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View Full Version : Does Human Improved Recovery affect Lay on Hands?



mccloak
04-20-2011, 03:02 AM
Hi,

my question is simple as you can read in topic title.

I have a paladin on level 6, Charisma modifier +3, and when I had some enhancements (I dont know which exactly), Lay on Hands healed allies for 48 hp, and myself for 58 - so I assume that I had Human Improved Recovery II (48 * 1.2 = 57.6). I had resseted enhancements recently because I used to took them thoughtlessly and I planned build using Character Planner, and according to my plan I took Human Improved Recovery I - but now Lay on Hands heals myself only for 48 hp, the same as it heals others - I think it isnt correct, it is?

Thanks for reply

karl_k0ch
04-20-2011, 03:05 AM
If I remember my own experience on my pally correctly, the amount of damage healed by LoH is subject to Healing amp.

TheDearLeader
04-20-2011, 03:13 AM
As long as you are not Warforged, Healing Amp effects your Lay on Hands. Human Improved Recovery is included in this.

Perhaps those people had 10% Healing Amp from some source, such as Ship?

Matuse
04-20-2011, 05:43 AM
Healing Amp affects all types of healing, from spells to potions to wands to LoH.

And LoH has hit Warforged at full strength since the game was in beta. I don't see why healing amp on a robot would be any different than on a fleshie.

Missing_Minds
04-20-2011, 06:18 AM
As long as you are not Warforged, Healing Amp effects your Lay on Hands. Human Improved Recovery is included in this.

Perhaps those people had 10% Healing Amp from some source, such as Ship?

It doesn't matter the race, TDL. Healing amp effects any individual.
LoH is effected only by healing amp, "potency" effects do not work on it.

phalaeo
04-20-2011, 06:22 AM
Affirmed it does work with Human Imp. Recovery. My Cleric/Pally/Fighter has two tiers, plus 10/20% on items and it hits her for ~220.

mccloak
04-21-2011, 05:07 AM
So, why it isnt working for me now? A bug? I have human paladin, not warforged.

TheDearLeader
04-21-2011, 05:10 AM
It doesn't matter the race, TDL. Healing amp effects any individual.
LoH is effected only by healing amp, "potency" effects do not work on it.

Actually bro, let me help you get your knowledge on.

When you are a WF Paladin, and you hit yourself with a Lay on Hands, it is considered a "Repair" effect. Why do this? So they can still benefit from Lay on Hands during Bladesworn Transformation, and also so their LoH don't suck at low levels.

So, no, Healing Amp will not effect Lay On Hands when the target entity is a Warforged.


So, why it isnt working for me now? A bug? I have human paladin, not warforged.

Edit :

Step 1: Go to your "Enhancments" Page. Absolutely positively confirm that you have Human Improved Recovery I. I know this seems silly, but sometimes we think we've selected something, and didn't. Happens to all of us.
Step 2: /death to your Res Location
Step 3: Log Out, Close Client, Reopen Client and Log Back in.
Step 4: After allowing Character to fully load, check your Charisma score (confirm the +3 Modifier, at this particular moment).
Step 5: Hit yourself with a Lay On Hands, check result.

Edit 2 :

I just rolled a Vet Level 4 Paladin, checked LoH before and after selecting Human Improved Recovery I Enhancement - Numbers were appropriate. I cannot replicate your issue. As such, I suggest taking the steps I listed above to confirm there really is an issue.

Matuse
04-21-2011, 07:43 AM
When you are a WF Paladin, and you hit yourself with a Lay on Hands, it is considered a "Repair" effect. Why do this? So they can still benefit from Lay on Hands during Bladesworn Transformation, and also so their LoH don't suck at low levels.

No. This is not a repair effect. It is a positive energy effect like the bound korthos potions that works equally well on fleshies and robots. Whether a human or a warforged uses LoH, and whether the target is a human or a warforged, the result is identical.

Or do you believe that a WF using LoH on a fleshie is also doing a repair effect?

[quote]So, no, Healing Amp will not effect Lay On Hands when the target entity is a Warforged.

Yea, it really will.

TheDearLeader
04-21-2011, 03:56 PM
No. This is not a repair effect. It is a positive energy effect like the bound korthos potions that works equally well on fleshies and robots. Whether a human or a warforged uses LoH, and whether the target is a human or a warforged, the result is identical.

Or do you believe that a WF using LoH on a fleshie is also doing a repair effect?

Yea, it really will.

Video Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBDHsaLhvUs).

Let me exprain prease what happens in this video.

1. Level 20 Human Paladin LoHs a WF with no Healing Amp. 300 Points.
2. Level 20 Human Paladin LoHs a WF with 10% Ship Healing Amp. 300 Points.
3. Level 4 WF Paladin LoHs self with no Healing Amp. 28 Points.
4. Level 4 WF Paladin LoHs self with 10% Ship Healing Amp. 28 Points.
5. Level 20 Human Paladin LoHs the Level 4 WF Paladin with no Healing Amp. 330 Points.
6. Level 20 Human Paladin LoHs the Level 4 WF Paladin with 10% Ship Healing Amp. 330 Points.
7. Level 4 WF Paladin hits Level 20 Human Paladin with LoH, Human Paladin has multiple sources of Healing Amp. 36 Points.

Notice that the Icon above a WF's head when *they* are LoH-ed is different than a Human - it is the same "Repair" icon, as used by Reconstruct.
Also note that the combat log reads differently, namely that it says:
You were healed by [NAME]'s lay on hands - warforged by ~ points of damage.

Convincing enough? From these things, we can conclude what I've already said to be true, which is:
When a WF is hit by Lay on Hands, it is a "Repair" effect, not affected beneficially or detrimentally by Healing Amplication.

Matuse
04-22-2011, 09:33 AM
Hmm, learn something every day. Strange that they would code it like that. It doesn't pre-date the cure-everybody potions, since you got several of those from Euphonia's challenge when the game first came out.

Healing Amp SHOULD work on LoH, but it doesn't.

TheDearLeader
04-22-2011, 09:54 AM
Hmm, learn something every day. Strange that they would code it like that. It doesn't pre-date the cure-everybody potions, since you got several of those from Euphonia's challenge when the game first came out.

Healing Amp SHOULD work on LoH, but it doesn't.

I still think it has something to do with the Bladesworn Transformation blocking "Healing" rather than "Repairing" effects, even if things such as the starter potions work the same for Human and WF. However, I don't have a WF Paladin of appropriate level to test to see whether or not the starter potions work, so... /shrug.

OP, still waiting to hear back from you bud - any fix to your problem?

krud
04-22-2011, 10:08 AM
Video Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBDHsaLhvUs).

Let me exprain prease what happens in this video.

1. Level 20 Human Paladin LoHs a WF with no Healing Amp. 300 Points.
2. Level 20 Human Paladin LoHs a WF with 10% Ship Healing Amp. 300 Points.
3. Level 4 WF Paladin LoHs self with no Healing Amp. 28 Points.
4. Level 4 WF Paladin LoHs self with 10% Ship Healing Amp. 28 Points.
5. Level 20 Human Paladin LoHs the Level 4 WF Paladin with no Healing Amp. 330 Points.
6. Level 20 Human Paladin LoHs the Level 4 WF Paladin with 10% Ship Healing Amp. 330 Points.
7. Level 4 WF Paladin hits Level 20 Human Paladin with LoH, Human Paladin has multiple sources of Healing Amp. 36 Points.

Notice that the Icon above a WF's head when *they* are LoH-ed is different than a Human - it is the same "Repair" icon, as used by Reconstruct.
Also note that the combat log reads differently, namely that it says:
You were healed by [NAME]'s lay on hands - warforged by ~ points of damage.

Convincing enough? From these things, we can conclude what I've already said to be true, which is:
When a WF is hit by Lay on Hands, it is a "Repair" effect, not affected beneficially or detrimentally by Healing Amplication.
You need to include the appropriate controls in that experiment. One might conclude that the ship buff is borked for WF. Find a comparable fleshie and see what you get with and without the ship buff. Also test it with other sources of healing amp on both WF and fleshie.

TheDearLeader
04-22-2011, 10:14 AM
You need to include the appropriate controls in that experiment. One might conclude that the ship buff is borked for WF. Find a comparable fleshie and see what you get with and without the ship buff. Also test it with other sources of healing amp on both WF and fleshie.

Video link is two posts down.

Shade
04-22-2011, 10:29 AM
Hmm, learn something every day. Strange that they would code it like that. It doesn't pre-date the cure-everybody potions, since you got several of those from Euphonia's challenge when the game first came out.

Healing Amp SHOULD work on LoH, but it doesn't.

Actually it does pre-date that.

And it's not that strange considering the time.

At release, healing amp did not exist.
Warforged took a 50% penalty on everything. The only increases to that were HF enhancements.

So to make paladin a good choice for WF, they made it consider repair. Whenever used on them, be it from their own, or another paladin usingit on them, it detects the race its being used on.

Some random history:
It does actually predate the heal-everything potions. Euphonia's challenge and other starter potions, were cure light wounds. They worked on warforged as any healing does, at 50%. Wasn't until much later they were changed into "heal light" to give WF an equal amount of lowbie healing.

Also bladesworn transformation didnt exist in the original release either, so its not the reason for this.

They could code it like:
If WF positive energy amp = >100%, then effect = repair
if WF positive energy amp =<100%, then effect = positive energy

TheDearLeader
04-22-2011, 10:35 AM
Shade's Post

Good to know. As the join date implies, I was definitely not around for this sort of thing, so as far as things such as *reason* go, speculation is as far as I could get. I just know the reality of today.

Still, it does tie in well with Bladesworn, yes? If they changed it, I'd also be worried they'd break that in the process.


You need to include the appropriate controls in that experiment. One might conclude that the ship buff is borked for WF. Find a comparable fleshie and see what you get with and without the ship buff. Also test it with other sources of healing amp on both WF and fleshie.

Uploaded, Fully Processed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLZkAHSZImM)

1. Human Paladin w/o Ship Buff, LoH, then w/Ship Buff, LoH. Different Values.
2. WF w/Levik's Bracers off, 300. w/Levik's Bracers on, 300.

Missing_Minds
04-22-2011, 11:38 AM
Uploaded, Fully Processed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLZkAHSZImM)

1. Human Paladin w/o Ship Buff, LoH, then w/Ship Buff, LoH. Different Values.
2. WF w/Levik's Bracers off, 300. w/Levik's Bracers on, 300.

Well... that seems to prove what I thought as wrong. Good to know. Thanks.

But it makes me wonder about the odder cases for healing enhancements. Namely the Finger Necklace and Docent of blood. I don't expect you to check it out unless you want to though, TDL.

mournbladereigns
04-22-2011, 12:38 PM
Yes, Healing AMP acts multiplier to incoming healing effects, including Lay On Hands.

Additionally different sources of healing amp stack multiplicatively. So if you have 10% healing amp from say Hunter of the Dead PrE, and 30% human healing amp. you would get 1.1*1.3=1.43. 143% healing amp, rather the 1.4. This is what solar phoenix builds take advantage. With items and class/racial Healing amp enhancements, you can achive very high healing amp. up tor 400+%


On the same subject, Devotion/Potency effects apply a multiplier to outgoing healing spell. Devotion IV provides 40% amp on outgoing healing, including Lay on Hands. SO if you cast a cure spell for 20, it would do 28 pts of healing 'damage (20*1.4).

If applied to the target with 143% heal amp above, it would hit for 40 pts of healing dmg (28*1.43).

mournbladereigns
04-22-2011, 12:51 PM
Well... that seems to prove what I thought as wrong. Good to know. Thanks.

But it makes me wonder about the odder cases for healing enhancements. Namely the Finger Necklace and Docent of blood. I don't expect you to check it out unless you want to though, TDL.

I remember in some of the solar phoenix threads saying you have to equip finger necklace as the last piece of your healing amp gear for its effect to apply.

TheDearLeader
04-22-2011, 01:21 PM
I remember in some of the solar phoenix threads saying you have to equip finger necklace as the last piece of your healing amp gear for its effect to apply.

First piece, in my experience. My Paladin dabbles with Healing Amp, to include that necklace.

mournbladereigns
04-22-2011, 01:36 PM
First piece, in my experience. My Paladin dabbles with Healing Amp, to include that necklace.

Ahh, I probably remembered incorrectly, but yeah, the order in which it is equipped relative to your other healing amnp gear determines whether or not it is applied.


Ahh yeah, here is post stating that... http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2844168&postcount=14

my bad.

Missing_Minds
04-22-2011, 01:37 PM
First piece, in my experience. My Paladin dabbles with Healing Amp, to include that necklace.

Agreed. What I remember from those math numbered threads was that finger necklace was first.