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View Full Version : Add a timer to Blood of Dragons



seobanio
05-13-2011, 02:47 PM
I think the (relatively) easy access to the Blood of Dragons is a good thing. There is nothing more annoying when leveling up than to have to take only the spells you want at end game because you will have capped long before you could have switched everything. So the blood is a nice convenience, so long as it doesn't change the flavor of the game.

I would add a timer to the blood, because at present a sorcerer could essentially prep spells in anticipation of a specific quest at will, rather than this being a slow and difficult process. I think giving the blood a 6 or 9 day timer would ensure its utility while keeping the current flavor of sorcs and fvs.

GotSomeQuestions
05-13-2011, 02:50 PM
It only lasts an hour. Or are you proposing something like the 1-week reincarnation timer?

Grosbeak07
05-13-2011, 02:56 PM
I'm against putting a timer in, if it really becomes an issue... raise the TP cost and that will prevent it.

Thrudh
05-13-2011, 03:00 PM
I say put in a pot in the store that lets wizard fast-cast like sorcs...

I HATE that sorcs can buy spell-swap which is one the main things wizards have going for them.

Waylayer
05-13-2011, 03:00 PM
This is just a question.

Are they easy to come by? All of the appropriate classes received two, i think, in the last patch; and one is available as 75 Agent of Argo - favor reward.

If there aren't other ways to get them, I don't see it as an issue. If they are readily available, a timer equal to enhancement reset - is probably reasonable. I.E. there probably is little need for a sorc to change their spells, if they aren't changing the fundamental design of their character. I don't see a longer timer as necessary. The fact that I can forget everything I ever knew about Fire and instead master Ice (every 3 days) should apply to spells as well as enhancements.

seobanio
05-13-2011, 03:04 PM
This is just a question.

Are they easy to come by? All of the appropriate classes received two, i think, in the last patch; and one is available as 75 Agent of Argo - favor reward.

If there aren't other ways to get them, I don't see it as an issue. If they are readily available, a timer equal to enhancement reset - is probably reasonable. I.E. there probably is little need for a sorc to change their spells, if they aren't changing the fundamental design of their character. I don't see a longer timer as necessary. The fact that I can forget everything I ever knew about Fire and instead master Ice (every 3 days) should apply to spells as well as enhancements.


My post is prefaced on the idea that they are easy to come by. I've seen quite a few of them drop and I can't remember where all of them did but iirc, i've seen them in both tor and eVON6. Perhaps they are not as easy to come by as I am thinking, in which case I would agree that it is not really an issue. I might just be in a situation where I happen to be doing a lot of dragon fights so I have seen a lot of them drop.

Varr
05-13-2011, 03:05 PM
I say put in a pot in the store that lets wizard fast-cast like sorcs...

I HATE that sorcs can buy spell-swap which is one the main things wizards have going for them.

Hehe, I remember a few years back posting in thread after thread about how upcoming alignment changes, and feat changes, and spell swaps, and enhancment changes were all the devil. I still would prefer a build and live with mistakes approach. Rigid, unyealding, dont like it, made a mistake.....reroll approach.

I was on an island and that is certainly more dramatic than your statment, but I was feeling a moment of remanicing triggered by your comment.

seobanio
05-13-2011, 03:06 PM
It only lasts an hour. Or are you proposing something like the 1-week reincarnation timer?

Yeah, like there is a current timer on spell swaps: you have to wait 3 days. But if you have spare bloods you can use them whenever you feel like. I think a 6 or 9 day timer is good because imo it should be 2 to 3 times what the normal spell swap timer is.

Habreno
05-13-2011, 03:09 PM
/Signed. No reason you should be able to guzzle them down back to back.

Asketes
05-13-2011, 03:13 PM
/Signed. No reason you should be able to guzzle them down back to back.

If you find them, why not?

Waylayer
05-13-2011, 03:17 PM
My post is prefaced on the idea that they are easy to come by. I've seen quite a few of them drop and I can't remember where all of them did but iirc, i've seen them in both tor and eVON6. Perhaps they are not as easy to come by as I am thinking, in which case I would agree that it is not really an issue. I might just be in a situation where I happen to be doing a lot of dragon fights so I have seen a lot of them drop.

I was not aware that they dropped as loot. Since they apparently do, I fully support a 3-day timer; as spell-change shouldn't be about I could really use d-door for this quest - but rather about "ok, I really don't like Fire Savant and want to go back to Ice".

I was fortunate enough to win a lesser heart of wood in the lottery, and was able to use that and my two elixirs to try out 3 of the 4 PREs. I guess i need to try and find two more elixirs (one to try AIR and one to use on my final choice).

Gkar
05-13-2011, 03:20 PM
I was not aware that they dropped as loot. Since they apparently do, I fully support a 3-day timer; as spell-change shouldn't be about I could really use d-door for this quest - but rather about "ok, I really don't like Fire Savant and want to go back to Ice".

I was fortunate enough to win a lesser heart of wood in the lottery, and was able to use that and my two elixirs to try out 3 of the 4 PREs. I guess i need to try and find two more elixirs (one to try AIR and one to use on my final choice).

While I would EVENTUALLY support a timer, for the next couple months people are still trying out the options and respecing their characters. (That is afterall why they gave everyone two). Let people mess around for a while, its not gamebreaking.

Cardtrick
05-13-2011, 03:50 PM
I was not aware that they dropped as loot. Since they apparently do, I fully support a 3-day timer; as spell-change shouldn't be about I could really use d-door for this quest - but rather about "ok, I really don't like Fire Savant and want to go back to Ice".

They drop as loot . . . but only in chests that can drop dragon scales (Tor, VON, Mired, maybe Prey?). You have to kill a dragon for them. They seem pretty rare to me . . . I just can't see them becoming so commonplace that sorcererrs use them to prep spells specifically for a given quest like wizards.

Thesoulgazer
05-13-2011, 03:59 PM
I say put in a pot in the store that lets wizard fast-cast like sorcs...

I HATE that sorcs can buy spell-swap which is one the main things wizards have going for them.

Wizards can buy mana pots and keep quicken on.

Thrudh
05-13-2011, 04:29 PM
Wizards can buy mana pots and keep quicken on.

Okay, give us a pot in the store that reduces our spell-timers

Der_Incubo
05-13-2011, 04:40 PM
My post is prefaced on the idea that they are easy to come by. I've seen quite a few of them drop and I can't remember where all of them did but iirc, i've seen them in both tor and eVON6. Perhaps they are not as easy to come by as I am thinking, in which case I would agree that it is not really an issue. I might just be in a situation where I happen to be doing a lot of dragon fights so I have seen a lot of them drop.

I had one drop, it was either delerium or the lordsmarch chain. Dont recall which mission it was, just remember passing it to the sorc in my party.

Cardtrick
05-13-2011, 05:26 PM
I had one drop, it was either delerium or the lordsmarch chain. Dont recall which mission it was, just remember passing it to the sorc in my party.

More likely Mired in Kobolds. It's next to Delerium, but it has a dragon scale chest.

oradafu
05-13-2011, 05:34 PM
Not sure if anyone noticed, but when I got to 75 favor for Agents of Argonnessen, the selection expanded to include several types of Siberys Dragonshard and I believe it was 2 Blood of Dragons.

Aranel12
05-13-2011, 05:39 PM
Not sure if anyone noticed, but when I got to 75 favor for Agents of Argonnessen, the selection expanded to include several types of Siberys Dragonshard and I believe it was 2 Blood of Dragons.

yes it was a portable hole, siberys dragonshard (blue) and 2 blood of dragons.

The drop rate seems rare in tor even if you run the dragon fight 7 times depending on luck you might just see 1 of them drop in a group of six.

They should drop any dragon chest so they should be able to drop in mired kobolds and in prey.

sirgog
05-13-2011, 07:16 PM
They drop as loot . . . but only in chests that can drop dragon scales (Tor, VON, Mired, maybe Prey?). You have to kill a dragon for them. They seem pretty rare to me . . . I just can't see them becoming so commonplace that sorcererrs use them to prep spells specifically for a given quest like wizards.

Six Prey with dragons runs this life; no Bloods seen at all. Those dragons are no longer lucrative XP with all the repetition penalties, so won't be hitting them again for a couple weeks.

Saw two in my Tor blooding run.

Kalari
05-13-2011, 07:24 PM
Thing about the favor ones is they bind to the character who chooses them so unless your tring your melee I wouldnt grab them.

Also you can buy them in the ddo store which is just wrong I have both wizards and sorcerers and this bugs me to no end its like alright give people absolutely no reason now to ever roll up a wizard got a spell you need quickly? slide your card buy a blood and bam you now can change out spells an will :( /slippery slope covered with oil...

Hokiewa
05-13-2011, 07:26 PM
I say put in a pot in the store that lets wizard fast-cast like sorcs...

I HATE that sorcs can buy spell-swap which is one the main things wizards have going for them.

While playing mostly sorcs (as far as arcanes go) I generally agree this takes away from the "theme" of being a sorc.

That being said, cooldown times were reduced for wizzies, quicken is a pretty easy feat to slot etc...

The cooldown time reduction was my "dragon blood potion" moment because I can't agree with you all the time Thrudh....It has become disturbing.........

Ridag
05-13-2011, 07:33 PM
The ones that drop from dragons are bound to character, so the market will not be flooded with these items.

No Sorc, Bard or FvS is going to use these to change spells at will for a quest. It's just not feasible when they are only available as a rare (btc) drop, 150 TP through the DDO store or the 2 you get from argo favor to change spells for every quest. For the most part spell swapping is unnecessary anyway, a Sorc can carry every spell needed and get the job done in any quest.

I would not agree with a 3 day timer because you can swap enhancements more often then every 3 days. You can use a feat swap to force an enhancement reset, so you could change enhancements every 1.5 days if you really wanted to. I'd say that 1 day would be an appropriate timer if the devs felt that one was necessary.

Please realize that to swap spells a Sorc, Bard or FvS still needs to go to the trainer, they cannot swap spells at a shrine as a Cleric or Wizard can and I think those classes asking for items to increase casting speed or decrease cooldowns is flat out laughable. Class envy is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on these forums, especially when the game is at a period where all caster classes have clearly defined and useful roles.

EDIT: For the record I play a Wizard as well as a Sorcerer, and I've played through 80 levels of each on different characters. Blood of Dragons is in no way equal to the Wizards ability to swap spell and should not be compared as such.

safekeeper13
05-13-2011, 07:33 PM
If they want to spend TPs to change spells every day ,let them. Its their loss not yours.

Thrudh
05-13-2011, 07:58 PM
If they want to spend TPs to change spells every day ,let them. Its their loss not yours.

Fine, if I want to spend TPs to fast-cast, let me... It's my loss, not theirs.

The10man
05-13-2011, 08:08 PM
Fine, if I want to spend TPs to fast-cast, let me... It's my loss, not theirs.

I think they should be exclusive. No timer, just a one time use. Then if you want to buy/earn another fine. At this point I am wondering why I play a wizzy at all. Sorcs got the gold mine with the ice prison thing this update and with the changes wizzys def got the shaft.

Ridag
05-13-2011, 08:18 PM
I think they should be exclusive. No timer, just a one time use. Then if you want to buy/earn another fine. At this point I am wondering why I play a wizzy at all. Sorcs got the gold mine with the ice prison thing this update and with the changes wizzys def got the shaft.

Icy Prison is being fixed Monday, it was never intended to work on raid bosses.

Wizards (especially PMs) are still the stronger and more versatile of the arcanes when it comes to all matters DC or Spell Pen, and Sorcerers are very focused DPS spell casters.

Again - Blood of Dragons allows a Sorcerer, Bard or FvS to swap spells at the trainer for a one hour window. They cannot swap at shrines. The item in no way undermines the Wizard class, nor will Wizards be rejected from groups over Sorcerers because of this.

I would love to hear an example of how a Sorcerer (Bard or FvS) could make use of this feature to get a hand up over their counter parts. What are they going to be swapping in that has Wizards up in arms?!?

I must admit that I've seen some surprising complaints on the DDO forums, but this one is quickly rocketing up the top 10.

Kalari
05-13-2011, 11:15 PM
Icy Prison is being fixed Monday, it was never intended to work on raid bosses.

Wizards (especially PMs) are still the stronger and more versatile of the arcanes when it comes to all matters DC or Spell Pen, and Sorcerers are very focused DPS spell casters.

Again - Blood of Dragons allows a Sorcerer, Bard or FvS to swap spells at the trainer for a one hour window. They cannot swap at shrines. The item in no way undermines the Wizard class, nor will Wizards be rejected from groups over Sorcerers because of this.

I would love to hear an example of how a Sorcerer (Bard or FvS) could make use of this feature to get a hand up over their counter parts. What are they going to be swapping in that has Wizards up in arms?!?

I must admit that I've seen some surprising complaints on the DDO forums, but this one is quickly rocketing up the top 10.

So you see absolutely no issue with a player buying a blood from the store when ever they feel like swapping out spells. Sure its not as convenient as doing it at a shrine but its pretty darn near close. If it had been just a random loot drop or the bound to character favor rewards no problem. But as it is you can mana pot till your hearts content via the store now any sorc with a credit card can be as versatile as a wizard between quests.

But I guess complaining about the store being an easy button is so mod 8 :/

GotSomeQuestions
05-13-2011, 11:26 PM
Fine, if I want to spend TPs to fast-cast, let me... It's my loss, not theirs.
Wizards can already spend tp/plat to overcome the sorcerer's spell point advantage. If you get a fast casting item too, then sorcerers should get an item to get spells one level sooner/have more spell slots.

But, while Blood doesn't change what sorcerers can do in any given quest, neither does a feat swap or a lesser reincarnation. But both of those have timers, and it makes sense to add one here.

Ridag
05-14-2011, 08:07 AM
So you see absolutely no issue with a player buying a blood from the store when ever they feel like swapping out spells. Sure its not as convenient as doing it at a shrine but its pretty darn near close. If it had been just a random loot drop or the bound to character favor rewards no problem. But as it is you can mana pot till your hearts content via the store now any sorc with a credit card can be as versatile as a wizard between quests.

But I guess complaining about the store being an easy button is so mod 8 :/

Wizards can pot their way to Sorc SP through the store, and that's not the same as the Sorc higher base SP. Just as Blood of Dragons is not equal to the Wizards ability to swap spells at shrines or between quests at taverns.

I think if a player is willing to spend that kind of cash on something as inane and unmeaning as spell swaps than I'm happy Turbine is getting their $$$.