Elves make good rangers, rogues, and bards (and wizard multi-classes) because of correlations in the abilities of the race and the features of such classes. Narrowly focused rangers, rogues, and bards are inferior characters, however. The term "specialist" used for the class category name actually is referring to the ability of these classes to specialize in a broad number of areas, with lots of skill points and class attributes. They are generalists.

Elves have some good dragonmarks. They have high invulnerability to enchantment spells and improved perception. They have an advantage in dexterity and a disadvantage in constitution. They have bonuses and proficiencies with using bows and rapiers. If your character is going to utilize many of these features concurrently during gameplay, then your character perhaps should be an elf.

unbongwah
05-31-2011, 04:39 PM
thanks, I already made one in the planner myself, only difference is instead of spell pen and greater spell pen feats, I took enchant and greater enchant focus.
If you look, you'll see I have SF & GSF Enchantment as well as Spell Pen & Greater Spell Pen, so our builds must differ in some other way.

18/2 Ranger/Fighter. Arcane Archer, scimitar enhancements. Middle of the road but solid melee DPS on FE, and can be good if geared right. Crazy burst damage with manyshot.
I've made a couple of AA rgr 18 / ftr 2 builds (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=307768), but I'm still not sure giving up the rgr capstone is worth two feats + Haste Boost I + 1 STR enh + 14 HPs.

Chai
05-31-2011, 05:21 PM
I've made a couple of AA rgr 18 / ftr 2 builds (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=307768), but I'm still not sure giving up the rgr capstone is worth two feats + Haste Boost I + 1 STR enh + 14 HPs.

The capstone is not 25% - its been tested at ~15% - same as the 5 haste boosts you get for going fighter 1. Get some black dragonhide armor or the TOD set, and you are breaking even on archery each time you burst. (yeap they stack multiplicitively and not additively but its very close) The plus is that you can choose to use that burst on melee -or- ranged at your option. Being able to burst melee clears close trash. Being able to burst range clears far trash. Bursting manyshot with 10% alac + haste + fighter boost clears all trash, heh.

Using the two combat feats from fighter for two of your actual combat feats allows you to pick up either empower healing or maximize. Throw down on a couple ranger devotion enhancements, and now you have a sweet baby cure serious that hits for 150+. Toss in some healing amp and youre good to go. I have kited the jailor around in TOD elite for long periods of time while the judge is being killed with bramble casters, sonic resist, and my own blue bar healing. No babysitter required.

It pains me to see rangers being built without this utility. I tell people if they want full on DPS to make a fighter or a barb. Ranger gives up some raw DPS, and in turn gains survivability unparalleled in a full melee build. I see too many people who dont take advantage of this and play the class like a fighter who can buff, but do far less damage. If I am going to lose some DPS I am going to gain something at least equally useful in return. If I dont take advantage of the self healing and multiclass friendliness of the class, I may as well have rolled up a kensai AA, who does more damage, but cant get away with playing any other role.

Looks like your builds are pretty close to what I am rolling with.

zex95966
05-31-2011, 11:57 PM
I'm afraid I don't believe what you wrote here.

There is no way you are ever going to be near the best of something in DDO if you are unwilling to grind. Any similar character with multiple past lives as a wizard or favored soul will have better spell penetration, whether or not they are elf. Those willing to grind will also have epic items that increase their spell penetration for useful high level spells beyond that which is commonly available. I don't think you are really an anti-grind min/maxer, and I doubt that such a person even exists.

You also seem to have come to the erroneous conclusion that narrowly focused characters are superior to generalists. Elves make good rangers, rogues, and bards (and wizard multi-classes) because of correlations in the abilities of the race and the features of such classes. Narrowly focused rangers, rogues, and bards are inferior characters, however. The term "specialist" used for the class category name actually is referring to the ability of these classes to specialize in a broad number of areas, with lots of skill points and class attributes. They are generalists.

Elves have some good dragonmarks. They have high invulnerability to enchantment spells and improved perception. They have an advantage in dexterity and a disadvantage in constitution. They have bonuses and proficiencies with using bows and rapiers. If your character is going to utilize many of these features concurrently during gameplay, then your character perhaps should be an elf.

Thing is, most of their benefits you would have gotten anyways - their weapon proficiences for example... nearly all melee classes get those weapons regardless, and casters would rather cast.

dex bonus is useful for some things, but useless for others. Con is always useful. Halfling get a dex bonus as well - they take a str hit, but depending on what your doing it's not important, the same thing can't be said for con.

...I've already said all this.

If you don't believe that I am willing to put in an effort into making a good character at creation but am unwilling to grind for hours on end, well... good for you?

I find it fun to make a unique character, I don't find it fun to spend hours farming the same thing over and over. I don't know why that's hard to believe.
Heck, with very few exceptions, I don't even want to repeat the same quests, I'd much rather start something I haven't done before.

All I was trying to say was, that a person who makes an effort into a good character at creation will be better off than someone who doesn't.

besides of which, I have found a couple of niche builds for elves here, so I'm happy now, there is no need to bump this thread up anymore.