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LeLoric
04-26-2011, 08:12 PM
So since we are not going to get any new epic content in the near future I think adding some different augments both via the token turn in or drops like in Da would be a nice way to make these more repeateable.

New augments would make more epic items (especially weapons) worthwhile as well as provide more customization for character needs.

They could also fill certain gaps in gear.

Some examples.

Bane augments: these would help make certain items better than other alternatives like greensteel. An epic kronzek's cruelty with a evil outsider bane would be competitive with the Lit II. Same goes for an epic xuum with giant bane for trolls etc.
Hammer of life with undead bane would be better than a Triple pos maul.

+1 max caster level spell augments: This would help lev 20 sorcs fill up the caster level 26 they have on certain spells. It would also give non sorcs a slight damage increase and may intrude upon that but there is the option of making these items class restricted. These could come in the form of single elements or even single spells.

+1/2 epic saves: Several items already give +3 epic saves but a smaller customizeable bonus wouldnt be horrible and actually be quite useful in certain areas.

class specific/prestige specific augments: Certain quests could add some specific augments only useable by certain classes or people with a certain prestige class. This would allow some nice benefits that could help certain classes prestiges shore up weaknesses without the stronger ones in that area getting ahead. These could be restricted to certain tiers of the prestige or certain levels of a class to prevent splash builds abusing them.

Example: Acrobat getting a +2d6 sneak attack bonus. Assasin getting a + to int or even just assasinate dc. A +2 sacred str bonus for pallies. +2 damage for stalwarts and dos's

Many of these could be placed in certain quests. Undead banes in wiz king for example. However please refrain from using timed augments except in very rare places. Others could be part of the turn in system for tokens.

These are just a few ideas would love to see some others added in.

dingal
04-26-2011, 08:16 PM
So very much signed.

Absolutely great idea to spice up some otherwise massive turds they've given us as epic items.

sirgog
04-26-2011, 08:48 PM
Colorless +5 stacking (as per Shroud item) elemental resists (for 10 dungeon tokens) and maybe even blue or yellow +10 stacking resists for 20-25 raid tokens.

Qezuzu
04-26-2011, 10:33 PM
I'd like to see some guards too.

sirgog
04-26-2011, 11:12 PM
I'd like to see some guards too.

With one or two exceptions, all the guards in game either do so little damage per hit that they don't penetrate elemental resistances, or they add so much DPS (Lightning Strike, Disintegration, or even most weaker Shroud guards) that they would become must-haves.

Even crappy Incineration Guard is ~5 DPS against a single mob that swings 50 times per minute (assuming 2%, 300 damage).

dingal
04-26-2011, 11:39 PM
Haste guard would be an epic win.

porq
04-26-2011, 11:47 PM
Striding. Please. I'd even take 20%.

oberon131313
04-26-2011, 11:51 PM
Would love to have the choice between arcane sigil and greater arcane casting dexterity, instead of being forced into greater arcane casting dexterity.

Rawel_San
04-27-2011, 12:19 AM
Does anyone feel that the +4 prot and +4 natural armor should be made +5's? Or do people actually
use them as +4's?

Alternative
04-27-2011, 12:47 AM
Does anyone feel that the +4 prot and +4 natural armor should be made +5's? Or do people actually
use them as +4's?

I feel its dumb that an epic item can only get +4 resistance while DT can have +5. I mean, come on, it's an EPIC item! Also I'd love striding 30%, oh yea.

Stanley_Nicholas
04-27-2011, 01:03 AM
Deathblock is another effect that is strangely missing from the list of things you can slot on epic items. It would hardly be overpowered, since its ability is outclassed by a tangleroot clicky in 98% of situations.

LeLoric
04-27-2011, 01:15 AM
Does anyone feel that the +4 prot and +4 natural armor should be made +5's? Or do people actually
use them as +4's?

I use the +4 resists now and would definately use a +5. I would never use a +4 protection and probably never use a +5 either.

sirgog
04-27-2011, 01:37 AM
Does anyone feel that the +4 prot and +4 natural armor should be made +5's? Or do people actually
use them as +4's?

+4 saves is pretty good if you can't spare a slot for the Epic Envenomed Cloak or DT armor.

sephiroth1084
04-27-2011, 01:50 AM
Does anyone feel that the +4 prot and +4 natural armor should be made +5's? Or do people actually
use them as +4's?
This^

I feel its dumb that an epic item can only get +4 resistance while DT can have +5. I mean, come on, it's an EPIC item! Also I'd love striding 30%, oh yea.
Ditto.

I will say, though, that the +4 Resists makes some sense. If you can't fit in an item with +5, the +4 in a yellow is pretty good.

+5 Protection is stupid, though. If you care about AC, you need all of it. If you don't care about AC, you don't need any of it. FAIL.


I'd like to see some of the long-standing exclusive or semi-exclusive bonuses get thrown into epic items. +2 Dodge, +3 Dodge, Insight +2, 3, 4, Concordant Opposition (maybe just throw that on an epic item or two).

Bane would be nice, but I'm not sure how reasonable it would be. Certainly an ESoS should never EVER be allowed to get that property.

Greater Potency VIII, Improved Potency IX.

Exceptional stat +2.

Junts
04-27-2011, 01:54 AM
I agree that the resistance 4 isn't a big deal because it does make epic items that actually come with resistance somewhat better than generic yellow slot, while still being better than a nightshield clicky.

Protection might as well be 5 and still wouldn't be slotted, IMO.

QuantumFX
04-27-2011, 02:49 AM
Enhanced Ki Generation (Yellow Slot) - So monks can wear a set other than Henshin Mystic.

Augmented Fists (Yellow Slot) - So the ML: 12 Garments of Equilibrium are no longer more attractive than most of the epic outfits/dragontouched vestments.

+5 Unarmed Enchantment (Colorless Slot) - Would go a long way towards dealing with the lack of Greensteel Handwraps.

Guild Augment Slots (Colorless Slot) - So that players with epic gear can actually take part in the system.

Set Bonuses (Yellow Slot) - Give us shards that mimic the belt/necklace components of ToD sets. Also Glacial Assault, Tharnes III, Levik’s III and Lorrik’s III. At the very least it might give some AC builds a reason to try out the Epic Siren’s Set.

Dragontouched Slots (Colorless Slot, Only applies to Armor) - It would give us a reason to keep playing those quests even at level 20.

Anthem (Since it’s no longer limited to the House D rapier)

Fireshield Clickies (Yellow Slot) - Why you people took these off of random loot I will never understand. However, this makes it a “named item” so that should take care of your fears.

Superior <Spell Damage Type> IX Clickies (Colorless Slot)

Threat Reduction (Colorless Slot) It would *really* be nice to see this on something other than a Set bonus or a weapon that no rogue wants to use.

Also… I think we should encourage Turbine to look at the various enchantments and cut the cost on the useless/weak ones.

Matuse
04-27-2011, 07:05 AM
Make use of Orange, Green, and Purple slots to do fancy stuff. Right now these are just dual-color, instead of their own color. You could also make it so that these multicolor slots use raid tokens, so people have something to do with those besides convert them into dungeon tokens in the epic altar.

Make a pass through epic weapons and give some of them orange slots (AFAIK, nothing in the game has an orange slot right now). Let orange crystals add real weapon effects like Holy, Anarchic, Axiomatic, Lesser or Normal Bane (not greater), Improved Cursespewing, Improved Shattermantle, Improved Destruction, etc.

Superweapons like the eSoS would stay red. Festering garbage like Sting would get an orange...AND a red.

You could do similar things with Green and Purple slots. Green might be more problematical with really good effects since you can find it on a pretty wide range of items, but Purple is begging for nifty effects (like the good shroud guards), and to boost garbage items by giving the flexibility of those effects.

For colorless, I'd like the ability to slot something besides +6/+1 exceptional. Like say, +11 to any skill (obviously excepting UMD). Enough to be useful for skills like Jump or Tumble, but not enough to replace the +15s and +20s that a standard item has.

Striding 25 or 30 should definitely make an appearance on Yellow.

And honestly, Blue needs more. Does anyone care about any mod on Blue beyond Toughness and Heavy Fort? How about adding Mithril (that would need to be expensive in tokens)? Adamantine? Healing Amp? Lorikk's/Levik's/Tharne's?

There are so many possibilities for epic slots that are being totally underutilized. Adding a bunch of new variety to what can be slotted, as well as the slots available will not just make epic items more interesting in general, but gives the opportunity for items that nobody ever uses to get something valuable which might make them desirable.

IgorHackNSlasher
04-27-2011, 07:15 AM
/signed

Maybe this is why ther has been no new epic content, they are actually doing an Epic overhaul that will be in U10
/crosses fingers

Voldomar
04-27-2011, 07:31 AM
/yes plz

One of the best features about epics. It's sad it wasn't pushed further

mastergoo-ddo
04-27-2011, 07:39 AM
/signed
nice idea

Solmage
04-27-2011, 07:45 AM
/signed

+4 resists do make *some* sense, but I'd like to see +5 available on rarer slots, maybe a blue?

+4 protection has to go however, that's just inane, as is a plain spell focus. Plain spell mastery a la reaver's napkin, is perhaps the lowest they should make that for it to be useful.


Deathblock is another effect that is strangely missing from the list of things you can slot on epic items. It would hardly be overpowered, since its ability is outclassed by a tangleroot clicky in 98% of situations.

/agreed.

grodon9999
04-27-2011, 07:46 AM
+3 Dodge AC.

Auran82
04-27-2011, 07:56 AM
I would like to see some really special ones as rare drops and others that are able to be bought.

Stuff like:
+2 Exceptional Stat
+1 Profane/some other bonus stat
+5/+10 Exceptional resist
The +hp and +sp bonuses from shroud gear
+exceptional skill bonuses
Dodge bonuses
+7 stat
+8 enhancement bonus

As well as having all the ones we can buy be able to drop from epic chests, nothing says 'instant gratification' like pulling a GFL augment crystal that you might have otherwise traded tokens for.

Maybe even some 'set' augment crystals that might give a small bonus by themselves and a larger bonus if both are slotted.

noinfo
04-27-2011, 07:56 AM
Does anyone feel that the +4 prot and +4 natural armor should be made +5's? Or do people actually
use them as +4's?

Colourless-> +5 prot/Natural
Yellow-> +1 Stacking Natural
Blue-> +2 Natural or Dodge

Solmage
04-27-2011, 08:15 AM
+3 Dodge AC.

Nuh-uh, you're so not making my grind for the !(#^&!*#&* titan !(#^! ring be COMPLETELY pointless, more so than it already is at any rate! /:mad:

;)

But while we're speaking of making rare loot totally obsolete, let's add a +1 profane bonus to stats so we can save a totally valuable trinket slot :)

sephiroth1084
04-27-2011, 09:56 AM
Nuh-uh, you're so not making my grind for the !(#^&!*#&* titan !(#^! ring be COMPLETELY pointless, more so than it already is at any rate! /:mad:

;)

But while we're speaking of making rare loot totally obsolete, let's add a +1 profane bonus to stats so we can save a totally valuable trinket slot :)
The Chattering Ring has been out for a bit longer than The Abbot, has no impact on most characters, has only 1 relevant stat, and takes up an important slot. At some point we need to start replacing level 9 and 11 items with endgame gear.

I have a ring. It was a ***** to get. He's used it for over 2 years now, I think, and if I TR that character again, he will (again) have +3 AC for half the game, which is pretty phenomenal. Adding the ability to acquire the bonus on epic gear certainly won't make having acquired it a waste.

Solmage
04-27-2011, 10:41 AM
The Chattering Ring has been out for a bit longer than The Abbot, has no impact on most characters, has only 1 relevant stat, and takes up an important slot. At some point we need to start replacing level 9 and 11 items with endgame gear.

I have a ring. It was a ***** to get. He's used it for over 2 years now, I think, and if I TR that character again, he will (again) have +3 AC for half the game, which is pretty phenomenal. Adding the ability to acquire the bonus on epic gear certainly won't make having acquired it a waste.

I disagree with your assessment.

I think one of DDOs greatest strengths is the fact that the level of the item plays relatively little into determining how powerful it actually is, which keeps old, fun content worth running, instead of making DDO a rush to level 20 so you can start equipping your character.

With this in mind, my comment was tongue in cheek, since there simply is no way they're adding dodge bonuses or +1 LoD-like bonuses to any epic item with a slot, it's simply too powerful. Even dodge +2 could be a bit unbalancing. I think such bonuses are best left as part of raid items. For example, an epic leather armour of spiffiyness that also has +2 or +3 dodge bonus or something.

Valindria
04-27-2011, 10:46 AM
I'd like to see healing amp as an option as well as many of the things mentioned. Maybe not 30% as it is pretty rare right now (GS weapon and epic gloves). Not sure if it was mentioned but +15 to a single skill (except UMD) could also be a good use of colorless.

Solmage
04-27-2011, 11:01 AM
I'd like to see healing amp as an option as well as many of the things mentioned. Maybe not 30% as it is pretty rare right now (GS weapon and epic gloves). Not sure if it was mentioned but +15 to a single skill (except UMD) could also be a good use of colorless.

I agree, +15 to a single skill would be nice for colorless, and would increase the usefulness of several items a bit. Also wouldn't mind seeing 10% healing amp, it seems innocuous enough yet still fairly useful.

sephiroth1084
04-27-2011, 11:38 AM
I disagree with your assessment.

I think one of DDOs greatest strengths is the fact that the level of the item plays relatively little into determining how powerful it actually is, which keeps old, fun content worth running, instead of making DDO a rush to level 20 so you can start equipping your character.

With this in mind, my comment was tongue in cheek, since there simply is no way they're adding dodge bonuses or +1 LoD-like bonuses to any epic item with a slot, it's simply too powerful. Even dodge +2 could be a bit unbalancing. I think such bonuses are best left as part of raid items. For example, an epic leather armour of spiffiyness that also has +2 or +3 dodge bonus or something.
Personally, I find there is enough incentive to run things like Titan while leveling thanks to XP, favor, variety, challenge and on-level loot. I don't like the need to run a quest that poses absolutely 0 zero challenge a dozen or more times at level 20 for a rather uninteresting item that has no parallel in endgame-generated loot.

Yeah, it's kinda nice that all of the raids have gear worth using even at level 20, but forcing players to run those raids well after they've become a total cakewalk isn't very good design, and isn't fun.

I'd be up for more epic items that directly replace some of those early raid items, such as an epic ring with +3 Dodge, a slot of some kind, and some other bonus on it. Honestly, though, I proposed it as a slot augment because it's ridiculous how much time and space AC-minded characters have to devote to every single bonus. Before this update came out, we were beholden to the Chaosgardes (a lvl 9 item) in bracers and the Chattering Ring (ml 9), which, among other things, are pretty boring items. Compare them to any set of raid- or epic-level bracers or rings from Shroud onward.

Levik's, +6 Str, +20% Healing Amp, set bonus for +3 Insight AC (semi-useless) and +20% threat, vs. Chaosgardes, +2 Dodge AC, and you basically need the latter, so you can't really use the former.

ToD rings vs. Chattering.

Any epic anything vs. Chattering and Chaosgardes. Sure, it's nice that old loot is still relevant, but what other characters are running around with level 9 loot still when they've been running epics for a year (excluding the Bloodstone)? Half the gear decisions I've made on my AC tank revolve around keeping those two items on. And why? Because their straight numeric bonuses simply haven't been adequately reproduced.

We've eclipsed stuff like the Belt of Brute Strength and Belt of the Moranon. Should the game have backed away from doing so, simply to preserve the value of those items? It's ridiculous that that basically every interesting item set that would benefit the type of character I have (heavy armored AC threat tank) results in a loss of AC. If the Levik's set had granted a +2 Dodge bonus to AC instead of +3 Insight, or in addition to +3 Insight, I would have been using those raid items, but I couldn't. Or the Epic Ring of the Silver Concord. +7 Cha, +6 Protection, slot. That would be pretty awesome on a paladin like mine...except that it represents a loss in AC even as it has a +AC enhancement on it, so I can't wear it.

There's no reason for this nonsense.

Junts
04-27-2011, 11:44 AM
Personally, I find there is enough incentive to run things like Titan while leveling thanks to XP, favor, variety, challenge and on-level loot. I don't like the need to run a quest that poses absolutely 0 zero challenge a dozen or more times at level 20 for a rather uninteresting item that has no parallel in endgame-generated loot.

Yeah, it's kinda nice that all of the raids have gear worth using even at level 20, but forcing players to run those raids well after they've become a total cakewalk isn't very good design, and isn't fun.

I'd be up for more epic items that directly replace some of those early raid items, such as an epic ring with +3 Dodge, a slot of some kind, and some other bonus on it. Honestly, though, I proposed it as a slot augment because it's ridiculous how much time and space AC-minded characters have to devote to every single bonus. Before this update came out, we were beholden to the Chaosgardes (a lvl 9 item) in bracers and the Chattering Ring (ml 9), which, among other things, are pretty boring items. Compare them to any set of raid- or epic-level bracers or rings from Shroud onward.

Levik's, +6 Str, +20% Healing Amp, set bonus for +3 Insight AC (semi-useless) and +20% threat, vs. Chaosgardes, +2 Dodge AC, and you basically need the latter, so you can't really use the former.

ToD rings vs. Chattering.

Any epic anything vs. Chattering and Chaosgardes. Sure, it's nice that old loot is still relevant, but what other characters are running around with level 9 loot still when they've been running epics for a year (excluding the Bloodstone)? Half the gear decisions I've made on my AC tank revolve around keeping those two items on. And why? Because their straight numeric bonuses simply haven't been adequately reproduced.

We've eclipsed stuff like the Belt of Brute Strength and Belt of the Moranon. Should the game have backed away from doing so, simply to preserve the value of those items? It's ridiculous that that basically every interesting item set that would benefit the type of character I have (heavy armored AC threat tank) results in a loss of AC. If the Levik's set had granted a +2 Dodge bonus to AC instead of +3 Insight, or in addition to +3 Insight, I would have been using those raid items, but I couldn't. Or the Epic Ring of the Silver Concord. +7 Cha, +6 Protection, slot. That would be pretty awesome on a paladin like mine...except that it represents a loss in AC even as it has a +AC enhancement on it, so I can't wear it.

There's no reason for this nonsense.

While I'd agree that another source of that effect would be welcome, it certainly shouldn't be anywhere you choose via an augment slot.

grodon9999
04-27-2011, 12:08 PM
While I'd agree that another source of that effect would be welcome, it certainly shouldn't be anywhere you choose via an augment slot.

If AC continues to remain useless at end-game (epics, works fine everywhere else) then why not?

If the end game is changed so AC has more value the you have a point as wearing that damn-friggin-pain-in-the nutsack-to-get ring will cost you DPS to equip.

We're at the point in gear now where the DPS cost for equipped AC gear is way closer to balanced that it was when epics first appeared (from what the in-game geezer tell me as I wasn't there).

QuantumFX
04-27-2011, 05:38 PM
While I'd agree that another source of that effect would be welcome, it certainly shouldn't be anywhere you choose via an augment slot.

Attach it to an unusual slot color. Blue would be a good candidate.

Solmage
04-27-2011, 08:25 PM
While I'd agree that another source of that effect would be welcome, it certainly shouldn't be anywhere you choose via an augment slot.

And this was my point. I even included an imaginary leather armour with the bonus in it.

Matuse
04-28-2011, 01:18 AM
Attach it to an unusual slot color. Blue would be a good candidate.

In which case you turn the Tier3 buccaneer's ring into a chattering ring...only WAY WAY better, and 100x easier to get.