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Tolero
04-07-2011, 11:04 AM
Guten Tag! Sie können feststellen, dass Ich Heute mehr Änderungen und Aktualisierungen in den foren machen werde ... mehr deutschsprachige Mitteilungen; Wichtige Themen oben festgehalten; mehr deutschsprachige Foren....

und sogar einige neue Forumsangestellte! (sie sprechen besser Deutsch als ich, doch Ich werde Sie ihnen später vorstellen.)

Vielen Dank für ihre Geduld!

Good afternoon! You may notice today that I'm making more changes and updates around the forums... more announcements in german (i.e. translated); more thread stickies; more german subforums...

and even some new forum staff! (they speak better German than me, but I'll introduce them later).

Thanks for your patience everyone!

SisAmethyst
04-07-2011, 01:25 PM
Its nice that you still keep on trying and I can surely see some progress! Keep up the good work!

only some minor changes:


Guten Tag! Sie können feststellen, dass ich ______ heute mehr Änderungen und Aktualisierungen in den Foren machen werde ... mehr deutschsprachiges Mitteilungen; Wichtige Themen oben festgehalten; mehr deutschsprachiges Foren....

und sogar einige neue Angestellte fürs Forum°! (Sie sprechen besser Deutsch ______ als mich, doch Ich werde Sie° ihnen später vorstellen.)

Vielen Dank für ihre Geduld!

_ move
_ remove/change
° or the genetiv 'Angestellte des Forums' or written as 'Forumsangestellte' (without the 'des' as a combined word)
° 'Sie' reflects the new forum staff

Tolero
04-07-2011, 02:04 PM
_ move
_ remove/change
° or the genetiv 'Angestellte des Forums' or written as 'Forumsangestellte' (without the 'des' as a combined word)
° 'Sie' reflects the new forum staff

Ooooh diese Weg ist sehr hilfreich! Ich habe immer noch Schwierigkeiten mit der Wortstellung. Vielen Dank!


or the genetiv 'Angestellte des Forums' or written as 'Forumsangestellte' (without the 'des' as a combined word)

(yeah I should have remembered the genetiv... is it a style difference or is it more/less "natural" to use the genetiv in such a way?)


'Sie' reflects the new forum staff

(ah HA! I knew I should have kept that, should have gone with my instincts - in my first version I had it in but then took it out because I wasn't sure if I should be using sie or ihnen or if it was redundant to include it in the first place, and my translation software sucks at distinguishing proper cases when I reverse engineer it.)

Tolero
04-07-2011, 02:28 PM
(sorry for the english but this is too complex a question for my meager grammar skills heh...

SisAmethyst's correction reminded me that it's probably a good time for me to ask about verb order... my lessons often tell me that primary verbs go in the "second position" and the rest "pile up at the end". But I've not yet learned what the pattern is for those that come at the end... do you put the verbs closest to the clause they support? Further away? Some other pattern I haven't yet identified? Example using english word order color coded - not the best example but you get the idea:

In english word order:
If I am asking a really complex question to learn about word order where do all the words that support go?
How I kind of think it goes afterwards?
If I ask a really complex question about word order to learn, where go all the words (that are) supporting?

This deep grammar discussion is brought to you in part by the Plane of Daanvi, the Perfect Order :D)

SisAmethyst
04-07-2011, 03:35 PM
The 'Genetiv' is a common usecase in German, however it is more and more displaced by the - often more easy to use - form of the 'Dativ' (There is a book 'Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod' which explains some of those linguistic things in a nice readable novel). the linguistic typology of Subject-Object-Verb is in German used in subordinate clause, while you usually use Subject-Verb-Object. In Questions you often use Verb–Subjekt–Objekt.


(sorry for the english but this is too complex a question for my meager grammar skills heh...

SisAmethyst's correction reminded me that it's probably a good time for me to ask about verb order... my lessons often tell me that primary verbs go in the "second position" and the rest "pile up at the end". But I've not yet learned what the pattern is for those that come at the end... do you put the verbs closest to the clause they support? Further away? Some other pattern I haven't yet identified? Example using english word order color coded - not the best example but you get the idea:

In english word order:
If I am asking a really complex question to learn about word order where do all the words that support go?
How I kind of think it goes afterwards?
If I ask a really complex question about word order to learn, where go all the words (that are) supporting?

This deep grammar discussion is brought to you in part by the Plane of Daanvi, the Perfect Order :D)

hehe ... well, as long as I not have to switch as well to French now I will try to explain/translate that with the colors used. This is indeed a complex sentence and you may have more then one possible translation for this. The tricky part is already how to translate 'supporting words' as 'support' could be an elemental part 'tragend'='carrying' or only secondary 'helfend'='auxiliary'. This has indeed already an impact on the sense. Which is why I usually prefer using concise sentences for translations.

In english word order:
If I am asking a really complex question to learn about word order where do all the words that support go?

would be

In deutscher Satzstellung:
Wenn ich eine sehr komplexe Frage stelle°, um etwas über Satzstellung° zu lernen°, wohin mit all den Wörtern, die den Satz unterstützen?

° So while you 'are asking' the 'are' change to 'do' in German. Doing would be translated with 'tuen/tun', but as like you ride a bike and not walk it there are as well those things in German. So in fact you do not say 'Fragen tun' but rather 'Fragen stellen'.
° You could use here the 1:1 translation to 'Wortstellung', however more often the word 'Satzstellung' is used as the basis of it is the place of a word in the phrase, and therefore the phrase the dominant part.
° 'um' goes very often in combination with 'zu' as the single 'um' may be as well used as a directional prefix like 'um~denken' (change thought), 'um~laden von A nach B' (move something from A to B)
° The 'do go' of the where isn't needed as it is unspecified and therefore can be absorbed by the 'where'. It would have been different if you had written 'where do I have to write...'

You may want to take a look as well at Topologische Satzfelder (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Satzfelder-Topologisch-Fritzenschaft.png)

In short it say you may have a pre-field (some additional prefixes, words of courtesy) ; left-field (verb or conjunction like 'although') ; main-field (subject and object) ; right-field (adverb) ; post-field (optional subordinate phrase) in a German sentence.

PS: Hopefully we not open now a gate to Daanvi or we may get visited by some Inevitable, especially if I made somewhere a typo :D

Sethvir
04-07-2011, 04:13 PM
http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa032700a.htm

I might suggest to take also a look at german tempi:

* Präsens
* Perfekt
* Futur I
* Futur II
* Präteritum
* Plusquamperfekt
* Doppeltes Perfekt (double perfect)

which have also influence on word order for verbs.

Hindaek
04-07-2011, 04:40 PM
Guten Tag, wie Ihr [Sie] heute feststellen könnt [können], ändere und aktualisiere ich die Foren öfter... mehr Ankündigungen auf Deutsch (d.h. übersetzte) mehr angeheftete Beiträge; mehr deutsche Unterforen...

Und sogar ein paar neue Mitarbeiter für die Foren! (Die besser Deutsch sprechen als ich, aber die werde ich euch [Ihnen] später vorstellen)






Just a try to translate the meaning as well as possible. I would personally suggest to use the informal DU in this Forum because it's usual on such Forums to use the informal form of address. But I added the Sie-form in [] just to show how it would look like in this case.
I hope it was helpful ... and yes I know my English isn't good :D

Tolero
04-08-2011, 10:00 AM
..."Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod"

Ich habe das gehört! Der Spruch ist humorvoll XD (Es macht schon Dativ hehehe)

Tolero
04-08-2011, 10:08 AM
Guten Tag, wie Ihr [Sie] heute feststellen könnt [können], ändere und aktualisiere ich die Foren öfter... mehr Ankündigungen auf Deutsch (d.h. übersetzte) mehr angeheftete Beiträge; mehr deutsche Unterforen...

Und sogar ein paar neue Mitarbeiter für die Foren! (Die besser Deutsch sprechen als ich, aber die werde ich euch [Ihnen] später vorstellen)

Just a try to translate the meaning as well as possible. I would personally suggest to use the informal DU in this Forum because it's usual on such Forums to use the informal form of address. But I added the Sie-form in [] just to show how it would look like in this case.
I hope it was helpful ... and yes I know my English isn't good :D

Vielen Spieleren haben dass gesagt ... Ich habe immer noch Angst vor durch Fehler man beleidigend :o

karl_k0ch
04-08-2011, 11:00 AM
Grüße! Ich spreche nur ein bisschen Deutsch,
doch ist es schon ok für dich, meine Grammatik zu korrigieren.

SCNR. :)

The "doch" is the start of an dependent clause. In order to separate is from the main clause, a comma has to be used.

Grammatik has the feminine grammatical gender ("die Grammatik"), which is why it is "meine Grammatik". (Just like "meine Mutter"). "mein" is used for nouns which have male or neutral gender.

In, eg, "It is OK for you to be here" you use to and the infinitive of the verb (be, as opposed to are, am or is.). In german, you do the same - you "zu" and the infinitive of the verb. This grammatical construction is called Infinitivgruppe.

You may (but you don't need to) add a comma in front of the whole Infinitivgruppe (this includes not only the zu + verb, but also other words belonging to this group) in order to enhance the readbility: "Es ist OK, mich zu korrigieren"


Vielen Spieleren haben dass gesagt ... Ich habe immer noch Angst vor durch Fehler man beleidigend :o

You know what - just make a Poll. Just ask in the german forum which way of adressing is preferred, Du or Sie. It will, however, be tricky to ask the question "Which way do you want to be adressed?" without picking one of the two forms.