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View Full Version : Take a Step Back, Monsters Come to You



Paleus
04-05-2011, 04:55 PM
Hey all, this is just my little tip of the day to newer players in general, take it for what you will. When you see a large group of mobs, your first instinct is to probably rush in towards them swinging away. There are a couple reasons this might not serve you best.

First, you might get surrounded. Nothing is worse than being tripped in the middle of a group of mobs gang-stomping your face in. So try to keep the majority of mobs in one arc, in front of you, rather than all around you. Whats worse, odds are pretty good that the three mobs you saw from a distance actually have about another 4 buddies sneaking around the flanks that you didn't see who will promptly surround you when you obliviously run at the middle of their formation.

Second, you may alert more monsters to your presence than you need to. Sometimes a few monsters will see you and start chasing you down. If you let them come to you then their ten buddies who haven't see you will stand around oblivious to the sounds of you murdering the bejebus out of their friends. However, if you chase after them, their ten buddies might see you and then suddenly you're fighting 12 enemies at once instead of 2. I'm no math-magician but I think fighting 2 at a time is better than 12.

So remember, when you see monsters, you might be better served by taking a step back rather than rushing in headlong. If you let them come to you, then you fight on your terms, if you run towards them, then you fight on their terms.


*This announcement was paid for by the Campaign of "Yes I know you people with Join Dates of 2006 or so can fight over 9000 mobs at once with one hand tied behind your back this wasn't directed at you, and there are of course caveats like take out the caster first and what not this is just a general piece of advice," void where prohibited, sales tax may apply in California.

FlyingTurtle
04-06-2011, 10:23 AM
The technical term for this is "body pulling".

Other forms of pulling:
Bluff pull
Pewpew pull

Also see

Kiting

FuzzyDuck81
04-06-2011, 10:39 AM
a pretty obvious one, but sometimes the most obvious ones are the ones people miss & it bears repeating. :)

As an advanced application of the "tactical backstep" try to make them come through a doorway which will force them to face you in smaller numbers still, then have someone block the doorway (doesnt have to be a tank, they generally wont attack the blocker if the person with the aggro is further behind) & attack them from safety behind your impromptu wall.

Finally, while applying the tactical backstep.. DO NOT charge backwards into an area you HAVENT YET BEEN - while i have no objection to ranged characters, kiting away from the rest of your party is generally a very bad tactic (exceptions can be made for evasive players that draw casters/AoE'ers/bosses away while the party deals with other threats) & that particular occurrence of it is grounds for the party to stop, point & laugh while said kiter reveals their druidic shapechanging ability - though the only one the devs have currently implemented is the ability to transform into a soulstone

Vikkus
04-06-2011, 10:56 AM
Very good advice! Also if you are facing spellcasters use 'line of sight' to avoid their spells. Move around a corner and force them to move up to see you to cast.

whitehawk74
04-06-2011, 11:06 AM
Pulling enemies towards you also has another advantage. If you are standing still and attacking you don't take a -4 'to hit' reduction.
The Spring Attack (http://ddowiki.com/page/Spring_Attack) Feat allows you to run and swing without penalty.

Also, pulling is a great way to get monsters to stomp their way through traps. Tactics - use the environment as a weapon.

Spoonwelder
04-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Another benefit of this plan - is that you don't get the minus on your tohit for moving while the mobs will. If you do a steady 3swing - step back - 3 swing - most of your attacks will not get a movemement penalty while the mobs invariably swirl around trying to get to you and are all getting the tohit penalty for movement.

Bargol
04-06-2011, 12:02 PM
Another part of this is if the wizard or bard has used web, facinate, hypno, etc. to completely lock down a group of mobs.....sorcs do not come in and drop a fireball, melee's watch the hits from that greataxe waking up the mobs, clerics was the blade barrier really needed this encounter?

There is nothing that makes an encounter go from as easy as pie to 12 angry mobs triping and killing party members faster then this.

jkm
04-06-2011, 12:22 PM
This is a highly useful tactic in situations where 3 to 4 free swings will still put you in a precarious tactical position. it is especially useful against tripping mobs such as wolves, worgs, and hobs with pikes. it allows you to avoid the front only trip attack by constantly staying on their flanks (which can be difficult in a pack of mobs).

in general, rushing mobs is always more advantageous because of the free swings generated during AI activation. this can range from 1 to 12 depending on the spot/listen skill of the mob and its immediate decision after noticing you. for example, sometimes the mob will go into "search" mode and just wander around while you beat on him before he switches into attack mode.

steelblueskies
04-06-2011, 01:31 PM
This is a highly useful tactic in situations where 3 to 4 free swings will still put you in a precarious tactical position. it is especially useful against tripping mobs such as wolves, worgs, and hobs with pikes. it allows you to avoid the front only trip attack by constantly staying on their flanks (which can be difficult in a pack of mobs).

in general, rushing mobs is always more advantageous because of the free swings generated during AI activation. this can range from 1 to 12 depending on the spot/listen skill of the mob and its immediate decision after noticing you. for example, sometimes the mob will go into "search" mode and just wander around while you beat on him before he switches into attack mode.

false, by running in the same direction the mobs are to reach you, while facing them and swinging, you gain the ability with most of them , to score glancing and regular blows while the will only attack when they stop moving, thus freeing you from reciprocation unless you move slower than they do. go ahead and practice with a lowbie wielding a greataxe, on the dog packs in bringing the light, the mobs get hung up on the leader of the pack, and may occasionally trade places while chasing you in a circle, but will, when executed properly, never get an attack off, and all slowly die. works all over the place. even works for a wizard wielding that greataxe with 8 str and no proficiency(and thus a -4 or worse attack bonus.)-it just takes longer to get hits versus misses.
free damage that is sustainable would always be superior to free damage that leaves you vulnerable.

for nastier melee foes like the redname ogre at the end of new ringleader, just run away when he rages until it wears off, then resume tactic until next stop/rage.

now ranged attackers ad casters on the other hand.. should be dealt with in accordance to already outlined tactics for pulling and controlling.

FlyingTurtle
04-07-2011, 10:34 AM
Also.

"Turreted monsters".

Turreted monsters include ranged mobs like some hobgob archers and skelly archers, and some spellcasters (whether they are turreted seems to depend on the AI setting specific to that dungeon encounter, not the mob itself - although I've found that skelly archers are ALWAYS turreted, maybe because they have no melee weapons). Turreted enemies will just stand there and pewpew on the one who's got their aggro no matter how far away they are, and will never move towards their target to get a clean shot. What this means is that, in a group of turreted enemies and mobiles, you can pull the mobiles away from the turrets and kill them separately without ever getting exposed to the pewpew and powpow.

Also, little known fact: turreted monsters do not contribute to Dungeon Alert. So you can kill the mobiles, and then run past the turrets while they're cemented into place by their own AI.