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Feithlin
03-30-2011, 11:47 PM
When someone uses a TH weapon, he gets twice the benefit of PA: +10 to damage.
Making Combat Expertise give +10 AC instead of +5 AC when wielding a shield would make sense and give a real reason to wield a shield, now that blocking DR will be very situational at best.

grodon9999
03-30-2011, 11:53 PM
/signed. It makes sense. Makes up for the AC lost by not blocking.

Angelus_dead
03-31-2011, 12:03 AM
When someone uses a TH weapon, he gets twice the benefit of PA: +10 to damage.
Making Combat Expertise give +10 AC instead of +5 AC
S&B should be a reasonable choice regardless of if you're using CE.
CE should be a reasonable choice regardless of if you're using a shield.

The benefits of those two factors should be useful independent of each other. Making them reliant on one another wouldn't help. In general the goal could be accomplished by one of several ways to make AC valuable even if the monster can hit on a 2.

(If it were a good idea to give CE+Shield another +5 AC, then may as well just add +5 AC to all shields instead)

Feithlin
03-31-2011, 03:12 AM
S&B should be a reasonable choice regardless of if you're using CE.
CE should be a reasonable choice regardless of if you're using a shield.

The benefits of those two factors should be useful independent of each other. Making them reliant on one another wouldn't help. In general the goal could be accomplished by one of several ways to make AC valuable even if the monster can hit on a 2.

(If it were a good idea to give CE+Shield another +5 AC, then may as well just add +5 AC to all shields instead)

They would stay independant, like PA and THF. If your to-hit is too low, it would still be better to not put CE, if you need more dps, it would still be better to use PA. Not puting it directly on shield makes it a choice, based on context.

DethTrip
03-31-2011, 10:10 AM
/signed

Musouka
03-31-2011, 01:32 PM
/signed

at least with large or tower shields. Dunno if it is plausible for bucklers and light shields.

Cyr
03-31-2011, 03:16 PM
An interesting suggestion, but /not signed

CE already is a good feat for AC builds and it does not need any boosts to make it competitive.

Also, there already is a reason for people to use a shield now outside of shield blocking with the new mod with two really neat reworks of old feats.

PopeJual
03-31-2011, 03:20 PM
CE already is a good feat for AC builds and it does not need any boosts to make it competitive.

Also, there already is a reason for people to use a shield now outside of shield blocking with the new mod with two really neat reworks of old feats.

CE is already a good feat for AC builds, but shields are not a good choice in general. The boost isn't a buff for CE so much as it is a buff for shields.

I'm unimpressed with the new bonuses to shields in U9 - much like most people were unimpressed with the bonuses to Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes.

Feithlin
03-31-2011, 03:34 PM
An interesting suggestion, but /not signed

CE already is a good feat for AC builds and it does not need any boosts to make it competitive.

Also, there already is a reason for people to use a shield now outside of shield blocking with the new mod with two really neat reworks of old feats.

Most very high AC builds use CE, but not shields, because they use monk splashes, which give more wielding a shield: as much AC from wis bonus while keeping full TWF damage.

Cyr
03-31-2011, 03:50 PM
I'm unimpressed with the new bonuses to shields in U9 - much like most people were unimpressed with the bonuses to Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes.

Fair enough. Everyone has their own take on changes as they are implemented.

Guess we will see how this pans out when it goes live.

KillEveryone
03-31-2011, 04:05 PM
/signed

I'd like to throw in a twist though.

Have it scale a bit depending upon what type of shield you have giving the best bonus to tower shields.

I realize that if you are going for AC, one would go for that particular shield but I can see people using a buckler just for that double bonus and not being hindered where a tower shield does come with some kind of penalty.

Feithlin
04-01-2011, 12:34 PM
/signed

I'd like to throw in a twist though.

Have it scale a bit depending upon what type of shield you have giving the best bonus to tower shields.

I realize that if you are going for AC, one would go for that particular shield but I can see people using a buckler just for that double bonus and not being hindered where a tower shield does come with some kind of penalty.

It could be +2 AC for light shield, +3 AC for large shield and +5 AC for tower shields for example. That would make sense from a descriptive point of view. However, from a game point of view, using a buckler or a tower shield is very similar in that it cuts drastically your dps. Both considerations seem fine.

grodon9999
08-25-2011, 03:49 PM
A timely bump! Since Stalwart are getting a boost this would be a good time to implement. Stalwarts used to be able to get that extra 5 AC while blocking but that can't be done anymore. This would make up for this.

Auran82
08-25-2011, 11:32 PM
It would be nice if there was an enhancement line for CE like power attack.

Give it to Fighters, Paladins (and in part to the Half elf dill) and an additional line to dwarves maybe (like Horcs and WF get the PA line)

It would be nice to see something similar for dodge (like I believe there was way way way back in the old enhancement system, maybe only in beta?) maybe 2 tiers, 2/4 ap, actually halflings could probably get a dodge line as well.

toughguyjoe
08-25-2011, 11:52 PM
I was thinking that possibly one of the defender type PRE lines could have included CE as a pre-req,(Or on a list of potential Pre-reqs...if its already there, Forgive me..I don't have one of those toons)

At any rate then, you could give them bonuses for using them together.

I think the best idea given in this thread so far though, was a CE enhancement line, like power attack has.

Niab
08-27-2011, 01:08 PM
What about a benefit for CE S/B that mitigates a % of nearby allies physical damage?

8% / 12% etc

Zerkul
08-27-2011, 01:22 PM
It's not a bad idea, but why don't give Fighter the possibility to get enhancements to improve CE instead of doubling the bonus? Much like Barbarians have Power attack line of enhancement to improve it: just a suggestion.

EDIT: ops someone alredy suggested it. Anyway you know there was once a CE enhancement back at level cap 10.