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Ranger-Lord
04-21-2011, 06:39 AM
Hey. I'm a level 2 ranger with trained Hide and Stealth walking.

But I'm having real trouble with this quest. Whenever I open the first door, there's a prophet standing right outside it. No matter what I do, he always sees me, and I can't seem to lose him.

I've read people say they've went through this dungeon without killing a single prophet, but I don't know how they could have done that.

Any help is appreciated.

Btw, I do have Sprint. But for that first prophet I encounter, there's only one empty room I can sprint to (the entrance room), and that is hardly large enough to lose him that way. I could only sprint into the rooms further down the dungeon, and that'd alert everyone to my presence, obviously.

Draccus
04-21-2011, 06:44 AM
The prophets have incredibly high Listen skill. You are probably being heard through the door. Try stealthing long before you get to the door and staying stationary after you open it before you re-hide.

It's a challenging quest to be done with stealth, especially on elite. I built a level 1 rogue solely to try to stealth this on elite and actually had to gain 3 AP in order to get my Move Silently high enough to stealth past the prophets. I had to use skill boosts in certain spots to avoid being heard.

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3958/screenshot00107n.jpg

Level 1 rogue on elite with no kills. Now, cue the dozens of people who will chime in with "I just run full speed to the end with my barbarian."

Lithic
04-21-2011, 06:44 AM
The way I do this is I kill everything in sight (including prophets) until there is only 1 left. Then I run like hell (preferably with an invisibility clickie or potion) for the last 2 switches and go grab the gem. AFter that you can slaughter indiscriminantly.

If you want to stealth your way through, then approach that first door while sneaking. Move to the side of the door and open it as far away from the door as you can be while still clicking it. This way you are out of line of sight of that first kobold.

katana_one
04-21-2011, 06:54 AM
Yep, completely doable with stealth, and not killing any prophets (or any kobolds for that matter).

But if you're having trouble, remember that you can kill 5 prophets and still get the completion. The advice above for that first prophet is correct, but if you mess it up it's okay to kill him. You'll just have a little less room for error.

When you get to the levers that have to be pulled, watch the movements of the kobolds nearby - make sure they are facing away from you when you pull the lever, and be ready to re-stealth immediately. Opening doors and pulling levers breaks stealth, so timing is essential!

BOgre
04-21-2011, 06:54 AM
At level 2, your stealth skills are no match for these mobs' spot/listen skills on any difficulty above Casual. Even later on by level 4 or 5 you need to be really stealthy to avoid detection here. Invisibility potions can be helpful, but not a guarantee of success. You need to activate the levers at the precise moment the Prophets are their farthest from you, looking the other way and then re-enter Sneak mode as soon as possible. And again, even that may not be enough. I have stealthed my way past the 1st 3 levers, but always get busted in the room with the orange-named kobold witchdoctor. There are ways though, like fascinating or holding or otherwise controlling the Prophets, and killing the others, but I found the best way to be a full on sprint to the Eye, grab it, and then kill at will. Even with a higher level toon, on Elite, the 'Harried' effect of running through this dungeon makes it super tough. Don't feel bad if you don't complete it with a level 2 toon.

blitzschlag
04-21-2011, 06:57 AM
At level 2, your stealth skills are no match for these mobs' spot/listen skills on any difficulty above Casual. Even later on by level 4 or 5 you need to be really stealthy to avoid detection here.

how can you write that while a screenshot of a lvl 1 rogue doing elite is in post #2 that prooves otherwise?

LoveNeverFails
04-21-2011, 06:59 AM
but I found the best way to be a full on sprint to the Eye, grab it, and then kill at will. Even with a higher level toon, on Elite, the 'Harried' effect of running through this dungeon makes it super tough. Don't feel bad if you don't complete it with a level 2 toon.

This. I usually don't touch that quest until level 6 ish, and even then it is to run through, and pray for the best.

The only time i've ever finished this quest relatively at leve was with a bard, and i just fascinated the **** out of everything.

katana_one
04-21-2011, 07:05 AM
I once soloed it on a pure melee fighter with nothing but Korthos gear at level, just because people in another thread were complaining about how hard the quest was without stealth. And no, I didn't just run to the end - I stopped to kill kobolds in almost every room on the way.

CrushingInklings
04-21-2011, 07:08 AM
I love this quest. Its so fast and great exp for the time spent in there. I normally bind at the lobster. Pick up quest. Zone in. Summon hireling and have it set on stand ground so it doenst follow me(ill summon it to me if things get scary). Sprint/haste/ER until i get to gem to pick up. Once quest complete i type /death. Turn in quest. Zone back in summon hirling to heal me and repeat. It takes less then 2 minutes to get from the inn to finishing the quest so its worth zerg repeating until its dry.

Ranger-Lord
04-21-2011, 07:19 AM
Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone. You've all been helpful.

I'll let you know how I did. I'm off to replay it now.

somenewnoob
04-21-2011, 07:28 AM
I got lucky when I ran it at level with my fighter, I got about a half dozen prophets stuck behind a crate in one of the rooms and got them off my back for the rest of the quest. That was about my 3rd try on it though.

That was the quest I disliked the most until I ran Gladewatch. Now SR don't seem so bad!

Synnestar35791
04-21-2011, 07:34 AM
They are the nemisis for sure.

I usually avoid stooping with exception for throwing switches.
If I get cornered, I kill just exactly what it takes to allow speed to win.

Stealth is soo very hard in this one. That high listen and spot they have really makes it difficult..

How much patience did you say you had?

Matuse
04-21-2011, 07:45 AM
Get a couple of invis potions, and avoid gathering up TOO many of them.

The prophets are incredibly feeble melee combatants, you can lug a whole bunch of them around and not be in any danger. Just kill all the non-prophets (which gives you optional XP, and Conquest), and drag the prophets around with you. If a couple of them accidentally get thumped, no problem, you have a cushion.

donfilibuster
04-21-2011, 08:36 AM
The trick is avoiding dungeon alert, not just wether you sneak, invis, kill or zerg.

What you do may vary from part to part, since the shamans can still see you.
The thing you practice in stealthy repo is not sneak, but their chasing distances.
Knowing how to outrun the enemy is the thing every stealthy toon needs to master.

If the first prophet see you while opening the gate and give chase, but you may just ignore him.
You can sneak to the lever before that prophet catches up, then sneak again to the other lever while the kobolds wake up.
Once there you can't sneak out because of the shaman, but you can outrun them to the next passage.
Since most of the kobolds had not seen you the first time you can avoid alert as long as you get out of there fast.
That's the very room everyone dies from dungeon alert or from hold person.

The resneak would be short lived but serves to avoid counting the next bunch of kobolds toward dungeon alert.
Up to the bridge, then you drop and keep sneaking to avoid the ones below (can enter sneak while falling).
From the lever you may have to run back to the top, which is short enough there won't be alert unless you let all the kobolds catch up.
Then drop again and get into the lower part.

At the lower part you can sneak to the lever but once there you have to run to the gem as you can't sneak the shamans.
Once you grab the gem it is *their* turn to run away.

If you really have trouble re-sneaking consider just using invisibility, of which you need a dozen pots or uses.
It is very useful to learn to re-invis after each door and lever.
Remember they don't really see you but rather run in your general direction and attack blindly if they catch up.

Ranger-Lord
04-21-2011, 10:50 AM
I did it.

Turned on my stealth while approaching the first door as advised... it worked. Let some of the prophets stalk me towards the end, dealing me -1 damage here and there... focused on taking out the Shamans when they all started attacking at once (those guys are especially dangerous if left unchecked).

"You wait till I steal your little trinket, because then your asses are mine," I said to the prophets. And true to my words, I cut them down the instant I grabbed the crystal. What a sense of satisfaction.

Thanks for all the help, guys, it would've taken me a very long time to figure this out if not for you.

redspecter23
04-21-2011, 10:58 AM
Sadly this quest can be stealthed but is about 10x faster and easier if you just run and keep yourself invisible as much as possible after opening doors. Keep a shield clicky running to avoid magic missile on difficulties where they cast it. Kill nothing until the end, then slaughter at will after your xp is awarded. The inherent problem with many stealty quests is that they are just plain faster and many times easier if you run while invisible. Good players can in fact sneak through a great many quests and probably with good speed as well, but many will struggle with it until they learn all the intricacies of it.

Talon_Moonshadow
04-21-2011, 11:03 AM
As soon as you enter the quest, go into sneak mode before you move. (there is a way to go into sneak mode before you enter the quest, but it is not needed.)(good to keep in mind in some pugs though)

Sneak to the door.
Sneak to the side of the door....not in front of it.

I believe that this door can be seen through by the Prophet.

Open the door from the side...out of line of sight. So that when you stand up, he will not see you. While he can see through the door, he cannot see through the wall next to the door.

Do not take a single step out of sneak mode. If you do, he will hear you.
(Try Casual first...there is a diference betwen their Spot/Listen scores on different difficulties. And Shaman/Witchdoctors...especially orange named ones have high Spot/Listen scores)


Do the whole dungeon slowly.

Watch patrol paterns before using levers.

Do not take a single step unstealthed! Ever! Even when you think no Kobolds are near you.

You can kill a few prophets without failing the quest. (five?)
So if you agro one early, go ahead and kill him.
Best to drag him back to a safe, quite spot and try to fight him with no other Kobolds near.







I have chars on every server, and would be happy to log on and give some stealth lessons.

Flavilandile
04-21-2011, 11:13 AM
There's no problem to do it, it's just a matter of patience.

Just a few advices :
- take your time.
- watch the pattern of the kobolds from far away and find the safest path and time to stealth your way in the rooms.
- wait, wait, wait and wait again... make sure the kobolds are far enough before pulling that lever.
- invisibility helps
- hug to walls.

wonkey
04-21-2011, 11:16 AM
To all the naysayers, I'm not sure if I've ever done this at level 1, but I definitely have, on hard and elite, with levels 2,3 and 4 (our guild doesn't do casual or normal, and I haven't played out of guild in a long time, so I can't comment on those).
There are lots of different ways to do this quest.

Since we don't buy potions and stuff, I've never tried the invisibility route, but I've heard it works wonders.

It CAN be sneaked. You don't have to be a super-sneak to do it, either, though it helps. That seems to be the typical way we do it. But it takes practice to be good enough at it. You have to keep an eye on all the kobolds, open doors from the side, and for the love of god, take off your shield, and probably your armor!!

If that fails, crowd control works. Either with an intimitank, or just a tough guy to get attention and soak up the damage, or with spells. Make sure to put down any shamans you agro quickly, as you do for any caster in any quest, really.

If that fails, there's a ledge in between the first prophet and the second where you can drag kobolds up onto, and they tend not to follow you back down (if you jump off the side) [I hope this is not considered an exploit]. It can be frustrating getting more than one or two up there at a time, though.

You can even have one guy grab attention, and just run them around. Kobolds aren't great pursuers. They tend to stop and think a lot. Kill the ones that aren't prophets to control dungeon alert.

And, if you are close to the end by the time all hell breaks loose, you can always dash for completion, then kill to your heart's content.

BOgre
04-21-2011, 11:16 AM
how can you write that while a screenshot of a lvl 1 rogue doing elite is in post #2 that prooves otherwise?

Easy. The screenshot clearly shows this toon is overleveled, and points spent. The poster (dracus) says himself he built the toon specifically to stealth this quest. This is not a standard Rogue, it's a special case, built only to do this one quest.

Now maybe it's possible to complete at-level with a 'real' build and with the IC bonus, but you'd have to be REALLY good, and probably EXTREMELY lucky as well.

Anyways OP, glad you beat it. BooYah!

cdemeritt
04-21-2011, 11:19 AM
At level 2, your stealth skills are no match for these mobs' spot/listen skills on any difficulty above Casual..


how can you write that while a screenshot of a lvl 1 rogue doing elite is in post #2 that prooves otherwise?

I lol'd.... I love seeing people post about things that are "impossible", Especially when they are very possible...

wonkey
04-21-2011, 11:20 AM
Easy. The screenshot clearly shows this toon is overleveled, and points spent. The poster (dracus) says himself he built the toon specifically to stealth this quest. This is not a standard Rogue, it's a special case, built only to do this one quest.

Now maybe it's possible to complete at-level with a 'real' build and with the IC bonus, but you'd have to be REALLY good, and probably EXTREMELY lucky as well.

Anyways OP, glad you beat it. BooYah!

It's really not that hard, if you have the patience. Not saying its a cakewalk, especially on elite, but very doable at level (I mean, sneaking through it). And you don't need insane sneak numbers.

somenewnoob
04-21-2011, 11:20 AM
I did it.

Turned on my stealth while approaching the first door as advised... it worked. Let some of the prophets stalk me towards the end, dealing me -1 damage here and there... focused on taking out the Shamans when they all started attacking at once (those guys are especially dangerous if left unchecked).

"You wait till I steal your little trinket, because then your asses are mine," I said to the prophets. And true to my words, I cut them down the instant I grabbed the crystal. What a sense of satisfaction.

Thanks for all the help, guys, it would've taken me a very long time to figure this out if not for you.

Oh yeah, I cut those bastiches down with GLEE when the quest was finished!

Cam_Neely
04-21-2011, 11:21 AM
I just did it on elite with my barbarian at lv 20 for favor and ...

"I just run full speed to the end with my barbarian."

:p

cdemeritt
04-21-2011, 11:24 AM
Easy. The screenshot clearly shows this toon is overleveled, and points spent. The poster (dracus) says himself he built the toon specifically to stealth this quest. This is not a standard Rogue, it's a special case, built only to do this one quest.

Now maybe it's possible to complete at-level with a 'real' build and with the IC bonus, but you'd have to be REALLY good, and probably EXTREMELY lucky as well.

Anyways OP, glad you beat it. BooYah!
NVM... I'll just LOL.

OLDTIMEDD
04-21-2011, 11:38 AM
I agree that it canbe stealthed and is kinda of fun to do that way. But as noted you need paitence to do so.

As for the 1st prophet seeing you, Don't wait long after entering to stealth and move away as he will attack as soon as you open the door if you wait too long.

Talon_Moonshadow
04-21-2011, 11:40 AM
I love this quest. Its so fast and great exp for the time spent in there. I normally bind at the lobster. Pick up quest. Zone in. Summon hireling and have it set on stand ground so it doenst follow me(ill summon it to me if things get scary). Sprint/haste/ER until i get to gem to pick up. Once quest complete i type /death. Turn in quest. Zone back in summon hirling to heal me and repeat. It takes less then 2 minutes to get from the inn to finishing the quest so its worth zerg repeating until its dry.

I can stealth through this, usually at level. Usually with zero agro.

In less than five minutes. I think I can do it in about three minutes actually. :cool:

Matuse
04-21-2011, 02:05 PM
Easy. The screenshot clearly shows this toon is overleveled, and points spent.

Yes, clearly a level 1 character in a level 4 dungeon is vastly overleveled.

In order to prove that this can be done, he should be doing it with a 0 level commoner.

BTW, where do you see "points spent"? His character sheet isn't visible.

Sour grapes much?

LoneWolfie
04-21-2011, 02:12 PM
Yes, clearly a level 1 character in a level 4 dungeon is vastly overleveled.

In order to prove that this can be done, he should be doing it with a 0 level commoner.

BTW, where do you see "points spent"? His character sheet isn't visible.

Sour grapes much?

not that i'm agreeing with the guy or anything
but the post included with the screenshot even admitted he had to spend 3 ap to get his stealth high enough

BOgre
04-21-2011, 02:40 PM
Where do I see points spent? Really? I see that he doesn't have an AP icon showing, so he spent them. I'm not having sour grapes either, I think you may want to look up the meaning of that expression. All I said was that the rogue in the pic isn't built the way a normal pc would build. And All I'm trying to get across is that the OP, being new and inexperienced, like I am, isn't likely to be able to get the IC bonus with an at-level toon. You'd have to be really good and really lucky, like the posters who've been here since 2006, chiming in about how quickly they can do it and how easy it is for them....

What I'm not seeing is how you folks, vets, long time community members are contributing to the discussion by ragging on me. At least my posts make a point. What's yours again? That you're all so uber? yay, have a cookie.

Draccus
04-21-2011, 03:42 PM
I used a level 1 character with 4 APs spent and no twink gear. In fact, I don't think I wore any gear at all. I *may* have run the quest on Korthos to get the Nimble Brooch for the +1 dex. When combined with the Rogue Dexterity enhancement, that would have given me one more point of MS. I certainly didn't have the entire set as you can see the set bonus icon isn't lit.

Improved Move Silently I
Halfling Silent Moves I
Rogue Skill Boost I
Rogue Dexterity I

I tried it several times to test the MS skill needed. I think I ended up with a max MS of 16 or something like with Skill Boost active.

I tried it with one less AP but was surprised I was heard without Skill Boost. So I went back and gained enough XP for Level 1, Rank 5 and was successful. The challenge was knowing when and where to use Skill Boost since it is short duration and I only had 5 uses. I think I used 4 of them.

I must have used a big quest (Ringleader or Info is Key) to gain my last rank as I'm Level 1, Rank 6 in the screenshot. The overleveling is irrelevant since you don't get the AP until you take the level.

So this was definitely a character specifically built to run this quest solo on elite with zero kills...or even zero aggro'd monsters. But I wouldn't say it's THAT far from a character that would be built normally. Of the four APs I used, only 1 is an enhancement players would normally not take: Halfling Silent Moves. Improved MS is required for Assassin, so that's a very common enhancement.

But, you are certainly correct in that the character was built solely to run this on elite at level 1. She was deleted promptly after finishing because I despise halflings and didn't like seeing one on my character page :)

EDITED: One more odd thing I did was take my starting Dex all the way to 20. That's certainly not recommended for most normal characters. Of course, Dresek started out with 20 dex, too, so while it may not be smart, it's not uncommon :)

varusso
04-21-2011, 03:54 PM
This quest is easily completable at lvl 1, on elite, in about 2 mins.

6 clickies of invisibility are all you need. You can even do it with 4 or 5 if you know it well enough, but it is EZ mode with 6. Learn the dungeon, know where the levers are, learn to hit a door/lever and immediately re-invis while jumping so you dont get penned in by kobolds.

Jump whenever you are running invised so as to avoid building the dungeon alert too quickly. Dont kill anything EVER. That way you dont have to worry about accidentally killing the prophets AND you get an extra bonus for comeplting with 0 mob kills.

You will need to browse the AH for lvl 1 invis clickies (I also picked up some BTA ones with 3 charges from various quests) and pass them around to your new toons.

I t is FAR easier and faster than trying to sneak through or zerg through. Definitely sneak through a couple times for the 'woohoo factor' of doing it. But after that, just git er done.

Alabore
04-21-2011, 04:10 PM
I recall building my first pure rogue, an elf, around Stealthy Repo too.
Almost shelved her after U5, but before that she was fun and viable, and managed to get her to lvl 12.
It always amazed people how she could fight and never break stealth, and lead the kill count.

I used to give 0 kill Stealthy Repo tours on Khyber; I'd tell people to stay put at the entrance, and she'd sneak her way in.

I suspect they recently tweaked prophets' patrol patterns though; they've become more predictable - which made sneaking by a bit easier.

...

As they have mentioned, the real deal to run it at level is being able to manage dungeon alert.
You can deal with it by resorting to stealth, crowd control and selective killing.
You could pull the whole dungeon's worth of prophets on a tank, while the other chars pick off the shamans and warriors, to keep dungeon alert at green.

Personally, I love sneaking through; it's a welcome change of pace, and I like the thrill and challenge of NOT wanting to kill any of them.

:D

...

Oh, and don't forget invisibility potions.
They are quieter than spells or clickies.

:)

Matuse
04-21-2011, 11:18 PM
What I'm not seeing is how you folks, vets, long time community members are contributing to the discussion by ragging on me. At least my posts make a point. What's yours again? That you're all so uber? yay, have a cookie.

No, I do this quest my own way, not the uber-stealth way. I've tried it several times and it's never worked out. I get too impatient.

The point in "ragging" on you is that you're wrong, and I have an automatic disinclination to allow misinformation to be perpetuated to new players who might be listening to you. If everybody just allowed your wrongness to stand uncorrected, then you might be believed. It is important that this not happen.

Ttip
04-22-2011, 04:24 AM
My level 19 pure Barbarian tried it on normal (cannot open elite first time through solo and I wanted the favor) just walking through without swinging the ax and died shortly after the first lever from hold person/harried. Sad, but true.

Jump/Invis/run like the wind/rage for more HP, worked fine all the way through elite...lol. Even then it was more difficult than some at level quests, one swing of the ax could accidently kill 1 or 2 prophets...may try it with a bow to target specific non-prophs next time....

varusso
04-22-2011, 08:22 AM
FWIW .. long before I figured out the invisibility EZ mode, I used my lvl 4~5 rogue to stealth through this quest, all the way up to elite. The first rogue I ever made in DDO, BTW. It took a few tries to get it right, but it *IS* possible to stealth through there with an at-level rogue -- *IF* you do it the way intended. the point of this quest is to teach new players the mechanics of sneaking. Use the shadows to decrease chance of being spotted. Watch the mobs pathing back and forth, learn where they walk and how long it takes for them to path back. Use the conveniently places piles of crates, etc. to climb up out of site and wait until they path away again. When you have to flip a lever/open a door, run like hell and find a place to hide out of line of sight, wait for the fuzz to give up, start the process again.

You know, be a rogue.

Of course, this way takes FOREVER at lvl (the way a sneaky rogue WOULD be). Far simpler/quicker/easier just to grab 6 invis clickies. Two minutes, done. Do it again :D

I run this quest 8-10 times on elite, then hard, then norm for lots of low-lvl XP, with the bonus insidious cunning every time. Every toon.

Talon_Moonshadow
04-22-2011, 09:00 AM
I can stealth through this, usually at level. Usually with zero agro.

In less than five minutes. I think I can do it in about three minutes actually. :cool:

Can I quote myself? :p

Did it this morning with a Rgr8, on elite.

Zero agro. Five minute completion.
(lucked out and the last named guy spawned facing away from the lever.)

I'm sure I've done faster. I had to wait for a couple patrols to move so I could get by and pull levers safely. In the past, I've had a couple runs that required almost no waiting...



it is hard to do it at level with many toons. You need a max MS score, a good Dex, and probably at least a +3 MS item. (and no armor penalty) Even then, Elite might require a little extra for the named Shamans.

varusso
04-22-2011, 09:06 AM
Can I quote myself? :p

Did it this morning with a Rgr8, on elite.

Zero agro. Five minute completion.
(lucked out and the last named guy spawned facing away from the lever.)

I'm sure I've done faster. I had to wait for a couple patrols to move so I could get by and pull levers safely. In the past, I've had a couple runs that required almost no waiting...



it is hard to do it at level with many toons. You need a max MS score, a good Dex, and probably at least a +3 MS item. (and no armor penalty) Even then, Elite might require a little extra for the named Shamans.

Last i checked, Stealthy Repo was a lvl 2 base quest, which means lvl 4 on elite. At MOST, at level would be lvl 5. Lvl 8 is not at level. I can probably stealth through it hasted/invised and in sneak mode in a few mins with my lvl 20 wiz/rogue, too. Thats not at lvl either.

But it CAN be done with an at-lvl rogue. It just takes too long, once you have done it a few times for the flavor.

Talon_Moonshadow
04-22-2011, 10:21 AM
Last i checked, Stealthy Repo was a lvl 2 base quest, which means lvl 4 on elite. At MOST, at level would be lvl 5. Lvl 8 is not at level. I can probably stealth through it hasted/invised and in sneak mode in a few mins with my lvl 20 wiz/rogue, too. Thats not at lvl either.

But it CAN be done with an at-lvl rogue. It just takes too long, once you have done it a few times for the flavor.

I actually meant that last post just to show how long it takes.

But actually at lvl is almost irrelevant.

The only difference between a lvl 1 rog and a lvl 20 for sneaking through this quest with zero agro, is the MS score. (and min lvl of gear)

All you need is a MS score higher than the Listen Score of the Named Shamans.
(maybe 13ish)(I'll see if I can find the post from Mr.Cow that has the exact numbers)

You can acquire this score in many ways. Skill rank, Dex, MS item, Heroism Pot, Cat;s grace Potion. Enhancements, Skill boosts. Taking off your armor.


A lvl 2 Rog With a 14 Dex would have a 7 MS score.
+3 item = 10
Potion of Heroism = 12
Potion of cat's Grace = 14
If he has enhancemnts to MS he can get even higher.
(I have several no min lvl +5 items)

A lvl 2 Ftr is worse off.
And so many people dump Dex completely.

I actually do not lke this quest from a stealth pont of view.

it is a horrible quest to learn stealth in.
It is not really a quest to practice stealth, as much as it is a quest that tries (and fails) to force you to use stealth to complete it.

Garrison's is a much better quest to practice steath in IMO.

SR is horribly unforgiving, of even the tinniest mistake.

But it's not the level of the char that matters, it is the MS score. (and to a lesser degree Hide score)

Anyway, I was just trying to point out how quickly it can be done. Since so many people seem to think it takes a long time to sneak through it. Which is not true. (with practice)

Draccus
04-22-2011, 12:44 PM
SR is horribly unforgiving, of even the tinniest mistake.



Stealth, in generall, is horribly unforgiving of even the tinniest mistake.

That's why Invis and haste are so ridiculously superior than an ability that takes not one, but TWO skills to be effective. Yet another major flaw in DDO.

The devs are perfectly fine having groups of players completely and safely bypass tons of content by invis-running through Epic VoN1, Epic Into the Deep, Epic Claw, Epic Chrono, Epic Big Top etc. But God forbid someone actually use some skills and player talent to stealth passed something.

Talon_Moonshadow
04-22-2011, 01:18 PM
Stealth, in generall, is horribly unforgiving of even the tinniest mistake.

That's why Invis and haste are so ridiculously superior than an ability that takes not one, but TWO skills to be effective. Yet another major flaw in DDO.

The devs are perfectly fine having groups of players completely and safely bypass tons of content by invis-running through Epic VoN1, Epic Into the Deep, Epic Claw, Epic Chrono, Epic Big Top etc. But God forbid someone actually use some skills and player talent to stealth passed something.

I agree.
But I don't know what the answer is. How should they change it?

Making Invisibility useless is certainly not the answer.

Making it possible to sneak through every dungeon without risk is not the answer either.

I do think that a few basic changes would help a lot.
Stop the stupid sonar thing they do to find us.....find another method.
There should be a way to lose agro. (other than Charms and distance)
Nothing should knock you out of sneak mode IMO. Especially if it does not cause damage. (even then, maybe give a cincentration check)
Because of stupid dungeon design, they should allow us to Jump in sneak mode.


But these are all minor, and will not make stealth any more useful to the invis and run by it crowd.

And nerfing Invis is not the answer.
They will run by it anyway, actually.

But I am for the occasional smart monster who has a means of protecting their lairs from Invised intruders.
Especially on certain Epic quests that are being abused.
(perhaps more monste casters should have See Invis or True Seeing, and have some kind o triger for them to cast it. It shouldn't be permanently on, all of the time. But if they have reason to suspect that a bunch of intruders are running past them invisible, then they should cast the spells.)
(I don't want to see a blanket nerf though....these are horrible. A specific change to certain parts of some dungeons would be much better IMO.)

Ranger-Lord
04-22-2011, 03:58 PM
The only really disagreeable thing is when you've killed an enemy in the shadows, you go back into stealth, find a hiding spot well out of any kobold's reasonable detection range... yet another kobold randomly runs out of nowhere and somehow knows exactly where you are.

It's like killing a kobold temporarily expands every other kobold's detection range a thousand fold or something. It's weird.

Talon_Moonshadow
04-22-2011, 06:17 PM
Just did SR on Normal with a lvl 1(TR) Rog. Hide/MS of 12. 4 ranks, 16 dex adds +3, and I had no min lvl bta +5 cloak and boots. Took off armor.

5 minute completion.

Agroed one Prophet sentry at end, because I was too impatient to wait till I was sure I'd be safe.

But even with his agro, I finished, and he never got near enough to me for an attack roll. He did wake other Kobolds, but they did not agro on me. I climbed up a ladder to finish out.

I'd say that was even below lvl, since it is a lvl 2 quest. Granted tweak gear, stealthy build, with 34 build points....and lots of practice.

Just saying...it's doable at lvl.
But I understand a beginner could not do this.

learst
04-22-2011, 06:35 PM
I did it.

Turned on my stealth while approaching the first door as advised... it worked. Let some of the prophets stalk me towards the end, dealing me -1 damage here and there... focused on taking out the Shamans when they all started attacking at once (those guys are especially dangerous if left unchecked).

"You wait till I steal your little trinket, because then your asses are mine," I said to the prophets. And true to my words, I cut them down the instant I grabbed the crystal. What a sense of satisfaction.

Thanks for all the help, guys, it would've taken me a very long time to figure this out if not for you.

Congratulations! It's always nice to hear a new player persevere and succeed.

Alabore
04-22-2011, 07:48 PM
Because of stupid dungeon design, they should allow us to Jump in sneak mode.


While you can't stealth-jump, there is a workaround to that.
Requires some twitch ability and practice to pull if off.

Reach the platform you want to vault, make sure no one can spot you.
Snap out of stealth, jump, hit sneak button mid-jump, if you got your timing right you'll land in-stealth and foes won't be any wiser to your presence.

Make sure you don't move around while preparing for your jump; there is a small safe window when you snap out and back into stealth mode.
If you're out of sight, foes can't usually hear you if you're motionless, even out of stealth.
This is especially important when flipping switches and levers; as long as no one can see you, they won't *usually* hear you.

Narwe
04-22-2011, 09:38 PM
Just did elite at level 2 as 1monk/1ranger. Had 18 move silent but after was done I tested on some sleeping kobalds and move silent 16 was enough. 0 kills, no invis, just sneaking. This has been a favorite for a long time. By the way, it is stealthy repossession, not grab and go! And no, this build was not tailored for just this quest, after completion and was clearing 25 kobalds, strength was 20. Had a min level 2 cloak of move silent +5 and used a stance and +2 dex gloves while sneaking.

This is a great quest for learning how to stealth as was said before. Never take a non-stealthed step in hearing distance of anything. Stand to the side of doors, open and immediately re-stealth. The last lever should be opened when the two roving guards have their backs to you, then re-stealth and take their paste-gem.

Well done Drac, as usual

Update: fyi to stealth the witch doctors requires a MS 18 so beware. You can still pull the lever at the end if Wazul is there as he isn't looking in that direction

Raiar
04-25-2011, 10:14 AM
Just saying...it's doable at lvl.
But I understand a beginner could not do this.
When a quest provides both a method for newcomers to complete without too much frustration and also a challenging method to interest experienced players looking for a more satisfying achievement, that constitutes a well-designed quest in my book. (My own pattern for this one was a combination stealth through the first part and mad dash through the later part. It's a lot of fun. When I make a pure rogue alt, though, I'll try stealth all the way through. :))

Starjumper327
04-27-2011, 10:54 PM
Hey. I'm a level 2 ranger with trained Hide and Stealth walking.

But I'm having real trouble with this quest. Whenever I open the first door, there's a prophet standing right outside it. No matter what I do, he always sees me, and I can't seem to lose him.

I've read people say they've went through this dungeon without killing a single prophet, but I don't know how they could have done that.

Any help is appreciated.

Btw, I do have Sprint. But for that first prophet I encounter, there's only one empty room I can sprint to (the entrance room), and that is hardly large enough to lose him that way. I could only sprint into the rooms further down the dungeon, and that'd alert everyone to my presence, obviously.

What I do is just run the whole dungeon, grab the Eye, and run to the entrance (or die). You'll get a red dungeon alert, but I don't think it matters.

Ralmeth
04-27-2011, 11:22 PM
I think this is a also a great quest to practice getting good at swinging at your exact intended target...I've stealthed through this quest (it is cool to accomplish this), but I found it's much faster to just run until I hit a few levers, and then stop and clear out any non-prophets with me (generally once green alert pops up). You just fight S&B style, select your target and go one swing at a time until all non-prophets are dead. It takes some practice, but IMHO everyone who melees should use this quest to practice this technique for when it really matters later on (ex. Sleeping Dust...which I can solo on my Pally with no problem because of the practice I put into Stealthy Repo).