PDA

View Full Version : non-cosmetic cosmetics.



Nymph83
05-27-2011, 07:20 AM
so i went to buy a cosmetic hood for my warforged wizard today to go with the armor kit, and when i equip the hood, it replaces my minos. my husband had bought the golden skull head thing, and its like a potion that applies overtop of his headgear. i was under the false assumption that cosmetics were cosmetic.

i want my tp back so i can buy an actual cosmetic headpiece, but am not sure where to begin. do i make a support ticket? is this something that could happen, or am i just wasting my time?

very poor form for the store to have false advertising like this. sure its only 150tp, but im still disapointed.

any help is appreciated.

donfilibuster
05-27-2011, 04:24 PM
Account support are the ones that deal with store purchases.

Indeed, only a few hats work like that, which are fairly new.
Those few items state it in the description text in the store.

I agree those are nice, we need more and more varied.
As it is now there's too few options to try find a match for your armor.

jacqueline
05-27-2011, 04:37 PM
so i went to buy a cosmetic hood for my warforged wizard today to go with the armor kit, and when i equip the hood, it replaces my minos. my husband had bought the golden skull head thing, and its like a potion that applies overtop of his headgear. i was under the false assumption that cosmetics were cosmetic.

i want my tp back so i can buy an actual cosmetic headpiece, but am not sure where to begin. do i make a support ticket? is this something that could happen, or am i just wasting my time?

very poor form for the store to have false advertising like this. sure its only 150tp, but im still disapointed.

any help is appreciated.

I would disagree that there is any false advertising on this one -- I think you have to accept some responsibility as user error.

The gold helm, and others like it, clearly say "Make your current helmet look like this one."

The one you purchased, and many others in the store, do not say anything of the sort.

Some of the onus has to be on the consumer to read and understand what they are purchasing.

jacqueline
05-27-2011, 05:01 PM
Might want to check this thread, btw.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=215342

Memnir
05-27-2011, 05:13 PM
Not all hats are graphics-swaps. But it can be confusing to tell the difference between which ones replace the look of your current hat - and which one's are just hats in and of themselves.

IMHO - there should be a clearer distinction made between the two in the item descriptions, because this is not the first time I've heard some someone not knowing the difference and feeling like they got ripped off. This is a case where clearer descriptions - and uniform descriptions at that - would go a long way to making the Store more user-friendly.


OP, I don't think you will get your points refunded - but I hope you do. This is 95% Turbine's fault, and they should refund the points and make some changes to prevent problems like this from repeating.

jacqueline
05-27-2011, 05:26 PM
Not all hats are graphics-swaps. But it can be confusing to tell the difference between which ones replace the look of your current hat - and which one's are just hats in and of themselves.

IMHO - there should be a clearer distinction made between the two in the item descriptions, because this is not the first time I've heard some someone not knowing the difference and feeling like they got ripped off. This is a case where clearer descriptions - and uniform descriptions at that - would go a long way to making the Store more user-friendly.


OP, I don't think you will get your points refunded - but I hope you do. This is 95% Turbine's fault, and they should refund the points and make some changes to prevent problems like this from repeating.

You open the store to the section for cosmetic items...

As you look at the selection of hats on the various pages, before even clicking on a specific hat, some say "Make your current helmet look like this one" while others do not. That seems pretty clear to me.

This is user error, not false advertising on Turbine's part.

I think there are definitely things that Turbine messes up but this doesn't seem to be one of them. The OP didn't take the time to thoroughly vet her purchase, which is her responsibility at any time but especially when it may be costing her actual cash in the form of TP.

AMDarkwolf
05-27-2011, 05:33 PM
honestly, all the ddo hats SHOULD be cosmetic, and ONLY cosmetic.

I would not mind once bit if they just made every single one a 'skin' for the helm your wearing, AKA armor kits.

Gkar
05-27-2011, 05:40 PM
You open the store to the section for cosmetic items...

As you look at the selection of hats on the various pages, before even clicking on a specific hat, some say "Make your current helmet look like this one" while others do not. That seems pretty clear to me.

This is user error, not false advertising on Turbine's part.

I think there are definitely things that Turbine messes up but this doesn't seem to be one of them. The OP didn't take the time to thoroughly vet her purchase, which is her responsibility at any time but especially when it may be costing her actual cash in the form of TP.

I made this mistake once myself because what idiot would buy a hat with no functions for real money? Clearly they MUST work like the other cosmetic hats right?

As for the description not being explicit...have you actually ever READ turbine item descriptions? They are wrong almost as often as they are right. It was what, a year and a half that inferno type potions said 50% when the number was really 75%. Striding boots/items/spells are all wrong and have been wrong for over two years. Past life feats for several classes are wrong. Damage from several spells are wrong. XP posts said they were usable on others for at least 6 months after they were self only.

I could go on but I don't have nearly enough time to list everything Turbine has that isn't close to the description.

Shade
05-27-2011, 05:43 PM
Yea its user erorr..

But it should be more idioit-proof imo.

As some have/can easily read a hat that says "make your helm look more like this one" ... Then assume thats how all cosmetics work, and buy a differnet one while only glancing at the description and not fully reading it.

They should be put in seperate sections, or have special icons denoting that they work different.

not a fan of how they handled this at all, as it also breaks the golden rule of "store loot never being betting then lootgen" fernando paise promised one day.. As the truely cosmetic hats that take up no slot at all, also provide free bonuses you otherwise cant get anywhere else in the game, without taking up a slot... And the fact if you want said bonus, like say some extra jump skill from the bunny hat, you have to look like a ******** bunny to get it.. No other option. (then wasting a slot on what you may not be able to fit)

Just a big mess that should of been thought out better before they tossed it out to us.

jacqueline
05-27-2011, 05:52 PM
I made this mistake once myself because what idiot would buy a hat with no functions for real money? Clearly they MUST work like the other cosmetic hats right?

As for the description not being explicit...have you actually ever READ turbine item descriptions? They are wrong almost as often as they are right. It was what, a year and a half that inferno type potions said 50% when the number was really 75%. Striding boots/items/spells are all wrong and have been wrong for over two years. Past life feats for several classes are wrong. Damage from several spells are wrong. XP posts said they were usable on others for at least 6 months after they were self only.

I could go on but I don't have nearly enough time to list everything Turbine has that isn't close to the description.

Let me just understand you -- you want to rant against Turbine when they get it wrong, but then you want to penalize them by having them return the TP when they get it right as well?

I agree with you - when Turbine screws up and falsely advertises something incorrectly - like the XP pots that said "self" and "friend" - then they should absolutely be responsible and refund the TP for those misrepresented items.

This is NOT the case in the OP and so I do NOT agree that they should have to refund her TP, since the mistake was the OP's and not Turbine's.

The responsibility has to work both ways.

Gkar
05-27-2011, 05:56 PM
Let me just understand you -- you want to rant against Turbine when they get it wrong, but then you want to penalize them by having them return the TP when they get it right as well?

I agree with you - when Turbine screws up and falsely advertises something incorrectly - like the XP pots that said "self" and "friend" - then they should absolutely be responsible and refund the TP for those misrepresented items.

This is NOT the case in the OP and so I do NOT agree that they should have to refund her TP, since the mistake was the OP's and not Turbine's.

The responsibility has to work both ways.

I didn't say there wasn't user error involved. However, your "its all your fault" approach is simply wrong since, once again, what idiot would spend $2 on a hat that they can't even use in quests? It makes no sense to assume they work that way and thus it is somewhat reasonable to assume all the cosmetic hats are just COSMETIC. Every other cosmetic item is an overlay, it doesn't change a core item. It is the exception from the norm that should be noted and thus the advertising is somewhat deceptive because it doesn't point out that the hats are of pretty much no value.

jacqueline
05-27-2011, 06:08 PM
I didn't say there wasn't user error involved. However, your "its all your fault" approach is simply wrong since, once again, what idiot would spend $2 on a hat that they can't even use in quests? It makes no sense to assume they work that way and thus it is somewhat reasonable to assume all the cosmetic hats are just COSMETIC. Every other cosmetic item is an overlay, it doesn't change a core item. It is the exception from the norm that should be noted and thus the advertising is somewhat deceptive because it doesn't point out that the hats are of pretty much no value.

In this case, I do think it is the user's fault. As I have already said - when it's Turbine's fault (and they have made many mistakes) then I think they need to pony up and accept fault.

As for value -- that's really just in the eye of the beholder, right? I mean, cosmetic armor has no real value, per se. It's just about looking pretty. With the hats, at least some of them DO provide some in game functions like bonuses to skills.

As far as the items in question are concerned I think Turbine has been pretty clear in the descriptions. You want it to be noted in the description and it has been.

Armor kits say "Change the appearance of your favorite armor."

Hats that overlay say "Make your current helmet look like this one."

Hats that don't overlay... um, don't say it.

That seems to be pretty plain English to me. As for assumptions, well... you know what they say about what happens when you assume. :)

Nymph83
05-27-2011, 06:50 PM
um sure it says makes your current helm appear as this one...except for the fact that its being sold in the 'cosmetic' part of the store. the very definition of cosmetic gear is that it overlaps appearance. how ****ed would you be if you bought an armor kit, and it equips with no benefits, just the look...not very cosmetic when it replaces your armor.

sure i can see how its my fault for now scrutinizing the texts, and i accept my loss of tp, but anyone with any common sense can see that it is misleading. a 'buyer beware' attitude from turbine just loses them business and i can guarantee i won't be bothering with cosmetic anything anymoe, hope the 150tp was worth it. they wouldn't need to refund the points, they coudl just do an exchange or fix non-cosmetic headgear to function as cosmetic headgear as it should be all along.

the thread jacqueline posted pretty much has turbine say 'screw you' for the misleading store catagory, and false advertising on thier part.

Memnir
05-27-2011, 08:56 PM
This is user error, not false advertising on Turbine's part.I never said it was false advertising - and that is why I doubt the OP will get their points back.


I did say it was unclear and misleading advertising - and it is. It is not abundantly clear why some Hats change your current helmet's appearance and some don't. The wording is even inconsistent among the ones that do.

It is not an uncommon mistake to make, and that is Turbine's fault.

jacqueline
05-27-2011, 09:28 PM
I never said it was false advertising - and that is why I doubt the OP will get their points back.


I did say it was unclear and misleading advertising - and it is. It is not abundantly clear why some Hats change your current helmet's appearance and some don't. The wording is even inconsistent among the ones that do.

It is not an uncommon mistake to make, and that is Turbine's fault.

I guess I fail to see how it is either "unclear or misleading advertising."

The ones which DO replace a current helm tell you not once but twice -- once on the page where you look at all the hat options and one more time when you open up the specific item.

I guess we could say that the ones which don't replace the current helm should also tell you such, but by equal measure I think reading comprehension has to come into play and people need to be responsible for what they are purchasing.

To the OP who complained about Buyer Beware? You bet - I can not think of a single transaction anyplace, anytime, anywhere where there should NOT be a caveat of Buyer Beware - in game or out.

Memnir
05-27-2011, 10:21 PM
I guess I fail to see how it is either "unclear or misleading advertising."Then we agree to disagree.

Since the start, the Store has had issues with clarity and accuracy in it's descriptions. The fact that they have both hats that do not not replace the graphic of your current helm, and are in fact just helms, mixed in with those that do replace your current helm's graphics is sloppy and confusing.


Turbine could be doing a lot better with the Store then they are. I think that the helms are one of those specific examples of Turbine just flying by the seat of their pants in regards to the Store - and it showing.


You disagree, and that's cool. And that ends it, as far as I'm concerned. You won't change my mind, nor I yours.

Myrddinman
05-27-2011, 11:06 PM
Since the start, the Store has had issues with clarity and accuracy in it's descriptions. The fact that they have both hats that do not not replace the graphic of your current helm, and are in fact just helms, mixed in with those that do replace your current helm's graphics is sloppy and confusing.


Turbine could be doing a lot better with the Store then they are. I think that the helms are one of those specific examples of Turbine just flying by the seat of their pants in regards to the Store - and it showing.

I couldn't agree more! Whereas, yes responsibility does fall on the buyer in these cases to read and understand prior to purchasing anything, Turbine could be doing much more to better organize and feature items in the store.

IMO, nothing that is not a skin for a current item should be listed under "Cosmetic" in the store, as the word implies it has little purpose other than to alter appearance...

Cosmetic: def. "superficial measures to make something appear better, more attractive, or more impressive"

donfilibuster
05-28-2011, 12:21 AM
Maybe the store pages can have some self-explanatory icons.
The visual people makes good customers, why not make that happy customers as well.

Something like the icons on top of the rooms of the crafting devices.
That'd be simple and should work nicely, besides won't clutter the store or item pages.

(for the hats would be something like hat arrow-right hat, or hat arrow-down head :P)

Nymph83
05-28-2011, 05:57 AM
the simple fact is its a non-cosmetic 'cosmetic' item being sold in the store.

it doesn't say "Make your current helmet look like this one" but it does not say it will not either.

its a very clear case of mislabled items, and poor description. honestly jaqueline if you can't see how this could be even the least bit unclear and misleading i believe you are just trolling. [you probably made a similar mistake, and feel others should have to deal with it also]

as for buyer beware, crappy stores deal in no refund, mislabled and poor quality merchandise. decent businesses have an exchange policy, full refund, warranty, and other such measures in place. ddo store shoudln't be run like some back alley shanty selling fenced goods.

"Maybe the store pages can have some self-explanatory icons. "
that would be redundant since the helms in question are being sold in the cosmetic part of the store...to me it already seemed self explanitory. i don't want a refund or exchange, i want my hood to be the cosmetic hood that i bought...should be simple enough.

Emili
05-28-2011, 06:13 AM
You open the store to the section for cosmetic items...

As you look at the selection of hats on the various pages, before even clicking on a specific hat, some say "Make your current helmet look like this one" while others do not. That seems pretty clear to me.

This is user error, not false advertising on Turbine's part.

I think there are definitely things that Turbine messes up but this doesn't seem to be one of them. The OP didn't take the time to thoroughly vet her purchase, which is her responsibility at any time but especially when it may be costing her actual cash in the form of TP.
While I agree that the author of the OP should read the descriptions... it is also true that the item she bought is not really cosmetic and should be under the regular gear listings - not in the section they placed it in.

Personally I currently have a beef with cosmetic armour skins being tossed away on TRs. I thought they fixed this but apparently not.

Raiar
06-01-2011, 04:09 PM
I would disagree that there is any false advertising on this one -- I think you have to accept some responsibility as user error.

The gold helm, and others like it, clearly say "Make your current helmet look like this one."

The one you purchased, and many others in the store, do not say anything of the sort.

Some of the onus has to be on the consumer to read and understand what they are purchasing.
Well, these are all in the "Cosmetic" section of the store, so in fact yes it does say that it will change your helm's appearance. The trick is that if it only tells you that once (by being listed as "cosmetic") but doesn't repeat the same information a second time with the magic code words "make your current helmet look like this one" then you should ignore what the store tells you about its use and trust that it will really be just a helm (despite the store telling you it's not). After all, any good consumer should know all the magic code words and expect that being told something once should be ignored unless you see it again a second place?

Is that really your idea of what the onus should be on the consumer? Yes, it's enough that someone who has run across this error before can recognize what to trust and what not to trust (or at least have some basis for guessing what to trust), but that's nowhere near the same as being accurate.

I don't know what the chances of getting your TP back are, but you should be able to, because this is clearly Turbine's error. They listed the item incorrectly.

donfilibuster
06-01-2011, 07:20 PM
Well, these are all in the "Cosmetic" section of the store, so in fact yes it does say that it will change your helm's appearance. The trick is that if it only tells you that once (by being listed as "cosmetic") but doesn't repeat the same information a second time with the magic code words "make your current helmet look like this one" then you should ignore what the store tells you about its use and trust that it will really be just a helm (despite the store telling you it's not). After all, any good consumer should know all the magic code words and expect that being told something once should be ignored unless you see it again a second place?


Are you saying that just for being in the cosmetic section hints they all change a helm's appearance?

The appearance skins are fairly new, most of the hats are before that time and work as a regular hat.

Not sure what u mean by magic code words, the norm is reading what it says on the actual description.
e.g. the customer reps always recommend to check your cart.
Altough i agree the text lacks a big deal of information but that'd be a separate issue.

I think when jacq says about the onus is precisely about reading the description, which is surely from what the terms say of sales being final.
In this game when in doubt it's a good habit to ask first because people may help avoid further problems.

Raiar
06-02-2011, 04:26 PM
Are you saying that just for being in the cosmetic section hints they all change a helm's appearance?
I'm not saying that the cosmetic section "hints" at anything. The word "cosmetic" is right there. That's an explicit statement, not a hint. When the store explicitly states that this is a cosmetic item even though in fact it is not a cosmetic item, then that's a false statement.



The appearance skins are fairly new, most of the hats are before that time and work as a regular hat.
which would be perfectly fine, if that's what they were listed as in the store. These are regular equipment, not cosmetic equipment. They don't belong under the "Cosmetic" label.

Cauthey
06-02-2011, 04:31 PM
Open a ticket, and be firm and professional. Don't be snippy, but state your case in a logical fashion, and it might help to indicate that you will not be spending any future money if this is how they conduct business.

YES, while it is their published and parrotted policy that all sales are final, I know of a number of occasions where they have refunded Turbine Points.

Stick to your guns, don't get emotional, and insist that they are wrong, and you the customer are right. Good luck.

Meretrix
06-02-2011, 04:37 PM
I have to agree with the op, the item is in cosmetic gear. How would you feel if you bought a leaf2 pale/red cosmetic that replaced your armor only to find out the fine print never claimed it was a real cosmetic, yet was sold in the midst of them...

fluffybunnywilson
06-02-2011, 04:57 PM
In this case, I do think it is the user's fault. As I have already said - when it's Turbine's fault (and they have made many mistakes) then I think they need to pony up and accept fault.

The fact that Turbine completely fails to pony up even when screw ups are their fault kind of makes the question of responsibility kid of irrelevant.

I have seen companies who bend over backwards to make sure that their customers are taken care of - even when it is mostly the customer's fault that something happened.

Turbine, on the other hand, seems to be very happy with their policy of telling customers to go pound sand when there is a problem like this, even in cases where it is mostly (and often entirely) Turbine's fault. Turbine's steadfast policy is that no one gets items replaced when there is a bug or glitch on Turbine's side that destroys a player's equipment. The only exceptions to this seem to be when large numbers of players have something go wrong in a way that can be fixed in one sweep of the server (e.g. Mineral II weapons).

Tunst
06-02-2011, 05:09 PM
You open the store to the section for cosmetic items...

As you look at the selection of hats on the various pages, before even clicking on a specific hat, some say "Make your current helmet look like this one" while others do not. That seems pretty clear to me.

This is user error, not false advertising on Turbine's part.

I think there are definitely things that Turbine messes up but this doesn't seem to be one of them. The OP didn't take the time to thoroughly vet her purchase, which is her responsibility at any time but especially when it may be costing her actual cash in the form of TP.

if it cants make something else cosmetically look like it, shouldnt it be in gear section instead of cosmetics?

donfilibuster
06-02-2011, 07:45 PM
which would be perfectly fine, if that's what they were listed as in the store. These are regular equipment, not cosmetic equipment. They don't belong under the "Cosmetic" label.

Well, just saying the cosmetic entry has always been there with the regular hats, before the applied skins were invented.
Armor kits were originally thrown there as well but was a mess and shortly moved to their own category.

But i agree the regular hats should be on the gear section, it is indeed a good idea and makes a lot of sense.
They would be right next to the armor, and the same goes for the regular shields.

Maleth
06-05-2011, 09:03 PM
I would disagree that there is any false advertising on this one -- I think you have to accept some responsibility as user error.

The gold helm, and others like it, clearly say "Make your current helmet look like this one."

The one you purchased, and many others in the store, do not say anything of the sort.

Some of the onus has to be on the consumer to read and understand what they are purchasing.

When you see that some helm cosmetics say exactly what you say above AND the others DON'T say otherwise, it's not terribly unreasonable to think they all work the same way. It is common practice in retail that when you have to notate that an items works differently from another group that you counter that with a notation on the OTHER ones indicating that they work differently from the first group. It's just plain polite and if you don't do this, you're pretty much asking for snafus. Not everybody can puzzle out the meaning of an ABSENCE of text on how an item works means that it works differently from the other group. It's confusion that they could easily avoid. Why they didn't notate on all how they work when there are two different mechanics at work just boggles me. I chalk it up again to their standard lack of foresight on the store/website management crew.

FTR, I understood this, but it's also why i haven't bought an armor kit yet. The fact that they in essence merge with your existing armor and you can't switch the kit to a different piece of armor or even a different character is rather **** poor. They are KITS, are they not? The whole idea of a kit implies that it is customizable and/or changeable.