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Dispel
05-23-2011, 02:02 AM
PLEASE make it so ship buffs don't run down in public instances. Wouldn't it be nice if after a quest people go grab ship buffs and then find a group instead of not knowing if they're going to find a group then being like "hey guys wait I need to grab ship buffs" or if you do grab them and then you have to wait on other people while your's run down? That's horrible! Please fix.

jcTharin
05-23-2011, 02:13 AM
I completely agree with you.

I really hope you are not the man I think you are.

Rian
05-23-2011, 02:15 AM
That's a pretty good idea, I dislike feeling rushed because I log in 2 minutes after the scheduled raid was supposed to be started and hold everyone up with getting ship buffs (because I've let them become a crutch sadly), while wasting other people's time. It's an idea that adds to...uhhh...what's that "E" word... it's on the tip of my tounge...ettiquete? SPELL CHECK PLEASE!!!

Ugumagre
05-23-2011, 02:29 AM
Must we have every Week this discussion?

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3804853#post3804853

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=310436

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317230&page=2

Jaid314
05-23-2011, 02:35 AM
Must we have every Week this discussion?

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3804853#post3804853

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=310436

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317230&page=2

until it gets implemented, yes.

it's a good idea, it shouldn't be hard to implement (and at the very least shouldn't be hard to tell us whether or not it might be implemented and/or that there will be delays because of unforeseen problems), and it's evidently wanted by a number of people.

Truga
05-23-2011, 02:48 AM
until it gets implemented, yes.

This.

jcTharin
05-23-2011, 02:51 AM
This.

What he said. this would be a very good thing to implement, and worth any amount of spamming

Ugumagre
05-23-2011, 03:16 AM
until it gets implemented, yes.

it's a good idea, it shouldn't be hard to implement (and at the very least shouldn't be hard to tell us whether or not it might be implemented and/or that there will be delays because of unforeseen problems), and it's evidently wanted by a number of people.

Yes, is wanted by a number of people. And not wanted by a number of other people.

Truga
05-23-2011, 03:41 AM
Yes, is wanted by a number of people. And not wanted by a number of other people.

They think they don't want it because they haven't had it yet. It's kinda like with quicken spell. You don't know you want it until you have it.

Edit: Unless you can show me a post that shows a bad thing about this change, and as such should not be implemented.

mystafyi
05-23-2011, 03:44 AM
agree... might as well make ship buffs permanent and applied upon login. I also would like auto complete button upon entering dungeon. God-mode would be nice too ......
~sigh~

PwnHammer40K
05-23-2011, 03:46 AM
I really hope you are not the man I think you are.h4x?

Truga
05-23-2011, 03:47 AM
agree... might as well make ship buffs permanent and applied upon login. I also would like auto complete button upon entering dungeon. God-mode would be nice too ......
~sigh~

How does this relate to not having to wait on idiots that think they need a full array of redundant ship buffs before every quest?

mystafyi
05-23-2011, 03:49 AM
How does this relate to not having to wait on idiots that think they need a full array of redundant ship buffs before every quest?

the only folks you have to wait on is the ****** that think they need a full array of redundant ship buffs before every quest ;)

pHo3nix
05-23-2011, 03:54 AM
How does this relate to not having to wait on idiots that think they need a full array of redundant ship buffs before every quest?

Why should they make idiots' lives even easier? If people think they need ship buffs to run harbor on normal they shouldn't be encouraged..

Nysrock
05-23-2011, 03:55 AM
So what would be next? Having the House P and J buffs not run when you're in a public area? They are buffs that are there to help you but they really aren't needed to complete a quest. If they run out in mid quest and you can't complete then maybe you shouldn't be doing that quest in the first place.

Truga
05-23-2011, 03:58 AM
the only folks you have to wait on is the ****** that think they need a full array of redundant ship buffs before every quest ;)

So what you're saying is, there is no downsides to this change, except not having to wait someone you might have to wait for, or end up getting a 10% penalty hit because he died trying to catch up after he got his buffs.

As someone who PUGs a lot, I really don't see why this would do anything bad for the game, and do a lot of good at the same time.


Why should they make idiots' lives even easier? If people think they need ship buffs to run harbor on normal they shouldn't be encouraged..

If I'm the party leader they'll get kicked if they insist in getting the buffs after the initial invite. If someone else is, they might not. We might even have to wait for them because the leader is paranoid.

Then there's people who recall midquest because they die and suddenly decide they _need_ new buffs. Again, I'd kick, but some leaders don't... I don't have the fix for this issue yet though.

Edit: I can understand TRs wanting their XP shrine above a certain level (the couple % really helps in the long run). Everyone else should probably think about how they ran quests before ship buffs.

mystafyi
05-23-2011, 04:03 AM
end up getting a 10% penalty hit because he died trying to catch up after he got his buffs.


If he died trying to catch up in quest after getting full ship buffs... well i dont think anything would have helped him. shouldnt be anything left alive if you already cleared it....

on the other hand.. maybe we should implement /godmode to help those that cant go through empty quests to catch up. dont want to give anyone stress from a little challenge.. could be unhealthy for your heart ;)

Truga
05-23-2011, 04:05 AM
If he died trying to catch up in quest after getting full ship buffs... well i dont think anything would have helped him. shouldnt be anything left alive if you already cleared it....

on the other hand.. maybe we should implement /godmode to help those that cant go through empty quests to catch up. dont want to give anyone stress from a little challenge.. could be unhealthy for your heart ;)

Some quests respawn enemies. A lot.

pHo3nix
05-23-2011, 04:10 AM
So what you're saying is, there is no downsides to this change, except not having to wait someone you might have to wait for, or end up getting a 10% penalty hit because he died trying to catch up after he got his buffs.

As someone who PUGs a lot, I really don't see why this would do anything bad for the game, and do a lot of good at the same time.



If I'm the party leader they'll get kicked if they insist in getting the buffs after the initial invite. If someone else is, they might not. We might even have to wait for them because the leader is paranoid.

Then there's people who recall midquest because they die and suddenly decide they _need_ new buffs. Again, I'd kick, but some leaders don't...

You shouldn't encourage bad play in any case..just think about curse, blindness and other spells that were permanent: good players got stacks of potions to remove them, bad players just relied on clerics or cried and they finally nerfed them to just last a couple of minutes..people should become better or fail, the game shouldn't be dumbed down to the point where bad play succeeds.

Nysrock
05-23-2011, 04:21 AM
You shouldn't encourage bad play in any case..just think about curse, blindness and other spells that were permanent: good players got stacks of potions to remove them, bad players just relied on clerics or cried and they finally nerfed them to just last a couple of minutes..people should become better or fail, the game shouldn't be dumbed down to the point where bad play succeeds.

Aye, they have made it so much easier now that ship buffs are like icing on an ice cream cone, it might taste good but it is not needed.

Look what changes they already made:

No More XP Debt
No More Permanent Curse (Loved all the party hats:D)
No More Permanent Blindness (Nothing like trying to have someone guide you to a Tavern via VC:eek:)
Negative Levels Go Away Over Time (Nothing like completing a lvl 12 quest with 9 neg levels)
Stat Damage Goes Away Over Time (Used to stink not being able to loot a chest because str was 0)
Tons & Tons of Low Level Twink Gear (Still remember pulling my first Vorpal)

With all those changes why do we need to make it easier for people to rely on something that, while nice, is not needed?

NUDS
05-23-2011, 04:29 AM
Well you see, it's these "New things" which replaces the "Old things". While the "Old things" might have been good in their times, old timers will always reminiscent about the "Old things" when "New things" are introduced.

Just face it, the "Old things" will never come back. What do vets love to say a lot? Adapt to new changes. Well looks like it's time to adapt and get used to these "New things".


On topic, ship buffs should utilise the same duration expiration mechanic as the exp/hireling timers i.e. stop ticking in public instances. There really is no downside to implementing it, other than it being a "New thing" and old timers hating "New things".

arjiwan
05-23-2011, 04:29 AM
For me, I don't take ship buffs. I am lazy to do so, and doesn't have any problems running without one. Our small guild ship mostly has amenities like bank, tavern and teleporter, not really on the buffs.


Yes, is wanted by a number of people. And not wanted by a number of other people.

I have the same question as others, can you help me by showing those people who are not wanting this change? I wasn't that updated.



agree... might as well make ship buffs permanent and applied upon login. I also would like auto complete button upon entering dungeon. God-mode would be nice too ......
~sigh~

I like how you present your argument. The problem with having a decent conversation today is people who are always on extreme arguments. I apologize for my question, and note, I ask this sincerely. How can this feature make people having a God Mode. How can this be an easy button? Is there any challenge in getting ship buffs other than running to the Guild Ship and clicking NPC's?

Cheers!

pHo3nix
05-23-2011, 04:39 AM
I like how you present your argument. The problem with having a decent conversation today is people who are always on extreme arguments. I apologize for my question, and note, I ask this sincerely. How can this feature make people having a God Mode. How can this be an easy button? Is there any challenge in getting ship buffs other than running to the Guild Ship and clicking NPC's?

Cheers!

It's not a challenge but if you want them go and get them..if you are lazy(like me) you can avoid them, there's no quest that needs ship buffs to be completed.

Nysrock
05-23-2011, 04:39 AM
Well you see, it's these "New things" which replaces the "Old things". While the "Old things" might have been good in their times, old timers will always reminiscent about the "Old things" when "New things" are introduced.

Just face it, the "Old things" will never come back. What do vets love to say a lot? Adapt to new changes. Well looks like it's time to adapt and get used to these "New things".


On topic, ship buffs should utilise the same duration expiration mechanic as the exp/hireling timers i.e. stop ticking in public instances. There really is no downside to implementing it, other than it being a "New thing" and old timers hating "New things".

I myself have no problems with these "New Things" ship buffs. I like them and use them every chance I can get. My problem is when "New Things" means "I need this to make it the fastest and easiest way possible for myself because if my buffs run before a quest I HAVE to go get them again because otherwise I can't do the quest."

I love the guild ships and the buffs. Just stop thinking that you HAVE to have them. If they run out, so what. They are not like the House P buffs that you actually pay for each time you get them AND only have a 30 min timer. It makes sense for hirelings to pause because you don't use them outside of a quest. Buffs are just spells that are cast on you. What other spells in game pause until you need them?

Truga
05-23-2011, 04:48 AM
You shouldn't encourage bad play in any case..just think about curse, blindness and other spells that were permanent: good players got stacks of potions to remove them, bad players just relied on clerics or cried and they finally nerfed them to just last a couple of minutes..people should become better or fail, the game shouldn't be dumbed down to the point where bad play succeeds.

Agreed. However, this has nothing to do with effects inside a quest. At best it saves you what, 5 minutes of buffs? Might be one more zerg of ringleader before people wander to their boats again.

My main issue with this thread is: It doesn't nothing at all for people in quests, yet people are calling it dumbing down. I'm against dumbing down actual gameplay. However, I'm also against game mechanics that are simply tedious for no apparent reason. I'd give anything to have perma-blind, curse, stone, etc back. I'd also give anything to not have to run back to the xp shrine because I didn't log off when a problem at work comes up while I'm playing (this happens to sysadmins often).

Public area (glorified 3d lobby if you ask me) convenience has nothing to do with actual quest mechanics. Remember when auction house had no search? Or even when there was no auction house? This is in the same category. It's not needed, but it won't do anything to quests either. All it does is make getting to actual play less painful, thus increasing the time spent playing, and decreasing the time spent in a public area.

Or are you saying all the xp pots, hirelings and whatnot should go back to ticking all the time as well, so we have people organizing parties on irc/voip, and then all hitting log in at the same time, to get the most out of that xp pot they used for their xth tr?

So, is there any other argument against this, other than the all-time favourite "slippery slope"? Because the slope happened years ago. Probably started with the removal of xp penalty. Maybe even earlier. Should we go back to that stage now? Maybe even further back? I remember my first characters having no heroic durability feat. Having 6-7 HP as a caster at level 1 was certainly fun from the start, however getting 1shotted by a kobold for the 100th time certainly wasn't.

roryk27
05-23-2011, 04:49 AM
I think ship buffs should work like XP and guild renown buffs. Stop in public instances. Either that or make all buffs run the whole time while logged in. Like some have said ship buffs to complete quests anyway. So you shouldn't need your XP and renown buffs to complete quests or stop in public instances either. They are after all only spells that have been cast on you.

NUDS
05-23-2011, 04:50 AM
I actually do refresh house P buffs on low-level alts. I have this mini-OCD where I NEED these number to stay active :P

Seriously though, it bugs me when I know that I CAN have +1 to X and Y stat, but don't utilise it. Also, this ties in with when I'm doing clean-up chores (consolidating items, selling/AH etc) and the ship buffs keep ticking down, essentially forcing a refresh when I NEED to do quests. Yes, I don't necessarily NEED the ship buffs but it bugs me to know that I COULD have had a bonus +1 to whatever.

Again, there really is no downside to implementing this.

pHo3nix
05-23-2011, 04:50 AM
On topic, ship buffs should utilise the same duration expiration mechanic as the exp/hireling timers i.e. stop ticking in public instances. There really is no downside to implementing it, other than it being a "New thing" and old timers hating "New things".


Just make them apply on you when you log in, and possibly remain even after death: i think it's not fair you have to do shroud part5 without ship buffs.


Again, ship buffs are not required, you can live without them..if you want them that bad just go and get them...

NUDS
05-23-2011, 04:58 AM
Just make them apply on you when you log in, and possibly remain even after death: i think it's not fair you have to do shroud part5 without ship buffs.


Again, ship buffs are not required, you can live without them..if you want them that bad just go and get them...

Are you even reading the posts?

Yes, you don't NEED them. But it's convenient to have them. I grinded my ass off for my own guild ship and buffs, just like I grinded for house P/J buffs(lol).

Besides, this changes NOTHING in the actual instances. It still ticks down as it does now, you still lose them if you die.

We are advocating for a change in PUBLIC instances, we aren't asking for a change within quests.



So for the 10 millionth time, there really is no downside to this.

arjiwan
05-23-2011, 05:00 AM
It's not a challenge but if you want them go and get them..

I am sorry if I did not explain myself correctly. The one I quoted is saying just put on "God Mode already" in reply to pausing the instance of the buff timers. So what I am saying is, why is it like a God mode to pause it on a timer?



if you are lazy(like me) you can avoid them, there's no quest that needs ship buffs to be completed.

And if you read my post, you will see that I don't run with guild buffs and had no problem doing that...

pHo3nix
05-23-2011, 05:04 AM
Are you even reading the posts?

Yes, you don't NEED them. But it's convenient to have them. I grinded my ass off for my own guild ship and buffs, just like I grinded for house P/J buffs(lol).

Besides, this changes NOTHING in the actual instances. It still ticks down as it does now, you still lose them if you die.

We are advocating for a change in PUBLIC instances, we aren't asking for a change within quests.



So for the 10 millionth time, there really is no downside to this.

Yes, i'm reading posts, but it doesn't mean i have to agree with them :)

roryk27
05-23-2011, 05:08 AM
Yes, i'm reading posts, but it doesn't mean i have to agree with them :)

Would you agree that XP and renown buffs should go back to counting down in public instances? How about that they disappear on death?

pHo3nix
05-23-2011, 05:08 AM
I am sorry if I did not explain myself correctly. The one I quoted is saying just put on "God Mode already" in reply to pausing the instance of the buff timers. So what I am saying is, why is it like a God mode to pause it on a timer?




And if you read my post, you will see that I don't run with guild buffs and had no problem doing that...

Yes, i read it but was too lazy to quote :D

pHo3nix
05-23-2011, 05:13 AM
Would you agree that XP and renown buffs should go back to counting down in public instances? How about that they disappear on death?

Nope, they are fine, but they are not the same as ship buffs cause you pay for them, unless you are lucky enough to get them in chests or trade some eberron dragonshard fragments for the minor xp elixir ;) And they do not make your character more powerful like ship buffs :)

NUDS
05-23-2011, 05:20 AM
Nope, they are fine, but they are not the same as ship buffs cause you pay for them, unless you are lucky enough to get them in chests or trade some eberron dragonshard fragments for the minor xp elixir ;) And they do not make your character more powerful like ship buffs :)

You pay for ship buffs in the form of Amenities. You can also use real life money to purchase the gold seals. A player can also purchase exp elixirs using in-game currency. Yes they do make you character better, in the form of reducing the exp grind. Besides, you can get a experience bonus airship buff.

pHo3nix
05-23-2011, 05:26 AM
Besides, you can get a experience bonus airship buff.

That's the only reason that sometimes makes me visit the ship on my TRs :)

Alyssia
05-23-2011, 05:27 AM
From what I have seen, it seems like the people against this idea (at least the ones posting here) really are not against the idea as such, but rather the whole concept of ship buffs. However, as we will have ship buffs other way, I really do not see anything negative with this change; all it does is lowering frustration before going into quests/raids.

No, ship buffs are not a must, but people often want to be as optimised as possible and will get them anyway so this really would not change the difficulty of anything.

roryk27
05-23-2011, 05:30 AM
Nope, they are fine, but they are not the same as ship buffs cause you pay for them, unless you are lucky enough to get them in chests or trade some eberron dragonshard fragments for the minor xp elixir ;) And they do not make your character more powerful like ship buffs :)

In a way most have paid for ship buffs through astral diamonds.. Unless they were lucky enough to find those in chests or win the DDO lottery to get some.

But if the used no astral diamond to get their ship then they only paid plat for a ship.

So then should the people who used astral diamonds to get a ship be able to keep their buffs in public since they in a way paid for them, while the ones who used plat for a ship have them run and disappear on death?

Gkar
05-23-2011, 05:32 AM
Must we have every Week this discussion?

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3804853#post3804853

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=310436

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317230&page=2

Yes, until it is implimented or a dev actually comments on the fact that it will be implimented or gives a darn good reason why it won't be.

Gkar
05-23-2011, 05:36 AM
It's not a challenge but if you want them go and get them..if you are lazy(like me) you can avoid them, there's no quest that needs ship buffs to be completed.

The issue is people DO go get them, and often don't get them until the group is full so they don't run out, and you have to wait while they do. As a result the current mechanic damages gameplay by adding "sit around and wait for the group to finish buffing on their ship" time.

Infant
05-23-2011, 05:40 AM
I think that ship buffs should only provide out-of-combat benefits (xp bonus, maybe some skill bonuses, teleports, binding point, etc...) or at least scale with level. Just started a new toon and realized how incredibly much easier the harbor quests are with ship buffs (I know, harbor quests are incredibly easy anyway, but still... these buffs remove the remaining challenge at all). This is just my opinion and one can see that many people will disagree

However, if the buffs are to stay how they are now, I would prefer shorter duration (30 mins?) and a stopped timer in public areas -- just for convenience and to start quests faster.

Infant

PwnHammer40K
05-23-2011, 08:39 AM
agree... might as well make ship buffs permanent and applied upon login. I also would like auto complete button upon entering dungeon. God-mode would be nice too ......
~sigh~Chore =/= Challenge.

There are things called Dictionaries that you may have heard about, look up those two words in one sometime.

Gkar
05-23-2011, 08:47 AM
I think that ship buffs should only provide out-of-combat benefits (xp bonus, maybe some skill bonuses, teleports, binding point, etc...) or at least scale with level. Just started a new toon and realized how incredibly much easier the harbor quests are with ship buffs (I know, harbor quests are incredibly easy anyway, but still... these buffs remove the remaining challenge at all). This is just my opinion and one can see that many people will disagree


Most of us argued that in Lama, but the ship has long since sailed now. Ships have been sold for REAL cash based on the value of the shrines so it is unlikely they will change them at this point

KillEveryone
05-23-2011, 10:16 AM
The only ship buff that I really care about when leveling is the XP buff. Since I'm on the ship getting the XP shrine, I'll grab the other buffs because it doesn't really take too long to grab them. I'll also solo or IP the lfm so I'll have my buffs before others join. If someone wants to take the time to get buffs after they join my lfm, it doesn't matter to me. They just have to be fast enough to get in before I finish.

I wouldn't mind having the buffs pause in public though. It would save some time not having to run back to the ship as often.

Pape_27
05-24-2011, 09:52 AM
I really hope you are not the man I think you are.


h4x?

it is...

Darkrok
05-24-2011, 12:04 PM
Most of the people arguing against this change don't like ship buffs period.

If we have ship buffs they should pause in public areas. Just like xp pots. Just like hireling timers. This has nothing to do with liking ship buffs or not - it's whether ship buffs should be implemented like all of the other buffs that carry on into a dungeon (other than the house buffs which I think should also pause when not in a dungeon).

stoopid_cowboy
05-24-2011, 12:16 PM
PLEASE make it so ship buffs don't run down in public instances. Wouldn't it be nice if after a quest people go grab ship buffs and then find a group instead of not knowing if they're going to find a group then being like "hey guys wait I need to grab ship buffs" or if you do grab them and then you have to wait on other people while your's run down? That's horrible! Please fix.

I can't beleive it has not been said! "Permanant buffs in the lobster"
Well, until AA pwnage happens and kills you. :D

/not signed

Buff, then quest

yuda :D

Gkar
05-24-2011, 12:30 PM
I can't beleive it has not been said! "Permanant buffs in the lobster"
Well, until AA pwnage happens and kills you. :D

/not signed

Buff, then quest

yuda :D

I've not a PvPer but your /notsigned reason makes no sense to me. How is it overpowered or problematic that somene who has fought in PvP for more than an hour doesn't have to run back to his ship and rebuff before continuing?

porq
05-24-2011, 02:12 PM
hahahaha...oh man.

Let the fun begin anew.

KillEveryone
05-24-2011, 02:46 PM
I can't beleive it has not been said! "Permanant buffs in the lobster"
Well, until AA pwnage happens and kills you. :D

/not signed

Buff, then quest

yuda :D

So this is a PvP reason then.

PvP will now be effecting my PvE experience.

Remove PvP.

ButtersStotch
05-24-2011, 03:01 PM
I would like the ship buffs to be paused in public areas, just so I don't have to wait twice as long for a raid to fill. Having seven different people say, 'I'll be there soon -- I just need to go buff' is mildly frustrating for me. This becomes -incredibly- frustrating when those seven people do it before the party is filled.. then feel the need to run back for more buffs because eleven minutes ticked away while we were waiting. We raided without ship buffs before. We -could- raid without them again. Until that day comes, however, I wouldn't mind a pause to keep the masses on the go.