View Full Version : WIZ 18/ Rog 2? Archmage? Pale master?

03-22-2011, 05:50 AM
Hello, I'm new to the D&D scene and multi-classing looks slightly confusing to me. If someone could help me out with a starter build I would really appreciate it.

I'm currently using this as a guide: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=298187 . Is it good? Should I change anything? I can't be WF or Elf, so a human build would be best I guess?

What are archmage and pale master builds? Is one better than the other? Are there other builds worthwhile or those are the best?

Is a WIZ18/Rog2 multi class a good combo as opposed to pure mage? Do you lose anything because of that?

Any help would be appreciated please.

Thank you very much!

03-22-2011, 06:04 AM
My thoughts: If you're not WF and you're wiz, pick PM for healz

You don't lose much from 2 wiz: Capstone and 2 lvl 9 spell slots are the bgigest ones, i guess. You get SA, able to disable traps, spot doors, and get the evasion.

03-22-2011, 06:11 AM
I'm assuming you mean you cant go drow? its only 400 favour to unlock though which doesnt take all that long really & if you post an lfm saying you're favour running for it you'll likely get some highbies willing to help out by running you through on elite.

Regular elf could be good for the forthcoming boost to spell penetration in u9, and human is always a reliable option for the extra feat. As to whether to go archmage or pale master.. currently pale master would have the edge in survivability for a fleshy thanks to the ability to self-heal (UMD for wands & scrolls though will counterbalance that somewhat) & that likely wont change even with all the other stuff coming in u9 - an alternative would be halfling with the dragonmarks but that'll hit you in your other feat availability so probably isnt the best bet.

The build itself is a very effective one even for people new to multiclassing - though it wont have the saves of a proper rogue, evasion will still be functional against a lot of them & many AoEs which will make for a massive survivability boost. You'll also potentially have search & disable skills that are actually better than most rogues (except mechanics with a real focus in it) since they're based off INT which as a caster you'll want to max out.

03-22-2011, 06:25 AM
With the "Spell Pass Preview - Chaaannggeee! " in the pipline its hard to give advice at the moment.
One thing is for sure: The question is not "wich pre is better?" the question is "how do you want to play?".
You cant be elf? I am sure you can, its free. And you can be drow to, if that was what you meant. Getting 400 favor for drow will happen very fast. Elf will get a boost to spell penetration and more spellpoints, maybe they are the new wizard race.

Do you want to:
- Nuke with elemantal spells like fireball (archmage evocations, gets the ability to spam cheap magic missiles all over the place)
- Cast instand death spells (pale master, they can heal themselfs in undead form, but then they aren't affected by the divine heals of the cleric until undead form is ended)
- Control the monsters (archmage enchantment, way to go for end game content at the moment)

The build you posted lacks the enhancement (vanilla) and I would take other feats, depending on what prestige you want to play. Wouldn't take points into wisdom, but thats just my opinion. With the hight UMD from the rogue part you don't need to take pale master to selfheal, you could use wands and scrolls.

03-22-2011, 04:07 PM
My thoughts: If you're not WF and you're wiz, pick PM for healz

You don't lose much from 2 wiz: Capstone and 2 lvl 9 spell slots are the bgigest ones, i guess. You get SA, able to disable traps, spot doors, and get the evasion.

Though you should really play whatever fits you want to do, imho these benefits are not worth multiclassing rogue. Off the top of my head, at level 20, you have lost 2 points to spell pen, a bonus feat, spell slots, and your capstone, which translates to 2 dc points and a slightly larger mana pool. The gains are minimal: d6 SA (basically useless), trap skills which, though very useful, can be covered by any rogue, spot doors (made useless by a level one spell), and evasion, which is only going to be useful if you take some dex, insightful reflexes, or something of that nature. It is also important to note that umd is a rogue class skill, another (and I believe one of the stronger) potential reasons to multiclass.

That being said, if you did want to go rogue, I might suggest an evocation archmage. Pale master death effects and especially spells in the enchantment school often must bypass spell resistance and/or saves to be effective. Spells in the evocations school are less likely to require saves and sr. In addition, the spell focus feats required for archmage will bring the dcs on those spells which do have saves closer to par. Your self healing will be less than that of a pale master of warforged, but still adequate.

Finally, take the time to get enough favor to unlock drow (it's only 400). The int boost is nice for obvious reasons, the cha is nice for umd, and the dex can't hurt. If not, maybe go human so you have the slot for insightful reflexes.

Note: I have never played a wizard beyond level 10 so be sure take all my thoughts with a grain of salt.

03-22-2011, 06:37 PM
This seems so complicated I've never seen a game have this many diversifying choices available. This is definitely a lot to digest. Thanks for elaborating and giving me your two cents it helped me a lot.

On another note I've never posted on the forums of a new game I'm playing and have such a friendly and helpful community. I'm liking this place more and more. :D

Thanks so much, you guys rock.

03-22-2011, 07:27 PM
My explanation was somewhat technical, so I'll list the most significant pro's and con's of taking the two rogue levels with some explanations:

Ability to disable traps (self-explanatory)

Use Magic Device as a class skill (this skill, if you don't know, allows you to use healing scrolls and wands normally reserved for divine classes)

Evasion (When you make a successful Reflex save to avoid damage, you suffer no damage instead of half damage. This is one of the most powerful abilities in the game. However, it has no effect unless you make a successful reflex save. To have a decent reflex save, you most likely must either increase your dexterity, the ability on which your reflex save is based, which provides very minimal benefit in other areas, or take the feat insightful reflexes, which makes reflex saves based on intelligence, something a wizard such as yourself should have in abundance.)

-2 spell penetration (high level monsters have an ability called spell resistance, which requires you to make a caster level check based on caster level to get a spell to affect them)

No Bonus Feat (every 5 levels, a wizard gains a bonus spell-related feat. You don't get the one at level 20 a full caster would get.)

No Capstone (every class has a special enhancement they can take at level 20. The wizard one gives +2 int and +1 to all save dcs. A dc is the target your enemy must meet or exceed on their save for the spell to have a reduced or no effect.)

Lower Max Mana (the loss of int and the loss of levels in wizard contribute to this.)

I don't feel qualified to judge the merits of various prestiges, hopefully someone else can.

Have fun in DDO!

03-22-2011, 07:54 PM
I've played my wiz as a 18/2 through his first life and than capped him as a pure 20 first TR wizard so I have some limited experience in both builds.

For me it turned out that the capstone and extra feat are much more valuable since it added a LOT to the character playability at endgame and epics. Additionally I found out that by playing pure I got my WoF 1 level earlier and my Wail of Banshee 2 levels earlier than on a splash build so it meant more efficient levelling.

Though 18/2 is a very nice utility build and it's really a personal choice on what play style you prefer.

03-22-2011, 07:55 PM
On a first life wiz/rog I would go Human for the extra feat, almost equal INT to Drow depending on gear, and more HP. When you still have to pick up the spell pen feats you want that extra feat!

PM works slightly more easily into wiz/rog than AM due to feats, but AM can be done also, it's just not so much of a beginner build at that point.