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View Full Version : The Quivering Quiver... make it stop



Mjoll
05-16-2011, 07:57 AM
As it works now the quiver has a chance to generate a stack of 20 arrows whenever you get hit in melee, up to a total of 10 different arrow types and the quiver can hold 300 arrows/type. Which is cool.

What is not cool is that once you reach the maximum amount of arrows of one type any other newly generated arrows of the same type go into your inventory, often flooding it in a matter of minutes.

So I'm suggesting one of two fixes:
- generate nothing for arrow types that have reached maximum quiver stack size
- generate other types of arrows for arrow types that have reached maximum quiver stack size

pjw
05-16-2011, 08:54 AM
...

So I'm suggesting one of two fixes:
- generate nothing for arrow types that have reached maximum quiver stack size
- generate other types of arrows for arrow types that have reached maximum quiver stack size

Hey, it's a chaotic/xoriat quest line.

I"d suggest tasty ham once an arrow type is full. Or lumps of coal.

kyleann
05-16-2011, 09:40 AM
Hey, it's a chaotic/xoriat quest line.

I"d suggest tasty ham once an arrow type is full. Or lumps of coal.

Hamster thrown weapons, which can be use one of two ways...Hamsters thrown AS weapons, or Hamsters throwing shurikens from your shoulder. "Go For the eyes Boo!!"

FooWonk
05-16-2011, 09:43 AM
/not signed

I prefer my simpler solution: unequip the quiver if you don't want the excess arrows. Also, if you're quiver is getting full, you're obviously not using a bow.

NUDS
05-16-2011, 09:43 AM
Hey, it's a chaotic/xoriat quest line.

I"d suggest tasty ham once an arrow type is full. Or lumps of coal.

Yes!! Especially tasty ham(om nom nom!)!

Almost all my characters have the quivering quiver from farming the chain for the bracers. A portable chaos orb to generate delicious ham would be epic :P

Dulcimerist
05-16-2011, 10:22 AM
Having another quiver in your backpack set to auto-gather doesn't catch the excess ammo? :(

Vengeance777
05-16-2011, 10:36 AM
Having another quiver in your backpack set to auto-gather doesn't catch the excess ammo? :(

It does. Both my extra quivers were receiving the excess Xoriat arrows.

brian14
05-16-2011, 10:44 AM
Does Quivering Quiver produce arrows even when not equipped?

chodelord
05-16-2011, 10:53 AM
my quiver produced +3 xoriat shocking arrows that I could sell once....

Jamma
05-16-2011, 01:02 PM
Hamster thrown weapons, which can be use one of two ways...Hamsters thrown AS weapons, or Hamsters throwing shurikens from your shoulder. "Go For the eyes Boo!!"

I thought FvS's already got the second option..

Mjoll
05-16-2011, 01:10 PM
/not signed

I prefer my simpler solution: unequip the quiver if you don't want the excess arrows.

The 'don't use it if you don't like it' solutions don't help me, they get rid of both excess arrows and arrows that are not in excess.


Also, if you're quiver is getting full, you're obviously not using a bow.
My quiver getting full means that I want to use the arrows whenever I feel like it and not because I'm trying to stop the arrows from flooding my inventory which is bad game design.

And yes if I want to generate arrows fast I will obviously not use a bow. To generate arrows I have to get hit. To get hit I have to use a bow in melee range of the mobs but then what's the point of using a ranged weapon if I intentionally let the mobs hit me. So when I need more xoriat arrows I have to swap to melee and from an archer's point of view the 'melee > generate arrows > range' process looks like bad design again.


Having another quiver in your backpack set to auto-gather doesn't catch the excess ammo? :(

That is one possible solution but having to carry 1-2 more quivers to fix inventory clutter problems is ironic.

Shade
05-16-2011, 01:17 PM
Yea I found this out the hard way too.. Tanking horoth with it on... ugh took me forever to loot after destroying those hundreds of arrows.

Would be really nice if it stoped generating once any stack hits 300.. Or even better if we could toggle its ability.

Could be a nice new tech for all guards actually, since some quests/areas you want all your guards disabled, but may not want your gear off..
EG: Hound, Let sleeping dust lie.. Anywhere you may kill things you dont want dead.

Could be an option like - rightclick - disable item. Which keeps it equiped, but disables all/most of its features. (should keep the basic benefits of the item, like say if its armor, the ac, or if its a simply +X stat accesory.. but nothing more complex to keep the coding simple)

Drfirewater79
05-16-2011, 05:58 PM
/not signed

I prefer my simpler solution: unequip the quiver if you don't want the excess arrows. Also, if you're quiver is getting full, you're obviously not using a bow.

While normally i might agree with this concept it doesnt work for the quiver well .. ... what they need is to make this area epic so that you can have a epic quiver with unlimited arrow slots.

Or some sort of limiter like perhaps only get arrows when the mobs fail a crit against you (that way your only getting arrows on a mob swing of 18-20 that your ac was high enough to avoid)

Glenalth
05-16-2011, 07:49 PM
Unequipping is the way to go, just like any other guard in the game when you don't want it to fire off.

Personally I'm funneling the more exciting arrows into my main thin quivers and dumping the rest of them.

RandomKeypress
05-17-2011, 12:49 AM
A lot of the Xoriat stuff has a sting in the tail - I thought that the inventory problem was a deliberate choice, a la 'The Magician's Apprentice'. Really handy use of magic, but it gets out of hand...

Tsuarok
05-17-2011, 06:05 AM
snip

Could be an option like - rightclick - disable item. Which keeps it equiped, but disables all/most of its features. (should keep the basic benefits of the item, like say if its armor, the ac, or if its a simply +X stat accesory.. but nothing more complex to keep the coding simple)

Yes, wouldn't want to strain the programmers.

Mjoll
05-17-2011, 06:34 AM
A lot of the Xoriat stuff has a sting in the tail - I thought that the inventory problem was a deliberate choice, a la 'The Magician's Apprentice'. Really handy use of magic, but it gets out of hand...

The quiver already has a 'Xoriat touch' like most items from the Harbinger chain. But while the other items apply a penalty to a skill or stat or they have a negative effect that procs when you get hit the quiver's positive effect procs when you get hit.

Having a positive effect on an archery item proc when you get hit in melee sounds pretty twisted and sick for all the Xoriat related lore and roleplaying purposes, there is no need to add the quiver overflow effect on top of that.

xberto
05-17-2011, 07:32 AM
I think the quiver is fine how it is. If your using a bow when manyshot comes up, you dont have a problem. If your a melee that refuses to unequip then your just looking for something to complain about.

/notsigned

Lifeblood
05-17-2011, 10:49 AM
The Quivering Quiver... make it stop

I hear saltpeter helps with that

Hokiewa
05-17-2011, 10:59 AM
/notsigned

I like the madness of it

Doganpc
05-17-2011, 11:26 AM
To generate arrows I have to get hit. To get hit I have to use a bow in melee range of the mobs but then what's the point of using a ranged weapon if I intentionally let the mobs hit me.
First off... Point Blank Shot?

Secondly, I'm guessing something prevents you from destroying stacks of arrows. Either you're really frugal and want to sell them all or you're going so fast through the quest that you don't have time to stop and destroy stacks of excess arrows.

Dogan
Slow is better, trust the Doctor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4mpbw68_HA

MrkGrismer
05-17-2011, 12:29 PM
I haven't managed to pull one of these quivers yet, but maybe somebody else knows. If you have another wide quiver (or denith wide quiver, or even ddo store one) set to autogather do the excess arrows go in there automatically?

Waylayer
05-17-2011, 12:42 PM
My only issue with the quiver is, generated arrows don't go to it first.

I carry multiple quivers; It seems that the generated arrows first fill up my alternate quivers, before filling the quivering quiver. This means I have to either:

Get rid of my extra quivers, and their specialty arrows; and deal with pack space issues when the QQ is full, or

Go through my regular quivers, move the xoriat arrows into my pack; and then tell the QQ to gather them.

Ok, I do have one other complaint - I spent a very long time trying to figure out why I suddenly had a negative level that I could not get rid of; it seems that anarchic xoriat arrows were the culprit :)

Postumus
05-17-2011, 01:00 PM
. Also, if you're quiver is getting full, you're obviously not using a bow.

Right?

MrkGrismer
05-17-2011, 01:03 PM
My only issue with the quiver is, generated arrows don't go to it first.

I carry multiple quivers; It seems that the generated arrows first fill up my alternate quivers, before filling the quivering quiver. This means I have to either:

Get rid of my extra quivers, and their specialty arrows; and deal with pack space issues when the QQ is full, or

Go through my regular quivers, move the xoriat arrows into my pack; and then tell the QQ to gather them.

Ok, I do have one other complaint - I spent a very long time trying to figure out why I suddenly had a negative level that I could not get rid of; it seems that anarchic xoriat arrows were the culprit :)

Is the QQ in your upper-left most slot on your first tab? (edit: ignore this, I was feebleminded at the time - duh!)

(I guess this post answers my question tho ;) )

WirelessJoe
05-17-2011, 02:04 PM
/not signed

...if you're quiver is getting full, you're obviously not using a bow.

Or you're getting hit too often.

FooWonk
05-17-2011, 02:39 PM
Or you're getting hit too often.

That is illogical. If you're getting hit that much, and aren't dead, you're probably not using a bow (unless you're suggesting there are non-squishy archers in the game).

===

In Sins, it was fun to open the empty quiver and watch arrows pop into it during red alerts. After the second red alert, some of the arrow types where already overfilling into inventory. By the end of the quest, the quiver was full. Funny thing is, that character never uses a bow and unequipped the quiver after that one Sins quest.

My odd-ball ranger/monk build uses a bow to many shot as he closes on mobs. The quiver is kind of useless as 3000 arrows - which for a character that primarily flanks can take several days of questing to fill from proc - will be emptied in two or three raids/quests.

===

I'd find the quiver altogether more useful if it generated returning arrows that drop upon quest exit. But complaining that the quiver is generating too many arrows, makes no sense at all. For an actual archer, or even a ranger that only uses arrows with multishot when closing on mobs, the quiver doesn't proc often enough.

Waylayer
05-17-2011, 03:00 PM
That is illogical. If you're getting hit that much, and aren't dead, you're probably not using a bow (unless you're suggesting there are non-squishy archers in the game).

===

I'd find the quiver altogether more useful if it generated returning arrows that drop upon quest exit. But complaining that the quiver is generating too many arrows, makes no sense at all. For an actual archer, or even a ranger that only uses arrows with multishot when closing on mobs, the quiver doesn't proc often enough.

My other complaints aside - this is true. I only use my bow when multi-shot is "the right thing to do" (which is seldom more than twice a quest); and regularly find that my QQ is empty.

I know that being an exploiter is at least partially to blame; still I really want to like this quiver, and am really tired of falling back on House-D arrows - every other quest.

Postumus
05-17-2011, 03:31 PM
I only use my bow when multi-shot is "the right thing to do" (which is seldom more than twice a quest);

I always thought multi-shot was the 'right thing to do' every time I could click on it again.

Glenalth
05-17-2011, 03:45 PM
I always thought multi-shot was the 'right thing to do' every time I could click on it again.

It is not.

Pulling boss aggro at inappropriate times is bad. Let aggro build before blasting it or find an inaccessible perch.
Blasting a single trash mob is bad. Waiting until you have several to mow through will maximize your damage.

FooWonk
05-17-2011, 04:34 PM
I always thought multi-shot was the 'right thing to do' every time I could click on it again.

In my tests with my odd-ball Drow Ninja-Spy-Tempest-Exploiter, this is not the case.

Lit2 longbow w/Force Ritual with many-shot and flaming Xoriat Arrows
w/Wind Howler Bracers
w/Divine Power
---versus---
Lit2 short sword w/ Force Ritual (main hand) &
Epic Small Blade w/Force Burst Ritual (off hand) with Haste Boost I
w/Charged Gauntlets

The short swords win hands down. I am pretty sure that well-equipped melee will out-DPS manyshot in almost every case.

AA are the one exception, as slayer arrows add phenomenal burst damage.

Every other character with manyshot (especially tempests), should only be using it as they're closing on a target or when range attacks are the only option (e.g., kiting shadows, in DQ and so on). And like I said before, even these casual archer will burn through the arrows faster than the quiver can generate.

Glenalth
05-17-2011, 05:18 PM
In my tests with my odd-ball Drow Ninja-Spy-Tempest-Exploiter, this is not the case.
....

Not sure what sort of testing you did on this... The higher rate of attack during Manyshot, even with it being a few points less damage per hit due to racial melee weapons, should be doing more damage. Throw in the added bonuses of breaking DR with Lit II and hitting multiple targets the numbers are even more lopsided towards ranged for those 20 seconds.

Glenalth
05-17-2011, 05:22 PM
And like I said before, even these casual archer will burn through the arrows faster than the quiver can generate.

I did run the new warehouse quest using just arrows generated from the quiver.

Starting with nothing, I used only arrows generated during the quest. It went pretty well and there were very few times that I had no arrows and had to get hit to make more.

You're right that it's not enough to depend on completely, but they build up pretty fast if you don't have AC. Probably enough to use them every other quest if you really wanted to go that route. I throw away most of the arrows and just keep the fancy ones though.

Mjoll
05-18-2011, 06:13 AM
In Sins, it was fun to open the empty quiver and watch arrows pop into it during red alerts. After the second red alert, some of the arrow types where already overfilling into inventory. By the end of the quest, the quiver was full. Funny thing is, that character never uses a bow and unequipped the quiver after that one Sins quest.

My odd-ball ranger/monk build uses a bow to many shot as he closes on mobs. The quiver is kind of useless as 3000 arrows - which for a character that primarily flanks can take several days of questing to fill from proc - will be emptied in two or three raids/quests.

So a non archer character generates a lot of arrows in one of the quests with the most numerous mobs per encounter, teleporting mobs on top of that. Ok. So? How does this help an archer when they run something other than Sins?

You admit that your inventory was overflowing with arrows. You also admit that you unequipped the quiver when you finished the quest, probably because of the overflowing problem. And I signaled the exact same facts in the OP but for some reason we are on different sides of the fence when it comes to solving the overflowing issues.


I'd find the quiver altogether more useful if it generated returning arrows that drop upon quest exit. But complaining that the quiver is generating too many arrows, makes no sense at all. For an actual archer, or even a ranger that only uses arrows with multishot when closing on mobs, the quiver doesn't proc often enough.
That's a strawman, what I said and what you think I said are different things. I never said that the quiver generates too many arrows (if I would have had a problem with that I would have asked for the proc rate to be lowered) but that excess arrows keep pouring into inventory, my solutions being aimed at fixing the latter and not the former.


First off... Point Blank Shot?
Every Arcane Archer has PBS but most AAs' style of play is about not getting hit. And PBS works within 30 feet of the target so I can benefit from PBS's effects without taking damage.



Secondly, I'm guessing something prevents you from destroying stacks of arrows. Either you're really frugal and want to sell them all or you're going so fast through the quest that you don't have time to stop and destroy stacks of excess arrows.

This. If for you stopping and destroying stacks of excess arrows is the normal thing to do for me it is just worthless micromanagement. The thrill and adrenaline rush I get when I stop to destroy the arrows can only be compared to the excitement generated by the destruction of scrolls, potions, masterwork arrows and bolts that I get when I loot gold piles in Tor.

FooWonk
05-18-2011, 07:10 AM
Not sure what sort of testing you did on this... The higher rate of attack during Manyshot, even with it being a few points less damage per hit due to racial melee weapons, should be doing more damage. Throw in the added bonuses of breaking DR with Lit II and hitting multiple targets the numbers are even more lopsided towards ranged for those 20 seconds.

I tested against a training dummy. There are definitely situations where multiple targets with improved precision manyshot is no doubt better.

Racial bonuses aren't the difference in damage it's just that the attack rate isn't actually that much higher...tempest II, wind stance II, haste boost I, small blade double strike +6%...versus manyshot. I'd bet a fighter with capstone, tempest III, pure monk, frenzied barbarian all to have higher continuous DPS than an archer will receive from just manyshot.

Like I said before, it's a different story with slayer arrows.

All this is irrelevant to the thread: If you don't want your QQ to generate arrows, unequip it. If you're overflowing with arrows, unequip it because you're not using a bow to begin with.

Emili
05-18-2011, 06:16 PM
/not signed

I prefer my simpler solution: unequip the quiver if you don't want the excess arrows. Also, if you're quiver is getting full, you're obviously not using a bow.
He could be using a bow but within closer ranges or he could play a ranger class which happen to use melee weapons and a bow also. It's just silly to build a character and not do both melee and range styles.

Anyway he should unequip it all the same...

LordArkan
05-18-2011, 08:05 PM
He could be using a bow but within closer ranges or he could play a ranger class which happen to use melee weapons and a bow also. It's just silly to build a character and not do both melee and range styles.

My tempest ranger uses manyshot 1-2 times per dungeon. I have yet to break 200 arrows total in the quiver.

Mjoll
05-19-2011, 04:32 PM
The quiver has two negative effects. One of them is that it procs only when you take damage. Which is fine, guards and conc opp items work the same way.

The other negative effect is that the quiver can spam your inventory with arrows. While most items with a negative effect have that effect act as a debuff or a penalty to a skill/stat this quiver is the only item in the game that plays with your inventory and with your time.

What I'm suggesting is a solution that won't discriminate against bow users or melees or people that unequip the quiver or those that don't or people that carry extra quivers to handle the unneeded arrows or those that don't carry them or people that generate 5000 arrows per quest or those that generate 20, a solution that can help more than the 'unequip it' solution. Because I can't see how someone not wasting time on trashing excess arrows will disrupt someone else's play.

Marcus-Hawkeye
05-19-2011, 06:28 PM
"Go For the eyes Boo!!" +1 for the BG reference

Astraghal
05-19-2011, 09:31 PM
It took the Quivering Quiver to make me realise that I shouldn't even be using a quiver, I've never used a bow and it's a pain to empty.

coolpenguin410
05-20-2011, 07:37 AM
This really puts the value of AC into perspective. My AC tank, my only character with this item, does not see the quiver proc very often, even when in DPS mode.

I got the quiver the first day the update was released and have been playing him on and off ever since. Even after tanking in ToD a few times (3 or 4), I only have a few full stacks.

muffinlad
05-20-2011, 09:51 AM
I hear where the OP is coming from, I just don't agree.

This is a flavor item as well as a reward. It's down side is that it increases the possiblity that you will have additional actions to perform. It's upside is that it is giving you lots of arrows. It is crazy- and crazy has lots of disadvantages.

It should stay as it is.

muffinmad

drac317
05-20-2011, 11:23 AM
just get a house d wide quiver for the overflow