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emptysands
05-10-2011, 05:35 PM
There was a quirky comment about making Delera Epic in order to get Epic Carnifex, but I actually think this is a very good idea.


You are all missing the most important question here:

When will Delera's Tomb be made Epic so that we can get an Epic Carnifex?

Delera's is a fun low level chain, that pretty much everyone plays. New tactics for old friends.

Making it epic would give us more end game undead. Potential for the must-have named items to come again - Epic Carnifex, Epic Voice of the Master, Epic Cartouche or Epic Devotion - and others less useful for an epic come back - Epic Club of the Holy Flame!

Four episode quest chain which offers a new mechanism for giving rewards - high percentage chance shards/seal/scroll on chain completion. This would be offset by the end rewards being not switchable in a chest.

SaisMatters
05-10-2011, 05:36 PM
/not signed.

Sorry but making Epic=Rehashing old content is killing this game slowly IMO

Kourier
05-10-2011, 05:40 PM
Much better packs than Delera's to make epic, assuming you rehash content at all. Why Delera's? I don't even have to think when I run the quests and epic undead have to be the most unpleasant foes to fight ever. I'd much rather see something as interesting as the new pack made epic.

kmau
05-10-2011, 05:48 PM
There are other packs who deserve to be made Epic more. Whenever I think about Deleras Tomb all that comes to mind are skeletons and plain orange walls.

Aashrym
05-10-2011, 05:48 PM
STK. I want to see an epic ring of feathers. :D

Teen
05-10-2011, 05:50 PM
Epic Gianthold :)

ExK444
05-10-2011, 05:54 PM
So basically you want a popular but sort of repetitive quest chain to be made epic so you can have an Epic Club of Holy Flame (-10 enhancement bonus, bypasses DR/good). I say no.

Tuney
05-10-2011, 05:57 PM
No no no NO to Epic STK!... And instead of just "Epic Delera's" lets toss in Epic Threnal so you can have the Epic Dungeon master set!

With the two equpied you are no longer pentilized for rolling a 1 being a critical fail but on the other side. A 20 no longer grants auto success! And the Cloak has 10 charges and recharges 4 per rest . Regen goes from 1 min to 10 seconds. And that is all I got hehe

kmau
05-10-2011, 05:58 PM
STK. I want to see an epic ring of feathers. :D

Leap of faith clickie to annoy all Favored Souls!

paraplegic
05-10-2011, 06:02 PM
STK. I want to see an epic ring of feathers. :D

i might get fly!

Aashrym
05-10-2011, 06:11 PM
lol epic ring of feathers, wings and 10 charges per rest. sounds nifty to me ;)

Jahmin
05-10-2011, 06:35 PM
/signed - would be cool.


Sorry but making Epic=Rehashing old content is killing this game slowly IMO
Wrong. No new END game content is killing the game. Epic rehashes, while only a stop gap, are massively better than NOTHING :rolleyes:

soulaeon
05-10-2011, 06:44 PM
Signed.

SaisMatters
05-10-2011, 06:47 PM
/signed - would be cool.


Wrong. No new END game content is killing the game. Epic rehashes, while only a stop gap, are massively better than NOTHING :rolleyes:

You don't get more "End Game" than Epic.

Aashrym
05-10-2011, 06:53 PM
You don't get more "End Game" than Epic.

Epics are a rehash of other content. I'm not sure you are disagreeing anymore with that statement.

I don't mind the epic rehash of old content myself either. I know there was a push away from it but I like the idea of taking a level 20 into an older favorite quest chain that's been revamped more towards the level I'm at.

I wouldn't want to turn it into a focus and would prefer new content, but epic upgrades of old content can be fun too.

emptysands
05-10-2011, 06:55 PM
So basically you want a popular but sort of repetitive quest chain to be made epic so you can have an Epic Club of Holy Flame (-10 enhancement bonus, bypasses DR/good). I say no.

What part of DDO is not repetitive? Personally I think Delera's is a fun chain - good for new comers, good for TRs. Epic version of Delera's wont be the same as at level - epic traps, 25d6 fireballs from Arcane Skellies.

They could throw in a few twists - make mobs spawn on each button push in pt2, but make the optional chest more interesting. Completing the optional at the end of pt1 to get an additional chest.

Alot of the new quest packs already have crafting - adding epic crafting to this seems like a waste.

Finally - if they can spend a month or two on an Epic Delera remake, rather than 3-6 months on a new content I'd say yes. Epic Carnifex would certain make people want to run the content.

Who doesn't want to see: Epic Club of Holy Flame Elite Shroud completion - just because you can.

emptysands
05-10-2011, 07:07 PM
Epic STK has merit as well, but I think it would be tricky as unless you allowed an opener it would basically be a really long version of Chains.

I doubt something like Epic Thernal would work - too much content so big investment in dev time. Stuff that people generally run once for one item.

I also think something like Epic Gianthold is really long way away - 10 quests and 1 raid, 3 epic dragon fights - meaning a lot of dev time and QA for balancing. Huge item list spread over several quests.

Focus on the low hanging fruit - Delera being a short quest chain with the maps, traps, quest design - means new content faster.

Aashrym
05-10-2011, 07:12 PM
Epic STK has merit as well, but I think it would be tricky as unless you allowed an opener it would basically be a really long version of Chains.

I doubt something like Epic Thernal would work - too much content so big investment in dev time. Stuff that people generally run once for one item.

I also think something like Epic Gianthold is really long way away - 10 quests and 1 raid, 3 epic dragon fights - meaning a lot of dev time and QA for balancing. Huge item list spread over several quests.

Focus on the low hanging fruit - Delera being a short quest chain with the maps, traps, quest design - means new content faster.

Threnal does kind of go hand-in-hand with Deleras tho for the cloak and voice combo. Threnal could use a revamp.

Kriogen
05-11-2011, 08:06 AM
Threnal does kind of go hand-in-hand with Deleras tho for the cloak and voice combo. Threnal could use a revamp.
Epic East 3 :eek:

maha0201
05-11-2011, 08:09 AM
Epic Coil :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

On the other side epic mantle/epic voice, hmmm 5% on renown eh ?

FishieFishie
05-11-2011, 08:09 AM
epic voice of the master
+9000% xp!

Cyr
05-11-2011, 08:13 AM
You don't get more "End Game" than Epic.

At least when epics were coming out we had stuff to run. Brand new stuff at end game is preferrable, but I would MUCH rather they come out with one pack made epic each update then one new quest pack for end game per year.

grodon9999
05-11-2011, 08:34 AM
Ain't gonna happen. It's more profitable to sell NEW high level content that to epicify a pack that everyone will already buy anyway because of the loot and HUGE XP. Same thing with Gianthold, everyone buys it anyway so why bother?

Hopefully the next couple of updates will be faster that U9 and we're supposed to have a new level 20 raid in U10.

Templarion
05-11-2011, 08:38 AM
Making epic Delera would result more epic undeads. Because of that I must...

/sign

elraido
05-11-2011, 09:12 AM
Personally, more "High level" undead wouldn't be that bad of a thing. Right now the only ones we have are in Epic Wizzy King. It gives more viability for the Hunter of the Dead class, since the undead basically stop after the Orchard.

I would be all for an epic Threnal as well...but they would need to rework the mechanics of the series. Make it more like VON vs what it is now for flagging. Personally, I think an epic Retribution would be a great Holy Avenger for Paladins as well :)

Asketes
05-11-2011, 09:30 AM
hmmm

Epic Carnifex

tasty!

sirgog
05-11-2011, 09:49 AM
At least when epics were coming out we had stuff to run. Brand new stuff at end game is preferrable, but I would MUCH rather they come out with one pack made epic each update then one new quest pack for end game per year.

This (although TBH if I was Turbine I'd Epic-ify something that's a poor seller like Threnal to drive sales; or I'd Epic-ify a pack that is a lot of people's favorite pack (prob Gianthold) and up its price a bit.

I don't think Delara's would work all that well Epic, however - the monsters in there almost all attack too slowly to put up an entertaining fight.

At least in Wiz-king you have the super fast attacking mummy avengers; Delara's has nothing (unless a bunch of the casters are programmed to cast Haste).

Ever fought the archers in eWK without Halting them? It's not fun.

Truga
05-12-2011, 09:56 AM
STK. I want to see an epic ring of feathers. :D

Grants fly while equipped.

fluffybunnywilson
05-12-2011, 10:04 AM
I don't like the idea of spending large amounts of developer time on making older quest chains Epic, but Deleras is one of the few chains that I think would work really nicely with a scaled up Epic version.

Also, having an entire chain that exclusively features Undead except for a single final boss in the last quest in an Epic setting is something that some people would really enjoy (even though I know that there are also significant numbers of people who really don't like Undead quests).

Matuse
05-12-2011, 02:03 PM
While the epic carnifex would be nice, it's about the ONLY thing that would be nice. Cartouche would be the other.

Most of the named items from there are pretty one dimensional. Are you going to want +20 bluff on the epic bladed boots? I won't.

Uska
05-12-2011, 02:06 PM
Epic durks for epic muck bane:D

Uska
05-12-2011, 02:07 PM
Grants fly while equipped.

entirely broken

Aashrym
05-12-2011, 02:18 PM
While the epic carnifex would be nice, it's about the ONLY thing that would be nice. Cartouche would be the other.

Epic Cartouche could definitely have some appeal. Maybe the bow too but most likely not.

emptysands
05-15-2011, 07:57 PM
At least in Wiz-king you have the super fast attacking mummy avengers; Delara's has nothing (unless a bunch of the casters are programmed to cast Haste).


Easy answer - add some mummies! Or give the archers arcane slayer arrows - although in the chance maybe make mage armor reduce damage by 50% and let evasion work.

Especially if you break coffins - epic undead swarm with a misplaced fireball!

Nerf halt undead scroll use, but CC like web or spell cast halt undead should still work.

emptysands
05-15-2011, 08:03 PM
While the epic carnifex would be nice, it's about the ONLY thing that would be nice. Cartouche would be the other.

Most of the named items from there are pretty one dimensional. Are you going to want +20 bluff on the epic bladed boots? I won't.

Some of the stuff might be made more useful end game. Old items returning: Voice giving +2 Good Luck, +1 Loot would be an interesting choice. Sigil of Stormreach - +7 CHA, +20 Diplomacy; Silverflame Hauberk - Greater Devotion IX. Others like the Switchblade boots might just be chaff - ward of undeath - to fill the loot table.

Zharfie
05-15-2011, 08:06 PM
epic isn't end game, it's a boring and trivial revisit to old content... the end game of this game died way before epics were introduced :(

emptysands
05-15-2011, 08:09 PM
epic isn't end game, it's a boring and trivial revisit to old content... the end game of this game died way before epics were introduced :(

Sometimes revisiting old content with new strategies can be fun. It's possible for them to release new content every month.

But if they can reduced the upfront development by reusing old content - maps, quest triggers, dialogue, voice acting - then produce something people like to play then it's a win-win.

kuro_zero
05-15-2011, 08:18 PM
Epic is Turbine's way of making unpopular, not regularly run quests relavant again. How do you do that? With gear. Its the same reason we will not see epic gianthold anytime soon as it is still insanely popular. When the number 1 answer in advice channel for what adventure pack to purchase is Delera's, don't plan on the developers to devote the time to code epic content for it.

IMO several things need to happen before epic versions of this and other popular quest packs are made: 1) more quests at equivalent level 2) This will lead to a decrease in the awarded EXP for said quests (GH did this in reverse order when cap was raised to 20 and devs balanced EXP rewards) 3) Easier/superior loot is released for appropriate level.

I feel until these reqs are met, hopes for epic versions of popular quest series is a dream.

uthanak69
05-15-2011, 08:19 PM
/not signed.

Way too many (at least who I encounter) use Epics to rate the game and other toons. I'm forever hearing people telling others, and myself, that it doesn't matter what our builds are unless we gear for Epic. Epic Epic Epic is all I hear. I want new content, not an Epic anything.

WarDestroyer
05-15-2011, 08:36 PM
While the epic carnifex would be nice, it's about the ONLY thing that would be nice. Cartouche would be the other.

Most of the named items from there are pretty one dimensional. Are you going to want +20 bluff on the epic bladed boots? I won't.

Ok sir, my ideas:

->Epic Carnifex - (Weapon) +7 Great Axe (base dmg: 4d8 +7, crit: 18-20 / x3), Keen, Empty Red Augment Slot
->Epic Devotion - (Weapon) +7 Handwraps, Pure Good, Holy Burst, Holy Blast, Superior Devotion IX, Silver Threated, Empty Red Augment Slot [Good only, UMD:36]
->Epic Serpentbranch - (Weapon) +10 Longbow (base dmg: 3d6 +10, crit: 18-20 / x4) Poison Burst, Acid Burst, Disintegration, Proof against Poison, Empty Red Augment Slot
->Epic Hellfire Cloak - (Cloak) Fire Absorption 33%, Acid Absorption 33%, Sonic Absorption 33%, Empty Colorless Augment Slot
->Epic Iron Manacles - (Bracers) Protection +6, Armor Bonus +8, Empty Colorless Augment Slot [Chaotic Users only, UMD:36]
->Epic Skeleton Key - (Trinket) Dex Based Skills +5, Int Based Skill +5 (Enhancement Bonus), Green Augment Slot
->Epic Golden Cartouche - (Necklace) Intelligence +7, Charisma Based Skills +1 (Stacks w/ everything), Use Magic Device +5
->Epic Voice of the Master - (Trinket) Epic Heroic Inspiration (Combining this item with a True Heart of Wood in a Stone of Change gives +5% Profane XP Bonus in the other life if you use that specific Heart), Good Luck +3 (Combining this item with a trinket-slotted item on a Stone of Change passes this bonus for the last one, and raises ML to 20), Empty Colorless Augment Slot

Only a few ideas

stille_nacht
05-15-2011, 08:37 PM
Much better packs than Delera's to make epic, assuming you rehash content at all. Why Delera's? I don't even have to think when I run the quests and epic undead have to be the most unpleasant foes to fight ever. I'd much rather see something as interesting as the new pack made epic.

this, in reality, while Delera's is decent the main reason people get it is because of A- XP and B- loot. The quests are OK but not especially fun :/, epic orchard, GH, or vale first...

fluffybunnywilson
05-15-2011, 08:38 PM
->Epic Voice of the Master - (Trinket) Epic Heroic Inspiration (Combining this item with a True Heart of Wood in a Stone of Change gives +5% Profane XP Bonus in the other life if you use that specific Heart), Good Luck +3 (Combining this item with a trinket-slotted item on a Stone of Change passes this bonus for the last one, and raises ML to 20), Empty Colorless Augment Slot

Only a few ideas

Consumable epic items. Now *that* is an interesting idea!

JakLee7
05-16-2011, 02:29 PM
Leap of faith clickie to annoy all Favored Souls!

you are my new hero

Puppetian
05-16-2011, 02:34 PM
Epic archers, epic archers everywhere!

Also, gianthold!

skunk
05-16-2011, 03:17 PM
I hope they do epic Deleras and don't do carnifex.

Seeing every toon level 4-10 using 1 item is bad enough. Seeing every level 20 using that same weapon is going to be stupid.

Vale, Gianthold, Threnal, lets see some epic Invaders or Epic Pit.

elraido
05-16-2011, 04:19 PM
Ok sir, my ideas:

->Epic Carnifex - (Weapon) +7 Great Axe (base dmg: 4d8 +7, crit: 18-20 / x3), Keen, Empty Red Augment Slot
->Epic Devotion - (Weapon) +7 Handwraps, Pure Good, Holy Burst, Holy Blast, Superior Devotion IX, Silver Threated, Empty Red Augment Slot [Good only, UMD:36]
->Epic Serpentbranch - (Weapon) +10 Longbow (base dmg: 3d6 +10, crit: 18-20 / x4) Poison Burst, Acid Burst, Disintegration, Proof against Poison, Empty Red Augment Slot
->Epic Hellfire Cloak - (Cloak) Fire Absorption 33%, Acid Absorption 33%, Sonic Absorption 33%, Empty Colorless Augment Slot
->Epic Iron Manacles - (Bracers) Protection +6, Armor Bonus +8, Empty Colorless Augment Slot [Chaotic Users only, UMD:36]
->Epic Skeleton Key - (Trinket) Dex Based Skills +5, Int Based Skill +5 (Enhancement Bonus), Green Augment Slot
->Epic Golden Cartouche - (Necklace) Intelligence +7, Charisma Based Skills +1 (Stacks w/ everything), Use Magic Device +5
->Epic Voice of the Master - (Trinket) Epic Heroic Inspiration (Combining this item with a True Heart of Wood in a Stone of Change gives +5% Profane XP Bonus in the other life if you use that specific Heart), Good Luck +3 (Combining this item with a trinket-slotted item on a Stone of Change passes this bonus for the last one, and raises ML to 20), Empty Colorless Augment Slot

Only a few ideas
Holy overpowered!!!!

WarDestroyer
05-16-2011, 08:21 PM
Holy overpowered!!!!

Just like someone said a while ago, it's a HARDER grind than GS, so items may be, hmm, BETTER than it. Aswell, how can a bow be OP? ;p

skunk
05-17-2011, 08:41 PM
Just like someone said a while ago, it's a HARDER grind than GS, so items may be, hmm, BETTER than it. Aswell, how can a bow be OP? ;p

Game needs less monty python (hall) not more.

Its silly,
Back in the day, sunblades were considered to be the epic item lol.