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View Full Version : Paladin Interesting results for common weapons through Barrage



sephiroth1084
03-29-2011, 01:36 AM
On a pure paladin DoS, ignoring smite, capstone and Divine Sacrifice mostly due to how hard the are to calculate...
36 Str (+13)
Damage value is set at 44 base with the Strength bonus and Power Attack figured in just from glancing at my character sheet (I've seen my bonus damage get up into the 60s with a bard around and in DPS mode, but 44-49 is where I tend to be in AC gear I think). Assumed to be in defender stance, meaning no Recklessness, Rage, Madstone, etc...

Other factors:
Bloodstone [Edit] OH! And I'm an idiot (this is where my lack of experience in doing this stuff comes in)! I forgot to NOT include the Bloodstone when doing the damage calcs for the 2-handers when in AC mode, since they rely on the Epic Gem of Many Facets + Epic Siren's Charm for +4 Insight AC, so the values for the 2-handers are higher than they should. Will come back later to edit.
10% doublestrike from Zeal
+6% doublestrike for the 1-handed weapons from Epic Swashbuckler
Lightning Strike plugged in as 550 damage w/ 2% proc rate
2-handed weapons are getting +11 more damage (half of 13 is 6, and double PA)


REGULAR SoS w/ PA: 103.05
Lit II scimitar (Holy, Shocking Burst, Blast) w/ PA: 102.63
Epic Brigand's Cutlass w/ PA: 98.66
SoS w/ PA vs. DR 15: 97.68
Epic Antique Greataxe (unslotted) w/ PA: 95.4
Lit II scimitar w/ CE: 95.38
Lit II scimitar w/ PA vs. 50% Fort: 92.1
Epic Brigand's Cutlass w/ CE: 91.41
SoS w/ PA vs. 50% Fort: 89.6
SoS w/ CE: 87.55
Epic Brigand's Cutlass w/ PA vs. 50% Fort: 87.52
Epic Antique w/ PA vs. 50% Fort: 86.71
Lit II scimitar w/ PA vs. DR 15: 86.1
Min II scimitar (Holy, Acid Burst, +4 Insight) w/ PA: 86.07
Lit II scimitar w/ CE vs. 50% Fort: 85.72
Epic Antique w/ CE: 82.75
SoS w/ CE vs. 50% Fort: 82.72
Epic Brigand's Cutlass w/ CE vs. 50% Fort: 81.14
Epic Antique w/ CE vs. 50% Fort: 80.93
Min II scimitar w/ CE: 78.82

What all this means, is that, with the extra doublestrike from the Swashbuckler, assuming it works, S&B Cutlass and Lit II scimitar are ahead of the THF Epic Antique Greataxe (no THF feats so the glancing blows damage doesn't amount to much) all the time in this damage range.

The regular SoS is slightly ahead of the Lit II. With Combat Expertise on, the Lit II is almost the same damage as the Epic Antique with Power Attack, and both scimitars are ahead of both two-handers with CE on.

The Min II scimitar is behind everything but the Epic Antique w/ PA vs. 50% fortification, and I didn't bother calculating its values versus fortified targets since it would just below everything else on the list.

This all assumes that the SoS and Lit II are bypassing DR. I didn't include the values for the Lit II and SoS vs. 15 DR and fortification because they are also below the Min II w/ CE.

sephiroth1084
03-29-2011, 01:41 AM
SoS w/ 80 base damage: 140.25
Lit II falchion w/ 80 base damage: 136.6
ESoS w/ 85 base damage: 164.28

QuantumFX
03-29-2011, 01:57 AM
Have you tried an Epic Cutthroat’s Smallblade yet?

sephiroth1084
03-29-2011, 02:06 AM
Have you tried an Epic Cutthroat’s Smallblade yet?
I have it on my rogue. Hadn't thought about moving it to the paladin since he's slashing specced, and didn't think to run numbers on it, partly because I TR'ed my rogue, and partly because I'm not familiar with the numbers for Corrosive Salt.

But be my guest. :)

QuantumFX
03-29-2011, 02:27 AM
But be my guest. :)

The idea behind my post is to get *someone else* to run the numbers. :D

sephiroth1084
03-29-2011, 04:00 AM
The idea behind my post is to get *someone else* to run the numbers. :D
You failed.

To the Barrage mines with you! GO!

sephiroth1084
03-29-2011, 04:52 AM
Lit II Falchion with 65 base damage (assumes the character focused a little more on Str and Cha for damage and is wearing DPS gear) vs. 15 DR and 50% Fort: 100.1

Min II Greatsword with same numbers (Fort, not DR) is 95.8.
Min II Falchion is 96.42.
Epic Antique at these numbers is 95.95.

Glancing blows, assuming the full THF chain, probably pushes these up by around 10 damage or so. Not sure how to calculate in the glancing blows frequency, since I'm not sure that they got changed to being a % proc. For one, glancing blows appear to trigger on your first swing in the chain 100% of the time even with no feats and I was noticing rather frequent triggers on my 3rd attack, again, with no feats. Hard to tell at that point on the training dummy just by eyeballing as the damage numbers start to run over each other even when trying to space attacks out a bit.

Kinerd
03-29-2011, 03:42 PM
Glancing blows are 100% on first and fourth animation, and if you have GTHF 100% on the third animation. You can treat them as a 75% process chance in calculations, though, so long as you aren't worried about your standard deviation or anything. Another fun thing is that KoTC damage (unlike every other magical effect except FB Viciouses) occurs on 100% of glancing blows.
10% doublestrike from Zeal
+6% doublestrike for the 1-handed weapons from Epic SwashbucklerYou should test this! It'll be fun! :D

sephiroth1084
03-29-2011, 04:31 PM
Glancing blows are 100% on first and fourth animation, and if you have GTHF 100% on the third animation. You can treat them as a 75% process chance in calculations, though, so long as you aren't worried about your standard deviation or anything. Another fun thing is that KoTC damage (unlike every other magical effect except FB Viciouses) occurs on 100% of glancing blows.

Hadn't the devs been talking about glancing blows getting changed to a % proc the way TWF was when the rewrote the coding for the THF feats and such? I remember being confused about the feats now being involved in two percentage calculations, but maybe I just misread them.

Does the capstone apply to 100% of glancing blows? I didn't think to check, and it wouldn't be applying vs. the training dummy anyway.


[quote]You should test this! It'll be fun! :DPlugging numbers into a calculator and sitting and watching 100s of swings are two very different tasks (and skillsets even!). Plus, I have no vid-cap software, or even room enough on my HD for what they require probably.

One day, if I'm really bored, maybe, but I haven't got the sort of verve for this as you, Quantum, and a few other prolific experimenters do.

sephiroth1084
03-29-2011, 04:52 PM
Well, if I was using 65 base damage for the more DPS-focused character, that would be 65+7 (avg damage of the SoS base) for 72. With no THF feats that's 72*0.2 (20% of base for no feats)*0.5 (occurring on 2 of 4 attacks in a cycle) or 7.2 extra damage per swing. With the 3 THF feats that would be 72*0.5*0.75 for 27 extra damage per swing.

Going back to the 44 base (S&B) model--my character--I'd have 55 damage base with a 2-hander... with no feats I'm getting 6.2 damage per swing using the SoS w/ PA vs. no fort or DR, and 0 damage vs. basically any DR beyond /good. With one THF feat I'd get 9.3. Not enough of a jump for me to pick that up probably, but...I can get about 9 more damage with gear swaps for 64 base (71 with the weapon figured in), or 10.65 with THF.

If I can ever get the damn ESoS (around 90 completions without a shard, and still need the scroll as well), I'd have 71 + 10.5 (avg of the additional 3d6 base weapon damage) +5 (moving from +5 enhancement to +10) or 91.5 (HOLY ****!) for 9.15 glancing blows with no feats, or 13.75 with just THF. Given that this would bypass more relevant DR (read: devil bosses), I think I'll pick up THF whenever I acquire the ESoS, but likely not before, unless...

Epic Antique Greataxe in AC mode w/ PA up is about 3 points behind the Cutlass before figuring in glancing blows. Its base damage would be 56+13 from weapon for 6.9 damage on glancing blows. It just edges out the Cutlass, though stuff like Exalted Smite and Divine Sacrifice probably put the Cutlass back on top--no clue how to calculate those into my attacks, and in the case of the smites, that damage is a big spike that then needs to get divided out over a minute's worth of attacks before a new smite refreshes likely diluting the overall impact. For situations where hate is my goal, the extra 20% on the Cutlass beats the extra damage that the EAG gets from glancing blows.

With THF, it would be 10.35 damage per swing, which is a fair jump, putting it just ahead of the Lit II scimitar, but again, the crit-profile effects on ES and DS probably keep them even, if not pushing the scimitar slightly ahead.


OH! And I'm an idiot (this is where my lack of experience in doing this stuff comes in)! I forgot to NOT include the Bloodstone when doing the damage calcs for the 2-handers when in AC mode, since they rely on the Epic Gem of Many Facets + Epic Siren's Charm for +4 Insight AC. I think that says about all that needs saying.

Kinerd
03-30-2011, 04:40 PM
Hadn't the devs been talking about glancing blows getting changed to a % proc the way TWF was when the rewrote the coding for the THF feats and such? I remember being confused about the feats now being involved in two percentage calculations, but maybe I just misread them.They might have mentioned it, I can't manage to keep up with all the posts during big changes like update 5 and the spell changes this time around. In game though it's reliably per-animation.
Does the capstone apply to 100% of glancing blows? I didn't think to check, and it wouldn't be applying vs. the training dummy anyway.I don't think so, I think the two PrEs are the only ones that have this quasi-bug/quasi-feature.
Plugging numbers into a calculator and sitting and watching 100s of swings are two very different tasks (and skillsets even!). Plus, I have no vid-cap software, or even room enough on my HD for what they require probably.

One day, if I'm really bored, maybe, but I haven't got the sort of verve for this as you, Quantum, and a few other prolific experimenters do.Thanks!, but I don't video either, it's all pencil and paper for me. The great thing about testing that way is you don't need to do it all at once. Got two minutes waiting for a group to fill? Nab a few swings on the training dummy! All you need to control is Zeal and the shield and you're fine. I don't feel like I'm really playing DnD unless I've got a million scraps of paper floating around with bizarre scratches on them.