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View Full Version : Suggestion: make Tumble useful



anatomyofaghost
05-23-2011, 10:39 AM
Because right now it's horrible. You can't actually dodge any kind of enemy attacks with this (unless you've been tumbling 4+ seconds away and are now completely out of the fight), you can barely dodge ray and arrow attacks because of glitchy hit detection and it doesn't do anything when you would logically think it would, such as trying to get through traps etc.

So how about a few improvements like +1 AC for every 5 ranks. I doubt this would be game breaking because any class that actually invests in Tumble... well... is probably AC gimped anyway. Just throw some conditions for the AC like the same conditions for Evasion and I think this would be fine while still giving players some kind of a benefit for an otherwise mostly useless skill.

I'd suggest giving a +1 save to traps per 5 ranks too (which would probably make more sense) but then it might be overpowered. DDO is NOT a normal turn & tile based D&D port and I think a lot of the slow pace rules just do not apply themselves to the more active combat model of DDO.

Any thoughts on this?

coolpenguin410
05-23-2011, 10:51 AM
I'd say a miss chance to reflect that you're tumbling around the attack.

Either make it small, perhaps 10%, and make it stack with blur and displacement. Or make it big, maybe 50%, and not stack. I'd lean towards the latter.

Bodic
05-23-2011, 10:59 AM
My tumble is fine I dont die from any fall.

suszterpatt
05-23-2011, 11:00 AM
I'd say a miss chance to reflect that you're tumbling around the attack.

Either make it small, perhaps 10%, and make it stack with blur and displacement. Or make it big, maybe 50%, and not stack. I'd lean towards the latter.I made a similar suggestion before that I can't be bothered to look up now. Basically, the idea was to have the enemy make an additional attack roll, but against your Tumble skill instead of your AC.

BOgre
05-23-2011, 11:30 AM
and it doesn't do anything when you would logically think it would, such as trying to get through traps etc.


I'd say doing a backflip or somersault into acid or spikes would kill you just as much as simply running into them... Evade is what you're wanting there.

Now, if tumbling could be made into a toggle (like sneak and defensive fighting), that insinuates itself into your attacks, so that you're a monkey-style rolling around bouncin around hard to hit rubber ball... that would be cool. +1 to ac/4 levels as mentioned, -1 to hit maybe, maybe even throw in can only be used while fighting with blunt weapons or unarmed (so's not to cut your own fool head off).

But yeah, as it stands there doesn't seem to be any good reason to take it at all. I don't die from any fall either, with a feather item on the hotbar I don't even need to be wearing it when I fall, I can put the boots on in mid air and still save myself before the ground... silly.

SirValentine
05-23-2011, 11:47 AM
My tumble is fine I dont die from any fall.

Has anyone ever seen more than 120 points of falling damage? I'm not sure if this carried over to DDO, but in P&P D&D, falling damage capped out at 20d6. If so, even without Feather Fall or Tumble, it's not hard to not die from ANY fall.

Hambo
05-23-2011, 12:06 PM
Has anyone ever seen more than 120 points of falling damage? I'm not sure if this carried over to DDO, but in P&P D&D, falling damage capped out at 20d6. If so, even without Feather Fall or Tumble, it's not hard to not die from ANY fall.

Try jumping from Velah's platform and then ask the question again :D

sirgog
05-23-2011, 12:22 PM
Has anyone ever seen more than 120 points of falling damage? I'm not sure if this carried over to DDO, but in P&P D&D, falling damage capped out at 20d6. If so, even without Feather Fall or Tumble, it's not hard to not die from ANY fall.

It caps, IIRC, at 90 minus your Tumble score. Unless, as has already been mentioned, you do the VON6 skydive.

AcesWylde
05-23-2011, 12:28 PM
Ahhh, the weekly improve Tumble thread...the mods really should put a sticky thread up for Tumble so we don't get a new thread every week, lol

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=319483


Tumble
(I propose an additional change for tumble. Instead of making it a passive ability that you activate by holding block and moving, could it be made an activated ability I can drag onto my bar?)
10+ ranks: You may tumble through enemies as though they were not there
20+ ranks: While tumbling through enemies you have a % chance to attack one of them. The % is equal to your tumble skill.



http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317552


Tumble - Experinced players never bother with more than 1 rank. Why? Because any more is useless. True a higher Tumble skill will allow you to fall without taking as much damage, but even brand new players can get a Feather Fall clicky just starting out. And many don't even bother equiping thier Feather Fall item most of the time, since they can simply slide down most cliffs.

Allow active Tumbling the possibility to evade damage, even if you don't have Evasion.

(Without Evasion) When you make a successful Reflex save to avoid damage while Tumbling, you may also make a Tumble check to take 25% damage instead of half damage. (Acts as Lesser Evasion for characters without Evasion, but only while Tumbling).

(With Evasion) If you fail a Reflex save to avoid damage while Tumbling, you may also make a Tumble check to take 25% damage instead of half damage.



Active tumbling = not able to do anything else = no real reason to spend for tumbling.

Give it a % miss chance (passive) of some kind ... stacking 1% per 3 tumble, capped at some point?


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317552&page=3

Sorry, I just can't see how you can passively evade attacks. I can however see the validity of using tumbling techniques while fighting defensively, you are after all actively trying to keep from getting hit. Say a 1% chance every 4 points, capped at 40 for 10%. Personally I'd like it as a chance to avoid all damage (including traps and evadable spells at well as physical attacks), but that would be rather moot for those with evasion.

PnP rules provide a +1 bonus to defensive fighting at 5 ranks, then again at 25, and every 10 more thereafter, so using tumble while fighting defensively isn't too far off base, and a chance to evade damage would be more useful than extra AC in the state the game is current in (unless they happen to fix AC at the same time, LOL)