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Ryan220
05-10-2011, 03:38 AM
Im thinking about TRing my Fighter into a Bard Warchanter.

Ive always been a melee player and tbh thought about TRing him into a FB Barb but I have a couple of those already (one mid and one capped) so I thought its time for a change, time to experience another role/class and the WC Bard seem like not too big a change all at one.

So Ive rolled up a Bard that is loosely based on the classic rocker build, although I will be taking THF feats instead of casting feats (i will take extend) and I'll focus more on buffing rather than a healing (but I will of course take MCMW AND CCW as it would be foolish not to). I will run this Bard for a few weeks to see if I like the class and if I do then I'll TR my fighter into one


My question is, how do you percieve a Bard when they first join your group?

Do you think 'excellent, another healer'

or perhaps

'buffs and dps, right on'

perhaps your like me and think 'good buffs and bit of back up healing if the healer goes down'

maybe you dont give it a thought.


The reason I ask is I dont want to play a class that is percieved as a healer. I had a FvS for a while but found the higher the level I became the more I was percieved as only being a healer (and tbh I couldnt make the grade as a healer - i found it stressful). I love healers and if you ever group with me you find my WF FB Barb will act as your own personal bodyguard, but I dont want to be one. When the chips are down I will of course lob out heals to help the party, but thats as much as I would like to do in general

I appreciate any comments or advice.

Thankyou

LoneWolfie
05-10-2011, 04:04 AM
i personally play a warchanter bard ... well sorta
currently 8 bard/2 rogue/1 fighter
love the character and i'm not a very good healer either but have never been asked really for a heal unless healer was down or something
can handle traps quite well even at level though i do have some gear to help with that but with you being a high level player you should be able to pick up gear for whatever setup you go for
people seem to enjoy having me around for the buffs to melee and to deal with traps
never have problems getting into groups

Kirachan
05-10-2011, 04:09 AM
Well, bards can do a lot of things, so I usually don't form an opinion of any individual bard before playing with them. I have seen some really nice DPS bards, even a great Intimi-Tanker, some nice healers and buffers and exellent CC bards.

I myself have a spellsinger bard, who can do some healing, but I very rarely get asked if I could be full healer, and it's never just assumed I do it. So unless you join groups looking for a healer you should be fine.

Thondarr
05-10-2011, 04:10 AM
1. unique DPS boost via songs for all the melee in group, if he/she can help with melee, it's a big bonus
2. healing a bit is a just a bonus, though honestly, a well build healing bard can solo heal most of the quests, even raids + gives bonus DPS to all melee in group via songs

zwiebelring
05-10-2011, 04:12 AM
perhaps your like me and think 'good buffs and bit of back up healing if the healer goes down'
Generally this. But depending on the multliclassing a bit more dps or more backup healing.

If I see a pure Bard Warchanter I even expect more crowd control than in an multiclassed one.

Spangled
05-10-2011, 04:14 AM
Im thinking about TRing my Fighter into a Bard Warchanter.
My question is, how do you percieve a Bard when they first join your group?

Do you think 'excellent, another healer'

or perhaps

'buffs and dps, right on'

perhaps your like me and think 'good buffs and bit of back up healing if the healer goes down'

maybe you dont give it a thought.

Thankyou

It's been quite a few years since bards were automatically viewed as healers. These days I am generally surprised if a bard is heal spec'ed, so don't expect it from them. The thing about bards is that they can be almost anything, depending on how they have been built. There was one guy in my EU guild who had a dozen bards, all very different.

My usual experience is that bards are played by experienced players so are welcome in any party I'm a part of.

Having said that, I've run into a few bards that never play buff songs, even for themselves(!)...at which point they are taking up a spot that could be better filled by a hireling or left empty.

BlargneyTheSecond
05-10-2011, 04:21 AM
When a bard joins a party while I'm playing...
... a melee of any class, I think "Whee, first rate dps buffs!"
... a healer, I think "Cool, blur and maybe even displacement all around means less babysitting the manasponges!"
... an arcane, I think "Excellent, he'll take care of buffs so I have more spell points to use offensively."
... a bard, I think "Oh ****, overlapping everything."

Satinavian
05-10-2011, 04:24 AM
I play a twf-Rog/Spellsinger, a bit uncommon, but surely has influenced my opinion about bards.


If a bard is in the group, i think "buffs". That means, in this order : Inspire Courage, Haste, Blur, (Greater) Heroism or Good Hope, inspire Greatness. Other buffs (PrE songs, rage, displacement, invisibility) are still welcome but not assumed.

If and only if he declares to be a healer, i think "healer". I never assume him to be healer otherwise. I will ask him about healing, if he applies for a "need healer" lfm or one with only bard, cleric and fvs icons lit, as some people simply don't read lfms.

But even, if he is not a healer, i expect him to be able to selfheal and to toss a cure to people between 1 and -10.


If he is not a healer, i expect him either to bring melee or cc in addition to buffs. I never assume, which one it is if he has no 6-lv-splashes. Meleeing spellsingers or pure bards do work, as cc-ing warchanters or evasive builds, maybe concentrating on songs for DC.

theboatman
05-10-2011, 04:26 AM
As a warchanter, most people have been around enough to realize you aren't more than an emergency situation healer. Depending if you splash or not this will become immediately obvious to anyone that looks at your levels.

However: Any bard can toss out scroll heal/recon/raise better than any other class, with a minimum investment in scroll mastery enhancements. UMD is a class skill, and there is no reason not to max it. It may not be the most fun in the world to stop dpsing and scroll heal to save the raid, but when the chips are on the table it can prevent wipes.

Astraghal
05-10-2011, 05:01 AM
I see Bards as a force multiplier and jack of all trades.

They can buff, melee, heal and crowd control.

If I rolled another toon it would probably be a Bard.

They rock.

Ryan220
05-10-2011, 06:02 AM
Thankyou all for the replies so far,

It seems that the general perception is exactly how I want it to be - nice buffs, some nice DPS (mine will have the full THFchain and a Min2 GA ) and backup healing (via spells, scrolls and wands)

Im not sure about the CC though (showing my newbieness a little). I'll have Fascinate which I understand will land everytime as long as I max out Perform, but I dont know about the other CC spells at higher levels (i dont fully understand how its calculated tbh). My Char will be at least 12base + 2 tome + the highest Char stat item I can have at each level, I guess someone will be able to work it out.

Also regarding CC, is whether I'll have space for them as I'll want a full suite of those super buffs we all love as well as some heal spells.

Now I have players views on the Bards role Im really looking forward to using him.

Thondarr
05-10-2011, 06:21 AM
on a melee warchanter, you can forget meaningfull CC besides fascinate. It takes heavy feat investment and bards are preety feat starving class + high charisma score; besides that, you're better off investing those feats into THF line, toughness, etc, more melee oriented feats.

properly built bards can do some preety sick damage!

enjoy your bard, it's one of the best classes in game (at least for me, I'm rolling my 4th one soon-ish :D), and also perfect for solo play

oh, and ye, I usually end up with... 20-22 cha on my warchanters, it's more then enough

take care

Teharahma
05-10-2011, 06:22 AM
'Great, another piker.'

Luxx0r
05-10-2011, 06:28 AM
This question makes me smile, because I have the opposite problem. I play a pure bard, based on the Mississippi Queen build by LeslieWest (great build BTW), just with a bit more focus on healing and a bit less on haggling (really small differences).

In quests, I usually do 3 out of the 4 standar bard roles: buffing, CCing and healing (the missing one is DPSing that I'm greatly lacking, but you can not have everything). And I'm able to heal any normal quest without breaking a sweat.

The funny thing for me, it's that people don't seem to think of you as a healer... pugging a SoS, with 3 melees and 2 arcanes they said: hey, we have no healer, but noone takes a look to the PURE 20 BARD, and I healed it without issues (ok, one of the arcanes died a couple of times, but he was new to the quest and a bit squishy I think).

The other day I run a PUG shroud with just a cleric and me, we complete it with no problems or deads during the Harry fights, and in the end the party is congratulating the cleric on solo healing it... Hey!!! I was here also casting MCLW and MCMW (and they hit in the highs 100s/lows 200s) like crazy, but nobody knows...

TL;DR. I don't really think anyone will take you for a healer ;)

Satinavian
05-10-2011, 06:35 AM
Most people think, a bard can be either really good at dps or really good at cc. They might be right.

DPS-specialisation means lot of Str and levelups there and melee-feats. CC-specialisation means high Cha, level-ups in Cha, (Greater) Spell focus.

But even without specialisation on CC it will be useful. I used charm person and resistible dance all the lower levels. doesn't hurt if it's not working half the time, they are cheap and fast.

And the Dancing sphere, also known as Disco-ball is one of the most useful bardspells even on a melee bard. If half of a group of enemies safe, your DC is not good. But half of the enemies dancing still makes it a lot easier for melees.

Fascinate will not often land on early levels as your DC starts low but rises faster than spell DCs. Later it will be more reliable. The bad thing about fascinate is that it is nearly useless in the common PUG, because your fellow melees normally have broken it on most mobs before they realized it was in place. Also it works not good with weapons/fighting stiles that tend to hit more than one target occasionally.

Molotov
05-10-2011, 07:06 AM
I have a heal specced spellsinger bard, I will be the main healer in a party, I will be the crowd controller in a party, and I will dps in a party. When I tr'ed my bard i had all of those points in mind when created it and I performed all those rolls as needed. the only time I had help was during the final stages of xp capping in amrath elite.


bards are amazing!

karl_k0ch
05-10-2011, 07:39 AM
Playing mostly melees, I think: I like inspire courage, haste and rage. MORA DPS! ;)

I play my bards usually with a rogue splash, fulfilling also the role of a trap disabler. My bards do contribute in melee fights, but only to an extend.

I find the 16 Bard/2 Rogue/2 Fighter pretty appealing.

KillEveryone
05-10-2011, 08:22 AM
I ask what kind of bard they are.

Some spellsingers can play party healer in raids so I'll only grab a second healer type for raids unless they state they can solo heal. Sometimes they will sign on as a party healer for regular quests.

Warchanters I kind of expect to be more melee because of the PrE is more melee oriented but there are those that break the mold.

Overall though, I think that the party DPS just went up because of bard songs and a reliable CC has been added with their fascinate and if they have the undead and construct songs, that covers more critter types.

Aurora1979
05-10-2011, 08:28 AM
Im currently TRing my bard from a pure 2HF bard to a splashed 2WF both warchanters

Im only level 14... and with the splashes its been a bit more of a slog but I still love the class.

At cap previouse life I used to just sing, blur/displace, rage and haste. Then get stuck into the ruck.

I cant really give much on the other perspective other then, with a melee, if their bard is a WC i know im getting a nice boost.

Although, I should add, I have been hit a few times with that sp regen song whilst playing an arcane. My opinion is in hindsite, but after getting that they are my new bestest freind :D

Darkrok
05-10-2011, 08:47 AM
Don't discount wand/scroll healing.

I run a 20 warforged warchanter and I can keep groups up through reasonable damage (ie some epics, most quests, some parts of raids) on scrolls alone. The wand and scroll enhancement line for bards is better than for any other class and it doesn't take a ton of work to get them to no-fail territory on heal/reconstruct scrolls.

Back on topic of what I expect, just having a bard is a huge boon to dps. Beyond that I don't expect anything because it's the player - not the build - that delivers everything else. I will say that a well played bard has so many tools at its disposal that it can really save a group that isn't up to the challenge.

katz
05-10-2011, 08:50 AM
how do i perceive a bard when they join the group? my first reaction.. my FIRST reaction... is "AWESOME! a bard!"

bards can do a multitude of things, and it doesn't matter what you've chosen to focus on, a bard is a benefit to any group in one way or another... unless they are compete and utter pikers and not doing anything at all.

about healing: bards can make very competent and able healers, altho warchanters are not normally quite up to par, mostly because they focus more on melee. people get into a mindset that only certain classes can heal, so you likely won't be EXPECTED to heal, except perhaps as backup...altho a note of advice... as you get higher up, you will possibly/probably be expected to carry res scrolls and the UMD to use them in emergencies.

Ungood
05-10-2011, 08:53 AM
Well, not sure how the others view a bard, but my first thought is "Cool a scapegoat" in case we wipe.

*This is Humor! (or an attempt at it!)

katz
05-10-2011, 08:54 AM
*smacks Ungood*

Cam_Neely
05-10-2011, 08:56 AM
My question is, how do you percieve a Bard when they first join your group?

Do you think 'excellent, another healer'
If its pure I think buff and heal, and will ask if they want to solo heal.




'buffs and dps, right on'


If its a splash with fighter, barb or rogue (most common)

I have a capped 16/2/2 and I can heal in a pinch (happy to be the second healer in a normal shroud run) but would rather (and i feel add more) rage or madstone after the first buffing round

Ryan220
05-10-2011, 09:01 AM
Once again a thank you for the replies everyone.


I have one final question to ask (well maybe two)

What stats would you use for a 34pt Warforged build and the same for Human (Im thinkng Human for the extra feat and WF for the xtra Con (plus thats what the toon currently is and I already have some healing amp - Blood Docent, Finger Neckie)

Thank you

Edit added - I will have a full set of +1 and +2 tomes available for this TR

somenewnoob
05-10-2011, 09:04 AM
I'm a pure fighter and I love to see Bards in the group. Very versatile, can do a lot of things. Always a welcome addition to any group I'm in.

Aranticus
05-10-2011, 09:04 AM
its as much other people's perception as with yours. its important to keep in mind you play the way you want it to be. if you are a melee bard, joining a lfm looking for healing is asking for trouble (not that melee bards cant heal but if you do so, then be prepared to heal first, fight second) or if you are a spellsinger and joins a group looking for dps (sure a spellsinger can boost dps but most ss build the function around healing or cc and dps is secondary). the same goes for most other classes and gaming styles

anyways, a bard rocks and most groups would do good with at least 1 around

Aranticus
05-10-2011, 09:06 AM
Once again a thank you for the replies everyone.


I have one final question to ask (well maybe two)

What stats would you use for a 34pt Warforged build and the same for Human (Im thinkng Human for the extra feat and WF for the xtra Con (plus thats what the toon currently is and I already have some healing amp - Blood Docent, Finger Neckie)

Thank you

Edit added - I will have a full set of +1 and +2 tomes available for this TR

the question you want to ask yourself is are you staying pure or splashing. warchanters have quite a heavy feat limitation. if you are staying pure and cannot fit in all the feats you want, then human may do good. most wf chanters i see are usually splashed

Cam_Neely
05-10-2011, 09:16 AM
Once again a thank you for the replies everyone.


I have one final question to ask (well maybe two)

What stats would you use for a 34pt Warforged build and the same for Human (Im thinkng Human for the extra feat and WF for the xtra Con (plus thats what the toon currently is and I already have some healing amp - Blood Docent, Finger Neckie)

Thank you

Edit added - I will have a full set of +1 and +2 tomes available for this TR

Starting
Abilities Base Stats

Strength 16
Dexterity 15
Constitution 16
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 8
Charisma 12

All level ups into str for my 15/3/2 bard/rogue/fighter but I'm going dwarf

brian14
05-10-2011, 09:27 AM
I play a CC-specced Virtuoso. I've been considering crafting a Pos/Pos GS item for him (a Raise Dead clicky).

Yesterday I was in Coal Chamber. At level 13, my bard was by far the lowest-level character in the party (his third Vale quest, second successful one). At some point me and a fighter 20 got separated from the rest of party.

I carry a bunch of Raise Dead scrolls. After raising the fighter from dead for the second time, I smacked my head and said "Why the heck should I waste greensteel on a 1/rest Raise Dead clicky!?"

Bards can indeed do many things.

Cam_Neely
05-10-2011, 09:31 AM
I play a CC-specced Virtuoso. I've been considering crafting a Pos/Pos GS item for him (a Raise Dead clicky).

Yesterday I was in Coal Chamber. At level 13, my bard was by far the lowest-level character in the party (his third Vale quest, second successful one). At some point me and a fighter 20 got separated from the rest of party.

I carry a bunch of Raise Dead scrolls. After raising the fighter from dead for the second time, I smacked my head and said "Why the heck should I waste greensteel on a 1/rest Raise Dead clicky!?"

Bards can indeed do many things.

I agree and disagree :).

I would def not place it high on your priority list, but after a bit of time the only bottle neck I have is larges. So a pos/pos blunt makes a nice undead beater for a melee at very little cost.

brian14
05-10-2011, 10:13 AM
I would def not place it high on your priority list, but after a bit of time the only bottle neck I have is larges.
Hmmm... Are you on Cannith?

If yes, can I buy your Shavarath Stone? We meet in Meridia, I give you all ingredients other than Shavarath Stone, you make the blank and give it back to me. I will pay you 100k plat.

Ryan220
05-10-2011, 10:35 AM
the question you want to ask yourself is are you staying pure or splashing. warchanters have quite a heavy feat limitation. if you are staying pure and cannot fit in all the feats you want, then human may do good. most wf chanters i see are usually splashed

I wish to stay pure Bard for my TR

I dont feel feat starved tbh

Im thinking

Extend, PA, WF Slash, Toughness, THF, ITHF, GTHF for Warforged

or if I go human perhaps something to boost healing or perhaps an extra toughness?

Stat wise, Im not sure - at least Max str and a min 12 Cha, min Dex, min Wis, 12 int and whatevers left in con. Does that sound sensible?

Duagrim
05-10-2011, 10:45 AM
I love warchanter bards. I have 2, one with 2 levels of ftr and one pure. They are classic generalists- there isn't a lot they can't do, although they don'y do anything as well as the specialists except buff, at which they excel. I can usually keep the party buffed and hasted, saving the casters SP and attention, while simultaneously helping out with melee, and adding in a bit of wand healing as needed.

The beauty of a warchanter is that you can do it all reasonably well.

Astraghal
05-10-2011, 10:58 AM
I wish to stay pure Bard for my TR

I dont feel feat starved tbh

Im thinking

Extend, PA, WF Slash, Toughness, THF, ITHF, GTHF for Warforged

or if I go human perhaps something to boost healing or perhaps an extra toughness?

Stat wise, Im not sure - at least Max str and a min 12 Cha, min Dex, min Wis, 12 int and whatevers left in con. Does that sound sensible?

At first glance, why WF: Slashing over say IC: Slashing?

karl_k0ch
05-10-2011, 11:08 AM
At first glance, why WF: Slashing over say IC: Slashing?

Warchanter I Prereq.

Astraghal
05-10-2011, 11:18 AM
Warchanter I Prereq.

Ah, okay.

Aurora1979
05-10-2011, 11:21 AM
I wish to stay pure Bard for my TR

I dont feel feat starved tbh

Im thinking

Extend, PA, WF Slash, Toughness, THF, ITHF, GTHF for Warforged

or if I go human perhaps something to boost healing or perhaps an extra toughness?

Stat wise, Im not sure - at least Max str and a min 12 Cha, min Dex, min Wis, 12 int and whatevers left in con. Does that sound sensible?

I cant remember 100% what I had but thats pretty close feat wise. I went human, and the extra feat went too...... Improved crit slash.... I think. Either way, yea looks good. When applicable I got a Lit2 Great axe and never looked back, very rarely needed to swap weapons.

Stats I would go something like...

18 STR
16 CON
14 CHA dump the rest.

That gives you 6 skill points if your human. which is enough for perform, UMD, Haggle, balance and whatever else you want. Bit of jump, probably some MS.... diplomacy can be quite nice, you dont have to be a squishy toon but sometimes it is handy to be able to offload the agro onto a meathead :) Persoanlly, I took it, stopped using it at later levels then regreted the skill points spent into it, but thats the fun with skills. can personalise it a bit.

The 14 cha is really not a big deal, my bard was able to fascinate the mephits on Evon6 quite easily with that as my base, but I cant remember the end total i was at.... wasnt anything exceptional though I know that.

Cant remeber which life you said this was for, thats 32 points. with extra i would go +2 in int if you have 34pt builds, grab an extra skill point. or if its a 36 pointer I would say put the +4 into cha MAYBE, but if you have 36 pointer, i would probably be more likely to suggest going 2WF

SirValentine
05-10-2011, 11:56 AM
My question is, how do you percieve a Bard when they first join your group?

Do you think 'excellent, another healer'

or perhaps

'buffs and dps, right on'

perhaps your like me and think 'good buffs and bit of back up healing if the healer goes down'


I only play a cleric, but I love bards! One joins and I think, "Cool!" Then, if it turns out to be a Spellsinger, I think "Totally awesome!"

The main thing I think about them is the huge DPS they add to everyone in the party. This is the key reason a bard is always welcome.

As an offensive caster, I love those Spellsinger songs, but I don't count on them or ask about them; getting them is just a bonus if I got lucky on the bard who joined.

They might cover arcane buffs (Haste, Rage, Blur, GH). And they can probably toss a spot cures or raises if things get crazy. Quest and build dependant, they might do CC. And they probably do some DPS themselves.

Almost all bards I've played with are versatile contributers to party success.

I love running epics with me on my cleric and a bard along, and hearing other players (melee-DPS types) saying, "But we don't have a caster!".

I know some bards are "heal-specced", and can do substantial healing, and I appreciate the occasional assistance from them. But I admit I get a chuckle out of the ones who think they can heal AS WELL as a cleric or a FvS. They don't have the spell selection, and they don't have as big a blue bar. Yes, of course they can solo-heal many 6-man quests, and some easier raids; some groups do those with just potions. But I have yet to see a bard play a primary healer role in eDQ, or solo-heal VoD, etc..

Solmage
05-10-2011, 12:54 PM
To answer the question, I usually see a bard as 'woot, extra party DPS buffs and extra melee DPS'

However, I do keep an open mind and am perfectly willing to let any of the other bard types fill any of the roles.

LordMond63
05-10-2011, 04:29 PM
To begin with, my answers are based on the fact that I play on Orien. Your results, for a variety of reasons, will almost certainly vary if you play on another server.

A distressingly high number of players really have little or no concept of what it is like to have a Bard in their group. I say this because everyone goes about their regular proceedure when entering a quest- the Arcane(s) pass out Blur, stat buffs, maybe resistence buffs and the Divine(s) pass out Prayer, Mass Aid, Death Ward, Spell Resistence, etc.- all before I have a chance to sing to reduce their SP cost by 10% and before asking if I might have a few of those buffs myself so they can save even more SP. That, to me, indicates that they do not often group with Bards and so are unaware of what we can do.

My Bard is level 15 and a Spellsinger. While my dps is lacking (and that's generous), what I can do is to raise the dps of everyone else in the group, whether they be melee, caster or a fellow specialist. I can make their weapons hit harder, their spells do more damage (and cost less to cast) and I can perform very well as a backup (and even, on occasion, main) healer. I can step into the CC role and do an excellent job. In short, I make everyone else in the group better at whatever it is they do.

My reaction when I am on another character and a Bard joins the group? Shock. And then satisfaction, as in knowing that the quest just got a good bit easier.

azmodeus1
05-10-2011, 06:03 PM
when i think of a bard the following comes to mind...

i hope they're a warchanter/barb/ftr split and can dps/buff...

and that they know how to sing early and on the move, not delay the party singing for 30+ seconds.

really, i always let out a huge sigh when the buffs are done and it seems the bard is just getting started.

i never really expect a bard to heal, just buff haste/rage/heroism, and then get thier axe bloody...

zwiebelring
05-10-2011, 07:38 PM
Just to give a headsup to Oriens pugs.

It seems they wait till the Bard has sung. Haste is startoff. Bards can sing while running, it was changed to be done that way once but noone seems to know that. It is a bit funny when I start singing after hage and run off while all others stand where they are^^.

licho
05-10-2011, 08:55 PM
When i see a bard i think:
- Yay, the buffs came. Its sometimes tricky with the wizzies and buffs, but Bards are stable when it comes to keep party buffed.
- Woot, a sword which can take care of itself.

I never expect healing from bards, as long as one say that he is heal speced.
Nevertheless if you happen to play one, its good to have some healing option, even if only scroll one. Sometimes just sith happens.

boomeranky
05-11-2011, 05:12 AM
Just to give a headsup to Oriens pugs.

It seems they wait till the Bard has sung. Haste is startoff. Bards can sing while running, it was changed to be done that way once but noone seems to know that. It is a bit funny when I start singing after hage and run off while all others stand where they are^^.

Playing a bard myself, I can tell you that yes, we can play the songs while running, but....

esp when you play with a friend together in the same room, you can see the delay from your own movement til it gets translated to all the others - so you can never be totally sure, who is near enough and who not.

While running groups get easily stretched out over some area, and while our songs do have quite some range there will always be a few people outside of it. So I try to get them together, give the two most important songs (courage and greatness), fresh up rage and haste, and while running might add displacement depending on where we go.


To the other who said bards are no clerics in terms of healing - of course we are not, but we are still the second strongest class in terms of healing compared to fvs/cleric being strongest in healing.

Healing specced bards can solo heal a shroud, and while i wouldn't expect them to solo heal edq, i wouldnt expect that from a cleric or fvs either (esp without drinking pots like beer on a party).
We just don't have mass cure serious and critical, nor (mass) heal as a spell. But we can use all that as scrolls and got the others (and also the enhancements to raise their crit rate, healing etc if we spec for it).

In terms of solo healing vod on a bard - I am quite sure there is some thread lurking around the achievements section or somewhere else with ppl mentioning doing just that. Also a lot of epic quests can be solo healed quite fine even with bards that are not specced for healing (solely with wand/scroll enhancements line and scroll healing).


My main is a bard/rog split in his second life now at level 15 - I still use wands to heal most of the quest, having clerics or fvs around just makes it a lot more relaxing (but now at level 15 i will slowly use up the left over wands and switch over to scroll healing, being at no fail umd). Playing together with a friend who is pure fighter in his second life we blast through many dungeons alone, having hirelings for backup. Pugging at times makes it more fun but not necessarily quicker, except for raids (myself i wouldnt want to solo heal raids except maybe for reavers fate..., but as said I am not even healing specced but a warchanting trapmonkey)...

On a side note... healing on a bard can become quite an expensive hobby, so don't try this at home ;) (more than 200k plat in healing stuff til lvl 15 can easily happen, so on a first lifer without sugar daddy alts or with a rich first life it won't work that well)

zwiebelring
05-11-2011, 05:26 AM
Playing a bard myself, I can tell you that yes, we can play the songs while running, but....

esp when you play with a friend together in the same room, you can see the delay from your own movement til it gets translated to all the others - so you can never be totally sure, who is near enough and who not.

While running groups get easily stretched out over some area, and while our songs do have quite some range there will always be a few people outside of it. So I try to get them together, give the two most important songs (courage and greatness), fresh up rage and haste, and while running might add displacement depending on where we go.
My main goal here is to keep the melees buffed i dont care if casters get all the warchanter songs where inspire greatness was the most useful anyway.
I play a trapchanter and sometimes I am annoyed because I have too many buffs as spells, and then the group waits for songs. I announce:

Hage is startoff

Songs while running

to speed up the runs if possible. I mean it is very nice when everybody waits for everybody but the use of shorttime buffs decreases accordingly. Just a little hint to maximize ressource management which IS important at certain lvl.s.

Minding the range of songs, well Inspire Heroism has a big range. You don't have to have everybody in song area just the people who do main dps whether it is the caster or the melee. For example I keep all my buffs centered on the Barbarian if possible.

karl_k0ch
05-11-2011, 05:42 AM
Hage is startoff

Songs while running

I usually sing & hage at natural stop points of a dungeon, such as closed doors.

zwiebelring
05-11-2011, 05:46 AM
Well I do not say that I will be running while rocking the ballad of mob's doom I'm just giving a hint referring to the experience made in Orien (love that server btw :)) pugs that you can save some time and might be a good hint for situations when ressource management is about timing. Closed doors and such are generally used for rebuffs, topping offs etc. as far as I saw.

Noctus
05-11-2011, 11:36 AM
My question is, how do you percieve a Bard when they first join your group?


1st thought:
Nice! A Bard. Best buffs in game. :)

followed by:
Hopefully we didnt get one of these Sings-his-song and doesnt do anything else, semi-useless guys.



A good abrd is in one of two categories. -Singing and buffing is a given for both. If a bard doesnt do tat he is a failure and should have rolled up another build-.
The Bard either contributes to DPS through melee abilities, or he brings CC and some emergency healing to support the healer.

Ungood
05-11-2011, 03:52 PM
This is the thought process of my Melee when I see a bard.

"If things start to go bad, I better check for lollipops and notes over mobs heads"

This is my thought process of my Arcane when I see a bard:

"Oh Good someone else can Crowd Control if things go bad"

This is my thought process of my Cleric when I see a bard:

"They better have the UMD to scroll my dead butt back to life if things go bad"

otherwise.. No idea what to expect, they can be all over the place as far as DPS and Buffs, even some back up heals, but all in all, they are a good thing to have, an augment to the group as a whole and someone you want in the group if things go bad.

LordMond63
05-11-2011, 04:44 PM
I understand that Bards can sing on the move.

However, I cannot say that I have ever seen a group, immediately upon zoning in to a quest (where initial buffing typically takes place), buff while moving. Usually, the group stands closely huddled together while the Arcane(s) and Divine(s) pass out various buffs. When someone casts Haste, the group then moves.

My complaint is that players are so unfamiliar with grouping with Bards as to not know that we can reduce the spell point cost of those initial buffs and probably even take care of at least some of the buffs ourselves which also saves sp. Even if the sp reduction song is the first thing I do upon zoning in, other casters have already at least begun, if not finished, their buffs. One thing that I find sorely lacking in the game- and not just in this area but in many areas- is patience.