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Kahath
04-22-2011, 04:28 AM
Hello all,

I have a few questions regarding halflings, dragonmaks and fighters. I'm currently trying to build something with the following goals:
* Melee
* Decent DPS (doesn't have to be max, but should be good).
* Self healing, even at higher level quests.
* Evasion.

So I went forth, and built a 18 Fighter / 2 Rogue 2WF Khopesh user (I have Khopeshes from a previous life: 2 x Min II & 1 x Rad II), Halfling with all dragonmarks. So far so good, but:

Will the dragonmarks alone be able to cover my healing needs, even beyound lower levels?
I heard something about dragonmark users are able to use appropriate scrolls of the spells their dragonmarks can cast, i.e. a halfling dragonmarker can use Healj scrolls. Is that true?
Is the fighter the best choice, or should I look towards another class which could bring more to self sufficiency?

FuzzyDuck81
04-22-2011, 04:50 AM
The dragonmarks are unlikely to cover all your needs, however they WILL make a significant difference for emergency use but without the ability to use metamagics to boost them (no caster class) they'll naturally be less effective.

Since you already have some good gear built up, if you're interested in decent melee with good self sufficiency you could just go with one of the battlecleric builds, eg 12 cleric/6 fighter/2monk & not bother with the dragonmarks at all - i've seen a couple of them in action played well & they're very effective.

IIRC the ability to use scrolls of the dragonmarks was a bug which i think has been fixed now.

Kahath
04-22-2011, 05:13 AM
The dragonmarks are unlikely to cover all your needs, however they WILL make a significant difference for emergency use but without the ability to use metamagics to boost them (no caster class) they'll naturally be less effective.

Interesting...


Since you already have some good gear built up, if you're interested in decent melee with good self sufficiency you could just go with one of the battlecleric builds, eg 12 cleric/6 fighter/2monk & not bother with the dragonmarks at all - i've seen a couple of them in action played well & they're very effective.

I am not so sure if these are really as effective. Especially if you have a cleric icon and people then expect you to heal too...


IIRC the ability to use scrolls of the dragonmarks was a bug which i think has been fixed now.

Ah snap.

What about a 2 Monk / 6 Paladin/Ranger / 12 Fighter, and use the four levels of paladin for a prerequisite for Empower Healing?

Rusty_Can
04-22-2011, 05:52 AM
What about a 2 Monk / 6 Paladin/Ranger / 12 Fighter, and use the four levels of paladin for a prerequisite for Empower Healing?

I like the "6 ranger" option: you would get a bucketload of free stuff (TWF, ITWF, a couple of Favored Enemies, situational Manyshot, Ram's Might).

Rdonaccount
04-22-2011, 06:09 AM
Here is the build I'm currently levelling: its a 34 point build, but can be worked with both 28 and 32 points:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Female
(12 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 326
Spell Points: 70
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 18
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 5
Bluff -1 4
Concentration 2 5
Diplomacy -1 1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0
Heal 2 5
Hide 3 9
Intimidate -1 1
Jump 3 10
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 3 7
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 2 3
Swim 3 8
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 8 (Ranger)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II




It's a very fun class to play, the healing is limited but great to have in emergencies, much better than heal scrolls i used in my rogue life. AC has been great so far, but that is with TR gear (icy's/gs). It won't be dominant endgame, but should still dodge a few attacks. It would be tough to lose the bonus feats from monk, but 14 fighter/6 ranger might work as well. And superior ardor 6 clickies are awesome. But yeah, built this with basically the same goals that you have in mind, and havent been disappointed with the build yet.

here is a breakdown on the healing: With devotion 2, superior ardor VI clickies, and healing amp 10 & 20%, i'll roughly have 8 DMs for ~50 hp, 6 DMs for ~160hp, and 4 DMs for ~385 hp. Getting some high end gear like the epic claw set would push that even farther. And because you can use 3 minute ardor clickies, that is basically instant cast healing with no gear swapping mid fight. DPS is solid enough, and the reflex save and evasion is good enough for any non-epic content, but would need a few buffs to be no fail in certain epic situations.

donfilibuster
04-22-2011, 06:29 AM
A fighter can afford the marks, but a more feat starved class probably want to pass.

I liked my halfling fighter and halfling wizard very much but later on decided to just take umd for heal scrolls.
Scrolls are nowhere near useful as marks in mid-combat, the marks are poorman's lay-on-hands, very fast in emergencies.

Scrolls are slow, take off your weapon, and the umd dice seems rigged :/
On the other hand, if you can better use those three feats elsewhere your offense would be your best defense.

Rdonaccount
04-22-2011, 07:50 AM
To answer the specific questions at the end of your post:

1. The DM's won't be enough to cover all of your needs, especially without metamagics and on a low ac/no dr toon which you are describing. My pure monk has all 3 DM's, the greater is really nice for jams, but i rely a lot on outside healing in groups, or wholeness of body when soloing.

2. No, you can't use the corresponding scrolls for DMs. There was a bug a while back that added the halfling DM spells to the wiz list for no umd (which was fixed in u3 or 4), but as a fighter, you'll still have the umd check for heal scrolls.

3. fighter is the best choice, but adding levels of a class that can get meta's will help DM's significantly. 4 levels of ranger allow you to take empower/max. 4 levels of pld lets you take those and emp healing (which affects the greater mark). and 1 level of wiz could allow you to take emp/max as well as giving you a bonus feat for one of those.

4. All of that said, 18ftr/2rogue should be able to get enough UMD for no fail heal scrolls, especially if you take skill focus: umd for one of your feats. but swapping gear and possibly having to make concentration checks reduces the effectiveness of that in my eyes, but it is sustainable long after DM's are used up. It's really a matter of choice. Halfling DM's won't make you invincible, but they add a significant amount of self-sufficiency if built correctly.

cforce
04-22-2011, 08:27 AM
3. fighter is the best choice, but adding levels of a class that can get meta's will help DM's significantly. 4 levels of ranger allow you to take empower/max. 4 levels of pld lets you take those and emp healing (which affects the greater mark). and 1 level of wiz could allow you to take emp/max as well as giving you a bonus feat for one of those.


QFT. Marks with metas can be a valuable self-sufficiency tool. The Least and Lesser marks without metas are not all that valuable, turning it into a 3-feat investment for 5 heals.

If you want dragonmarks, find a way to fix Maximize, at least.

Kahath
04-22-2011, 10:31 AM
Thanks everyone for the tips and great suggestions. I'll look at the builds you have posted and will go back to the drawing board.

Rdonaccount build looks great, and I'm sure I can use a lot of good tips you all have given. Cheers!

ciopo
04-23-2011, 11:54 AM
you should try this http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=260560

Kahath
04-24-2011, 12:01 PM
I went back to the drawing board and came up with this: My entry to the world of self sufficiency and all around toons (how we called them back on EU Keeper "Monster-Schrecks").

The only thing I'm still unsure is:

* Is Paladin Devotion II really going to be useful? Will it apply to Dragonmarks?

But it has this:

* Decent AC
* Excellent Saves with Evasion
* Decent HP (it's never going to be a frontline tank but that's ok)
* Decent DPS (Kensai II)
* Lay on Hands for emergencies
* Some cool Paladin stuff (Fear Immunity, Smite Evil, Exalted Smite I, Divine Sacrifice I)
* Maximize for Dragonmarks

This I would like to improve one day through another TR:

* +2 CON
* Perhaps juggle AP around, leave some paladin stuff out and get another tier of Toughness

His Divine Shortness (http://lexx.wikia.com/wiki/His_Divine_Shadow)
2 Monk / 6 Paladin / 12 Fighter

STR: 14 +5 Bumps +2 Tome +3 Fighter +6 Item = 30 (+2 Madstone +8 Power Surge +2 Rage ...)
DEX: 16 +6 Item +2 Tome +2 Halfling = 26
CON: 12 +6 Item +2 Tome = 20
INT: 11 +2 Tome = 13
WIS: 13 +1 Monk +2 Tome +6 Item = 22
CHA: 14 +2 Tome +6 Item = 22

Level Progression:
2 Monk, 6 Paladin, 12 Fighter

Use a huge bloody twohander until level 12.

1: Dragonmark I
1: MBF: TWF
2: MBF: Toughness
3: Khopesh
6: Dragonmark II
9: Maximize Spell
9: FBF: IC: Slash
10: FBF: Improved 2WF
12: Dragonmark III
12: FBF: Weapon Focus: Slash
14: FBF: Greater 2WF
15: Weapon Spec.: Slashing
16: PA
18: CE
18: FBF: Oversized 2WF
20: Greater Spec.: Slashing

Enhancements:
01 Paladin AC Boost I
03 Fighter Attack Boost II
10 Fighter Hajste Boost IV
10 Extra Dragonmark IV
02 Kensai Khopesh Master II
03 Fighter Critical Accuracy II
06 Fighter Kensai II
01 Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
01 Monk Way of Hit Points
01 Paladin Courage of Good I
01 Paladin Bulwark of Good I
01 Paladin Focus of Good I
01 Paladin Resistance of Good I
01 Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
01 Paladin Exaltet Smite I
01 Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
03 Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
04 Paladin Defender of Siberys
03 Racial Toughness II
03 Paladin Devotion II
12 Fighter Strength III
02 Monk Wisdom I
03 Fighter Toughness II
06 Halfling Dex II
-----------------------------------------
80 Points Spend

Skills:
Max: UMD & Intimi


AC
10 ... Base
01 ... Alchemical
01 ... Halfling
08 ... Dexterity
06 ... Wisdom
08 ... AC Bracers
04 ... Shroud Insight
02 ... Own Aura
04 ... Insight AC
05 ... Protection Shroud Item
03 ... Dodge DragonTouched
-----------------------------------------
52 ... "Lalala AC" aka Beholder AC
-----------------------------------------
01 ... Hajste
03 ... Bark
04 ... Sheljd Wand
02 ... Recitation Wand
-----------------------------------------
62 ... Self Buff AC
-----------------------------------------
05 ... CE
02 ... Defender
-----------------------------------------
69 ... "I can haz AC?" mode
-----------------------------------------
02 ... Full Ranger Bark
04 ... A friendly Bard
04 ... Another friendly Paladin
-----------------------------------------
79 ... "Never goin' to happen" raid buffed.

HP
--
30 ... Heroic/Draconic
120 ... Fighter
60 ... Paladin
16 ... Monk
100 ... Constitution
5 ... Way of the HP
22 ... Toughness
20 ... Minos / Toughness
40 ... Toughness Enhancement
30 ... GFL
45 ... Shroud
-----------------------------------------
488 ... HP

Some gear I have around for him:
2 x Min II Khopesh
1 x Rad II Khopesh
1 x Min II Cloak
1 x Tharnes
Tons x Twink Stuff

Gnorbert
04-25-2011, 10:07 AM
IF you're going to use a 2 hander until level 12 then you might as well swap the weapon focus feat to level 3 and move khopesh to level 12. at least you'll get some benefit out of the feat for 9 levels.

What are you TRing from? is the past life feat not worth it for you?

Kahath
04-25-2011, 12:41 PM
IF you're going to use a 2 hander until level 12 then you might as well swap the weapon focus feat to level 3 and move khopesh to level 12. at least you'll get some benefit out of the feat for 9 levels.

What are you TRing from? is the past life feat not worth it for you?

Good idea.

I'm TRing from a Rogue.