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Waylayer
05-13-2011, 12:17 PM
1st For the purpose of this request, solo = 1 living player

I have just finished my solo trek to 20. I had a great time. Completed some content in all areas of the game except the subterraine (I haven't even tried going there); and have flagged for most of the raids and have completed many of the pre-raids. So, all-in-all, it is quite possible to have a reasonably fulfilling life as a soloer (I also have characters that play in groups).

That said, there is one aspect of soloing that annoys me. Quest CHAINS that are mostly soloable; but have one or two impossible to solo complete quests within the chain. I really don't mind if I can't get the optionals without another person (Delera), or if I need multiple hirelings (Xorian Cipher), but I find it extremely aggravating that I can't finish NECRO 3 - without another person to pass the gear.

So the request: When designing quest chains, please consider focusing on optionals when forcing people to get a LFM. Alternately, allow the casual setting to provide the possibility of solo completion - i.e. "Tomb of the Forbidden" could only require that a single lever be pulled.Of course, just allowing the hirelings to pull the lever (without having to utilize the gear) would also work.

Like I said, I made it to 20, there is still plenty left for me to do; but having incomplete chains annoys me to no-end.

dragons1ayer74
05-13-2011, 12:21 PM
Tomb of the Forbidden : Can be soloed with a hireling it is just annoying. Go to one side unlock but do not activate the gear. Go to the other side get hireling to pull his lever you pull yours. Then you wait the doors will eventually open up and the hireling will come out because they will not kill all the monsters on their side.

Gnorbert
05-13-2011, 12:21 PM
Well, as you said, you made it to 20. So clearly there is enough content for the soloers out there.

On the other hand, I would like to see MORE quests that require more than one person. Maybe not a specific class or stat but at least another body. More teamwork related quests.

I am against ALL content being soloable in a massively MULTIplayer online game.

GotSomeQuestions
05-13-2011, 12:23 PM
You can solo that quest with a hireling. Pull the lever on one side, but back up to cancel it. That leaves it unlocked. Park hire on that side, go to other side. Have hire pull unlocked lever, then pull yours. You'll have to wait a bit for th gate to raise but it will after a while, then you can clear both sides.

Slihthinden
05-13-2011, 12:29 PM
I am against ALL content being soloable in a massively MULTIplayer online game.

I group pretty much 90% of the time I play MMO's - but it still annoys the Hell out of me taht people assume that just because MMO is short for Massive Multiplayer Online that the "Multiplayer" portion means groups - all the multiplayer part refers to is that there is one hell of alot of players (multi) playing the game. That is all - no reference to them all grouping up into one group or anything - just the fact that they are all in the same game at the same time online.

A convention is a gathering of a whole bunch of people gathered together for one purpose - usually to gain something in knowledge or such - not everyone there is in a group or from teh same business - there are some people alone for the whole thing - but they are still there for the same purpose as the groups - it is the same concept in an MMO - we are all here for the same thing - to have fun - whether we are in a group or solo makes no difference as we all pay the same price - or not if you are ftp :P

Slihthinden

Battery
05-13-2011, 12:30 PM
Well, as you said, you made it to 20. So clearly there is enough content for the soloers out there.

On the other hand, I would like to see MORE quests that require more than one person. Maybe not a specific class or stat but at least another body. More teamwork related quests.

I am against ALL content being soloable in a massively MULTIplayer online game.

that's right I don't want to solo so I think nobody else should be allowed to either

TrinityTurtle
05-13-2011, 12:37 PM
that's right I don't want to solo so I think nobody else should be allowed to either

He said more, not all. The poster you quoted never implied that all quests should require groups. And a selection of quests for both play styles is most certainly NOT an unreasonable wish. They could also make some more solo only quests by the same token, Raiding the Giants Vault was fun.

Gnorbert
05-13-2011, 12:44 PM
that's right I don't want to solo so I think nobody else should be allowed to either

I may have phrased that in a confusing way. I am not against soloable content. The game is much better now that it allows different playstyles. What I am against is every quest being soloable. I also have issues with scaling as it's counterintuitive that a dungeon on normal setting should be easier if you are alone than if you brought 5 of your friends. I like chains and quests tha require grouping to some degree.

So I'm in favor of everyone being able to play how they want. I'm against all content in the game being designed with all styles in mind. It's perfectly ok to design some content with the assumptions that there will be more than one person there. Just as some content should be designed exclusively as a challenge to be undertaken alone.

Gnorbert
05-13-2011, 12:45 PM
He said more, not all. The poster you quoted never implied that all quests should require groups. And a selection of quests for both play styles is most certainly NOT an unreasonable wish. They could also make some more solo only quests by the same token, Raiding the Giants Vault was fun.

+1 for sifting through my apparently convoluted wording.

TrinityTurtle
05-13-2011, 12:51 PM
+1 for sifting through my apparently convoluted wording.

I do not think your wording was convoluted at all. :) And I think more of both types of quests would neatly solve everyone's problems and we can all just choose to play the ones we like. And I am noticing that i have suddenly swung from cynic to optimist, and am scaring myself. LOL

Waylayer
05-13-2011, 12:54 PM
You can solo that quest with a hireling. Pull the lever on one side, but back up to cancel it. That leaves it unlocked. Park hire on that side, go to other side. Have hire pull unlocked lever, then pull yours. You'll have to wait a bit for th gate to raise but it will after a while, then you can clear both sides.

I should have asked this at least 12 levels ago. Thank You

Waylayer
05-13-2011, 12:56 PM
Well, as you said, you made it to 20. So clearly there is enough content for the soloers out there.

On the other hand, I would like to see MORE quests that require more than one person. Maybe not a specific class or stat but at least another body. More teamwork related quests.

I am against ALL content being soloable in a massively MULTIplayer online game.

Oh, I don't disagree. Grouping is great. More quests of any kind is great too. My gripe is having a soloable chain interrupted by a non-soloable quest.

GotSomeQuestions
05-13-2011, 02:06 PM
There are many quests that are very difficult to solo. Tower of Despair, for example. But as far as I know only three are actually impossible to solo: VoN preraid, Titan preraid, Abbot raid. Well, you could solo Abbot, if you were a Cleric 20 or a dark Monk, and you got absurdly lucky in Goggles. But realistically it is impossible. Everywhere else, there are workarounds for quest mechanics.

ceiswyn
05-13-2011, 02:07 PM
Oh, I don't disagree. Grouping is great. More quests of any kind is great too. My gripe is having a soloable chain interrupted by a non-soloable quest.

So... either make all chains soloable, or make sure the non-soloable is the first one so you don't get too frustrated at the waste of time and energy?

But I'm certainly entirely open to the idea of there being more solo quests at high levels, and more stand-alone, non-soloable quests at high levels.

I liked Raiding the Giants' Vault too :)

TrinityTurtle
05-13-2011, 02:52 PM
Hn...or why not find a few dungeon buddies of like solo mind for the rare quests you can't do alone, but aren't always on you about grouping when you don't want to? That would also neatly solve the problem.

bigolbear
05-13-2011, 03:06 PM
I think all we need is a warning upon geting quest that the quest is recomended for a team of X sise and completion may not be possible for a smaller team. This already occurs but in the case of chains should be mentioned at the start of the chain.

In the case of necro - there should be a big sign saying dont go in alone. thar be evil undead and traps and puzels. (that may require a team of at least 4 people to solve)

I also realy like your idea of casual mode being designed for one person - so on casual setting only 1 lever needs to be pulled, only one pressure plate stood on etc.

PNellesen
05-13-2011, 03:34 PM
In the case of necro - there should be a big sign saying dont go, ever.

Fixed. ;)

Waylayer
05-13-2011, 03:35 PM
Hn...or why not find a few dungeon buddies of like solo mind for the rare quests you can't do alone, but aren't always on you about grouping when you don't want to? That would also neatly solve the problem.

I have characters that group. I also have a soloer. I have big plans for him, completionist - every life as a drow. Never going to happen, mind you, but he has plans.

"or make sure the non-soloable is the first one so you don't get too frustrated at the waste of time and energy?"

I could live with that, or "I think all we need is a warning upon geting quest that the quest is recomended for a team of X sise and completion may not be possible for a smaller team. This already occurs but in the case of chains should be mentioned at the start of the chain."

I could save myself some frustration by researching quests ahead of time; but I prefer to do all of my 1st runs, uninformed.

Battery
05-13-2011, 03:52 PM
I may have phrased that in a confusing way. I am not against soloable content. The game is much better now that it allows different playstyles. What I am against is every quest being soloable. I also have issues with scaling as it's counterintuitive that a dungeon on normal setting should be easier if you are alone than if you brought 5 of your friends. I like chains and quests tha require grouping to some degree.

So I'm in favor of everyone being able to play how they want. I'm against all content in the game being designed with all styles in mind. It's perfectly ok to design some content with the assumptions that there will be more than one person there. Just as some content should be designed exclusively as a challenge to be undertaken alone.

ok sorry disregard my response

LucidLTS
05-13-2011, 04:23 PM
please consider focusing on optionals when forcing people to get a LFM.

/signed

While I like to group mostly, there are times when I'm just plain ornery and want to bash things to blow off steam. If I come up against a "can't be soloed" when I'm looking for alone time I just get really ****ed at Turbine and that usually triggers a "screw you, I'll play something else" for a while. I've poured hundreds of dollars into this game, I shouldn't be made to feel like a second class citizen just because I don't want to deal with people while playing my COMPUTER GAME.

Hmm, maybe I should go solo something for a while ... :)

But seriously, it doesn't hurt anybody to have all quests have mechanics that allow solo completion. Make it faster and/or safer for groups and you'll encourage group play without driving away solo players.

BTW - I DO NOT mean it should be soloable at level, or that all optionals should be soloable. Easy isn't satisfying. I only ask for possible.

Ghoste
05-13-2011, 04:40 PM
I may have phrased that in a confusing way.
Your phrasing was fine. The confusion was 100% in the reader.

Slihthinden
05-17-2011, 12:16 PM
Heh, yea - I may have reacted over-exhuberantly - saw the word "MMO" and did not read the "Not make ALL content soloable" part - I agree that there is a place for soloable and a place for group or raid content. No way that a raid should be soloable at level or even close to at level. Maybe a way outlevelled raid, but that is dev's choice or a creative player.

So, yea, did not mean to sound overly harsh in my reply or quote - and will try to read the whole of the content on those posts heh.

Slihthinden