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View Full Version : An addition to the change to stunned/held monsters



Zilta
03-23-2011, 02:45 PM
As a wind stance stunmonk I must say that the lack of crits on stunned monsters is worrying to me not because of any loss in dps, but because of the possible loss of ki generation potential. While this can be alleviated by items such as oremi's I would suggest that stunned or held monsters being hit count as critical hits soley for the purposes of ki generation. This would allow wind monks to continue to build ki fast and consistantly on stunned/held monsters while still keeping all the other changes to stunned/held.

On an additional note which may not be as popular as the idea above, I believe that on elite and epic difficulties players should have the same bonus damage applied to them as mobs do and that it should be 30% on hard and 25% on normal and 10% on casual. The current setup which caps the bonus damage to players at 25% just seems to weak and easy to me.

Absolute-Omniscience
03-23-2011, 02:48 PM
Loss in DPS? :confused:
You do realize that monks (or anyone with *2 or *3 crit) will actually kill things faster on epic after U9, than now.

B0ltdrag0n
03-23-2011, 03:02 PM
People also seem to be neglecting that monsters will lose their dex to ac and suffer an additional -4 penalty per eladrin.

Its not all DOOOOOM!

ViolentEnd
03-23-2011, 03:05 PM
People also seem to be neglecting that monsters will lose their dex to ac and suffer an additional -4 penalty per eladrin.

Its not all DOOOOOM!

They didn't already?

TheDearLeader
03-23-2011, 03:07 PM
They didn't already?

We don't know if they did - they were always auto-hit, auto-crit.

AC is an afterthought when rolls of 2-20 connect either way.

orakio
03-23-2011, 03:12 PM
Loss in DPS? :confused:
You do realize that monks (or anyone with *2 or *3 crit) will actually kill things faster on epic after U9, than now.

I didn't realize that, how is it that a 50% damage increase is better than auto crit with a 100% or 200% damage increase modifier? Especially since monks won't generate ki as quickly and are therefore not able to use all of their key strikes as rapidly as possible?

Now if by that you meant that our dps will be proportionately better compared to the *4 and *5 multiplier or better builds then yes that is a correct statement, but overall "helpless" targets should be taking less damage from any build than they did prior to the change.

Absolute-Omniscience
03-23-2011, 03:14 PM
I didn't realize that, how is it that a 50% damage increase is better than auto crit with a 100% or 200% damage increase modifier? Especially since monks won't generate ki as quickly and are therefore not able to use all of their key strikes as rapidly as possible?

Since they are also halving the HP of epic mobs.

TheDearLeader
03-23-2011, 03:18 PM
Since they are also halving the HP of epic mobs.

I'd say its still a loss of DPS, but that the loss of DPS has been partially compensated for.

After all, 150% =/= 200%, especially when calling it a simple 200% isn't fair when fully geared out monks are probably rocking Shocking Burst/Holy Burst/Force Burst/Force Critical, and will be seeing less in burst-based damage.

I don't play a monk, though, so that's just me extrapolating on the concept in general based on other DPS classes.

sephiroth1084
03-23-2011, 03:34 PM
Well, it's also 50% more damage from all of your damage that didn't previously get multiplied. Your base strike damage, Holy, non-burst portion of rings, ToD, SA damage, etc...

I think it may be possible for monks to be getting more damage out of this than they had vs. auto-crit stuff.

Still, the issue with ki is worrisome. I'd hope that their abilities get changed to read "on-crit or against a helpless target".

Rodasch
03-23-2011, 05:55 PM
I didn't realize that, how is it that a 50% damage increase is better than auto crit with a 100% or 200% damage increase modifier? Especially since monks won't generate ki as quickly and are therefore not able to use all of their key strikes as rapidly as possible?

Now if by that you meant that our dps will be proportionately better compared to the *4 and *5 multiplier or better builds then yes that is a correct statement, but overall "helpless" targets should be taking less damage from any build than they did prior to the change.

Because all your burst and maiming and holy and force and kitchen sink effects on every punch are also multiplied...all of them. This is a net increase in damage unless all you ran prior were "burst" effects.

Memnir
03-23-2011, 06:00 PM
Crane Stance will need to be changed, I think.

Instead of generating Ki on a critical hit - I think it should be generating Ki on critical hits or helpless opponents.



Not saying it will be changed, mind you, just that I think it should be.

Zilta
03-25-2011, 02:54 PM
Actually Memnir I think that your suggestion is better than mine. Instead of all helpless/stunned mobs granting bonus ki as if it were a critical hit only crane stance would allow that.

And again I still think we should have the same damage bonus to us as mobs on epic and elite